The budget

[Cobra]

My guess is because it can be heavily taxed.

That's true, it was a really cheap fuel at one time reserved for buses lorries and taxi's.
(Who remembers the old Granada diesel's? you could hear them coming for miles and "see" them long after they passed )
So get a certain faction "hooked" on diesel and whack the prices right up

I dunno if people really care to be fair about other peoples health though do they?

Fair point and all that, although of course there are the "green" faction who would ban "everything" for the sake of the children

 

[Mr Bump]

I genuinely think diesel is a good product and there is a place for it along with the correct technology which we have to keep emissions down.

The problem we have with it is its now sold as a premium product and petrol is considered the poor underdog and there is snob factor.

So someone who has a few quid bimbles around town and drops the kids off at school in an Audi or BMW diesel as only poor people buy petrols.
When the smaller petrol powered town cars are much less polluting, quieter, cost a lot less to make and purchase and are around town pretty efficient.

Also factor in that diesel cars take longer to warm up and about town petrol is better but, they are not as .......premium

PS I have a Citroen C3 1.4 PETROL and and its great, it does 45mpg all day long

 

[Cobra]

I genuinely think diesel is a good product and there is a place for it along with the correct technology which we have to keep emissions down.

The problem we have with it is its now sold as a premium product and petrol is considered the poor underdog and there is snob factor.

So someone who has a few quid bimbles around town and drops the kids off at school in an Audi or BMW diesel as only poor people buy petrols.
When the smaller petrol powered town cars are much less polluting, quieter, cost a lot less to make and purchase and are around town pretty efficient.

Also factor in that diesel cars take longer to warm up and about town petrol is better but, they are not as .......premium

PS I have a Citroen C3 1.4 PETROL and and its great, it does 45mpg all day long

I run both TBH, I have a diesel Isuzu 4x4 for work, out of necessity rather than status, I drive off road a fair bit.
And do around a 1000 miles a week to and from site(s).
I also own a V6 Hyundai couple that I drive for fun, as for MPG, I don't even think about that, as it would scare me
The 4x4 is a company vehicle I'm glad I don't foot the bill on that one

 

[Byker28i]

PS I have a Citroen C3 1.4 PETROL and and its great, it does 45mpg all day long

My 2.2 diesel turbo does that 1500 miles through France and back at 45mpg. If I'm gentle and prepared to cruise at 70 it'll do around 60mpg

 

[Byker28i]

The 4x4 is a company vehicle I'm glad I don't foot the bill on that one

Just have an old one - £230 for the TVR 4.2litre V8 petrol

 

[Mr Bump]

My 2.2 diesel turbo does that 1500 miles through France and back at 45mpg. If I'm gentle and prepared to cruise at 70 it'll do around 60mpg

That's may be true but how much over the top of say the petrol equivalent did you pay for that economy?

 

[Byker28i]

That's may be true but how much over the top of say the petrol equivalent did you pay for that economy?

It replaced a 2.0 petrol primera that did 24mpg at best £200 a year less road tax, insurance was halved so it's another £200 a year saving and best of all I'm saving over £100 a month in fuel. First year of ownership I've saved £1500 I would have spent otherwise, which is quite a surprising amount off the monthly outlay.

Bought it at one year old so it already had lost over £8k in depreciation

 

[dejongj]

I genuinely think diesel is a good product and there is a place for it along with the correct technology which we have to keep emissions down.

The problem we have with it is its now sold as a premium product and petrol is considered the poor underdog and there is snob factor.

So someone who has a few quid bimbles around town and drops the kids off at school in an Audi or BMW diesel as only poor people buy petrols.
When the smaller petrol powered town cars are much less polluting, quieter, cost a lot less to make and purchase and are around town pretty efficient.

Also factor in that diesel cars take longer to warm up and about town petrol is better but, they are not as .......premium

PS I have a Citroen C3 1.4 PETROL and and its great, it does 45mpg all day long

What a load of pretentious codswallop. A petrol only for the poor? Where on earth do you get that from.

 

[Cobra]

A petrol only for the poor?

Have you seen the price of Diesel recently?

 

[dejongj]

Have you seen the price of Diesel recently?

My petrol car takes a minimum of RON98

 

[Llamaman]

Your car runs on rum?!

 

[Cobra]

My petrol car takes a minimum of RON98

That's certainly not for poor people

I often wonder if it really makes a difference TBH or just a marketing ploy.

 

[Keith W]

Well I am poor, especially after my visit to the flooring shop



Don't even like fishing

 

[dejongj]

Still does 40mpg

 

[Cobra]

Still does 40mpg

As an aside, the garage A5 southbound, just before J9 had diesel and petrol at the same price £1.15 (odd)
This morning when I went past there just after 5am.
Although it was a tad early, I don't think I dreamt that

 

[SFTPhotography]

I genuinely think diesel is a good product and there is a place for it along with the correct technology which we have to keep emissions down.

The problem we have with it is its now sold as a premium product and petrol is considered the poor underdog and there is snob factor.

So someone who has a few quid bimbles around town and drops the kids off at school in an Audi or BMW diesel as only poor people buy petrols.
When the smaller petrol powered town cars are much less polluting, quieter, cost a lot less to make and purchase and are around town pretty efficient.

Also factor in that diesel cars take longer to warm up and about town petrol is better but, they are not as .......premium

PS I have a Citroen C3 1.4 PETROL and and its great, it does 45mpg all day long

Not sure. The really well off won't buy a wretched diesel but a v8 or v12 petrol. Mercedes ml25cdi or a v8 range rover. Diesel 5 series or a proper m5...

 

[eeyore]

Just wondering how much would this would this welfare cut back really save?

 

[POAH]

You are assuming a convention family model with two resident parents. Now take into account separated parents, parents that were never in a relationship but still managed to create a baby, divorced and remarried parents with extended step families and you may realise how difficult evaluating it based on the combined salaries of the two parents is.

it would be the family that has custody of the children

 

[POAH]

Breeding lots of children from poor backgrounds doesn't stimulate the economy. Clever able people tend to breed clever able children that get good jobs. Stupid incapable people breed stupid incapable children. Stupid incapable people have crap jobs and little money. Clever able people tend to have good jobs and lots of money.

Giving stupid incapable people extra funds to enable them to breed stupid incapable broods just makes the problem worse.

Immigration is a red herring here. The crux of the problem is my point above.

Hi Dr Thomson here, work in a supermarket for a s*** wage. not all clever people are able to get well paid jobs due to various reasons. wealfare isn't just there for the stupid people.

 

[POAH]

It p***es me off that people expect society to pay for their 3rd and 4th kid. Personally I would have capped it at one.

but society doesn't pay for their children.

 

[POAH]

If you are referring to Child Tax Credit here, you are wrong. The threshold is on the 'household' income and not on the individuals income.
Neither my wife or I earn over £50k individually and we get nothing for our only son.

child benefit not tax credits

 

[akr]

Breeding lots of children from poor backgrounds doesn't stimulate the economy. Clever able people tend to breed clever able children that get good jobs. Stupid incapable people breed stupid incapable children. Stupid incapable people have crap jobs and little money. Clever able people tend to have good jobs and lots of money.

Giving stupid incapable people extra funds to enable them to breed stupid incapable broods just makes the problem worse.

A clever society allows the most intelligent and able to rise to their potential irrespective of background or upbringing. A society like the one you seemingly advocate keeps the status quote based in inequality. Great stuff.

£350 a month for travel. Where to? I've never spent more than £100 on petrol or diesel and running costs and accounting for depreciation of the vehicles value, still wouldn't bring it up to £175. As for childcare costs, if you can't afford for one parent to give up work and look after the kids, then you can't afford kids and should only have them when you can afford it. Worked for my parents and same for me. Yes we recieved child benefit, but it hardly makes up for the loss of a wage.

London travel card zone 1-4 is £177 per month per person - very common in London and generally more expensive to move closer to work, lots of people move further out and have even higher costs.

 

[dejongj]

Hi Dr Thomson here, work in a supermarket for a s*** wage. not all clever people are able to get well paid jobs due to various reasons. wealfare isn't just there for the stupid people.

Get a different job then, or accept the choices you make. But why does the state have to pay for topping you up?

 

[viv1969]

Where does the funding come from for all the free childcare hours?.....General wondering.

 

[akr]

Get a different job then, or accept the choices you make. But why does the state have to pay for topping you up?

This isn't directed at you but I can't believe what a hard time Poah is getting on this thread. A parent who wants the best for his children, of all the things we 'waste' raised taxes on, this surely is far from the worse.

And back to you point, it's easy to say get another job, by which I guess you mean a better paid one, but of course it's not that easy especially if you find yourself in an unfortunate situation.

 

[POAH]

Get a different job then, or accept the choices you make. But why does the state have to pay for topping you up?

you don't quite get how hard it is to get a job do you. don't you think I would be in one if I could - It was particularly difficult to have a job when I was caring for my mum who was dying of bowel cancer. I suggest you have bit more thought before you start being such an ST4.

The state gives money to help people back to work, it would cost the goverment a lot more if people didn't work.

 

[Blank_Canvas]

Diesel in general is worse for the environment than petrol because of the high level of particulates it produces, there is established evidence that diesel smoke in built up areas is becoming increasingly damaging to respiratory health.

Old diesels yes, new diesels no !

 

[dejongj]

This isn't directed at you but I can't believe what a hard time Poah is getting on this thread. A parent who wants the best for his children, of all the things we 'waste' raised taxes on, this surely is far from the worse.

And back to you point, it's easy to say get another job, by which I guess you mean a better paid one, but of course it's not that easy especially if you find yourself in an unfortunate situation.

It isn't personal towards poah but you can't have it both ways in my opinion. Well you could but that has gone on too long.

The changes being put in place are fair and gradual.

I'm a firm believer in personal responsibility. We should take responsibility for the choices we make, and for how we change our fortunes.

If it suits someone with a doctorate to work in a supermarket then that is absolutely fine by me. But that is a choice. Likewise if the doctorate is obtained in a field that is just not being valued then so be it, time to either accept or do something else.

I'm not sure why that is seen as giving someone a hard time. But hey opinions differ and I'm ok with that. I'm confident some will disagree with me.

 

[POAH]

If it suits someone with a doctorate to work in a supermarket then that is absolutely fine by me. But that is a choice. Likewise if the doctorate is obtained in a field that is just not being valued then so be it, time to either accept or do something else.

it doesn't suit, its a need. you don't get money if you don't work

 

[dejongj]

you don't quite get how hard it is to get a job do you. don't you think I would be in one if I could - It was particularly difficult to have a job when I was caring for my mum who was dying of bowel cancer. I suggest you have bit more thought before you start being such an ST4.

The state gives money to help people back to work, it would cost the goverment a lot more if people didn't work.

Which is absolutely fine, but those are the choices you make. Of course your choice is limited if you have other matters to focus on, but you know what that is the way it is.

I think it is quite pathetic to accuse someone else of needing to have more though for what is effectively your choice. I have sympathy with it, and I respect your choice, however that doesn't change my political opinion.

I also don't get why you call it being an ST4. It is my own opinion, and not just that it is also supported by a majority vote . There was a 20% difference compared to the next largest party.

 

[dejongj]

it doesn't suit, its a need. you don't get money if you don't work

Well, we all know that isn't quite true. However I respect your choice to work instead.

 

[akr]

It isn't personal towards poah but you can't have it both ways in my opinion. Well you could but that has gone on too long.

The changes being put in place are fair and gradual.

I'm a firm believer in personal responsibility. We should take responsibility for the choices we make, and for how we change our fortunes.

If it suits someone with a doctorate to work in a supermarket then that is absolutely fine by me. But that is a choice. Likewise if the doctorate is obtained in a field that is just not being valued then so be it, time to either accept or do something else.

I'm not sure why that is seen as giving someone a hard time. But hey opinions differ and I'm ok with that. I'm confident some will disagree with me.

I actually agree with most of that but.....sometimes it's not about personal responsibility when circumstances arise that are out of your control. when circumstances change for people it can take a long time to get back on track and or that may no longer be possible - I think a lot of people think well tough luck but my view is we should try and help people who fall into those situations as much as possible, and certainly there children, whom at their early stages in life cannot take personal responsibility and that seems to be ignored regularly.

I think on paper sometimes these things look ok, but then when you hear real world stories you get a different view.

As for someone disagreeing with you, this is OOF on TP, if someone didn't you'd be doing something wrong

 

[POAH]

Well, we all know that isn't quite true. However I respect your choice to work instead.

I'm curious to know why you think my comment isn't true? if I didn't work we wouldn't get tax credits

 

[POAH]

Which is absolutely fine, but those are the choices you make. Of course your choice is limited if you have other matters to focus on, but you know what that is the way it is.

I'm pretty sure my mum getting bowel cancer wasn't my choice

 

[dejongj]

I actually agree with most of that but.....sometimes it's not about personal responsibility when circumstances arise that are out of your control. when circumstances change for people it can take a long time to get back on track and or that may no longer be possible - I think a lot of people think well tough luck but my view is we should try and help people who fall into those situations as much as possible, and certainly there children, whom at their early stages in life cannot take personal responsibility and that seems to be ignored regularly.

I think on paper sometimes these things look ok, but then when you hear real world stories you get a different view.

As for someone disagreeing with you, this is OOF on TP, if someone didn't you'd be doing something wrong

Absolutely, we don't always get hand dealt. But yes s*** happens, and we have to deal with it. It will happen to us all at some stage, and nobody can guarantee we make the right choices.

However they still remain our own choices.

I'm still thinking on how to deal with the potential 7.5% reduction in my income come next year. Definitely not something I saw coming under this government, and find it surprising that it is not really reported today. labour is playing a media blinder with BBC happily playing along with people in tears and all sorts. It's not all so one sided in this budget.

 

[dejongj]

I'm curious to know why you think my comment isn't true? if I didn't work we wouldn't get tax credits

If you don't work you'll still get money. That was the point I was responding to. And I respect you for not going down that road.

 

[dejongj]

I'm pretty sure my mum getting bowel cancer wasn't my choice

And I didn't say it was, not sure why you think that is what I suggest?

 

[POAH]

If you don't work you'll still get money. That was the point I was responding to. And I respect you for not going down that road.

not everybody does. I wasn't entitled to any

 

[POAH]

And I didn't say it was, not sure why you think that is what I suggest?

you said

"Which is absolutely fine, but those are the choices you make"


most of my life for the past 5 years hasn't been through choice which you and others in this thread don't seem to understand (not just talking about me here). It just seems so 1D to a lot of people who clearly have never had to deal with anything that requires help from the state.

 

[dejongj]

you said

"Which is absolutely fine, but those are the choices you make"


most of my life for the past 5 years hasn't been through choice which you and others in this thread don't seem to understand (not just talking about me here). It just seems so 1D to a lot of people who clearly have never had to deal with anything that requires help from the state.

I did indeed say that. And I also said that I respected your choice.

And again I don't get how you come to that conclusion. Not in this thread but plenty of other times have I suggested that benefits for a shorter period of time should go up considerably for a limited period of time.