The Football Thread - Season 2011/2012

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It's all a bit yawn worthy tonight so far.

Haven't even bothered with the popcorn !

thats cos none of it involves your lot and thank god you didn't get wesley sneijder!

I'm gutted to have lost Merieles, I think in the second half of last season he was our best player.

As for craig belamy, i'd rather not have him. I know he'll score goals but he's just a wanderer, no loyalty, and a right cretin too.

So glad to have shifted poulsen and ngog though, i couldn't stand either of them
 
Sneijder - As I said earlier and a class player no doubt - I was undecided (United fans were certainly divided) about whether it would have been a good signing. On the whole I'm happy with the players that came in before pre season.

Merieles - I heard his transfer request breaking last night with 10 mins to go. Was it Chelsea he went to ?

Craig Belamy - good player but agree about him being a cretin. He's like an angry Norman Wisdom. Certainly plays with a chip on his shoulder about something. Wish he'd wind his chin in and 'Calm Down'. As for the move - you can always rely on him to move during any transfer window.
 
yup chelski

i'm sure you'll go for sneijder again in january when your sat in 3rd place below man city and chelski :lol::lol::lol:

moderic will no doubt move in january as well, im surprised neither of those happened this summer, very surprised

im pleased with all the signings since january when kenny came in but i would have rather kept merieles and lost bellamy - i'm sure if he puts the ball into the net that qualifies us for the CL again I might eat my hat but still!
 
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timmygcsc2308 said:
but for £3m mate I really can't see why this is a gamble, unless you are looking at it from the perspective that Wenger will see this as the only signing we need in the attacking half of the field, true but wait till 11pm tonight because I hope some decent creative players will be joining us soon..

I didn't mean gamble in a fiscal sense....it's a gamble if he is good enough to fill RVP's boots...is he good enough to be a 20 goal a season man? I think the new first XI can compete with the Top 4 teams...defence is definitely better than it was last season. I still don't think the squad is up to it though. Injuries and suspensions will bs key for the Gooners this year which can only get better given how they have started!
 
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I suspect the anger aimed at Wenger has been rather mis-placed. I think it's the board and owners that have had the shackles tight on the bank for some seasons now. Past spending has shown that Wenger can buy big (Henry for £10.5m in 1999, Wiltord for £13m in 2000). Regardless, every club goes through it's ups and downs. Liverpool haven't won the league for 21 years, for example. We've qualified for the Champions League for 14 consecutive years (all under Wenger) so no-one can criticise our success even if we have haltered on the brink of trophies more recently. I won't even mention our undefeated season in 2007....oh wait, I just did. Added to the fact we have a new £390m stadium, a financial model that will see us profitable for years without excessive input from ownership and somewhat questionable sponsorship deals, and you have a club that's built on a solid foundation that will continue to be competitive for years to come.

I 100% agree that it is the board that have a lot to answer for an Wenger has taken too much of the flack. Gazidis came in three years ago and is great at the PR stuff but I don't really see much evidence of the business being managed properly...and it is a business.

Whilst you are right that building the stadium was a major success I'd disagree that it will see us profitable for years to come. The stadium business model was developed in the years before Chelsea and Man City were really thought of as being here to stay...they have changed the face of football financially forever. I don't really hold out much hope of the UEFA financial fair play rules having much teeth.....UEFA need the clubs and if push comes to shove they'll split and form a super league. The clubs have already started making noises about splitting from UEFA and FIFA

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/26/sepp-blatter-fifa-reforms

Arsenal simply can't compete financially...Arteta came to Arsenal for £20k less than he was on at Everton. Until the long term stadium/ shirt sponsorship and shirt deals with Emirates and Nike are renegotiated Arsenal simply can't compete. Unfortunately the board only realised this when it was too late.....if you remember when Kronke first appeared on the scene Peter Hill-Wood famously said "we don't need his sort" (a billionaire owner/benefactor) and kicked David Dein off the board for selling ITV's 10% shareholding to him. They obviously have now got into bed with Kronke, the board all sold their shares to him and have made out like bandits but he is not the owner....Arsenal do not have an owner. He's the majority shareholder and as such won't invest as he'd be subsiding the people that own the other 40% of the club....that is massive issue.

So we have a club with revenues that don't allow us to compete on wages as a Top 4 club, an ownership structure that precludes external investment to bridge the gap and some very rich ex-board members. It's actually scandalous how that club has been managed as a business.....if the chairman of a normal listed company had done such a huge u-turn as Hill-Wood did he'd be long gone.

Kronke could probably see that if he invested £20 or £30 mil a year in the club for the next three or four years it would pay massive dividends in the long term...but he's not going to do it and he's not rich enough by any means to make Usmanov an offer for his 30% that he can't refuse. Usmanov is worth about £10bil which is five or six times what Kronke is worth.

What we have seen this summer could easily be repeated next year....both RVP and TV5 will have one year left on their contracts next summer.
 
Disagree. He spends £12m on chamberlain who we don't really need, was bidding £20m for more French players yet couldn't go above £10m for someone like Cahill. The board may restrict in some ways but the manager is the one not bidding the right amounts for the right players. Yes, we cannot compete with man c or Chelsea but we can still go after the right players if we want to.
 
As a QPR fan I'm pretty happy with our business, for very little transfer money, but no doubt some hefty wages for some. Barton, SWP and young are fantastic signings, bothroyd, dj, traore, Ferdinand will improve us and we have a great chance of staying up now. To have players of this quality we could not even dream of 2 weeks ago, and I'm going to get a part refund on my season ticket!
 
As for Arsenal, there is no way Wenger should go, but he has royally messed up this transfer window. Why he didn't sign Cahill and Parker I will never understand.
 
akr said:
As for Arsenal, there is no way Wenger should go, but he has royally messed up this transfer window. Why he didn't sign Cahill and Parker I will never understand.

And samba and Barton, and a top striker too.
 
Does anyone know how the Owen Hargreaves situation will work? The clubs are now supposed to list their first team squad of 25(?) players and I don't see why you would include someone who might never even kick a ball all season, yet presumably Hargreaves will have to be named in the 25 to stand a chance of getting a game at all? :thinking:
 
Does anyone know how the Owen Hargreaves situation will work? The clubs are now supposed to list their first team squad of 25(?) players and I don't see why you would include someone who might never even kick a ball all season, yet presumably Hargreaves will have to be named in the 25 to stand a chance of getting a game at all? :thinking:

He's 100% fit - so unless he picks up another injury he'll be fine.
 
Disagree. He spends £12m on chamberlain who we don't really need, was bidding £20m for more French players yet couldn't go above £10m for someone like Cahill. The board may restrict in some ways but the manager is the one not bidding the right amounts for the right players. Yes, we cannot compete with man c or Chelsea but we can still go after the right players if we want to.

Well he's not the only one that didn't want to pay Bolton's price for Cahill and hopefully Mertesecker will be a good buy and considerably cheaper. Cahill has 4 England caps with the big German having 70 odd at the very highest level....he also has an unbelievable disciplinary record. Only 9 bookings in 200 plus games. I think Wenger got that right to be honest.

Oh and I have it on good authority that Chamberlain was £12mil rising to £17mil :eek:
 
Does anyone know how the Owen Hargreaves situation will work? The clubs are now supposed to list their first team squad of 25(?) players and I don't see why you would include someone who might never even kick a ball all season, yet presumably Hargreaves will have to be named in the 25 to stand a chance of getting a game at all? :thinking:

That's right.

If City want to include him the 25 then that's the risk they take. It's one United weren't prepared to.

He has a very 'play incentive' based contract at city from what I gather. If he doesn't stay fit and doesn't feature then City aren't wasting money paying him however if they name him in the 25 they would risk having just 24 if the worst were to happen.

If he stays fit and you get a good few years from him - his relatively cheap services could help City with regards to their huge wage bill vs not huge revenue.

That said I suspect the FFP is going to become a joke.
 
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And samba and Barton, and a top striker too.

The last few years have bee odd, Shay Given was another before Man City signed him - I really think with a decent keeper you would have had a chance at the league for the last few years, with one other central defender. All very strange.

I'm still amazed we got Barton, I can see why Wenger might not want him. Samba I'm not sure about as I've not seen him enough, but certainly if you'd had him, Cahill or any central defender who actually had a desire to head the ball you'd not have conceded that first goal against Man Utd - I thought that goal was more embarrassing than the result to be honest.

Still you'll probably finish top 4, not too shabby!
 
Disagree. He spends £12m on chamberlain who we don't really need, was bidding £20m for more French players yet couldn't go above £10m for someone like Cahill. The board may restrict in some ways but the manager is the one not bidding the right amounts for the right players. Yes, we cannot compete with man c or Chelsea but we can still go after the right players if we want to.

And samba and Barton, and a top striker too.

It wasn't just Arsenal that failed to sign Cahill, Tottenham did so too. Note here that I refer to the club rather than the manager, that is because the manager actually has relatively little input in the negotiation process, as it is the chairman who conventionally leads transfer negotiations. Incidentally, it was reported that it was a direct intervention by Wenger that resurrected the seemingly dead Arteta deal. Bolton's valuation of Cahill now he's entered the final 12 months of his contract is clearly felt to be high of the mark, hence why two bigger clubs failed to secure the deal.

You'd be mad to argue you'd rather have the fool that is Barton at our club over Arteta. Arteta is a class above Barton, who I believe to be an average midfielder in the PL when it comes to ability and an absolute moron when it comes to personality. I fear having him at QPR will be a poisoned chalice for them.

I'm not really sure what more you can ask of Wenger; you practically want him to build an entire, world-class starting 11 in a single transfer window which is completely unrealistic.

Wenger is just one of a team of managing staff who all have their influence, and above him is the board and shareholders. Just because he's the face of Arsenal management with a seemingly all-encompassing title doesn't mean he is responsible for every wrong doing you perceive to have existed.

I'm guessing your voice wasn't one of the many fantastic fans who were cheering for Arsenal in Manchester last weekend. Their support made me proud to call myself a Gooner, other's unrelenting criticism saddens me.
 
You think Arsenal will finish above Chelsea, Liverpool, United or City ?

Not United or City, Chelsea or Liverpool quite possibly. I wouldn't put my mortgage on it, but 15 years in a row of CL says Wenger has an idea what he is doing.
 
Not United or City, Chelsea or Liverpool quite possibly. I wouldn't put my mortgage on it, but 15 years in a row of CL says Wenger has an idea what he is doing.

he can't make it there forever though, at some point he will not make it, this year looks more likely than any in the last 15 years for that to happen
 
I'm guessing your voice wasn't one of the many fantastic fans who were cheering for Arsenal in Manchester last weekend. Their support made me proud to call myself a Gooner, other's unrelenting criticism saddens me.

were they still cheering when the 8th goal went in?

The ones I saw on MOTD just looked like they were ready to top themselves
 
Chu Young-park grabbed a hat trick for South Korea last night. Granted it was against Lebanon but we've got Swansea coming up so you never know... :p
 
joescrivens said:
were they still cheering when the 8th goal went in?

The ones I saw on MOTD just looked like they were ready to top themselves

Plenty of them were, yes. MOTD loves to find the most forlorn faces even for a 1-0 defeat. That's not a criticism of MOTD by the way, it's probably my favourite thing on BBC if not TV overall!
 
Plenty of them were, yes. MOTD loves to find the most forlorn faces even for a 1-0 defeat. That's not a criticism of MOTD by the way, it's probably my favourite thing on BBC if not TV overall!

Why were they cheering? Arsenal were dismal in that game.
 
It wasn't just Arsenal that failed to sign Cahill, Tottenham did so too. Note here that I refer to the club rather than the manager, that is because the manager actually has relatively little input in the negotiation process, as it is the chairman who conventionally leads transfer negotiations. Incidentally, it was reported that it was a direct intervention by Wenger that resurrected the seemingly dead Arteta deal. Bolton's valuation of Cahill now he's entered the final 12 months of his contract is clearly felt to be high of the mark, hence why two bigger clubs failed to secure the deal.

You'd be mad to argue you'd rather have the fool that is Barton at our club over Arteta. Arteta is a class above Barton, who I believe to be an average midfielder in the PL when it comes to ability and an absolute moron when it comes to personality. I fear having him at QPR will be a poisoned chalice for them.

I'm not really sure what more you can ask of Wenger; you practically want him to build an entire, world-class starting 11 in a single transfer window which is completely unrealistic.

Wenger is just one of a team of managing staff who all have their influence, and above him is the board and shareholders. Just because he's the face of Arsenal management with a seemingly all-encompassing title doesn't mean he is responsible for every wrong doing you perceive to have existed.

I'm guessing your voice wasn't one of the many fantastic fans who were cheering for Arsenal in Manchester last weekend. Their support made me proud to call myself a Gooner, other's unrelenting criticism saddens me.

It appears to be Arteta taking a pay cut which got the deal going again... But while I think Mertsecker is a great signing and a great price for someone so experienced, anyone knows we need another def at least. Squillaci, Djorou and Koscielny are 4th choices at best, and not good enough for a team hoping for top 4. Cahill, or Samba, or someone else... we do need another player as Vermaelen does have injury problems.

Again, I like Arteta but we need a really solid midfielder and based purely on the pitch, Barton has been a top player for the last year or 18 months - my mate who is a Geordie says he has easily been their best player in that time. He was a free and would have added so much to us.

I really do believe that had Wenger strengthened in Jan, we could well have won the league - or at least one of the cups. The reason why he does need to buy so many players now is that he has not bought well for a few years.
 
Why were they cheering? Arsenal were dismal in that game.

My best mate is an Everton fan, and a good few years ago I went to them play Everton. They won 6-0, but the Hammers fans were fantastic, and celebrated winning a throw in like they'd just come back to score the winning goal- they were almost as entertaining as the match.

Game I went to the day before - QPR - Palace, we won 6-0 to stay up on the last day of the season.

Two 6-0 games two days in a row, bet not many people have seen that!
 
joescrivens said:
Why were they cheering? Arsenal were dismal in that game.

Because they stood by, supported and encouraged their team in spite of their performance. It's easy to back your team when they win, I bet thousands of part time united fans took the time to gloat to friends about that particular scoreline but the same friends will be silent when united don't perform. I'm surprised as a liverpool fan, after last year's season, you're not more aware of fan support regardless of the performance!
 
Because they stood by, supported and encouraged their team in spite of their performance. It's easy to back your team when they win, I bet thousands of part time united fans took the time to gloat to friends about that particular scoreline but the same friends will be silent when united don't perform. I'm surprised as a liverpool fan, after last year's season, you're not more aware of fan support regardless of the performance!

Fan support regardless of performance is different to cheering on a team who perform shockingly. Support means not knocking them, still watching them, trusting the players and the coach, not booing them. Desn't mean you cheer when they get totally thrashed.

I've always been a huge England supporter and even through the poor performances I stay upbeat, i was at wembly on that woeful rainy night when Croatia beat us and stopped us qualifying and the crowd booed them off. I thought it was despicable behaviour, you wouldn't find me booing the team. but I wasn't cheering either. There was nothing to cheer about.

Doesn't mean my support waned though.

If arsenal put in everything they had, performed against the odds and just got out performed I would understand the cheers. But arsenal were themselves shocking, so what's to cheer?
 
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Fan support regardless of performance is different to cheering on a team who perform shockingly. Support means not knocking them, still watching them, trusting the players and the coach, not booing them. Desn't mean you cheer when they get totally thrashed.

I've always been a huge England supporter and even through the poor performances I stay upbeat, i was at wembly on that woeful rainy night when Croatia beat us and stopped us qualifying and the crowd booed them off. I thought it was despicable behaviour, you wouldn't find me booing the team. but I wasn't cheering either. There was nothing to cheer about.

Doesn't mean my support waned though.

If arsenal put in everything they had, performed against the odds and just got out performed I would understand the cheers. But arsenal were themselves shocking, so what's to cheer?

So if a team plays badly then everyone shouldn't cheer but shouldn't boo, you just think the crowd should be silent? People cheer to try and pick their team back up and inspire them to go up a gear. Ever heard of the crowd being the 12th man? I fear this discussion is going nowhere.
 
If arsenal put in everything they had, performed against the odds and just got out performed I would understand the cheers. But arsenal were themselves shocking, so what's to cheer?

It's to do with reaching a certain low point, not quite past caring, but when things are so bad you the football almost becomes irrelevant. Making the best of it or something like that, but in extreme circumstances. I'd bet that if they lost 3-1 in a 'normal' season it would not happen
 
So if a team plays badly then everyone shouldn't cheer but shouldn't boo, you just think the crowd should be silent? People cheer to try and pick their team back up and inspire them to go up a gear. Ever heard of the crowd being the 12th man? I fear this discussion is going nowhere.

I think this might come down to a different interpretation of what cheering is, what you describe here is trying to encourage the team that's down. I.e. 'cheering them on' for that I agree should happen.

The way I first read it it was cheer like they were saying 'good job, well done'
 
I think this might come down to a different interpretation of what cheering is, what you describe here is trying to encourage the team that's down. I.e. 'cheering them on' for that I agree should happen.

The way I first read it it was cheer like they were saying 'good job, well done'

Agreed, cheer was never meant in the sense of congratulating the performance :thumbs:
 
Scotland have a team back in Europe......hooray for technicalities, well until the other team puts in their appeal anyway.

Sod our club teams anyway, national team play at 3pm. We really have a chance agaisnt the Czechs today, their missing a fair few of the top players and at home there is nothing like the Tartan Army at Hampden. Wish I was going but alas will be in the pub for this game.
 
As long as the national team are still in Euro 2012 come 5 o'clock! :clap:

Update: Haven't seen the tv pictures, but apparently the Czech guy dived for the equaliser and we wuz robbed. :'(
 
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Refs - can't have a game without them and illegal to beat them up when they get a call wrong.

Czech player dived for their penalty, boy goes done with a stronger claim and gets booked for diving. Football is not fair sometimes.



*MackieStaggie is going to do what the Scots do best.....get drunk*
 
Shame for the scots.

Hopefully England can make the euro's and Scotland can support us instead.

And pigs might fly :lol:
 
Here's hoping we can put in a decent performance against the Welsh tonight !
 
Shame for the scots.

Hopefully England can make the euro's and Scotland can support us instead.

And pigs might fly :lol:

Nuts to that...espically since you guys just cost me money. Had a tenner on over 2.5 goals on that game (along with under 2.5 goals in the Scotland game which would have got me £20 ish back + my stake)

I mean come on....even Scotland scored 3 back in May.
 
4th in the world rankings is very flattering. Wales could have beaten us quite easy today.
Rooney looking frustrated at times and fat Frank looking fat doing nothing.

Job done but by painting over the cracks
 
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