The big Zeiss lens cap

chris malcolm

chris malcolm

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You know when you go out with a gang of photographers, get to the place, and everyone starts getting their tripods out. The gear snobs stroll around to see if any of the lesser mortals have brought something which could merit their admission to the elite, or perhaps a few moments of conversation. Your lens has an impressively big lump of glass on the front. That attracts their attention, and they walk towards you. Then they see the cheap name on the barrel, and with a patronising twtich of the eyebrows walk on.

I buy a lot of my stuff second hand. Second hand lenses often come with the wrong lens cap, just something handy which happened to fit. One of my big second hand lenses came with a big Zeiss lens cap. Of course that's not the name on the barrel, but I can easily drape the camera strap over that. It works really well. Of course they soon drift off when they find out I don't have a Zeiss lens, but I do get a few moments of friendly chat with one of the elite!
 
The elite are best ignored. Get Hanimex and Tokina lens caps to keep them away.

Note - I have owned great lenses from both of those manufacturers but elitists are not interested in things like that.


Steve.
 
chris malcolm said:
You know when you go out with a gang of photographers, get to the place, and everyone starts getting their tripods out.
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No... LOL What would be the point? Surely if loads of photographers go to the same place, and take the same shots, it would be an utter waste of time?

chris malcolm said:
The gear snobs stroll around to see if any of the lesser mortals have brought something which could merit their admission to the elite, or perhaps a few moments of conversation. Your lens has an impressively big lump of glass on the front. That attracts their attention, and they walk towards you. Then they see the cheap name on the barrel, and with a patronising twtich of the eyebrows walk on.

I buy a lot of my stuff second hand. Second hand lenses often come with the wrong lens cap, just something handy which happened to fit. One of my big second hand lenses came with a big Zeiss lens cap. Of course that's not the name on the barrel, but I can easily drape the camera strap over that. It works really well. Of course they soon drift off when they find out I don't have a Zeiss lens, but I do get a few moments of friendly chat with one of the elite!
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Elite? Wrong word... try "Wa****s".

There's only one measure of a photographer, and that is the imagery they produce. All else is the stupidity of camera club types who are childish enough to belive that equipment actually matters for some reason. A great photographer will produce great imagery with cheap equipment, but someone who's S**t will still produce s**t with expensive equipment. Garbage in, garbage out.

Why do you want to hang around with morons like this any way? Anyone who spends 3 grand on a lens for a miniature format like 35mm is a knob head.

Cameras are just tools... nothing more. I've never cleaned, or played with mine.. It's in a bag.. it gets used when it's needed and ignored when it;'s not... just like my socket set, or my iron... or my vacuum cleaner.

They're TOOLS!!!


Get out of the camera club crowd while you've still got some individuality left... they'll suck your creative soul right out of your body, and you'll start to believe the bo**ocks they tell you.


Run away.... fast... and far.
 
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Pookeyhead said:
Cameras are just tools... nothing more. I've never cleaned, or played with mine.. It's in a bag.. it gets used when it's needed and ignored when it;'s not... just like my socket set, or my iron... or my vacuum cleaner.
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Now we're wondering if that's a soldering iron or a clothes iron!


Steve.
 
Pookeyhead said:
Cameras are just tools... nothing more. I've never cleaned, or played with mine.. It's in a bag.. it gets used when it's needed and ignored when it;'s not... just like my socket set, or my iron... or my vacuum cleaner.
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And your car too, I'd imagine. Just a tool for a job, yes?
 
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ZoneV said:
And your car too, I'd imagine. Just a tool for a job, yes?
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My Micra, yes.. it's transport - I've not washed it in 2 years.

The Mustang? it's still a tool, I just take better care of that one because I don't use it as a tool. I have the Mustang because I'm interested in American cars. Are you interested in photography or cameras? If it's cameras... fine... but I don't drive around in the Mustang and sneer dismissively at people in cars with small 4 cylinder engines because most other people are just getting from A to B and don't give a s**t about me or my car.

If you're an experienced photographer in a group, unless you're a knob head, you should be helping them get from "A to B" photographically and not segregating them because they don't have professional gear.
 
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Not everyone who meets up with cameras wants to necessarily improve their photography, in the same way as not everyone who meets up with a Mustang wants to improve their driving.

Camera clubs are a lot more similar to car owners clubs than you realise. :)

Imagine if a pro car racer turned up at a car owner's club meet and laughed at all the "k**b heads" (your words).

join.jpg


firstfieldtrip.jpg
 
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ZoneV said:
Not everyone who meets up with cameras wants to necessarily improve their photography, in the same way as not everyone who meets up with a Mustang wants to improve their driving.
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You're missing the point... They aren't gathering to laugh at those with lesser cars.

ZoneV said:
Camera clubs are a lot more similar to car owners clubs than you realise. :)
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I'm sure they are in some respects.


ZoneV said:
Imagine if a pro car racer turned up at a car owner's club meet and laughed at all the "k**b heads" (your words).
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Then he'd be a knob head as well wouldn't he? Your point?
 
I have replaced several of my original lens caps with 7dayshop branded ones. In their infinite wisdom, Fuji have equipped their lenses with very narrow areas to stand them on cap down and the 7dayshop ones are the full width of the filter thread so far more stable.
 
ZoneV said:
Exactly.
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So we both agree that sneering at people with less expensive gear than you makes you a knob head. So what have the past 3 exchanges been about exactly?
 
No, sneering at anyone for wanting to join a club we deem as pointless makes one a k**b head.
 
ZoneV said:
No, sneering at anyone for wanting to join a club we deem as pointless makes one a k**b head.
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I'm not sneering at the OP in the slightest... I'm sneering at the people in that club who make him feel he has to consider what gear he has to be accepted.

I am sneering at the clubs that are populated by such though, yes. Why would anyone want to be part of a camera club where the members think they're better than you because of what gear you have?
 
It sounded like you disliked camera club meets in general. Apologies if that's not the case.
 
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ZoneV said:
It sounded like you disliked camera club meets in general. Apologies if that's not the case.
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I dislike many of them, yes.


It depends what their agenda is though.

Many of them are kind of closed to new ideas, and the whole notion of club competitions that seem to dismiss work that doesn't obey outdated rules seem prevalent. There's a great deal of gear snobbery on display in many I've visited too. The reality is, there are too many camera clubs.... hang on... there's a clue right there... CAMERA clubs... that only value a certain kind of photography and dismiss and discourage new members from free expression and challenging work. In order to win their competitions you have to obey RULES and the work is JUDGED by RULES... so many points for being in focus, so many points for this, that and the other... and not enough merit given to the purpose the work is put to. There's no real love of photography as a medium, but lots of love for gear, and processes, and techniques and measurement of work by strict, rigid criteria that makes everyone's work the same.

I've been to lots of "camera" clubs, and I don't like what I see going on in most them, no.
 
Pookeyhead said:
I dislike many of them, yes.


It depends what their agenda is though.

Many of them are kind of closed to new ideas, and the whole notion of club competitions that seem to dismiss work that doesn't obey outdated rules seem prevalent. There's a great deal of gear snobbery on display in many I've visited too. The reality is, there are too many camera clubs.... hang on... there's a clue right there... CAMERA clubs... that only value a certain kind of photography and dismiss and discourage new members from free expression and challenging work. In order to win their competitions you have to obey RULES and the work is JUDGED by RULES... so many points for being in focus, so many points for this, that and the other... and not enough merit given to the purpose the work is put to. There's no real love of photography as a medium, but lots of love for gear, and processes, and techniques and measurement of work by strict, rigid criteria that makes everyone's work the same.

I've been to lots of "camera" clubs, and I don't like what I see going on in most them, no.
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From a creative point of view, I do see your point. You're clearly very serious about your photography. However, camera clubs aren't always about serious photography. They're just a bunch of people with a common interest who like to meet up, take a few nice pictures, compare kit and have a chinwag.

So, whilst they may not be your cup of tea, it's exactly what some people want.

Again, think of the arrogant racing driver turning up at one of your Mustang owner's club meet ups.
 
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ZoneV said:
From a creative point of view, I do see your point. You're clearly very serious about your photography. However, camera clubs aren't always about serious photography. They're just a bunch of people with a common interest who like to meet up, take a few nice pictures, compare kit and have a chinwag.

So, whilst they may not be your cup of tea, it's exactly what some people want.

Again, think of the arrogant racing driver turning up at one of your Mustang owner's club meet ups.
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I don't know any arrogant racing drivers... and I know a few.

I also don't go to Mustang meets any more as you just get fingerprints all over your car, and amateur photographers scratching it with clasps and straps from their stupid camera bags (and once one of them getting some frumpy model in ridiculous clothing sitting on it)... and ultimately... they're just boring. I get in it... and I drive it.

I agree that the main reason for camera clubs is social, yes. However, they're often hostile to anything that's different. You're welcome if you fit their ideal of what they want. They tend to be exclusive. I think that's bad. I can only speak for the ones I've seen however. I'm sure there must be good ones somewhere, but I've yet to see them.
 
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Since we're talking mustangs, the new one with the independent suspension is excellent. Goes around corners brilliantly, lots of confidence with the handling.
 
Byker28i said:
Since we're talking mustangs, the new one with the independent suspension is excellent. Goes around corners brilliantly, lots of confidence with the handling.
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Apparently so, yeah. In a way, that's why I'm not interested LOL. It's no longer a muscle car.
 
Pookeyhead said:
I agree that the main reason for camera clubs is social, yes. However, they're often hostile to anything that's different. You're welcome if you fit their ideal of what they want. They tend to be exclusive. I think that's bad. I can only speak for the ones I've seen however. I'm sure there must be good ones somewhere, but I've yet to see them.
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I've heard you say these sorts of things about camera clubs before, and I'm as puzzled now as I have been every time. I simply don't recognise anything you say. Maybe I'm just lucky that Maidenhead camera club isn't like that, and I've never realised it because I've never been a member of any others. Or maybe it's a geographical thing. What's your sample size?
 
StewartR said:
I've heard you say these sorts of things about camera clubs before, and I'm as puzzled now as I have been every time. I simply don't recognise anything you say. Maybe I'm just lucky that Maidenhead camera club isn't like that, and I've never realised it because I've never been a member of any others. Or maybe it's a geographical thing. What's your sample size?
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As I've acknowledged, I'm sure there must be good ones... somewhere. Sample size?... around 20 or so.. approx, spread around the country, so I don't think it's geographical. Maybe you've not tested their receptiveness to new idea the same way I have. I find they're only interested in the technical, and process/technique led aspects of photography. I've given talks at many camera clubs in my time. I've displayed work and talked about it, and all they seem interested in is what lens I used, or how was it processed. There was no interest in discussing photography as a medium of communication, and when I've tried to do so, I've been met with bored stares and inane questions about why I cropped the image the way I did, or why I didn't make it black and white. The same when I've been asked to judge work: Several times I was basically shouted down because I was suggesting work that they deemed unsuitable because composition wasn't "good" as if there are stiff, unbreakable rules: Work that didn't meet technical criteria they deemed to be essential, and when I argued that what the work was doing was more important, I was met with stiff opposition. They'd already agreed who'd won. They seemed woefully out of touch with contemporary photography. I once remember once a discussion on the Taylor Wessing prize becoming quite heated to the point where the meeting was adjourned, all because of the wholesale rejection of contemporary photography and utter unwillingness to even discuss it.

No... I'll not name the clubs in question... that would be unprofessional of me. I wish them no ill will, and their members are happy... but that's the point. I suppose whether you think a camera club is bad or not depends on your standpoint on photography.

I have however, had some good visits and talks with Photographic Societies, including the RPS. I think there's a real difference between local camera clubs, and larger regional photographic societies. The smaller and more parochial, the more closed minded and conservative they are.
 
Pookeyhead said:
No... LOL What would be the point? Surely if loads of photographers go to the same place, and take the same shots, it would be an utter waste of time?

Elite? Wrong word... try "Wa****s".

There's only one measure of a photographer, and that is the imagery they produce. All else is the stupidity of camera club types who are childish enough to belive that equipment actually matters for some reason. A great photographer will produce great imagery with cheap equipment, but someone who's S**t will still produce s**t with expensive equipment. Garbage in, garbage out.

Why do you want to hang around with morons like this any way? Anyone who spends 3 grand on a lens for a miniature format like 35mm is a knob head.

Cameras are just tools... nothing more. I've never cleaned, or played with mine.. It's in a bag.. it gets used when it's needed and ignored when it;'s not... just like my socket set, or my iron... or my vacuum cleaner.

They're TOOLS!!!

Get out of the camera club crowd while you've still got some individuality left... they'll suck your creative soul right out of your body, and you'll start to believe the bo**ocks they tell you.

Run away.... fast... and far.
Click to expand...

Why are you so obsessed with what folk spend?
 
chris malcolm said:
You know when you go out with a gang of photographers, get to the place, and everyone starts getting their tripods out. The gear snobs stroll around to see if any of the lesser mortals have brought something which could merit their admission to the elite, or perhaps a few moments of conversation. Your lens has an impressively big lump of glass on the front. That attracts their attention, and they walk towards you. Then they see the cheap name on the barrel, and with a patronising twtich of the eyebrows walk on.

I buy a lot of my stuff second hand. Second hand lenses often come with the wrong lens cap, just something handy which happened to fit. One of my big second hand lenses came with a big Zeiss lens cap. Of course that's not the name on the barrel, but I can easily drape the camera strap over that. It works really well. Of course they soon drift off when they find out I don't have a Zeiss lens, but I do get a few moments of friendly chat with one of the elite!
Click to expand...

I doubt anyone cares about your lens as much as you think they do.
 
Pookeyhead said:
As I've acknowledged, I'm sure there must be good ones... somewhere. Sample size?... around 20 or so.. approx, spread around the country, so I don't think it's geographical. Maybe you've not tested their receptiveness to new idea the same way I have. I find they're only interested in the technical, and process/technique led aspects of photography. I've given talks at many camera clubs in my time. I've displayed work and talked about it, and all they seem interested in is what lens I used, or how was it processed. There was no interest in discussing photography as a medium of communication, and when I've tried to do so, I've been met with bored stares and inane questions about why I cropped the image the way I did, or why I didn't make it black and white. The same when I've been asked to judge work: Several times I was basically shouted down because I was suggesting work that they deemed unsuitable because composition wasn't "good" as if there are stiff, unbreakable rules: Work that didn't meet technical criteria they deemed to be essential, and when I argued that what the work was doing was more important, I was met with stiff opposition. They'd already agreed who'd won. They seemed woefully out of touch with contemporary photography. I once remember once a discussion on the Taylor Wessing prize becoming quite heated to the point where the meeting was adjourned, all because of the wholesale rejection of contemporary photography and utter unwillingness to even discuss it.

No... I'll not name the clubs in question... that would be unprofessional of me. I wish them no ill will, and their members are happy... but that's the point. I suppose whether you think a camera club is bad or not depends on your standpoint on photography.

I have however, had some good visits and talks with Photographic Societies, including the RPS. I think there's a real difference between local camera clubs, and larger regional photographic societies. The smaller and more parochial, the more closed minded and conservative they are.
Click to expand...


My experience has some parallels. I'm no longer a member of my local photographic society mainly due to lack of time, but partly due to my photographic interests going in a different direction to club photography. However I do regularly speak at clubs across Lancashire and Yorkshire. You will always get members who are there simply to get out of the house - on Tuesday it's bridge, Wednesday it's Basket Weaving, Thursday it's Camera Club, etc. Others are more interested in the technical side and finally a few enjoy the totality of technical, creative, historical and philosophical. I try to pitch my talk to appeal to all, so will briefly mention cameras, the techniques I use and draw on the work of Bill Brandt, Bernd Becher, Don McCullin and others from the past. Some clubs don't get it, while others embrace it and I am surrounded by people asking questions at the end.

My single experience of judging the photography section of a local arts competition (never again - over 300 entries to judge in an afternoon on my own) demonstrated that there is often a high level of technical skill in the taking, processing and presentation of images in amateur photography (the majority of entrants were from local camera clubs), but a lack of variation in the content. I think this is partly driven by competitions and distinctions, but also there's very much a certain aesthetic in camera clubs. It's rare to see anything particularly contemporary, although I've seen some interesting stuff at FRPS events and in the RPS journal (e.g.deconstructed photographs inspired by Russian Suprematist painter Malevich).

If these observations sounds like criticism, they aren't. In amongst some of the closed minds, there's some damn good club photography out there, some real craftsmen and a few artists. And, like any gathering of like minds, a few big egos and cretins but these are for the most part in the minority.
 
Laudrup said:
I doubt anyone cares about your lens as much as you think they do.
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The point of my story was that they cared more about the brand name than the lens. I hope I didn't give the impression that those gear snobs were characteristic of the local gang. Far from it. The local gang generally speaking is most welcoming and inclusive. The gear snobs are a small clique within it.
 
Pookeyhead said:
Anyone who spends 3 grand on a lens for a miniature format like 35mm is a knob head.

.....

They're TOOLS!!!
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So if the tool you need to use, in order to perform a certain job, is expensive, then that automatically makes you a knob head?
 
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StewartR said:
So if the tool you need to use, in order to perform a certain job, is expensive, then that automatically makes you a knob head?
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If you need to spend £3500 on a prime lens to eek out the last drop of quality, that will only ever be noticed on the largest of prints by the most obsessive of clients, then may I suggest you are slightly misguided by shooting that job on 35mm? You are using the wrong tools... you clearly need medium format. You're well into diminishing returns here.... The levels of quality over using a decent Nikon/Canon lens, or Sigma Art lens are negligible.


If you are talking about huge sums for a fast 600mm lens when you are a wildlife documentary photographer, or a sports photographer, then no, obviously that's not what I'm talking about.

Laudrup said:
Why are you so obsessed with what folk spend?
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On a personal level I couldn't give a monkeys, but from a photographic point of view, I just wish some people would invest time, practice and knowledge into the medium instead of thinking they can become a better photographer by obtaining better gear. In a forum where beginners are hungry for advice I think it can sometimes set the wrong example.
 
I not an elite photographer,every bit of photograph item on own has meant i have had to go without a lot of others things,i do tend my photography alone and to honest i barely run into others photographer with lots of gear :)
 
Pookeyhead said:
No... LOL What would be the point? Surely if loads of photographers go to the same place, and take the same shots, it would be an utter waste of time?

.
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Have you not browsed the landscape forum lately? ;)
 
People care about what lens you have in the same way as people who care what car you have or what watch, trainers, etc. you wear. The opinions of those who think that is important are probably worthless.


Steve.
 
Pookeyhead said:
No... LOL What would be the point? Surely if loads of photographers go to the same place, and take the same shots, it would be an utter waste of time?
Click to expand...

That's what a lot of local photographers around here do. There are times and places where it's pretty likely you'll find a clutter of tripods. As shown by the photographs they post some are struggling with the basics, and a few are very good indeed. There's a lot of informal teaching goes on at the time, and then later in on-line discussions. Over the years I've watched some of the good ones progress from being good to being excellent. These clusters of tripods all shooting the same thing are informal classes, opportunities to learn from the experts, and I'm sure that competitive rivalry among the experts has spurred them on.

It's not just about the photograph you take at the time, it's also a question of what part the taking and processing of the photograph plays in the development of your skills.

The same goes for gear. I've bought some gear because for what I wanted to do I lacked a certain feature, such as a certain focal length. I've bought some other gear which wasn't justified in cost by any photographs I was going to take, but was in terms of what I was going to be able to learn by playing with it.

Cameras are just tools... nothing more. I've never cleaned, or played with mine.. It's in a bag.. it gets used when it's needed and ignored when it;'s not... just like my socket set, or my iron... or my vacuum cleaner.

They're TOOLS!!!
Click to expand...

That seems to be the important difference between us. To you they're tools to get a certain job done and that's it. Whereas I'm still learning, and most of my photographs and some of my gear purchases are for learning purposes, educational tools.

Get out of the camera club crowd while you've still got some individuality left... they'll suck your creative soul right out of your body, and you'll start to believe the bo**ocks they tell you.
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At least not a problem in my case. I'm a natural sceptic and eccentric who always feels uncomfortable agreeing with authority.
 
Pookeyhead said:
If you need to spend £3500 on a prime lens to eek out the last drop of quality, that will only ever be noticed on the largest of prints by the most obsessive of clients, then may I suggest you are slightly misguided by shooting that job on 35mm? You are using the wrong tools... you clearly need medium format. You're well into diminishing returns here.... The levels of quality over using a decent Nikon/Canon lens, or Sigma Art lens are negligible.

If you are talking about huge sums for a fast 600mm lens when you are a wildlife documentary photographer, or a sports photographer, then no, obviously that's not what I'm talking about.

On a personal level I couldn't give a monkeys, but from a photographic point of view, I just wish some people would invest time, practice and knowledge into the medium instead of thinking they can become a better photographer by obtaining better gear. In a forum where beginners are hungry for advice I think it can sometimes set the wrong example.
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I took out the prime especially to shoot the 10x8 just for you:

wugozl.jpg


Not really I was carrying it anyway, I just like the lens and with a limited amount of time to invest it is nice to use and pleases me if I get it right, if not then I can't blame the equipment. If I want a real challenge I'll shoot Ektar on 10x8 like above and Fuji Velvia 50 on 5x4 like last night.

Beginners get pretty good advice on here, I don't see many saying go and buy something really exotic and expensive and unsuitable.
 
Laudrup said:
I took out the prime especially to shoot the 10x8 just for you:

wugozl.jpg



Not really I was carrying it anyway, I just like the lens and with a limited amount of time to invest it is nice to use and pleases me if I get it right, if not then I can't blame the equipment. If I want a real challenge I'll shoot Ektar on 10x8 like above and Fuji Velvia 50 on 5x4 like last night.

Beginners get pretty good advice on here, I don't see many saying go and buy something really exotic and expensive and unsuitable.
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Why are you showing me this? LOL
 
Pookeyhead said:
Why are you showing me this? LOL
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You seem to think spending more than a fiver and not being some tortured artist wannabe taking dull photos of old men drinking tea means you are some k******d that doesn't know what way to point the camera. LOL.
 
Laudrup said:
You seem to think spending more than a fiver and not being some tortured artist wannabe taking dull photos of old men drinking tea means you are some k******d that doesn't know what way to point the camera. LOL.
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And using your £3500 lens to take a picture of your camera is meant to convince me otherwise?
 
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