The budget

POAH

POAH

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well done to osborne and his other rich tory chums for making the poor poorer and the rich richer.

£1100 worse off next year, £92 a month, or fuel and shopping for a week.

these people have no clue as to how the poor live
 
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I am going to go out and start collecting firewood, well I can't cut back any more :(
 
Its the "time delayed" things that annoy me, sure, he increased the minimum wage, that should encourage a few more people back to work,
but not "realistically" for 5 years,
By which time of course £9 / hr may not be that much after all.

The contoversial one IMO is
Families with more than two children will not receive tax credits or housing benefit for their third or subsequent children under a fundamental change to the welfare system.
TBH I agree with this, hopefully it should stop people knocking out loads of kids to claim unrealistic amounts every month.
There are stories every week about the scroungers, who manage to work the system, lets hope it cuts this down.
I know its not effective immediately, though.
Like all budgets there are good and bad
 
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Nit read much yet tbh....but anything that reduces tax cuts / incentives for having kids is fine by me.

Same for buy to let incentives.
 
Only seen the headlines but seemed pretty fair, the rich are certainly not better off... of course, we could adopt the Greek model?

Totally agree with tax credits on more than 2 kids, if you want more then you pay for them!

Not that i am one to jump on the green bandwagon but seeing as i am taxed to the hilt on fuel, pay tax to fly abroad and have all sorts of environmental taxes, its only fair the the biggest environmental impact (kids) is 'taxed' too
 
And of course that'll be 3 budgets this year, the one in April, this so called emergency budget, and of course we'll get one in the autumn too ;)
 
cambsno said:
Only seen the headlines but seemed pretty fair, the rich are certainly not better off... of course, we could adopt the Greek model?

Totally agree with tax credits on more than 2 kids, if you want more then you pay for them!

Not that i am one to jump on the green bandwagon but seeing as i am taxed to the hilt on fuel, pay tax to fly abroad and have all sorts of environmental taxes, its only fair the the biggest environmental impact (kids) is 'taxed' too
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as someone with 3 kids it will hit us hard. The extra cash is needed for Lynne's leave as she only gets SMP. I need to earn 6K more a year for it not to have any effect but I can't because I'm our child care. I fully understand the need to make cuts, but not to the detriment of those that can't afford it. I used to have a good job and this would not have affected me however I don't now. The change in income tax will make very little difference and certainly none to me because I don't earn enough. The stupidity of previous goverments in getting us into such a mess shouldn't be taken out of the people.

out of interest do you have kids?
 
Why does it matter if we have kids?
Have as many as you like....knock yourself out

All I ask is you pay for them yourself.
 
As far as I am aware the tax credit issue wont affect people who already have 3 or more children, it will only affect those born after April 2017
 
Keith W said:
As far as I am aware the tax credit issue wont affect people who already have 3 or more children, it will only affect those born after April 2017
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Damn
 
viv1969 said:
Why does it matter if we have kids?
Have as many as you like....knock yourself out

All I ask is you pay for them yourself.
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Can't agree more.
I had 2 kids because that's what we could afford, I did eventually go back to work, but that was a personal choice too not a necessity.
Never wanted to rely on handouts to bring up my kids.
 
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POAH said:
The stupidity of previous goverments in getting us into such a mess shouldn't be taken out of the people.
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So where do we get the money from? The money tree in the garden? We cannot just magic it.

FWIW I do have kids, 2 of them. The only issue i have with child benefit is that a family with 1 earner on 60k gets nothing, yet a family with 2 earning 49k each (so 98k) gets the full amount. IMO it should be scraped, and those struggling to pay for them should get clothing/food etc... provided so that it does benefit the child.
 
Child benefit has nothing to do with child tax credits, they are two different things
 
viv1969 said:
Why does it matter if we have kids?
Have as many as you like....knock yourself out

All I ask is you pay for them yourself.
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if you had kids you would think differently and actually understand how much this will hurt those that are poor. If we didn't get tax credits I would have to give up work, sell the house and move in with my dad probably because we couldn't afford to live. Its cheaper for the goverment to pay tax credits than it is to support someone with income support, housing benifit etc etc etc.

Even with the extra tax credits we get with our recent .3rd child we loose almost 50% of lynnes income before she went on maternaty leave. Adding a 1p to income tax on all bands would have provided more money and not affected people in the same way. There didn't appear to be anything in the budget that affected the well off was there, only making them richer
 
Keith W said:
Child benefit has nothing to do with child tax credits, they are two different things
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Isn't it all part and parcel though?
I've no idea TBH, my 2 are grown and have been earning their own wages for a few years now
 
Gremlin said:
Can't agree more.
I had 2 kids because that's what we could afford, I did eventually go back to work, but that was a personal choice too not a necessity.
Never wanted to rely on handouts to bring up my kids.
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I mostly agree. We have 2 kids and not had any more partly for financial reasons, but other reasons also. However people do find themselves in bad situations sometimes through no fault of their own - sickness, redundancy etc - not sure those apply in this case but there will be cases where it would apply and ultimately the children may end up punished.
 
Keith W said:
As far as I am aware the tax credit issue wont affect people who already have 3 or more children, it will only affect those born after April 2017
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its not just the 3rd child but the levels change which is what will hit us which is where we loose the money.
 
POAH said:
if you had kids you would think differently and actually understand how much this will hurt those that are poor. If we didn't get tax credits I would have to give up work, sell the house and move in with my dad probably because we couldn't afford to live. Its cheaper for the goverment to pay tax credits than it is to support someone with income support, housing benifit etc etc etc.

Even with the extra tax credits we get with our recent .3rd child we loose almost 50% of lynnes income before she went on maternaty leave. Adding a 1p to income tax on all bands would have provided more money and not affected people in the same way. There didn't appear to be anything in the budget that affected the well off was there, only making them richer
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so why did you choose to have a third child if you couldn't afford it ? - also you seem to afford camera kit, computers, and internet so you are hardly on the breadline
 
viv1969 said:
Why does it matter if we have kids?
Have as many as you like....knock yourself out

All I ask is you pay for them yourself.
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Sure, but you could say that about loads of things we are taxed for. If we only paid tax on things that interest us personally things won't work brilliantly.
 
Cobra said:
Isn't it all part and parcel though?
I've no idea TBH, my 2 are grown and have been earning their own wages for a few years now
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child benifit isn't part of tax credits and you have to apply separately. £20 for the first child and £16 for subsequent children per week.
 
akr said:
I mostly agree. We have 2 kids and not had any more partly for financial reasons, but other reasons also. However people do find themselves in bad situations sometimes through no fault of their own - sickness, redundancy etc - not sure those apply in this case but there will be cases where it would apply and ultimately the children may end up punished.
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Do understand what you are saying and hopefully there would be help for those that find themselves in that situation.
What annoys the hell out of me is those that have never worked in their lives who just churn out kids
often with different partners and see all these benefits as a right, get interviewed on the TV with a cigarette in one hand
and a top of the range mobile phone in the other.
As has been said find some other way of rather then cash to feed and clothe themselves
 
POAH said:
child benifit isn't part of tax credits and you have to apply separately. £20 for the first child and £16 for subsequent children per week.
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Ah Ok.
No idea what I got for our two, it was such a long time ago now.
But its still something that you can claim if you have kids?
 
big soft moose said:
so why did you choose to have a third child if you couldn't afford it ? - also you seem to afford camera kit, computers, and internet so you are hardly on the breadline
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I had to sell my camera gear when I was unemployed and I've had the same computer for years. I also used to have a decent job which let me purchase my camera gear in the first place.

I changed hours to compensate a little but we havent gone on holiday this year, we spend less on things that we used to and have to miss out on a lot of things too.
 
big soft moose said:
so why did you choose to have a third child if you couldn't afford it ? - also you seem to afford camera kit, computers, and internet so you are hardly on the breadline
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Way to go Pete make it real personal why don't you

These kinds of threads always bring out the best in people :rolleyes:

All I have to say is there but for the grace of God go I
 
Keith W said:
As far as I am aware the tax credit issue wont affect people who already have 3 or more children, it will only affect those born after April 2017
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Which is an incredibly fair way of doing it, those currently relying on government grants to top them up for their choices will not be penalised and the system will phase out automatically in a couple of decades...Can't be more fair than that....I would have gone in harder and applied the same rule for all children...

@POAH I don't understand you suggesting it doesn't hurt the more well off? Have you seen what they've done to the non-dom status? Have you seen what they've done to taxation of dividends....Damn it is going to hurt, hurt big time...Not happy at all with them and feel a little betrayed, definitely reviewing options to mitigate against the proposed changes.
 
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POAH said:
but we havent gone on holiday this year
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I think there is a lot of people in that situation, and people with full times jobs too.
TBH I couldn't tell you the last time I had a proper holiday.
 
POAH said:
only if you earn under 50k
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And I bet that is more than half the country,
What's the average salary £25K these days?
Seems rather a high threshold to me!
 
dejongj said:
Not happy at all with them and feel a little betrayed, definitely reviewing options to mitigate against the proposed changes.
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Yeah we all know who's fault that is :p
 
Cobra said:
Yeah we all know who's fault that is :p
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She would not have done this :kiss:

I'm surprised at the divide of the benefit cap as well, outside London it has gone down to £20K....Whilst fair, it still surprised me...
 
Cobra said:
And I bet that is more than half the country,
What's the average salary £25K these days?
Seems rather a high threshold to me!
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its so stupid because its only 50k for one person so two people can earn 49k each for a total of 98k but if someone earns 50k and their partner 12k they don't get it. the tories baffle me
 
BTW The roadtax grrrr what is this nonsense that cars over £40K pay a £310 per year supplement on top of the £140 for the first £500 years...Definitely (ok perhaps not definitely) not replacing my vehicle with something of equivalent value.....Currently first year was £640 with just £240 per year there after...Now it will go to £1,200 first year with £450 per year there after...I wonder what nice vehicles will be available for £39,999 and then dealer options i.e. off list price on top of it...

Ok first world problems, but still its not nice...
 
POAH said:
its so stupid because its only 50k for one person so two people can earn 49k each for a total of 98k but if someone earns 50k and their partner 12k they don't get it. the tories baffle me
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Get what though, child benefit or family tax credit?

I've got one kid which makes us eligible and we get naff all on family tax credit, only the child benefit.

I'm not complaining simply trying to understand. I have little to do with it, leave that to the Wife to sort out
 
POAH said:
its so stupid because its only 50k for one person so two people can earn 49k each for a total of 98k but if someone earns 50k and their partner 12k they don't get it. the tories baffle me
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Think it's 60 when u lose it. 50-60 you lose some. I totally agree. Very badly thought out and totally unfair
 
Breeding is a choice. ..never an accident.
Two seems more than fair to me.
 
dejongj said:
BTW The roadtax grrrr what is this nonsense that cars over £40K pay a £310 per year supplement on top of the £140 for the first £500 years...Definitely (ok perhaps not definitely) not replacing my vehicle with something of equivalent value.....Currently first year was £640 with just £240 per year there after...Now it will go to £1,200 first year with £450 per year there after...I wonder what nice vehicles will be available for £39,999 and then dealer options i.e. off list price on top of it...

Ok first world problems, but still its not nice...
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you polute = you pay
 
Gremlin said:
Do understand what you are saying and hopefully there would be help for those that find themselves in that situation.
What annoys the hell out of me is those that have never worked in their lives who just churn out kids
often with different partners and see all these benefits as a right, get interviewed on the TV with a cigarette in one hand
and a top of the range mobile phone in the other.
As has been said find some other way of rather then cash to feed and clothe themselves
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Sure I can understand feeling like that.

However I have 2 issues with that:

1) These 'factual reality' series demonising / mocking those on whatever form of benefit lead to people thinking and putting everyone in the same boat 'bloody scroungers etc' when I doubt this is the overall case.
2) Let's say someone does have multiple kids with different fathers / mothers etc, what you are saying is we should not give anything to the parent(s) but my concern is that you in effect punish the children. I would personally happily pay tax towards ensuring children get the best possible start in life (that might not be tax credits etc, but I would not want it limited by how many brothers and sisters they have). I would agree that people getting benefits like this it is grating if they have an iPhone 6 etc and the money is not put where it should - I guess the issue is that it would cost too much to police and administer checking where the money was spent.

I will happily admit I don't have enough understanding of the complexity's around these issues, how much it will affect people, how much revenue it will bring in etc but there are very real issue for people who are not scroungers etc and simply want to work and bring their children up well who are having / going to have real difficulties.
 
Mr Bump said:
you polute = you pay
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Wrong, it is not based on pollution....Pollution is a flat rate, value of the car makes it more expensive ;) Yet some suggest this is a budget for the rich...
 
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