The Consequences of Flooding

[gramps]

So the ABI is saying that property liable to flooding this year possibly won't be able to get insurance cover next year and that we should all be paying a premium on our insurance in order to cover those with property on areas prone to flooding - or that the taxpayer should foot the bill for damages to property subject to flooding.
So is it the responsibility of the majority to financially support those who are in property prone to flooding ... what do you think?

 

[crofter]

If I ever get flooded you're all in a world of crap, 1500 ft up on a steep hillside, it just goes past the door, I don't see why I should pay more but you can borrow a bucket.

 

[munch]

I think there should be 4th option get the developers to pay, when they build houses on flood plains

 

[Yv]

I think there should be 4th option get the developers to pay, when they build houses on flood plains

hmmm, might be a problem with houses that are 50, 100, even 200 years old, and probably didn't flood previously, before so much of the country was concreted over :shrug:

 

[treeman]

before so much of the country was concreted over :shrug:

You're quite right, that is the exact problem, nothing to do with abnormal rainfall, there's just hardly anywhere for it to go any more :shrug:

So which developers do we go for, the ones that starting building like crazy in the 50-60's and then the ones now who continue now?

Or do we blame the government for allowing the population to rise to an unsustainable level that creates the demand for housing?


I could go on........

 

[Bristolian]

If I ever get flooded you're all in a world of crap, 1500 ft up on a steep hillside, it just goes past the door, I don't see why I should pay more but you can borrow a bucket.

PMSL

 

[gramps]

I think there should be 4th option get the developers to pay, when they build houses on flood plains

Of course they have to be granted permission.

 

[Nod]

I have a little sympathy for those who have been flooded but many of them have in some way asked for it! Those who live on a flood plain - hmmmm, there's a clue there somewhere! And villages with names like (for instance) Harbertonford - again, a clue.

It always amazes me how many people keep their large TVs on the floor (despite there often being a stand in shot...). "Yeah, the water came up to about 6" deep all over and we've lost everything." No! Your carpets are shot, as are any soft furnishings at floor level but the chances are that there was some warning (even if it was just the fact that it had been persisting down all day) that water levels may rise.

Of course the abnormal rainfall has a LOT to do with the problem. The extra concrete (and tarmac etc) has exacerbated the problem but to say that the rain has nothing to do with it is plain wrong!
Even back in the '60s, there was flooding - some towns took action back then and built flood defences to reduce the problems but even these are now barely able to cope with sustained heavy rain. Developers (and planners) should not now be allowed to build where flooding is or is expected to be a problem (flood plains etc).

How is overpopulation the goverment's fault? Surely breeding is down to the couple involved rather than Whitehall? IIRC, contraception is available free from FPCs (now in NHS walk-in centres I think) so cost shouldn't be a factor in deciding on that, although some religions frown upon it (so we could blame them!).

To some extent, we can blame smokers these days! Now it's forbidden to smoke in pubs, there's almost always a small crown of people outside on the pavement poluting the atmosphere (yup, ex-smoker!) then littering the street. Or, to avoid littering, lobbing the tab end down a rain gulley. Doesn't take long for those gulleys to get clogged and any large quantities of rain then wash straight over them and further down the road. Councils could clean the gulleys out more often but who wants to pay for that (and the lorries etc)? Especially at this time of year, they're hard pushed to keep up with nature's bounty of falling leaves..

If you want to live next to that pretty babbling brook, fine but don't expect nanny to pick up the pieces when it turns from the pretty babbler into a raging torrent!

 

[TriggerHappy]

Haha great post, Nod!

 

[viv1969]

You're quite right, that is the exact problem, nothing to do with abnormal rainfall, there's just hardly anywhere for it to go any more :shrug:

So which developers do we go for, the ones that starting building like crazy in the 50-60's and then the ones now who continue now?

Or do we blame the government for allowing the population to rise to an unsustainable level that creates the demand for housing?


I could go on........

Less that 8% of the UK is urbanised. MUCH less than everyone seems to think. And urbanised isn't the same as "built on". Less than 1.5% of the UK is built on.

 

[Russ77]

OK, increased concrete/tarmac covering will heighten the risk of localised flooding but but how the hell does it affect a river bursting it's banks?

Rain falls on the hills/mountains, then runs through natural waterways which meet up at the main river, the river can't cope with the extra water and burts it banks flooding the surrounding area......... don't see much involvement with concrete & tarmac in that chain of events.......

Developers need to stop building on known flood plains and/or areas that are likely to flood but then the local planning offices need to ensure there's a low/no flood risk too.

I don't think flooding is a new thing, there are just more people living in the areas that flood and the media is a lot more on the ball now too.

 

[steve burnett]

I have a little sympathy for those who have been flooded but many of them have in some way asked for it! Those who live on a flood plain - hmmmm, there's a clue there somewhere! And villages with names like (for instance) Harbertonford - again, a clue.

It always amazes me how many people keep their large TVs on the floor (despite there often being a stand in shot...). "Yeah, the water came up to about 6" deep all over and we've lost everything." No! Your carpets are shot, as are any soft furnishings at floor level but the chances are that there was some warning (even if it was just the fact that it had been persisting down all day) that water levels may rise.

Of course the abnormal rainfall has a LOT to do with the problem. The extra concrete (and tarmac etc) has exacerbated the problem but to say that the rain has nothing to do with it is plain wrong!
Even back in the '60s, there was flooding - some towns took action back then and built flood defences to reduce the problems but even these are now barely able to cope with sustained heavy rain. Developers (and planners) should not now be allowed to build where flooding is or is expected to be a problem (flood plains etc).

How is overpopulation the goverment's fault? Surely breeding is down to the couple involved rather than Whitehall? IIRC, contraception is available free from FPCs (now in NHS walk-in centres I think) so cost shouldn't be a factor in deciding on that, although some religions frown upon it (so we could blame them!).

To some extent, we can blame smokers these days! Now it's forbidden to smoke in pubs, there's almost always a small crown of people outside on the pavement poluting the atmosphere (yup, ex-smoker!) then littering the street. Or, to avoid littering, lobbing the tab end down a rain gulley. Doesn't take long for those gulleys to get clogged and any large quantities of rain then wash straight over them and further down the road. Councils could clean the gulleys out more often but who wants to pay for that (and the lorries etc)? Especially at this time of year, they're hard pushed to keep up with nature's bounty of falling leaves..

If you want to live next to that pretty babbling brook, fine but don't expect nanny to pick up the pieces when it turns from the pretty babbler into a raging torrent!

 

[Headless Lois]

I have a little sympathy for those who have been flooded but many of them have in some way asked for it! Those who live on a flood plain - hmmmm, there's a clue there somewhere! And villages with names like (for instance) Harbertonford - again, a clue.

It always amazes me how many people keep their large TVs on the floor (despite there often being a stand in shot...). "Yeah, the water came up to about 6" deep all over and we've lost everything." No! Your carpets are shot, as are any soft furnishings at floor level but the chances are that there was some warning (even if it was just the fact that it had been persisting down all day) that water levels may rise.

Of course the abnormal rainfall has a LOT to do with the problem. The extra concrete (and tarmac etc) has exacerbated the problem but to say that the rain has nothing to do with it is plain wrong!
Even back in the '60s, there was flooding - some towns took action back then and built flood defences to reduce the problems but even these are now barely able to cope with sustained heavy rain. Developers (and planners) should not now be allowed to build where flooding is or is expected to be a problem (flood plains etc).

How is overpopulation the goverment's fault? Surely breeding is down to the couple involved rather than Whitehall? IIRC, contraception is available free from FPCs (now in NHS walk-in centres I think) so cost shouldn't be a factor in deciding on that, although some religions frown upon it (so we could blame them!).

To some extent, we can blame smokers these days! Now it's forbidden to smoke in pubs, there's almost always a small crown of people outside on the pavement poluting the atmosphere (yup, ex-smoker!) then littering the street. Or, to avoid littering, lobbing the tab end down a rain gulley. Doesn't take long for those gulleys to get clogged and any large quantities of rain then wash straight over them and further down the road. Councils could clean the gulleys out more often but who wants to pay for that (and the lorries etc)? Especially at this time of year, they're hard pushed to keep up with nature's bounty of falling leaves..

If you want to live next to that pretty babbling brook, fine but don't expect nanny to pick up the pieces when it turns from the pretty babbler into a raging torrent!

Having been flooded (and we do not live on a flood plain) I can assure you that water (in our case sewerage) rushing into your home can happen VERY quickly. We were busy trying to stop water coming in the front door, turned round to find it coming up through our floor boards.
Now, maybe we should've spent the whole day moving all of our possessions upstairs, on the off chance, but having never flooded, and never expected to flood we didn't quite know the protocol. Same goes for all of our flooded neighbours.
0-12 inches of water was VERY fast. We moved some stuff (and of course we didn't plonk stuff into water, for the insurance) but actually, by the time water's coming in you are way too late to start moving things about.

One day later, when we turned up for the 'clean up' at the same time as the people appointed by the insurance company, we were shocked that essentially, if it was downstairs, and the water touched it, it was ruined - they asked if we were 'attached' to any of our stuff before ordering a skip to put it all in.
It is really, really shocking to lose half your stuff in one go. And then not be able to live in your house for months whilst it dries, the floorboards get replaced, everything has to be dried out, replastered, replaced.
We were really lucky to have insurance (unlike our next door neighbours), and we are even more lucky that we are not deemed, currently, to live in an area at risk from flooding, and can still get insurance.

 

[AJQS]

Having been flooded (and we do not live on a flood plain) I can assure you that water (in our case sewerage) rushing into your home can happen VERY quickly. We were busy trying to stop water coming in the front door, turned round to find it coming up through our floor boards.
Now, maybe we should've spent the whole day moving all of our possessions upstairs, on the off chance, but having never flooded, and never expected to flood we didn't quite know the protocol. Same goes for all of our flooded neighbours.
0-12 inches of water was VERY fast. We moved some stuff (and of course we didn't plonk stuff into water, for the insurance) but actually, by the time water's coming in you are way too late to start moving things about.

One day later, when we turned up for the 'clean up' at the same time as the people appointed by the insurance company, we were shocked that essentially, if it was downstairs, and the water touched it, it was ruined - they asked if we were 'attached' to any of our stuff before ordering a skip to put it all in.
It is really, really shocking to lose half your stuff in one go. And then not be able to live in your house for months whilst it dries, the floorboards get replaced, everything has to be dried out, replastered, replaced.
We were really lucky to have insurance (unlike our next door neighbours), and we are even more lucky that we are not deemed, currently, to live in an area at risk from flooding, and can still get insurance.

There is a major difference between living somewhere like that were rapid flooding is incredibly unlikely to living on a flood plain with a whopping great river draining half the county within stone's throwing distance.

Every time it rains here we get the same old problem crop up - Pwllheli is built on reclaimed estuary and uses two sets of tidal gates to stop the town from flooding by the sea - of course when it's rained and both rivers feeding into the gates are swollen, the rivers back up and flood the place anyway at high tide. Now I would have little sympathy for those living along the course of those rivers, but contrast that with Llanberis which was devastated on Thursday by 2 raging mountain streams that burst their banks, well that just had never happened before, and not a flood plain in sight! They get a whole lot of sympathy there.

 

[gramps]

I think that if you knowingly chose to live on a 'flood plain' then you should accept the risks of being flooded and possibly of even not being able to insure against the eventual damage.
However in locations that have never seen floods it is a different issue and you have to feel very sorry for those who are involved.
What does bug me is this:-

• Insurance companies who take the money but then don't want to pay out.
• People who don't insure and then expect others to pick up the tab.

I can feel as sorry as the next person for damage caused by flooding but what about honouring your obligations and taking responsibility for your own actions?

 

[Yv]

OK, increased concrete/tarmac covering will heighten the risk of localised flooding but but how the hell does it affect a river bursting it's banks?

Rain falls on the hills/mountains, then runs through natural waterways which meet up at the main river, the river can't cope with the extra water and burts it banks flooding the surrounding area......... don't see much involvement with concrete & tarmac in that chain of events.......

Developers need to stop building on known flood plains and/or areas that are likely to flood but then the local planning offices need to ensure there's a low/no flood risk too.

I don't think flooding is a new thing, there are just more people living in the areas that flood and the media is a lot more on the ball now too.

I dont think anyone is saying that urbanisation is the only factor, it is quite obviously not, but it is a factor that was less relevant 100 years ago, especially in more built up areas. We live at the 'top' of the valley that is 'London' but partway down an smaller contributary 'valley' [an old stream] and whilst so far we have never been flooded, the houses further down have been almost every winter and its getting worse for them as more people further up the hill concrete over everything to build driveways, extentions etc - cant even blame the water companies this time, they have already done a load of drains improvement to try and help them cope with the excess. :shrug: Mind you, the original developers, some 60 yrs ago, probably didn't help with the layout of the road... the houses at the bottom of our road run across the hill, acting as natural barrier to the water...DOH! :bonk:

Of course building on flood plains was always going to be an issue and there are plenty of fingers that can be pointed if the desire was there and if it would achieve anything. On current going rates, seems no one is willing to point too hard or stand up and be counted.... :|

 

[Nod]

Anna, as I said, I do have some sympathy for those in situations like yours - it's the people who live in known flood risk areas and who take no precautions against it when they know it's a distinct possibility.

I'd be interested to know what caused the foul water drain back-up that caused your flooding. If it was a blocked drain. what caused that? Or has someone moved their surface water drain so it goes into the sewer and has overloaded the system? Any building work gone on locally - extensions etc? Many builders wash out their mixers etc and pour the water down a handy drain, where it can set...

I sincerely hope that your insurance works properly and that your temporary accommodation is properly suitable. I also hope that you haven't thrown away any old prints of photographs that may have got wet - at an early time in their existance, they were in a bath so are more than likely waterproof. I also hope that your insurance company doesn't load you too much in the future despite your house now obviously being at risk from flooding.

 

[posiview]

Voted no.

What next, collective support for insurance provided in areas with a high burglary rate?

Regards.

 

[Headless Lois]

Anna, as I said, I do have some sympathy for those in situations like yours - it's the people who live in known flood risk areas and who take no precautions against it when they know it's a distinct possibility.

I'd be interested to know what caused the foul water drain back-up that caused your flooding. If it was a blocked drain. what caused that? Or has someone moved their surface water drain so it goes into the sewer and has overloaded the system? Any building work gone on locally - extensions etc? Many builders wash out their mixers etc and pour the water down a handy drain, where it can set...

I sincerely hope that your insurance works properly and that your temporary accommodation is properly suitable. I also hope that you haven't thrown away any old prints of photographs that may have got wet - at an early time in their existance, they were in a bath so are more than likely waterproof. I also hope that your insurance company doesn't load you too much in the future despite your house now obviously being at risk from flooding.

This was 5 years ago, in the great floods of 2007 as we know them locally.

As it happens, I possibly do now live in area a lot more at risk of flooding - there used to plenty of drainage as behind us was people's gardens (old houses, lots of big gardens). The council bought the land and built houses and flats, so the water that built up in our garden had nowhere to drain to.
All of the roadside ditches locally were clogged up, as they'd introduced a policy of not clearing them, so it was a combination of events that just overloaded the drainage system.

I get very edgy when we have a lot of rain like we are currently!

 

[Forbiddenbiker]

I heard on the news this morning that they are looking for a Loan from our government to top up the pool of funds allocated to flood victims until such a time the pool value can be increased by ongoing premiums, which now are costed more accurately for the higher risk of our new weather patterns ...it sounded more like they where taking responsibility just needed some help.

Is this wrong?

If it isnt, Why the heck the cant go to the banks like the rest of us and pay a premium for their poor/greedy business modelling is beyond me though...although it will just cost us more I suppose ..no foresight, poor risk assessment and probably complacency and profit hunting has caused this hole, we should not have to fill it.

 

[Headless Lois]

Judging by what's happening in Oxford, am going to find out pretty soon just how much at risk of flooding we remain <weep>

 

[viv1969]

Judging by what's happening in Oxford, am going to find out pretty soon just how much at risk of flooding we remain <weep>

I wish you and yours luck Anna.....I hope you ride it out unscathed.

 

[Yv]

Judging by what's happening in Oxford, am going to find out pretty soon just how much at risk of flooding we remain <weep>

good luck, I hope it passes you by without so much as a soggy doormat

 

[fracster]

Don`t see why the rest of us should subsidise the people who want to live next to a river or on a flood plain.

 

[Headless Lois]

Well, on the plus side, if we flood this time round we have one less dog and one less cat to try and keep dry, and we can always just move into the studio (not that I have thought about this a lot, oh no)

 

[viv1969]

Well, on the plus side, if we flood this time round we have one less dog and one less cat to try and keep dry, and we can always just move into the studio (not that I have thought about this a lot, oh no)

Sorry...you won't take the cat and the dog?

 

[big soft moose]

I voted no - but i do think that the profiteering barstewards at the insurance companies should take some of the hit, If someone pays insurance for years and years and years without a claim, its not reasonable to double their premium or refuse them cover because they finally have to use their policy (which goes for any insurance not just flood risk)

 

[Yv]

Sorry...you won't take the cat and the dog?

I think she meant that there was a cat and dog last time that are not an issue this time as, pressumably, they have since departed this mortal coil. There may still be dogs and cats in the Headless Household, just 1 of each less than last time they were flooded.

 

[Headless Lois]

I think she meant that there was a cat and dog last time that are not an issue this time as, pressumably, they have since departed this mortal coil. There may still be dogs and cats in the Headless Household, just 1 of each less than last time they were flooded.

yes, 5 years ago we had two of each, now we have one of each. We won't leave them behind!

A

 

[big soft moose]

the other weird thing is that as a tenant I only have contents insurance, but my insurer didnt bat an eyelid when I told them we live at the head of a valley with a stream running past the house (on saturday we had about a foot of water running down the drive, but only a cm or so in the kitchen) I was explicitly clear with them about the risk and it only increased my premium by about a fiver.

my landlord on the otherhand finds it incredibly difficult to get house insurance on the property and has had to exclude flood risk from the policy so that he can get other cover :shrug:

 

[Headless Lois]

Our contents claim absolutely paled into insignificance compared to the buildings claim. You would have though we'd had a whole new house built!

 

[OutLore]

You missed an option off: It doesn't matter which way you feel, we'll all end up footing the bill one way or another.

 

[SpikeK6]

Our contents claim absolutely paled into insignificance compared to the buildings claim. You would have though we'd had a whole new house built!

More times than not its harder and more expensive to repair than to build new, building new you do things once, with a repair they would have first to gut the place before putting back.

 

[Nod]

Hopefully the sun and lack of rain we're having at the moment will help with the region's (indeed, the Country's) drying out. It's bloody cold though - although that means the air is dry, it could cause freezing damage on top of the flood problems. I hope any flood victims who have had to leave their homes have either turned off their water supply or managed to get some sort of heating to prevent burst pipes etc.

 

[big soft moose]

it also unfortunately means that the water in the ground will be freezing so inaddition to flood damage we'll be seeing land slides and cliff falls from frost heave... happy happy joy joy

 

[TriggerHappy]

it also unfortunately means that the water in the ground will be freezing so inaddition to flood damage we'll be seeing land slides and cliff falls from frost heave... happy happy joy joy

Not to mention the damage it will do to roads!