The Football Thread - Season 2012/2013

Status
Not open for further replies.
TriggerHappy said:
Who's a better man to take us forward, that would actually come? It's all well and good saying he's lost his way, but who's better?
Click to expand...

Was shocked by his perfomance in the pre match interviews, and think it was out of order he left the pitch without shaking the Bayern managers hand.

Cannot believe there is talk about giving him an extention on his contract!!!
 
cambsno said:
So, IMO how good is our team???
Click to expand...

I'd say about 4th or 5th best team in the Premier League - which is why I'm always slightly bemused when I hear Arsenal fans berating Wenger for being around 4th or 5th in the League table.

I've said before that Liverpool have been the biggest 'loosers' when it comes to the rise of Chelsea and Manchester City but you'd have to say that it's been very detrimental to Arsenal.
 
PMK said:
You really need to get your 'news' from other sources, not just The Sun.
Click to expand...

Why does it matter - do you really think the sun would make that up? They reported the game as 3-1, are they lying about that too?

It was from the telegraph actually.
 
Bayern looked a very, very good side last night.Don`t beat yourselves up to badly. But, I agree, Arsenal are not impressing at all this season.
 
cambsno said:
Why does it matter - do you really think the sun would make that up? They reported the game as 3-1, are they lying about that too?

It was from the telegraph actually.
Click to expand...

It was made up. Did you not see his reaction to the question about it? I've never seen him get that mad at anything before. Some petty journalist desperate for his moment in the limelight fabricating a story just to cause a storm.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21498386
 
Last edited:
PMK said:
Errr, they did make it. The Sun made it up.
Click to expand...

Hold on, are we at crossed purposes here... The Telegraph (henry winter) said that he did not shake hands... are they lying too? What actually did happen?
 
Is there a reason why the Board would not offer Wenger a new contract? I can't think of one.
 
The Greek said:
Is there a reason why the Board would not offer Wenger a new contract? I can't think of one.
Click to expand...

Ok, we all know we (along with everyone else) cannot compete with Man U, Man C and Chelsea (probably), so the top 2 spots are unlikely. BUT, if we cannot get to the semi and quarter final of cups when we play a L2 and Champiionship side, then we are unlikley to win one again next season. The team is struggling, and we have Spurs threatening, Everton possibly a risk and Liverpool improving. Top 4 is far from safe! The plaayers he has signed of late have generally been a waste of money.
 
cambsno said:
Ok, we all know we (along with everyone else) cannot compete with Man U, Man C and Chelsea (probably), so the top 2 spots are unlikely. BUT, if we cannot get to the semi and quarter final of cups when we play a L2 and Champiionship side, then we are unlikley to win one again next season. The team is struggling, and we have Spurs threatening, Everton possibly a risk and Liverpool improving. Top 4 is far from safe! The plaayers he has signed of late have generally been a waste of money.
Click to expand...

it sounds like you need a different owner not a different manager if you want things to change
 
joescrivens said:
it sounds like you need a different owner not a different manager if you want things to change
Click to expand...

Did the owners sign the players we have? Did the owners pick the side? Are the owners responsible for motivating the team? Do the owners organise defensive training?

Of course not.
 
how do you know that the team are motivated correctly by wenger - do you have a camera in the dressing room?
 
It's funny, because Jack Whilshere came out after the game and said recent performances have been on 'us', not the gaffer.

But this Anti-Wenger stance is becoming so tiresome to read. You are not a fan of Arsenal. You are a broken record.
 
joescrivens said:
how do you know that the team are motivated correctly by wenger - do you have a camera in the dressing room?
Click to expand...

Well. It's a managers job to motivate and I don't see much evidence on the pitch. Good managers over achieve or deliver results.
 
PMK said:
It's funny, because Jack Whilshere came out after the game and said recent performances have been on 'us', not the gaffer.

But this Anti-Wenger stance is becoming so tiresome to read. You are not a fan of Arsenal. You are a broken record.
Click to expand...

Since when did a player come out and say how crap the manager is? When Benitez came to Chelsea did the players say to the press he is an idiot???

I am a fan and that's why I care. I find those blindly defending him like a broken record too.
 
cambsno said:
Well. It's a managers job to motivate and I don't see much evidence on the pitch. Good managers over achieve or deliver results.
Click to expand...

I dont think motivation is the issue. Last night you were just playing a better team

Its not uncommon to get beaten in a cup by a lower league team. Happens all the time.
 
joescrivens said:
I dont think motivation is the issue. Last night you were just playing a better team

Its not uncommon to get beaten in a cup by a lower league team. Happens all the time.
Click to expand...

To Liverpool maybe!!!

It was the performances this season that get me. No disgrace in losing to bayern though. Very good side.
 
cambsno said:
To Liverpool maybe!!!
Click to expand...

to everyone. Look how many times a lower team has kicked out a top half prem team from the fa cup or carling cup. It happens all the time.

Didn't man u get kicked out of cups by both leeds and crystal palace in the last few years for example?
 
The Greek said:
Alisher Usmanov make Roman Abramovich look like a pauper.
Click to expand...

He might well make Abramovich look like a saint too; sadly there's a lot of question marks over who/what he's been involved in.

Kroenke vs Usmanov isn't exactly an ideal situation to be in. Fortunately we, as fans, are powerless to decide who takes control of us anyway so it's not a decision we need trouble ourselves with.
 
dinners said:
Why not ?

Man United can't compete with Chelsea or Man City, but they do.
Click to expand...

They are in a position of dominance and are a bigger club. They have arguably the best manager of all time, and with rvp can still go out and buy the very best.
 
TriggerHappy said:
He might well make Abramovich look like a saint too; sadly there's a lot of question marks over who/what he's been involved in.
Click to expand...



Well he will have a lot in common with the owners of City United and Chelsea then. TBH, I'm yet to meet a billionaire thats whiter than white, most have stepped on many, on the way up.

Also, it would mean the return of David Dean :)
 
The Greek said:
:lol: You are joking Phil?
Click to expand...

Not at all.

City and Chelsea are in a different league to everybody (including United) when it comes to investment in players but United have held their own.
 
Last edited:
TriggerHappy said:
Now that's something I'm hugely in favour of! Sadly, I can't ever see it happening whilst Peter Hill-Wood is still Chairman.
Click to expand...

I think Dein going hit us much harder than anyone thought. Why will the board not do anything to bring him back?
 
dinners said:
Why not ?

Man United can't compete with Chelsea or Man City, but they do.
Click to expand...

City have spent so much because they have the money, ;) and they were starting from a much lower level than the Utd of the time. Chel$ki may have not been so far behind Utd as City when Abramovich arrived, but he wanted success in a hurry, like City, as Billionaires tend to do. ;) :lol:

City and Chel$ki may have the Billionaire sugar daddy's, but Utd are still (I think) the highest earning team (from income) in the World. They have money to compete.

Utd have had the money, and they have spent it, and continue to spend it. They were spending big before anyone else, and for the most part spent well, but they spent very big. They've had a number of £20m-£30m players to add to the core of their golden generation which served them so well. They also picked up a few influential bargains like Cantona and Solskjær. That has given them a great core to add to as time has gone on since the start of the Premier League. Having a stable manager, with a clear plan, backed (silently and financially well) by owners, has worked to give continued success over a long period of time. It's not a total change every other year, it's adding to an already well running team, and so needs fewer big buys. There were big buys though. ;)

Fortunes could change at Utd when (if ;)) Ferguson stands down. During Liverpool's successful period, they had people behind the scenes who were able to take over from Shankly until Dalglish left the first time, and were able to improve the team and keep continued success. I doubt any Utd fans are expecting Mike Phelan or Ryan Giggs to take over when Ferguson is not there any more. :nono: Whoever follows Ferguson, will have so much pressure to succeed, and if they have any sense, will only go into the job as long as they are backed very well financially. Stability and the plan will probably change with a new man, and money will need to be spent. Will the current owners of Utd be willing to suddenly spend to match City and Chel$ki? I doubt it, but you never know. :shrug: They have a lot to lose if Utd don't continue to have success. :eek:
 
Last edited:
cambsno said:
I think Dein going hit us much harder than anyone thought. Why will the board not do anything to bring him back?
Click to expand...

This article probably explains the facts better than me http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2311337/Arsenal-crisis-as-Dein-is-ousted-from-board.html

The full details of what "irreconcilable differences" existed have never been revealed, but what we know is that Hill-Wood saw that he was fired.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/ill-never-do-business-with-david-dein-again-6673126.html

Will he ever make his peace? "I will not get involved with him again - I will avoid it if I can help it."
Click to expand...

Basically, I suspect it boiled down to a huge difference in attitudes and approaches between Dein and Peter Hill-Wood.

Peter Hill-Wood is a very traditional, cautious and risk-averse man. Dein is much more forward looking and willing to stick his neck out.

It was Hill-Wood who was reluctant to give the management job to a foreign man when Graham left us in '95 and we ended up with Bruce Rioch despite Dein crying out for Wenger to take the position.

If the recent history of Arsenal interest you I can't recommend the book 'Arsenal - The Making of a Modern Superclub' enough. It's a fantastic read.

Here's an interesting abstract as a bit of an aside:

George Graham's downfall could not happen today. No longer do managers control the transfer and contract negotiations: after Graham's departure, David Dein (and subsequently Ken Friar and later Dick Law) would undertake this duty on behalf of the club.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
redhed17 said:
City and Chel$ki may have the Billionaire sugar daddy's, but Utd are still (I think) the highest earning team (from income) in the World. They have money to compete.
Click to expand...

A sore point for many United fans.

The Glazers have done a very good job in terms of maximising revenue and commercial ventures and whilst it's true they generate more income, a bucket load of that is taken by the Glazers to finance the debt they incurred buying the club. The club are puching well below their weight at the moment when it comes to transfers.

redhed17 said:
Utd have had the money, and they have spent it, and continue to spend it.
Click to expand...

I accept United have spent big but when people talk about transfers and lump Chelsea, City and United together - I think it's worth mentioning that United are a lot closer to other teams than they are to Chelsea and City in terms of the numbers. Liverpool have spent more on transfers than United in the last 5 seasons, since 2003 & since the Premier League began. That is also the case when it comes to 'Net Spend'.
 
Last edited:
dinners said:
A sore point for many United fans.

The Glazers have done a very good job in terms of maximising revenue and commercial ventures and whilst it's true they generate more income, a bucket load of that is taken by the Glazers to finance the debt they incurred buying the club. The club are puching well below their weight at the moment when it comes to transfers.
Click to expand...


That is something that may become a big problem when Utd have to spend big post Ferguson.

dinners said:
I accept United have spent big but when people talk about transfers and lump Chelsea, City and United together - I think it's worth mentioning that United are a lot closer to other teams than they are to Chelsea and City in terms of the numbers. Liverpool have spent more on transfers than United in the last 5 seasons, since 2003 & since the Premier League began. That is also the case when it comes to 'Net Spend'.
Click to expand...

Liverpool have spent more, but whereas Utd have been stable and adding to a successful squad, Liverpool have had to change the team every time a new manager has come in, and unfortunately we have been through turbulent times after many decades of stability. :bang:

Utd could spend tens of millions on a few high quality players to add to a winning team, Liverpool had to spend a few million on multiple players to a team that was always behind the leaders throughout the Premier League era. :(

Some players work out, some don't, as you're always taking a risk. :shrug: In Liverpool's case we went from a French revolution to a Spanish revolution, nevermind the massive overpayment on average British players during the poor Souness and Evens eras, which led Liverpool to such a radical change, but more money buys higher quality who should be less of a risk. If you buy a player who in theory is a little bit better than what you already have, there is more risk of failure, as they may bottle it, or the players you have may up their game or whatever. If you are trying to replace a home grown player, or a player valued at a few million with someone valued at tens of millions, the new player is more likely to stand out, be a success, and so improve your team.

It is also easier to go into a winning team too. :shrug: For every Veron, there is a Ferdinand, Cole, Van Nistelrooy, Ronaldo, Rooney etc. Adding one or two players of that quality level 'should' improve the team. ;)
 
redhed17 said:
That is something that may become a big problem when Utd have to spend big post Ferguson.
Click to expand...

Well it's the great unknown isn't it I guess.

All I would say, is that the club will be in a better position than it was when he took over.

Great result for Milan tonight against Barcelona. hopefully that will make for decent 2nd leg now.
 
Did Milan re-lay the flanks of the pitch with a terrible surface again, or was that a bit of special treatment they reserve for welcoming Arsenal? :lol:

Good result for the neutral though. Will certainly be an exciting 2nd leg!

It also adds to the likelihood of my prediction the CL trophy would end up in Germany more likely.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top