The Dale Farm fiasco

[gramps]

So the travellers site is due to be cleared but a last minute restraining order has caused a further delay until Friday. I'm hearing lots of talk on the radio etc about human rights and rascism ... is it me, I thought this was a simple breach of planning laws?

 

[Kieranbennett]

I believe that only covers the removal of structures on the site. My 'very' personal opinion is that the RAF should be allowed to use the site for target practice, would make for some great pictures.

 

[BandyQuill]

yeah there allowed to clear out people still but they are not allowed to move any of the foxed structures, including caravans, they also cant cut off any amenities unless they are causing harm to life or limb...

i reckon they should shoot them on sight...

 

[cambsno]

If any of us built an extension without correct planning permission the council would very quickly see it is knocked down. These people are scum who have broken the law and playing the race card. Send the army in.

 

[TCR4x4]

Maybe all us law abiding citizens should just start doing what the hell we want.
I quite fancy a double storey extention.. Screw the planning, its my Human right to have it aparently.

 

[tijuana taxi]

It might be a breach of planning laws, but who actually wants that land and why shift the problems elsewhere

Once they are evicted it will be a sucession of eviction notices, thousands of pounds to clear their mess at each stopping off point and all for a section of old scrapyard next to a travellers site, hardly a desirable building plot or recreation amenity land

Surprised cambsno wants them moved, soon be heading up to Cottenham where they already own some land

 

[frank]

These people are scum who have broken the law and playing the race card. Send the army in.

I see racism is alive and well on TP, does that mean every travelling person is scum?
I don't think TP is the place for such hatred.

 

[DazJW]

It might be a breach of planning laws, but who actually wants that land and why shift the problems elsewhere

The trouble is if they leave them to it it won't just be that land. Loads of different traveller groups will set up all over the country with impunity because of the precedent that would have been set, and plenty of other people would try their luck with the planning regulations too.

 

[mattd]

The trouble is if they leave them to it it won't just be that land. Loads of different traveller groups will set up all over the country with impunity because of the precedent that would have been set, and plenty of other people would try their luck with the planning regulations too.

I agree, it would open invitation for anyone to buy land and build whatever they like on it knowing that if they fight hard enough in the end the local authority will back down.

 

[Just Dave]

Arent Travellers meant to urm, travel :rules:

 

[Garry Edwards]

I see racism is alive and well on TP, does that mean every travelling person is scum?
I don't think TP is the place for such hatred.

Maybe they're not all scum, just all the ones I've met, defended my property against, cleared up after and heard about from other people.

I'm not saying that all gypsies are scum, but the people we're talking about have come over here because their own country only welcomes them if they obey the law. our country welcomes them even though they break most of our laws.

 

[Jez2011]

Jesus, this thread wouldn't look out of place on Stormfront.

 

[MWHCVT]

Arent Travellers meant to urm, travel :rules:

 

[rhody]

The worry is that once they have left the site - where will they settle next.....?

I have bitter personal experience of what happens when "travellers" are forcibly evicted from a site.

In the case I witnessed and have many detailed photographs of, the day the bailiffs moved in, one caravan was left behind in the middle of the private land they had occupied - over 35 caravans and families involved.

As the last families left, one torched the caravan and inside, it contained some gas bottles. Nice gesture and zero thought for the buildings and businesses that surrounded the field.

The landowner was left with a £20k bill to clean rubbish and human excrement from the bushes which had been used by the families as toilet facilities as there were no main services on site for the 3 months they were in occupation.

After emptying their bowels in the bushes, these "travellers" wiped themselves clean with paper, head scarves, t-shirts, handkerchiefs, knickers, old rags and then left it all behind in the bushes. It was 300 yards of stinking human excrement and soiled rags.

And they are hypocritical enough to moan about their "rights"? :bang:

 

[Jez2011]

We need a final solution

 

[boyfalldown]

Maybe they're not all scum, just all the ones I've met, defended my property against, cleared up after and heard about from other people.

so to play devil's advocate a little, why not leave them on land they own, that's not really desirable for anyone else, and save yourself and others the grief of having to clear up after them?

 

[rhody]

We need a final solution

The situation needs an unvarnished reality check - free of hype and rose tinted urban myth.

 

[rhody]

Arent Travellers meant to urm, travel :rules:

Except when the lure of land grabbing and a permanent home outweighs the "joy" and "life style choice" of being a traveller

 

[onona]

If any of us built an extension without correct planning permission the council would very quickly see it is knocked down. These people are scum who have broken the law and playing the race card.

My feelings exactly. Having said that, it would be appropriate to give them the chance to set things right; from what I've read, they haven't necessarily been given adequate opportunity to do so.

 

[onona]

Kinda off topic...

Jesus, this thread wouldn't look out of place on Stormfront.

Ugh, I googled Stormfront to see what you were talking about, and wish I hadn't. I'd love to be able to laugh at the ridiculous notion of England being turned into an Islamic state, but it's beyond funny. It's tragic and pathetic that there are people who go around spreading this kind of crap. I recently had to do a test on "life in the UK" as I was applying for UK residency, and part of preparing for the test involved studying the UK's demographics - I'd like to see one of these stupid hooligan skinheads explain how 1.2% of the population is somehow going to overpower it. Because that's the percentage of the UK's population that's Islamic.

Grrrrr.

 

[cambsno]

so to play devil's advocate a little, why not leave them on land they own, that's not really desirable for anyone else, and save yourself and others the grief of having to clear up after them?

Because they have broken planning laws and if you or I were to do that we would be prosecuted. What message does that send out?

 

[Jimmy_Lemon]

We need a final solution

I hope you are ignorant of what that term was used for and that is just an unfortunate coincidence!

 

[Flash In The Pan]

Maybe they're not all scum, just all the ones I've met, defended my property against, cleared up after and heard about from other people.

I'm not saying that all gypsies are scum, but the people we're talking about have come over here because their own country only welcomes them if they obey the law. our country welcomes them even though they break most of our laws.

I have some traveller friends and to be honest, apart from one of them (ironically the only one that lives in an actual house) you'd never know they were gypsies. They're just decent, ordinary people.

There are scum in every community, not just the travellers.

 

[Garry Edwards]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Edwards View Post

Maybe they're not all scum, just all the ones I've met, defended my property against, cleared up after and heard about from other people.

so to play devil's advocate a little, why not leave them on land they own, that's not really desirable for anyone else, and save yourself and others the grief of having to clear up after them?

You've obviously never had any of them anywhere near you.
When I lived in London a group of them moved onto a development site in our road. It took 3 years to get rid of them (largely because Haringey Council didn't think it was politically correct to apply the law to what they considered to be a racial minority). The crime rate went through the roof, nobody in the area could sell their house until they'd gone etc.

Another lot moved onto a car park owned by a client, again there were massive problems with theft and filth.

There's an annual gathering near my land in Scarborough, again a massive increase in the crime rate - mainly theft, drunkeness and violence.

As for allowing them to ignore planning laws on land that they've bought, just ask their neighbours, local police, local business etc - planning laws should apply to everyone equally. Nobody should be able to ignore them, any more than they should be able to ignore any other laws

 

[DemiLion]

I have some traveller friends and to be honest, apart from one of them (ironically the only one that lives in an actual house) you'd never know they were gypsies, apart from the two ponies that they kept in their 6th floor flat. They're just decent, ordinary people.

There are scum in every community, not just the travellers.

Fixed that for you!

I agree completely with the last statement though!

 

[Just Dave]

We had our black lab pup 14mth old stolen, just after travellers were round looking for scrap :shrug: they took him along with the cooker we gave them

 

[Keith W]

I hope you are ignorant of what that term was used for and that is just an unfortunate coincidence!

Agreed 100%

To have used it otherwise would just beggar belief

 

[big soft moose]

Mind you if the govt gets its way planning laws are about to become a lot more lax anyway.

that aside i cant help but feeling its slightly ironic that last time we had av travellers thread several of us got infractions for using a marginally derogatory term for travellers -yet this thread has multiple suggestions for violence against them

So its alright to suggest bombing them, sending the army in, etc , but its not okay to call them names

 

[fracster]

We need a final solution

Oh dear.

I hope you are ignorant of what that term was used for and that is just an unfortunate coincidence!

I really hope so.

 

[big soft moose]

I hope you are ignorant of what that term was used for and that is just an unfortunate coincidence!

I asumed he knew what it meant and was using it in a sarcastic sense - ie that people calling for them to be bombed etc was akin to calling for a 'final solution'

whats that 'law' called about internet discussions and comparisons to the third reich again ?

Edit : godwins law !

 

[onona]

We had our black lab pup 14mth old stolen

Oh my god that's just horrible

 

[mattyg]

so to play devil's advocate a little, why not leave them on land they own, that's not really desirable for anyone else, and save yourself and others the grief of having to clear up after them?

I may have it wrong BUT, There are 2 site next to each other one that they own and is NOT in dipute. And one which they decided to take which IS in dispute.

 

[DemiLion]

Given this comment two posts earlier:

Jesus, this thread wouldn't look out of place on Stormfront.

I'd say that this:

We need a final solution

was posted in exasperation!


Read the context people!

 

[Splog]

I may have it wrong BUT, There are 2 site next to each other one that they own and is NOT in dipute. And one which they decided to take which IS in dispute.

I'm fairly sure they own both plots of land!

 

[boyfalldown]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Edwards View Post


You've obviously never had any of them anywhere near you.
When I lived in London a group of them moved onto a development site in our road. It took 3 years to get rid of them (largely because Haringey Council didn't think it was politically correct to apply the law to what they considered to be a racial minority). The crime rate went through the roof, nobody in the area could sell their house until they'd gone etc.

Another lot moved onto a car park owned by a client, again there were massive problems with theft and filth.

There's an annual gathering near my land in Scarborough, again a massive increase in the crime rate - mainly theft, drunkeness and violence.

As for allowing them to ignore planning laws on land that they've bought, just ask their neighbours, local police, local business etc - planning laws should apply to everyone equally. Nobody should be able to ignore them, any more than they should be able to ignore any other laws

actually I have, but unless your proposing moving them to some location where they're no longer able to behave in that way, prison camp maybe? I'm not sure why moving them off land the currently own is any better solution then anything else?.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not seeking to defend their actions, just wondering why moving them from where they are now solves any issues

 

[boyfalldown]

I may have it wrong BUT, There are 2 site next to each other one that they own and is NOT in dipute. And one which they decided to take which IS in dispute.

Its a planning dispute, they own the land but planning permission was only granted for one of the two sites

 

[Flash In The Pan]

Fixed that for you!

:razz:

 

[towershot]

I have only just read this,but I think some of the posts are to strong,I suppose some people whom live near these sites do get fed up,but others are posting with strong comments who do not know them.
Good and bad in all community's,I suppose so but the travellers do seem to go out of there way to abuse the system.

I just think that some laws that are past are not well thought out,in fact bl@@dy stupid,
But the general public have to follow them or be fined or jailed, so to see certain people flaunt them or just simply ignore them and get clean away with it is not conducive of thinking well of them...........

PS.
I quite agree with Hugh, moving them is not sorting out the problem,just shifting it elsewhere.
Sort it out where it is!!!!!!!!!

 

[kelack]

I was going to stay out of this as I have traveller friends and some of the posts in here are quite offensive but I'm putting my mod hat on and saying behave with the comments please.

 

[Splog]

Don't get me wrong - I'm not seeking to defend their actions, just wondering why moving them from where they are now solves any issues

But leaving them would set a precedent for more of the same such actions!.... They broke the rules and should be made to pay.