The Football Thread - Season 2012/2013

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dinners said:
With regards to Jose Mourinho - I saw this written elsewhere and I can see what the person was getting at.

I would like someone humble, someone who wants to make themselves part of the fabric of our history, rather than thinking that we were becoming part of the fabric of theirs.

I agree with Leigh - I'm in two minds about whether I'd want Mourinho at United. On the one hand you'd have the media circus and controvosy but on the other hand I wouldn't like the thought of him going to a rival club if he came back to England. What I would say is that the United job (or more to the point following Fergie) would be the sort of challenge that his ego would like.

Pep Guardiola is pretty much unproven at anything other than what was required to manage Barca. Pretty much an unknown quanity.

To be honest I'd be happy with Moyes.

I think a lot depends on when and how Fergie calls it a day. If it's a case of looking to see who is available when he steps down then some of these names might not even be an option. If on the other hand it's a case of looking to bring them in when they're available and Fergie was planning to step down at that time then who knows.
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I agree that Moyes is the best man for the United job, as much as that pains me to admit.
 
Was playing fifa on my ipad last nigth and the fixture was against arsenal. Here's hoping we get some of this on Jan 30th :lol:

suarez
[YOUTUBE]0GBGEyD114Q[/YOUTUBE]

gerrard
[YOUTUBE]KsV4fW1axHg[/YOUTUBE]
 
Fantastic piece (for once) by Ollie Holt in the Mirror on Arsene Wenger

It's what I've been saying for a while and I couldn't agree with him more.
 
TriggerHappy said:
Fantastic piece (for once) by Ollie Holt in the Mirror on Arsene Wenger

It's what I've been saying for a while and I couldn't agree with him more.
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Agree to a point, but when u look at our team compared to the west hams, swanseas, WBA, evertons etc we have far better players. So that makes the manager the one to blame. He has not bought players when he needed to, and his buys in the last few years have been poor compared to previous years. We have the 4th highest wage bill, well why not stop giving the likes of chamack and Denison 50k a week and use that money to give the likes of Walcott 100+.
 
cambsno said:
We have the 4th highest wage bill, well why not stop giving the likes of chamack and Denison 50k a week and use that money to give the likes of Walcott 100+.
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Denilson is on loan and having 100% of his wages paid + a loan fee and hasn't been ruled out of having a role at Arsenal.

Did you see this goal a couple of months ago? Not a bad strike!

[YOUTUBE]V0tWdEYvO5U[/YOUTUBE]

Chamakh was a great striker in Ligue 1 and £50K was arguably a fair fee at that time. I quite agree he's since flopped in the PL but these things are difficult to predict and you can't simply stop paying them once they have their contract.

I quite agree the fat needs to be trimmed from the wage bill but I'm not under the illusion that it's an easy thing to do. If you can't find a club willing to buy or loan them your hands are tied.

There's also the factor that contract negotiations aren't the responsibility of Wenger. It's quite true we're not the best negotiators but that isn't a job of Wenger's. It's Gazidis' job to negotiate transfers, contracts, agent fees etc. Occasionally Wenger attempts to intervene (RVP and Walcott contracts) but that's a last resort and only stands to highlight how much Wenger is being left out to dry by his seniors for their own failings.

Edit: Here's a quote to back up that Denilson's wages are being paid in full
Arsenal midfielder Denilson has extended his stay with Sao Paulo until June 2013 after his initial one year loan spell with the Tricolor was renewed.

Arsene Wenger is said to have been happy to allow the youngster to remain away from the Emirates given the emergence of Emmanuel Frimpong and Francis Coquelin in the past season, with Abou Diaby and Jack Wilshere to return from injury and Alexandre Song a mainstay of the Gunners' midfield there were to be few opportunities for the 24 year old.

Denilson has already racked up nearly fifty appearances for the Paulista side since returning to the club he left in 2006, but Sao Paulo don't have the funds to sign him permanently having splashed out on Shakhtar Donetsk midfielder Jadson already in this window.

Instead, they have negotiated a deal where they will pay all of Denílson's wages, while Arsenal have option to terminate the loan if they receive an offer for a permanent transfer.
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http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/sao-paulo-extend-denilson-arsenal-1133655
 
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cambsno said:
Agree to a point, but when u look at our team compared to the west hams, swanseas, WBA, evertons etc we have far better players. So that makes the manager the one to blame. He has not bought players when he needed to, and his buys in the last few years have been poor compared to previous years. We have the 4th highest wage bill, well why not stop giving the likes of chamack and Denison 50k a week and use that money to give the likes of Walcott 100+.
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You have far better players than those quoted teams but Wenger has bought badly? Which is it? The only thing you are missing is a midfield general.
 
The23rdman said:
You have far better players than those quoted teams but Wenger has bought badly? Which is it? The only thing you are missing is a midfield general.
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We need a good back up keeper. Vermalen was great but some shocking games in last 6 months. Still have doubts about koscielny. At best we have 3 decent centre backs but we are crying out for a sol Campbell or John terry type. Need a left back as Gibbs can't seem to play more than 6 games in a row!!! Or at least a competent reserve.

In mid arteta is good, wilshire world class. Carzola started great but massively off the pace. Aside from them our mids are average. Up top gervinho is a waste of space and was expecting more from podolski.

Once you look outside a starting 11 we are very weak.
 
cambsno said:
Agree to a point, but when u look at our team compared to the west hams, swanseas, WBA, evertons etc ...
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I've just been looking through the tables and only see one west ham, swansea and everton :shrug:
Pet hate of mine right there, especially as you've included etc to represent the 'likes of' :D
 
cambsno said:
We need a good back up keeper. Vermalen was great but some shocking games in last 6 months. Still have doubts about koscielny. At best we have 3 decent centre backs but we are crying out for a sol Campbell or John terry type. Need a left back as Gibbs can't seem to play more than 6 games in a row!!! Or at least a competent reserve.

In mid arteta is good, wilshire world class. Carzola started great but massively off the pace. Aside from them our mids are average. Up top gervinho is a waste of space and was expecting more from podolski.

Once you look outside a starting 11 we are very weak.
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Fair enough
 
I thought it was interesting to read that a lot of our new signings felt the level of training we maintain through congested fixtures is very tough. It seems in the bundesliga and liga bbva the players get more time to recover between games and less time on the training ground.

It certainly helps explain why they started sharp and their performance has tailed off.

Clearly Wenger feels the same, which is why they stayed at home and had the day to themselves yesterday.
 
Congratulations to Chelsea for a new record. The first ever Champions League winners to not get beyond the group stage the following year :lol:

Gutted for Messi who looks to be badly inured just 1 goal shy of equalling the record for the most goals in a year.
 
dinners said:
Congratulations Celtic
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I read that it was a blatant dive for their winning penalty. I wonder if they'll want a rematch like they did when Eduardo dived during Arsenal's 3-1 win against them. Something tells me they probably think diving is ok right now :D
 
TriggerHappy said:
I read that it was a blatant dive for their winning penalty.
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No idea if I'm honest.

I was working down in Glasgow today and got back late. Had an offer of a ticket but with the snow and other things decided to head back up the road.

Blatant dive or not (not seen any footy today) I guess the finger always points to incidents in the final games but there are no doubt key moments all through the qualification rounds just like the duration of the league campaign.
 
Yes, that's correct, Henderson scored!
 
Today is the day. I feel it in my bones. Wigan's central defense is absent through suspension, they have other injuries, are on poor form, but I feel we can do it, the 16 match record awaits us!

But really, I think we might get our first win today. I really do. Optimism, though, I have have found, has not served me well this season!
 
I'm reading that Cazorla dived for our penalty. If true that's really not what I want to see. We don't need to cheat to win (well, maybe we do at the moment but you get the point)!
 
Second one was a cert, not that the commentator seems to think so!
 
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Very happy to have got a win back on the books with a good performance. Wilshere was looking more like his old self. Just need to start putting away the chances in open play. Gervinho got himself into space time after time but squandered them all, and a howler from Podolski didn't help matters. Not going to be too harsh today though, 3 points is what we needed and 3 points is what we got.
 
TriggerHappy said:
Very happy to have got a win back on the books with a good performance. Wilshere was looking more like his old self. Just need to start putting away the chances in open play. Gervinho got himself into space time after time but squandered them all, and a howler from Podolski didn't help matters. Not going to be too harsh today though, 3 points is what we needed and 3 points is what we got.
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Will wait to see motd later but if cazorlas dive was as bad as said on r5 then it's a disgrace. Why won't the FA review things like that and issue a 5 game ban?

See gervinho proved again he is an oxygen thief. If putting him in the starting 11 doesn't prove wenger has lost it, what will?
 
cambsno said:
Will wait to see motd later but if cazorlas dive was as bad as said on r5 then it's a disgrace. Why won't the FA review things like that and issue a 5 game ban?

See gervinho proved again he is an oxygen thief. If putting him in the starting 11 doesn't prove wenger has lost it, what will?
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Wenger apologised post match for the dive, which I thought was a nice touch from the man who's supposed to never see anything. He did add that Cazorla told him he'd felt a touch but it was a dive no doubt.

Gervinho's an odd one. He has moments of brilliance, and as we saw today he can get himself into some cracking positions, but he fluffs the majority of opportunities and the ratio of good to bad is nowhere near satisfactory. If he could ever become more consistent with the good he'd be a great player but as it stands I don't see him as first team quality at all. He's the about the only Arsenal player I don't feel any emotional attachment to, which probably says a lot.
 
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akr said:
Today is the day. I feel it in my bones. Wigan's central defense is absent through suspension, they have other injuries, are on poor form, but I feel we can do it, the 16 match record awaits us!

But really, I think we might get our first win today. I really do. Optimism, though, I have have found, has not served me well this season!
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The record is ours! :banana::woot:
 
Here's a gif of the dive:

69b0621275b80b8a01142aaab5b47986_large


Looks as though Cazorla's foot was grazed, but certainly not sufficient to take his leg out from under him.

I wonder if the dive from Rosenburg in the same game will get a mention on MOTD. Referees need to start yellow carding for every dive. Too often you see a player go down and appeal only for the ref just to tell them to get up. It's so rare that dives actually get punished, which means the players have nothing to lose by trying it.

In the last 4 home games, Arsenal have had as many penalties (3) as they have had in the 41 previous games at the Emirates.
 
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TriggerHappy said:
Here's a gif of the dive:

69b0621275b80b8a01142aaab5b47986_large


Looks as though Cazorla's foot was grazed
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More tickled lightly with a feather! :suspect:

I feel for referees, it is often too hard to tell from the angle or the speed - it's hard enough sometimes just working out if the ball was one, and that should be the only decision they have to make.

This is one area I completely agree with Cambsno, there should be retrospective action taken - a 3 game ban would be fine by me, and would soon cut it out. You would either have to have a citing commitee of some sort, independent from The F.A., or have clubs cite players from opposing teams when they felt diving had occurred.
 
Yeah I'd go with that.

While they're at it they need to do away with the rule that stops retrospective punishment for any incidents the referee has seen, regardless of the decision he made at the time.
 
TriggerHappy said:
Yeah I'd go with that.

While they're at it they need to do away with the rule that stops retrospective punishment for any incidents the referee has seen, regardless of the decision he made at the time.
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Diving is so hard to tell, there should be no disciplinary action from ref at all, they often get it wrong both ways, so the FA should review games. 3 matches not enough imo. 5 at least.
 
TriggerHappy said:
Yeah I'd go with that.

While they're at it they need to do away with the rule that stops retrospective punishment for any incidents the referee has seen, regardless of the decision he made at the time.
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That bugs me too however I appreciate the problem.

Retrospectively punishing a player for something the ref has missed is fair enough but retrospectively punishing a player for something the referee has seen and evaluated undermines him and opens a can of worms.
 
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Cazorla is a disgrace. If wenger had any balls he would discipline him but like Brendan Rodgers is happy to see cheats prosper.

We beat WBA at home with a penalty that never was, WBA denied a pen and us getting another dodgy pen. Hardly reason to be optimistic!
 
Not sure I agree with Alan Hansen's analysis of the two penalties.

I certainly don't think ox pushed the guy before he was fouled in the box. His hand touches his side but nothing about his body language suggests he's actually pushing or exerting any pressure and the way the guy fell wasn't exactly natural, to my eyes at least.

Obviously Cazorla dived, made a meal of it and it shouldn't have been given, but there was contact, albeit a glancing touch, but not the "2 feet" away and "didn't touch him" that Hansen said. They're always at pains to distinguish between someone who makes the most of contact however small and someone who simulates without ever having being touched so I do think they're jumping on the bandwagon a bit.
 
Ox one is a hard one. We can see different angles in slow motion and still not decide. It was one that could have gone either way, so IMO we were lucky to win the game.

Still on sure about contact, and even if there was, not enough to go down like Suarez.
 
I saw the Cazorla incident on MOTD. Probably was a dive but whether his sock was brushed - it's hard to tell.

Either way (and I've said this before) I wouldn't be sorry to see the back of penalties as we know them.

'When I were a lad' - penalties seemed to be quite rare. Now just about every game seems to have them, be decided by them or at least a big drama over them. If the average match had 20 goals then awarding a penalty worth a single goal wouldn't really bother me as the effect on the result would be minimal but in a sport where just a few goals per game are scored, penalties are just too much of an attractive option.

We need the benefit of having a penalty awarded reduced.

I'd like to see a penalty awarded ONLY if it's a last defender / clear goal scoring situation in the box.

Other alternatives off the top of my head....

Have the penalty spot moved back.
Replace penalties with indirect free kicks.
Penalties scored are included for goal difference in the leage table but not counted in the game.
Player v Keeper one on ones.

Anything other than the result of a great match being so heavily influenced by a brushed leg or a trod on toe just inside the box when nothing was likely to come of it anyway.
 
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cambsno said:
Ox one is a hard one. We can see different angles in slow motion and still not decide. It was one that could have gone either way, so IMO we were lucky to win the game.

Still on sure about contact, and even if there was, not enough to go down like Bale.
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Corrected that for you.
 
cambsno said:
Ox one is a hard one. We can see different angles in slow motion and still not decide. It was one that could have gone either way, so IMO we were lucky to win the game.

Still on sure about contact, and even if there was, not enough to go down like Suarez.
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Blah blah blah Suarez blah blah.
 
Don't you think I did well to see those Suarez references and pass on by.

Anyway - City V United

I'm away out shortly over to Loch Tay for the day and I'm going to miss the match. Could be a nightmare the way we've defended of late but you never know.
 
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Looking forward to West Ham v Liverpool later. Pity Andy Carroll is out but they did well against Chelsea last week without him. Just read that Suarez is suspended today. What's he done now?
 
Picked up a yellow card last game that brought him to 5 for the season meaning a one match ban.
 
TriggerHappy said:
Picked up a yellow card last game that brought him to 5 for the season meaning a one match ban.
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Ah - undeserved, I'm sure. ;) So it'll be sod's law that Liverpool will score loads without him...

And I should've realised Carroll wouldn't be playing anyway due to the loan agreement.
 
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