The final camera decision...

twist said:
But I was talking about lens size and said the difference lies in the body or was I wrong?

Never saw much special in the 55 tbh. It was sharp but not much pop imo.
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Yes but you can't take a photo with just the lens, you have to look at the overall package ;)
 
twist said:
So in 2 cases.
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Sony 12-24mm vs. sigma 12-24mm or canon 11-24mm
Sony 16-35mm f/2.8 is about same size as nikon 16-35mm f/4 which is whole stop slower guess what means for Sony 16-35mm f/4 :p
Sony 28mm f/2 is smaller than Nikon 28mm f/1.8
Sony 24-70mm f/4 is smaller than canon 24-70mm f/4

Well that's 5 cases isn't it? :p
 
nandbytes said:
Sony 12-24mm vs. sigma 12-24mm or canon 11-24mm
Sony 16-35mm f/2.8 is about same size as nikon 16-35mm f/4 which is whole stop slower guess what means for Sony 16-35mm f/4 :p
Sony 28mm f/2 is smaller than Nikon 28mm f/1.8
Sony 24-70mm f/4 is smaller than canon 24-70mm f/4

Well that's 5 cases isn't it? :p
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Add those with the A7 body and you get a smaller and lighter package compared to a DSLR equivalent. :D
 
nandbytes said:
Sony 12-24mm vs. sigma 12-24mm or canon 11-24mm
Sony 16-35mm f/2.8 is about same size as nikon 16-35mm f/4 which is whole stop slower guess what means for Sony 16-35mm f/4 :p
Sony 28mm f/2 is smaller than Nikon 28mm f/1.8
Sony 24-70mm f/4 is smaller than canon 24-70mm f/4

Well that's 5 cases isn't it? :p
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1. The 12-24 Is not the same FL as 11-24
2. The 16-35 2.8 Is smaller than the Nikon f4 but the Canon f4 is miles smaller
3. 28f2 is not 28 f1.8
4. The 24-70 oss is smaller and crapper


So that's 2 cases.

Now...

2470 2.8 fe is bigger
70200 2.8 fe is bigger
70200 4 fe is bigger
35 1.4 fe is bigger
50 1.8 fe is bigger
85 1.4 fe is bigger
85 1.8 both bigger

Shall we go on?
 
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nandbytes said:
Yes some of them are larger but in those cases only slightly. When they are smaller they are a fair amount smaller.
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People seem to not take into account quality. Some of the larger FE lenses are clearly aimed at the higher end of the market and a bit larger as a result. We see the same thing with other top end lenses such as the Sigma art range some of which are also on the large size.

Why some insist that an A7 series camera (for example) is the same size as a DSLR once you put a lens on it or in fact larger I just don't know. Maybe they're smoking something or maybe they are just serial moaners.
 
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Riz_Guru said:
Ok Apples with Apples....

Sony FE 50mm f1.8
Size: 68.6 x 59.5mm

Nikkor 50mm f1.8G
Size: 72 x 52.5mm

The Nikkor is 3.4mm wider and the Sony is 7mm longer.... pretty even in the grand scheme of things, add it to the A7 body and its still more compact than a DSLR setup.

http://camerasize.com/compact/#487.580,486.353,ha,t

If you compare it with the Panasonic GX8 then obviously things are different.
http://camerasize.com/compact/#487.580,629.411,ha,t
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Actually the Nikon is 7.11 x 5.33 and the Sony is 68.6 x 59.5. The Canon is even smaller.
 
woof woof said:
Please don't. You're like a stuck record on this to the point you need therapy of some kind and if you go on there's be a queue round the block.

:D
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Because you don't like the truth and can't accept it. Shut up and stop picking out my posts instead of your Sony mates. ;)
 
twist said:
1. The 12-24 Is not the same FL as 11-24
2. The 16-35 2.8 Is smaller than the Nikon f4 but the Canon f4 is miles smaller
3. 28f2 is not 28 f1.8
4. The 24-70 oss is smaller and crapper


So that's 2 cases.

Now...

2470 2.8 fe is bigger
70200 2.8 fe is bigger
70200 4 fe is bigger
35 2.8 fe is bigger
50 1.8 fe is bigger
85 1.4 fe is bigger
85 1.8 both bigger

Shall we go on?
Click to expand...

1. You seems have conveniently ignored my sigma 12-24mm example
2. 16-35mm f/2.8 is smaller than canon 16-35mm f/2.8 why are you comparing it to f/4. I only compared to nikon f/4 just show its smaller than a slower lens! Sony 16-35mm f/4 is smaller than both
3. please! its close enough!
4. In your opinion

So that's 5 cases.
 
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woof woof said:
People seem to not take into account quality. Some of the larger FE lenses are clearly aimed at the higher end of the market and a bit larger as a result. We see the same thing with other top end lenses such as the Sigma art range some of which are also on the large size.

Why some insist that an A7 series camera (for example) is the same size as a DSLR once you put a lens on it or in fact larger I just don't know. Maybe they're smoking something or maybe they are just serial moaners.
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Well said. :)
 
nandbytes said:
So that's 5 cases.
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You're not comparing apples with apples.

The Sony 35mm f2.8 is massive and heavy too. Everyone knows it's bigger than a Canon 70-200mm f2.8 and it's heavier too. It's a fact that a Sony A7 with a 35mm f2.8 is bigger than a 1D with 70-200mm f2.8. Anyway, you have to go through 30 copies to find a good one because Sony QC is rubbish. Just admit you're wrong and shut up.

:D
 
Nawty said:
All of this is moot if you consider m43 :D
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Exactly :D lol

Or you could go mid-way and get the Fuji XT-2.... I'd still take a XT-2 over any DSLR offerings.
 
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Feel like this has got side tracked....

A7 clearly has its benefits.....better IQ...small FF and its negatives...expensive lenses, slow, no 4K video, no IBIS

GX8 benefits....4k, better lenses (for the money), more portable system, price of the overall package, IBIS, still decent IQ..... and negatives......potential shutter shock, not FF
 
Well... on the MFT issue... my A7 and 28-70mm is the same size as a G1 with the original 14-42mm if the latter is extended. My GX8 or GX80 with the new and almost pancake 14-42mm Mega OIS is smaller both in body (by about a VF hump) and in total size due to the much smaller lens :D

My BIG test is if I'm happy to carry a camera and lens. My A7 and massive 35mm f2.8 fits in the same small Lowepro bag my RF style MFT camera fit in with one of the 17, 25 or 45mm f1.8 Oly lenses or the very small Pany 14-42mm but these days I usually take a man bag and the A7 with 55mm f1.8 or an adapted lens is fine and no one will convince me a 1D is smaller :D
 
Tom Green said:
Feel like this has got side tracked....

A7 clearly has its benefits.....better IQ...small FF and its negatives...expensive lenses, slow, no 4K video, no IBIS

GX8 benefits....4k, better lenses (for the money), more portable system, price of the overall package, IBIS, still decent IQ..... and negatives......potential shutter shock, not FF
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If I had to pick between the two I'd probably swing the GX8 way..... the Sony system isn't cheap at all.
 
Tom Green said:
Feel like this has got side tracked....

A7 clearly has its benefits.....better IQ...small FF and its negatives...expensive lenses, slow, no 4K video, no IBIS

GX8 benefits....4k, better lenses (for the money), more portable system, price of the overall package, IBIS, still decent IQ..... and negatives......potential shutter shock, not FF
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oops sorry! :sorry:

If you were not happy with 7D IQ, I am not sure how you'd be happy with MFT. Just for that reason I'd suggest Sony/Fuji/Nikon APS-C or FF.
A6300 is not massively far off A7 in terms of IQ. You will have a smaller package too. Even A6000 is a massive improvement over 7D. If you want fuji XT20 is small.
 
nandbytes said:
1. You seems have conveniently ignored my sigma 12-24mm example
2. 16-35mm f/2.8 is smaller than canon 16-35mm f/2.8 why are you comparing it to f/4. I only compared to nikon f/4 just show its smaller than a slower lens! Sony 16-35mm f/4 is smaller than both
3. please! its close enough!
4. In your opinion

So that's 5 cases.
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Okay the 12-24 Is smaller. I said the 1635 is smaller you brought up f4 first. Close but not the same. In most comments I've seen.

So 4 cases if incl the 1635 f4 variant, still more larger fe lenses and I didn't even look at 3rd party af DSLR options like you did.
 
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nandbytes said:
oops sorry! :sorry:

If you were not happy with 7D IQ, I am not sure how you'd be happy with MFT. Just for that reason I'd suggest Sony/Fuji/Nikon APS-C or FF.
A6300 is not massively far off A7 in terms of IQ. You will have a smaller package too. Even A6000 is a massive improvement over 7D. If you want fuji XT20 is small.
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DXO and reviews rate the GX8 higher. https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Com...-Lumix-DMC-GX8-versus-Canon-EOS-7D___1041_619

I would have got the A6300 and regret not getting it on Prime day to be honest.
 
nandbytes said:
oops sorry! :sorry:

If you were not happy with 7D IQ, I am not sure how you'd be happy with MFT. Just for that reason I'd suggest Sony/Fuji/Nikon APS-C or FF.
A6300 is not massively far off A7 in terms of IQ. You will have a smaller package too. Even A6000 is a massive improvement over 7D. If you want fuji XT20 is small.
Click to expand...

If you look at the camera comparison sites such as snapsort...

http://snapsort.com/compare/Canon-EOS-7D-Mark-II-vs-Panasonic-Lumix-DMC-GX8/detailed

... they actually rate the GX8 image quality higher and they say that the GX8 has greater DR. I don't know how good that site is but I wouldn't be surprised if they aren't a million miles off. When I compared my Panasonic G1 to my admittedly old 5D I easily convinced myself that the lowly G1 was better in a couple of ways and as time has moved on for Panasonic and arguably Canon haven't moved on all that much I wouldn't be at all surprised if the GX8 does indeed give better image quality than the 7D.

I'd probably have had a GX8 if it wasn't for the SS issue which is IMO too much of a PITA to live with as you never know what lens will be affected, I never expected my Minolta Rokkor 50mm f1.2 to display shutter shock on my GX7 but it was clearly evident. Used with carefully selected lenses I'm sure the GX8 is a good camera though.
 
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nandbytes said:
oops sorry! :sorry:

If you were not happy with 7D IQ, I am not sure how you'd be happy with MFT. Just for that reason I'd suggest Sony/Fuji/Nikon APS-C or FF.
A6300 is not massively far off A7 in terms of IQ. You will have a smaller package too. Even A6000 is a massive improvement over 7D. If you want fuji XT20 is small.
Click to expand...

woof woof said:
If you look at the camera comparison sites such as snapsort...

http://snapsort.com/compare/Canon-EOS-7D-Mark-II-vs-Panasonic-Lumix-DMC-GX8/detailed

... they actually rate the GX8 image quality higher and they say that the GX8 has greater DR. I don't know how good that site is but I wouldn't be surprised if they aren't a million miles off. When I compared my Panasonic G1 to my admittedly old 5D I easily convinced myself that the lowly G1 was better in a couple of ways and as time has moved on for Panasonic and arguably Canon haven't moved on all that much I wouldn't be at all surprised if the GX8 does indeed give better image quality than the 7D.

I'd probably have had a GX8 if it wasn't for the SS issue which is IMO too much of a PITA to live with as you never know what lens will be affected, I never expected my Minolta Rokkor 50mm f1.2 to display shutter shock on my GX7 but it was clearly evident. Used with carefully selected lenses I'm sure the GX8 is a good camera though.
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Yeah, the 7D was pretty shonky when it was released, let alone compared to recent m43 sensors which are very good. Not FF quality but still very good.

I've said a number of times that I am now 100% m43 having bought an EM10 as a travel camera and then I just stopped using my D610, didn't pick it up for a year. The difference in quality for 95% of my shooting was minimal if not negligent given my requirements. All the shots on my Flickr from the past 2 years were shot with m43 and I am more than happy with the output and also the opportunity of being able to carry 24-800mm (FFE) in a small backpack, which was ideal for travelling Alaska in particular.

Others MMV which is why it is a question that can only be answered by the OP.
 
I like MFT. The only things wrong with mine are the relatively crappy field sequential EVF's, I do wish they'd fit better ones and better lenses in front of them too and the cameras also noticeably trail my A7 for dynamic range. I think the latter Panasonic cameras with the new shutter and ability to switch between mechanical and electronic automatically are very good, I just wish my GX80 had the GX7 body and controls.
 
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Nawty said:
Yeah, the 7D was pretty shonky when it was released, let alone compared to recent m43 sensors which are very good. Not FF quality but still very good.

I've said a number of times that I am now 100% m43 having bought an EM10 as a travel camera and then I just stopped using my D610, didn't pick it up for a year. The difference in quality for 95% of my shooting was minimal if not negligent given my requirements. All the shots on my Flickr from the past 2 years were shot with m43 and I am more than happy with the output and also the opportunity of being able to carry 24-800mm (FFE) in a small backpack, which was ideal for travelling Alaska in particular.

Others MMV which is why it is a question that can only be answered by the OP.
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Link to your Flickr mate? (won't show on my phone)
 
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7D is still on par (if not ever so slightly better) than GX8 at higher ISO. You only get more dynamic range at base ISO or low ISOs.

If you want to get a lot of focal length coverage with the smallest possible kit then get the m43. As suggested above you can get 24-800mm in a very small package because of the 2x crop factor.
But if you plan on mostly shooting with a few small primes only and want best possible dynamic range in smallest size possible for landscape get A7.

There is not right or wrong kit so just pick one that suits your style.
 
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Irrespective of relative sizes the Sony A7R2 + native lenses fits into a very compact bag, here's an A7R2, 16-35, 24-70, 70-300 and Voigtlander 10mm in a Manfrotto Adavanced gear backpack, the smallest one in the range, evenroom for batteries, filters and an A6300 in the front.


 
:rolleyes::jaffa::beer::popcorn:

thanks guys, this has been an education and a great way of passing my morning, plenty of tea and biscuits to accompany the interesting discussions and analysis going on here, probably the most technical thread on the site :clap:
 
*UPDATE* - managed to get to a shop and have a go with them both! Ergonomically, the GX8 is perfect and I love the shutter should and the viewfinder tilt. I like the feel of the A7 but it's not as natural! Other than the Fuji-xt range all other mirrorless felt too small for me.
 
Tom Green said:
*UPDATE* - managed to get to a shop and have a go with them both! Ergonomically, the GX8 is perfect and I love the shutter should and the viewfinder tilt. I like the feel of the A7 but it's not as natural! Other than the Fuji-xt range all other mirrorless felt too small for me.
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The longer you take to make up your mind the worse it is going to get to finally make that decision.
 
Did we work out which lenses were the smallest though? ;)

In all seriousness, I took a look around the LCE show in Southampton a few months ago and was shocked at how small the Olympus 45/1.8 was for a portrait lens! Plus, it looked nicely put together. Was also strangely allured by the EM-5 II in silver.

However, it was the Fuji X100T which got me, I was hooked, a beautiful camera. Wind on a few months and I've finally now purchased a nice silver X-T20. No idea how that is at all related.
 
BacktotheFuji said:
Did we work out which lenses were the smallest though? ;)

In all seriousness, I took a look around the LCE show in Southampton a few months ago and was shocked at how small the Olympus 45/1.8 was for a portrait lens! Plus, it looked nicely put together. Was also strangely allured by the EM-5 II in silver.

However, it was the Fuji X100T which got me, I was hooked, a beautiful camera. Wind on a few months and I've finally now purchased a nice silver X-T20. No idea how that is at all related.
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Its related to your handle :)
 
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