THE CRITIQUE SANDPIT

Raptor Mike said:
Something I would like to ask is, is there anything wrong with just liking the op's thread should you not be able to/want to give crit for some reason but like the images that have been posted? At least this way the op can see if peeps like their work even if comments have been left.
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I'm not sure wrong is the right word but the problem with that is it detracts from conversation and being a forum it's all about communication... ..
 
Cg_Girl said:
I'm not sure wrong is the right word but the problem with that is it detracts from conversation and being a forum it's all about communication... ..
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Good point. But I'm not sure I want to right crit for every set/image I look at. But then I apriciate it for mine so maybe I should pull my finger out lol
 
Raptor Mike said:
Good point. But I'm not sure I want to right crit for every set/image I look at. But then I apriciate it for mine so maybe I should pull my finger out lol
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hahaha... I know what you mean but it doesn't have to be a huge in depth piece like here;)
 
Raptor Mike said:
Good point. But I'm not sure I want to right crit for every set/image I look at. But then I apriciate it for mine so maybe I should pull my finger out lol
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I get what mean, the way I have been looking at it is this.... If a lot of people have already made a number of relevant comments and I have nothing really constructive to add I think it's acceptable to say you like it, thus acknowledging the others comments and letting the OP your approval! All that sounded a bit stuffy;).
My only slight concern with that is I don't want the OP to think I couldn't be bothered to write a comment.

I normally throw in a 'like to others that make a comment to the OP in agreement with there comments rather than direct to the OP if you get what I mean.

This is generally because I've normally always got too much cobblers to say and the problem is shutting me up! Hopefully my crit has improved and I'd like to think that I can add some (albeit little) value and it might be of some value to the OP.

Hope this makes sense...
Would be nice to have some new images here to pass critique on as it's a sand pit for critique ?

Cheers
Steve
 
69Bonni said:
I get what mean, the way I have been looking at it is this.... If a lot of people have already made a number of relevant comments and I have nothing really constructive to add I think it's acceptable to say you like it, thus acknowledging the others comments and letting the OP your approval! All that sounded a bit stuffy;).
My only slight concern with that is I don't want the OP to think I couldn't be bothered to write a comment.

I normally throw in a 'like to others that make a comment to the OP in agreement with there comments rather than direct to the OP if you get what I mean.

This is generally because I've normally always got too much cobblers to say and the problem is shutting me up! Hopefully my crit has improved and I'd like to think that I can add some (albeit little) value and it might be of some value to the OP.

Hope this makes sense...
Would be nice to have some new images here to pass critique on as it's a sand pit for critique ?

Cheers
Steve
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Ahh I see what you mean. The reason I bought it up is because when I'm browsing through on my tablet I dont always want to leave crit but still want to let the op know I like their set. I know I would rather have a like on my work rather than no comment or like. But of course a comment is preferable.
 
Ditto mate!
 
Since this is the CRITIQUE SANDPIT, it is presumably targeted principally for children ...

In view of Puxton Park's entry policy, can Admin tell us whether single, unaccompanied photographers are still permitted to offer critique or do we have to do it in groups? :thinking:
 
My photos are described as "lousy" by my wife and (keen photographer) son. These critiques are really interesting and helpful to me as I just don't see the issue until its pointed out, they are very educational for me as a "duh" photographer.
 
I have a question about critique. If you don't get any for your images, even though your thread has had loads of views, does that mean your photos are rubbish and people don't say because they don't want to offend you? Of course then you get the catch 22 that how do you improve with no feedback.
 
It could be, it could also mean that your shots are terrific and people can't think of any constructive crit to give, or it could be that most of the views were Bots rather than real people.

People generally seem reluctant to give indepth crit - hence this practice thread *toddles off to look at mikes shots*
 
which thread were you thinking of btw ?
 
I think part of the problem there is that bump shots are quite specialised and not something most people are going to have much experience of (portrait pros excepted of course). Therefore many, apart from gobs***es like me ;) , may be reluctant to point out flaws if they don't have the experience to tell you how to rectify them.

Ive left some crit - in essence for me the weakest area was posing as a lot of it looks forced and unatural - but I'm lacking in being able to tell you how to address that other than "make it more natural" which isnt terribly useful advice. I suspect the answer lies in making the shoot more fun and less awkward as , proffesional models aside, most people don't pose naturally in front of the camera - it might be better to go for a more reportage feel where they go for a walk and have fun together and you document that, rather thsan having a "now stand here, look that way , put your hand here type of vibe"
 
big soft moose said:
I think part of the problem there is that bump shots are quite specialised and not something most people are going to have much experience of (portrait pros excepted of course). Therefore many, apart from gobs***es like me ;) , may be reluctant to point out flaws if they don't have the experience to tell you how to rectify them.

Ive left some crit - in essence for me the weakest area was posing as a lot of it looks forced and unatural - but I'm lacking in being able to tell you how to address that other than "make it more natural" which isnt terribly useful advice. I suspect the answer lies in making the shoot more fun and less awkward as , proffesional models aside, most people don't pose naturally in front of the camera - it might be better to go for a more reportage feel where they go for a walk and have fun together and you document that, rather thsan having a "now stand here, look that way , put your hand here type of vibe"
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Ah that's a good point about the bump shots be a specialized area.

They seemed to be having a lot of fun at the time but maybe I just haven't managed to capture it. We were there for quite a while, about an hour and a half' so maybe it was just too long.

I really appreciate you time on this thread and mine so thanks loads for that :)
 
Okay folks, it's been a while since there's been some "fresh meat" to discuss in this thread... so, this time, for a bit of variety, we thought we'd post something slightly more "challenging" to give critique on... It's one of mine, and I think theres loads of stuff for you to get your teeth stuck into, so, please, have fun and fire away...
 
Back in 2011 I shot a still life arrangement for the 2011 POTY Competition. As a Christmas treat, I also decided that I'd get it printed LARGE, and i've basically been living with this image on Canvas in my Office for the last 3 years.



Still Life with Port and Walnuts by The Big Yin, on Flickr

Still Life With Port and Walnuts.

With a slight nod to the season, this time we've a glass of Port, a handful of Walnuts and a few Chestnuts to fortify us through the long nights.
Even managed to get Bert back from his summer tour of wherever bluebottles spend their vacation for a guest appearance.

All the usual symbolism applies
  • The skull, a reminder of the certainty of death;
  • Over Ripe Fruit, which symbolizes the decay of ageing, and the ephemeral nature of life...
  • Smoke, and the almost burned out Candle which symbolize the brevity of life;
  • The Almost completed hourglass again symbolises the shortness of time;
  • The Dice are an obvious reference to gambling - a form of excess;
  • The pipe is a symbol of vanity and excess, as is the ornate Rummer, decorative Port Jug, and indeed the Drink itself;
  • The Bible rests on the book of Job: 14.1 - "Man that is born of Woman is of few days, and is full of trouble";
  • The Eyeglasses are an indication of ageing and decline;
  • The Walnuts - St Augustine saw the walnut as a symbol of Christ, with the shell as the wood of the cross and the kernel as the life-giving nature of Christ.
  • Once Again, the Dice have also been used to give a personal note to the picture - the 14th being my birthday... as to the significance of the upward facing numbers, you'll have to work that one out yourselves ;-)

After living with this picture for the last few years, there are a few things that are troubling me with the image, and I'd really appreciate a few more people looking at it, partly to see if I'm being overly obsessive and seeing things that nobody else does, but mostly because I've decided that I can't really live with the flaws, both technical and compositional/artistic, so I'm going to have to go for a re-shoot at some point, and move the canvas on... So, any feedback as to how I can improve the next incarnation of this shot is greatly appreciated...
 
could we clarify whether you are seeking technical crit, or crit of the symbolism in the image ?

On the techincal side - i hestitate to give someone who is undoubtedly better with their camera than me advice, but personally I'm not a fan of the catch lights - not least because if there was bright window light why would the candle be burned down , and surely this repast would be more suited to an evening by a roaring fire, not the middle of the day, and thus they ring false and make it more set up than i would prefer

Also i would have framed the shot more widely so the corner of the bible wasnt cropped and more of the smoke can be seen

also whats that long grey thing resting accross the top of the bible and on to the bowl... is it a joss stick used to create the smoke ? (if so it would be better out of sight)

On the symbolism side - its very clever, but its not all totally apparent from the image - for example the text of the bible can't be seen so its not apparent that its on job 14.1 or indeed that its even a bible. Perhaps propping it up would give a better angle of view

The fruit isnt imediately obviously over ripe and the glass of port is too clean and obviously not drunk from to clearly communicate excess (would a spilled drink be more evocative of that ? )

And lastly in an image so bedecked with symbolism the globe doesnt seem to have a purpose - and is possibly out of place in the set up.
 
Technical, Content, Symbolism or Artistic Interpretation, it's all up for discussion Pete...

As I've probably mentioned beforehand, when I come up with these little still-life pieces, I tend to actually write myself a little "back story" to the image, as you would with a short film - so, in effect, the image is a single frame of that short film - if I get it right, it's the key frame of the scene - more often, it's not quite there - which is why, although at a cursory glance this shot gets lots of "ooh's and ahh's", I'm dissatisfied with it to the tune of wanting to bin a canvas print that's larger than my living room telly...

Ok - the (short version of the) back Story (from my original notes)

"Johanes, A relatively affluent Merchant in the later days of his life, had spent an evening With his Pipe and a jug of Claret, contemplating his mortality. As sometimes happens, he'd fallen asleep in his chair. In the morning he awoke, went to the Windows and opened the curtains and shutters and returned to his table, blowing out the candle..."
 
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In the context of that story i'd retract my comment about the catchlight , but i'd put more emphasis on why is the claret undrunk, why is the fruit broadly uneaten , why are his glasses neatly folded on the bible and so forth

If i was restaging this scene to capture the idea of excess in the face of moratality I think i'd have the fuit partly eaten then left to spoil, the glass maybe spilt accross the table or at least knocked over with only dregs remaining. I think i'd bin the globe from the scene , and prop the bible to make it more apparent what he was reading

on the wider point the symbolism is very clever and evocative of an old master painting (as is the shot as a whole) but perhaps you have gone too far in trying to give meaning to every aspect of the scene , rather than picking two or three elements to convey your meaning.

That said i'm well out of my depth with this so you can take all of the above with a large pinch of salt
 
Is the bottom right a tad too dark?

Whose skull is it and indeed who would keep a scull next to their food and drink? I know it's a fairly classical allusion but are there other ways of symbolizing mortality?
 
Sirch, thanks for replying - all input is valued, and I thank you for yours...

sirch said:
Is the bottom right a tad too dark?
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Well, I can't be 100% sure what you're seeing obviously, but certainly on my calibrated display, the grain on the table is clear - and its certainly clear on the 48" wide canvas print on the wall... plus of course, dark is something of a theme with this style of picture. However, it's all down to personal preference I guess.



sirch said:
Whose skull is it and indeed who would keep a scull next to their food and drink? I know it's a fairly classical allusion but are there other ways of symbolizing mortality?
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Well - the Skull is again pretty much a theme running through the whole "Vanitas" Tradition of of the 17th century. Vanitas paintings were considered by their owners to be a combination of a pleasing or beautiful objects and an item of spiritual contemplation - regarding the transience of man and his earthly pleasures in the face of unescapable prospect of death. Other objects also held special significance as references to the passing of time and fragility of human existence - for example candles, hourglass, mirrors, flowers, insects, soap bubbles and shadows - but the "biggie" always seems to be the Skull...

At the end of the day, the picture was based on a 17th century tradition of paintings and art, and rather than reflecting current hygiene obsessed behaviour, I was working to a 300+ year old brief :)
 
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I did rather assume it was my monitor but was just playing in the sandpit, I can barely see the molding on the table edge in the lower right.
 
sirch said:
I did rather assume it was my monitor but was just playing in the sandpit, I can barely see the molding on the table edge in the lower right.
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No worries - it's always good to mention... the image DOES darken from left to right, as it would with the "window" being at the LHS of frame and no other light source now the candle has been snuffed. :)
 
I'm not sure what you think is wrong with this. Its perhaps a little busy but everything has its reason for being there so I'm not sure what I'd remove or if it would suffer as a result of this loss. As Pete says, perhaps making the biblical reference a little more obvious, lift it up, find a large print edition :D and pulling a little further so's not to crop so hard on the skull and bilbe. Though tbh that doesn't bother me so much perhaps I'm not nearly critical enough for this...

@TheBigYin
 
Thanks for your input Steven... Must admit the bible is a rather close printed version - and being rather yellowed with age it doesn't help...

even on a 100% crop of the original it's not massively clear...


BookOfJob100pc_Crop by The Big Yin, on Flickr
 
@TheBigYin

Reminds me of paintings by Adriaen van Utrecht.

I'm sure I've given crit on this in the past haven't I? Seems very familiar.

This is a still life very much in the Vanitas tradition, which was popular in the 17th century, and as the premise of Vanitas was to speak of the transience of life and it's trappings in light of our own certain death, this photograph's description of the cntents does seem to have all the things you'd expect in such a composition. Vanitas was pretty much a result of the growing scientific awareness and conflict with religion... so skulls, scientific instruments etc. were popular subjects.

The contents of your image are very much in the same tradition as this, and the links (even though some weren't apparent to me until I read your list) make this an interesting image to explore... I took some times wandering around it, finding little thematic links, so this respect I think it's excellent. When I first saw the image I was kind of disappointed because it was s derivative of Vanitas paintings, but realised once I started to explore it, that the thought gone into its composition kind of gets over that fairly quickly. It's clearly been put together with thought, and knowledge of the period, history and early Flemish still life. It goes way beyond merely being derivative, and is a faithful, meticulous recreation. The way every single component is linked and accounted for, again... faithful to the genre.

Technically there's not much to criticise. Others have mentioned things like why is the candle recently snuffed when the catch lights make it appear daylight is streaming in, but again, this is keeping with Vanitas - the extinguished candle symbolising death.. a fairly common trope.

The corner of the bible being cropped is annoying. It's not a purposeful crop for a tight composition... its just clipping it... which is something I feel is a little sloppy.

Processing is perfect for the subject, and really has captured the aesthetics of paintings of that period, especially van Utrecht.

The shape of the window catchlight is weird somehow. Can't quite put my finger on it.

I'd normally slag off something that's a copy of something else, but the detail, back story you've created, and the faithfulness and obvious research make it more of a homage than a mere copy.
 
David,

thanks for taking the time to look at my shot once again - it's been hanging around the forum like a bad smell over the last few years, so you've probably seen it a few times...

I'm also pleased that you feel I've got "under the skin" of the Vanitas Tradition - I'm especially happy that you picked up elements that reminded you of Adriaen van Utrecht, as he was certainly on my "influences list" - though I'll also admit to shamelessly plundering elements from various banketje and ontbijtjes by Pieter Claesz, Willem Kalf and Willem Claeszoon Heda amongst others...

I definitely agree with the clipped corner on the bible, it's one (of many) slight compositional tweaks i'd make, should I go for a re-shoot on a similar theme.

It's interesting you pick up on the window catchlight, because it's also something that has troubled me - though i'd been fretting more on the colour temperature not feeling right for the early morning light it was supposed to be - however, mentioning the shape has now got me thinking - perhaps what is jarring to me is that the window shape is not right - I think I need a taller window, with smaller glazing panels - time for a rethink on that one as well...

Once again, thanks for taking the time to give me a little feedback on this image - it's been a long, on-going project, and it's taken quite a while in it's evolution to get to this point - and I can't see this being the final step in the process - though it may take me a while to take the next step, because when I build the set it often takes me days of faffing around, tweaking the setup of all the items (which also makes it all the more frustrating when you end up doing something silly like clipping the corner of the bible! D'ohh!!)
 
I've nothing much to add, but at this size (what I assume is) the quill pen is difficult to make out as such. Perhaps place it to fall partially on the open book, or make it otherwise more visible.
 
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