The Football Thread - Season 2013/2014

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dinners

dinners

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Afgha said:
I'd have that apart from the Ferdinand comment. One of the best central defenders in the world over the years so I don't see how he's improved. He's not had as many injuries this year so that's helped him a lot.
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The Ferdinand thing was just because he had a good season this year compared to previous.

So - lots in the media today about chnages to (English) Champions League Qualification.

Europa winners get into the CL - that can be only be a good thing.

Following on from that was lots of suggestions......

Top 3 in PL get CL plus FA Cup Winners instead of 4th

Top 3 in PL get CL then play off between 4th and FA Cup winners.

'Winners' only - PL, FA Cup, league Cup etc

Lots of ideas.....
 
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dinners said:
The Ferdinand thing was just because he had a good season this year compared to previous.

So - lots in the media today about chnages to (English) Champions League Quelification.

Europa winners get into the CL - that can be only be a good thing.

Following on from that was lots of suggestions......

Top 3 in PL get CL plus FA Cup Winners instead of 4th

Top 3 in PL get CL then play off between 4th and FA Cup winners.

'Winners' only - PL, FA Cup, league Cup etc

Lots of ideas.....
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Doubt the FA CUP or League Cup will get a place, too much risk of 'smaller teams' getting in. CL is all about the money, sponsors all about the big teams being in etc etc. I only see the Europa League idea as an idea to save that competition that is virtually ruined and to give big teams that missed out on CL an opportunity to make their way back in.
 
What happens if, like this year, the team qualifies in top 4 and also wins the CL as Chelsea have done? Would 5th become CL and 6th Europa?

I like the idea though. Something needs to be done to make Europa more than a gimmick trophy.
 
akr said:
Doubt the FA CUP or League Cup will get a place, too much risk of 'smaller teams' getting in. CL is all about the money, sponsors all about the big teams being in etc etc. I only see the Europa League idea as an idea to save that competition that is virtually ruined and to give big teams that missed out on CL an opportunity to make their way back in.
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But Champions League places in the offing for League and FA Cup winners could mean teams taking those competitions a bit more seriously. :shrug:

Saying that, I think the FA Cup Winners getting into the Champions League plus the first three in the League would give that competition a boost. It is not as if 1 or 2 of the normal top 5-6 teams are not normally in the final nearly every year anyway. :shrug:

Winners of the League Cup should still go into the Europa League. And teams who get kicked out of the Champions League half way through should not go into the Europa League. :shake: That particularly irritates me. This would leave more places for teams to qualify through League placings. Or eve slim the competition down. :shrug:


I still think that just Champions (League Winners) should only be in the 'Champions League'. That time has well gone though sadly. :(
 
Europa League winners getting a CL spot is all about teams taking that competition seriously.

redhed17 said:
But Champions League places in the offing for League and FA Cup winners could mean teams taking those competitions a bit more seriously. :shrug:
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Exactly. Same as the Europa placing.

redhed17 said:
Saying that, I think the FA Cup Winners getting into the Champions League plus the first three in the League would give that competition a boost. It is not as if 1 or 2 of the normal top 5-6 teams are not normally in the final nearly every year anyway. :shrug:
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Not only give the FA cup a boost but also the PL. Arsenal's celebrations at the final whilstle for finishing 4th kind of summed it up. Top 3 only would really spice it up as the top 4 is so predictable.

redhed17 said:
I still think that just Champions (League Winners) should only be in the 'Champions League'. That time has well gone though sadly. :(
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People harp on about the old days and how the Champions League should just be for league winners only. I think 'league winners only' was a just a phase - it was different before that.

I know we can do little about other countries but I think it should be open to teams that actually win something here.

Imagine - PL winners, FA Cup winners, League Cup winners and 2nd in the PL. The wealth would get distributed with different teams every year, the cups would get so much more competitive and we'd loose that boring 'top 4' nonsense. Arsenal celebrating 4th at the final whilstle summed it up for me.
 
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redhed17 said:
But Champions League places in the offing for League and FA Cup winners could mean teams taking those competitions a bit more seriously. :shrug:

Saying that, I think the FA Cup Winners getting into the Champions League plus the first three in the League would give that competition a boost. It is not as if 1 or 2 of the normal top 5-6 teams are not normally in the final nearly every year anyway. :shrug:
(
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There is more of a guarentee of the top teams / richest teams getting in via the league thn the cups which are more unpredictable.

Would have been amusing if they had it in place this year so that next year a relagated team would have been playing in the champions league.
 
dinners said:
Europa League winners getting a CL spot is all about teams taking that competition seriously.

Exactly. Same as the Europa placing.

Not only give the FA cup a boost but also the PL. Arsenal's celebrations at the final whilstle for finishing 4th kind of summed it up. Top 3 only would really spice it up as the top 4 is so predictable.

People harp on about the old days and how the Champions League should just be for league winners only. I think 'league winners only' was a just a phase - it was different before that.

I know we can do little about other countries but I think it should be open to teams that actually win something here.

Imagine - PL winners, FA Cup winners, League Cup winners and 2nd in the PL. The wealth would get distributed with different teams every year, the cups would get so much more competitive and we'd loose that boring 'top 4' nonsense. Arsenal celebrating 4th at the final whilstle summed it up for me.
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I agree with everything you have written here Phil, but the reasons why you state it would be a good idea in your last paragraph are precisely the reasons I don't believe it will happen.

Does anyone know who decides the allication, is it UEFA ot The F.A?
 
I'm not sure

I know the number of placings are an 'invitation' to the CL but I'm not sure how much is down to each county to decide how those placings are filled.
 
England have tailed off a bit in the last few years in Uefa's coefficient rankings but we're a long way off loosing 4 places as the rules stand.

To Maintain that number requires having our best teams taking part in the CL which means the top sides in the premier league rather than FA cup, League cup and Europa Leage winners.

Long term, I would rather see a boost to our FA cup and League cup than worry about the current coefficient of a tournament that has a habit of reinventing itself every few years anyway.
 
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dinners said:
England have tailed off a bit in the last few years in Uefa's coefficient rankings but we're a long way off loosing 4 places as the rules stand.

To Maintain that number requires having our best teams taking part in the CL which means the top sides in the premier league rather than FA cup, League cup and Europa Leage winners.

Long term, I would rather see a boost to our FA cup and League cup than worry about the current coefficient of a tournament that has a habit of reinventing itself every few years anyway.
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I agree it would be a shot in the arm for the cup competitions,however i doubt we will see the likes of Wimbledon or Wigan win it again with a champs league place at stake
 
Can't say I'm that thrilled by the Champions league final so far.

Oh Bayern just scored.

The German fans make the most boring sounds too.
 
I just knew Robben would get the winner arghhhh
 
I nodded off

Please let's scrap the whole top four thing LOL
 
Pretty disappointing final really. Saw some amazing pictures of black and yellow all over London and the atmosphere pre-match sounded incredible but the game was a bit of a flop.

I thought Dante should have seen a second yellow for the foul that led to a penalty. I'm not sure how a kick in the stomach on a player who has flicked the ball beyond you is anything other than a second yellow. Ribery was also up to a lot of tricks that really makes me dislike him and there've been some very unsporting pictures of the way Bayern players were celebrating by gloating in the face of Dortmund players.

I just find it impossible to like Bayern. I have great respect for how good they are as a team, I just find it impossible to like them.
 
They're a very good team.

Ribery is quality but he's so annoying.
 
I forgot the final was on. :bonk: Should still be on a Wednesday. ;)

So started watching it, and also started recorded the programme on ITV+1 just in case I missed something good. After watching the rest of it, I deleted what I recorded. I don't think I missed much. :shake: :lol:

I didn't see much quality. So a normal final then. ;) :lol: Robben took his goal well. He was the only one awake in the area.

Pity Lewandowski 'goal' didn't count.

I thought the German fans gave a good atmosphere.

Didn't watch anything after the final whistle. :shrug:
 
I don't agree in the Europa League or FA Cup winners getting a Champions League place. The Champions League should be for the teams who have consistently performed in their domestic leagues over the season. You can win cups with a bit of luck or a favourable draw.

The champions league isn't there to give other competitions a boost. The FA Cup has been on a downward slide for a long time now. Mainly due to the finances the Premier League brought with it but the FA haven't helped the situation.

As for the Champions League final, it could have been better but I still thought it was a good game. The German game has got so much going for it at the moment .
 
I see Luis Suarez has now come in for some criticism from none other than Robert Mugabe :lol:
 
Palace 1:0 Watford with little time remaining.

Working today but just managed to catch the final stages.....
 
Well done Olli, glad you are getting another shot at The Premier League.
 
EAGLES!

What a day. WHAT. A. DAY!

Was welling up big time after the goal when the fans starting singing (not that they weren't for the whole match!).

Was pitch side, but part of me really wished I had just been there as a spectator.

I love my rubbish little underdog of a club.
 
It'll be interesting to see whether Zaha comes to United now or whether he will get another season on Loan at Palace ?
 
dinners said:
It'll be interesting to see whether Zaha comes to United now or whether he will get another season on Loan at Palace ?
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I think it was good for him to stay at Palace for the rest of the season, but he should go to Utd. It's time for change there, and he needs to be in at the start of it.

Look like Benitez has gone to Napoli. Good luck to him. :thumbs: Hopefully he gets a warmer welcome than he got at Chel$ki. ;) I think if he does as well as he did at Chel$ki, their fans will be very happy. :)

But then you never know, fans a fickle. ;) :lol:


I see Arsenal have been linked with the 'new Nasri', Clement Grenier. :eek: Is that a good thing? :shrug: The new Zidane, Henry maybe, not the new Nasri. :lol: Liverpool have been linked too. :thinking: :lol:

Liverpool are being linked with everyone though. The fact that we don't have much money to spend doesn't stop the speculation. :bang:


They seem to be lining up for Suarez too. Hopefully Liverpool don't get tempted by the £££s. :shake:
 
redhed17 said:
Liverpool are being linked with everyone though. The fact that we don't have much money to spend doesn't stop the speculation. :bang:
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Are they actually tightening their belts then ?

Every year we hear they've no money but they continue to be one of the biggest spenders.

Spurs in for David Villa - not quite the player he was following his lay off but if he gets back to form he could be a shrewd investment if his goals mean the difference between CL footy or not.

Fabregas linked with United according to some. Not sure I'm in favour of that one.

With the form of our wide / supporting forward players I hope Zaha does come to United ready for next season. Valencia has been off the boil for a whole season even if he does a good job filling in at right back, Young has struggled and who knows with Nani.
 
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dinners said:
Are they actually tightening their belts then ?

Every year we hear they've no money but they continue to be one of the biggest spenders.
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maybe 4th or 5th in the last 3 years

certainly less than city, chelski and you guys for sure for net spend

Who knows who will come our way. Hopefully not kolo toure though
 
redhed17 said:
Liverpool are being linked with everyone though. The fact that we don't have much money to spend doesn't stop the speculation. :bang:
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Arsenal, too.

The problem with twitter rumours in particular is that people seem completely incapable of challenging what they read. Yesterday, for example, a rumour resurfaced that Arshavin's agent had secured him a £400k p/w deal in Abu Dhabi. The majority of people failed to notice the 'source' was an article dated 1st of April.

I can't really pass comment on Grenier. He's a name I know but not a player I've watched. Interesting to note that he's just taken Nasri's place in the international side though :lol:

He did score a cracking freekick this weekend. That's the extent of my knowledge!
 
Haven't the Liverpool owners come out and said there is a specific amount of money available for transfers this year. I'm thinking £50 million for some reason.

Don't know if this money is on top of anything they can bring in as well. 15 million already in for Carroll. Suarez might being a bit of cash in as well.:p
 
joescrivens said:
maybe 4th or 5th in the last 3 years

certainly less than city, chelski and you guys for sure for net spend
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I think NASA are probably less than City and Chelsea :D

Not sure about last 3 or 4 years but going by the published periods - Liverpool have a greater Gross spend and a greater Nett Spend for the last 5 years and also the last 10 years.

5 Years Liverpool Nett £68,600,000
5 Years United Nett £57,050,000

10 Years Liverpool Nett £177,300,000
10 years United Nett £123,400,000

The same is true for since the Premier League began in 1992 however the further you go back the more it just highlights how much transfer fees have risen over that period.

All I was wondering was whether the 'we're skint' thing is for real this time ?
 
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dinners said:
I think NASA are probably less than City and Chelsea :D

Not sure about last 3 or 4 years but going by the published periods - Liverpool have a greater Gross spend and a greater Nett Spend than United for the last 5 years and also the last 10 years. The same is true for since the Premier League began in 1992 however the further you go back the more it just highlights how much transfer fees have risen over that period.
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Just checked the last 3 or 4 years - 09/10 - 10/11 - 11/12 - 12/13

Last 1 year (Nett)
Liverpool £40.1m
United £36.1m

Last 2 years (Nett)
Liverpool £76.2m
United £74m

Last 3 years (Nett)
United £87m
Liverpool £72m

Last 4 years (Nett)
Liverpool £63m
United £22m
 
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dinners said:
Just checked the last 3 or 4 years - 09/10 - 10/11 - 11/12 - 12/13

Last 1 year (Nett)
Liverpool £40.1m
United £36.1m

Last 2 years (Nett)
Liverpool £76.2m
United £74m

Last 3 years (Nett)
United £87m
Liverpool £72m

Last 4 years (Nett)
Liverpool £63m
United £22m
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I posted earlier in this thread about how it is a lot easier to spend money with a winning team and a settled manager. In the last three years Liverpool have had four managers, each wanting to buy their own players. :shrug:

You don't need to add much to a successful team with a lot of £20m - £30m players. :shrug:

Now is the crucial time for Utd, as a new manager tries to make the team his, and that will inevitably lead to more spending, especially if things are not going well. It will be interesting who has spent what in the next two years. ;)

Afgha said:
Haven't the Liverpool owners come out and said there is a specific amount of money available for transfers this year. I'm thinking £50 million for some reason.

Don't know if this money is on top of anything they can bring in as well. 15 million already in for Carroll. Suarez might being a bit of cash in as well.:p
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I don't know where the £50m came for Rodgers to spend. :shrug: I've only seen £20m, plus what can be raised from any sales. I hope you're right though. ;)

Carroll is threatening to come back and fight for his place. :eek: Obviously a ploy to try and get his fee reduced. West Ham rate him, but don't want to pay the fee they had agreed. :shrug: Rodgers obviously doesn't feel that he fits in with how he wants the team to play. :shrug: I'd take him back and call his bluff. Leave him on the bench until we need to try something different in a game, which would hopefully be not that often. ;) I find some players are more willing to move in a World Cup/European Championship year, the closer to the competition they get. ;)
 
redhed17 said:
I posted earlier in this thread about how it is a lot easier to spend money with a winning team.

You don't need to add much to a successful team with a lot of £20m - £30m players. :shrug:
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I fully understand that.

Some would take the view that with that level of expenditure over the years - you should also have a successful team.

redhed17 said:
I don't know where the £50m came for Rodgers to spend. :shrug: I've only seen £20m,
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Lucky you :thumbs:
 
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Afgha said:
I guess that's a bit skewed because of the Torres fee. Just like the 4yr United one is because of Ronaldo
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Liverpool spent the Torres fee, plus about £8m, almost straight away on Carroll and Suarez, plus another £20m+ the same season. :eek:

The year Utd sold Ronaldo for £80m, they only spent £21m, which is always going to make the books look good. :shrug:

For the same years posted by dinners, I'm getting these numbers for Nett spend here. Red in deficit, :( and Green for a profit. :thumbs: I've rounded up to the nearest 100k.

Last 1 year (Nett)
Liverpool £40.1m £40.8m
United £36.1m £36.1m

Last 2 years (Nett)
Liverpool £76.2m £35.4m
United £74m £38.2m

Last 3 years (Nett)
Liverpool £72m £-5.2m
United £87m £36.2m

Last 4 years (Nett)
Liverpool £63m £-8.7m
United £22m £-65.5m

Liverpool may spend a lot, but they have sold quite a bit too, mostly at a loss, as various managers have brought in their own players, and the next chap gets rid. :shake: Hopefully we've settled on this manager for awhile. ;)
 
redhed17 said:
I'm getting these numbers for Nett spend here.
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Same place I went.

The figures you're showing are the figures I started with before going a step further to show nett spend over a running 1, 2, 3 and 4 year period.

2012/13
2012/13 + 2011/12
2012/13 + 2011/12 + 2010/11
2012/13 + 2011/12 + 2010/11 + 2009/10

I think the above (plus the last 5 and 10 and 20 years figures) go a long way to dispel the old 'Nett Spend' myth that some Liverpool supporters seem to bring up.

The likes of the Torres and Ronaldo transfers obviously had a massive bearing on 'nett' spend as both brought a considerable amount in. It's a good point you made about selling players on at a loss as that certainly hits the 'nett' hard however the gross expenditure still confirms Liverpool to be the biggest spenders in the Premier League behind City and Chelsea regardless of the justification or reasons why.
 
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dinners said:
Same place I went.

The figures you're showing are the figures I started with before going a step further to show nett spend over a running 1, 2, 3 and 4 year period.

2012/13
2012/13 + 2011/12
2012/13 + 2011/12 + 2010/11
2012/13 + 2011/12 + 2010/11 + 2009/10


If you hadn't clarified what you had done, I don't think I would have worked it out. :shrug:

dinners said:
The likes of the Torres and Ronaldo transfers obviously had a massive bearing on 'nett' spend as both brought a considerable amount in. It's a good point you made about selling players on at a loss as that certainly hits the 'nett' hard however the gross expenditure still confirms Liverpool to be the biggest spenders in the Premier League behind City and Chelsea regardless of the justification or reasons why.
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I have no doubt Liverpool have spent a lot of money. We were one of the top 4 teams until the last few years, and financially, are still one of the richest teams in the World. :shrug: Billionaire owners aside. ;)

We have spent badly, for various reasons, as the league positions have shown, but there has been success. For all the money Spurs have spent in the last 10 years, they have only won the League Cup. Arsenal in the last 10 years have won the Premier League once, and 2x FA Cups. Yet Liverpool have won 2x League Cups, 1x FA Cup, and 1x Champions League. Yes, Utd and Chel$ki have won a lot more, and City are starting to win things, but for the money we have spent, we have had success. It may not have been the Premier League, but there are only 3-4 things to win every year, League Cup, FA Cup, Premier League and either the Europa League or Champions League (should you have qualified). Add to that the European Super Cup (which we have also won in the last 10 years) and the World Club Championship, which are only options for clubs who have won the Europa and/or Champions League, and I think Liverpool have been doing quite well for the money spent. :)
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