The analogue to digital film back

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Eugene T

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I was digging around the internet many years ago ( late 90s ) and there was a company in the usa that was trying to go ahead with a digital ccd back that could replace the back on a regular film camera ie 35mm .
Has the concept progressed or not , because i read about it but it seems to still be an elusive piece of kit that remains in limbo or dream land. Is it ever going to happen ?, or are market forces keeping it from being developed. Whats the latest result ?
 
Eugene T said:
I was digging around the internet many years ago ( late 90s ) and there was a company in the usa that was trying to go ahead with a digital ccd back that could replace the back on a regular film camera ie 35mm .
Has the concept progressed or not , because i read about it but it seems to still be an elusive piece of kit that remains in limbo or dream land. Is it ever going to happen ?, or are market forces keeping it from being developed. Whats the latest result ?
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I recall that "back in the day" and that it was a very low MP count. Frankly with the advent of fully digital cameras, as opposed to trying to digitise a film camera, the boat has well & truly sailed. Can you perceive of a major manufacturer or even a start up putting money into what I surmise is a cul de sac of technology!
 
A digital 35mm film back? Pah, that's nothing! Does anyone remember the concept of a 35mm film canister size and shaped adaptor that would turn a film camera into a digital one? I seem to recall that idea never made it into commercial production either.
 
Could a mirrorless be used as a digital back? I wonder what is the effect on focusing would be of moving the sensor a bit further back than the film plane?
 
BTW, I've got a back that turns a 5x4 into 120, does that count :-)
 
Mr Badger said:
A digital 35mm film back? Pah, that's nothing! Does anyone remember the concept of a 35mm film canister size and shaped adaptor that would turn a film camera into a digital one? I seem to recall that idea never made it into commercial production either.
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I also recall that and thought at the time what great tech step forward. But as I noted above the resolution was nothing close to 35mm film! I don't recall any details of proof of concept?
 
Thanks for the reply .

I was just curious . Well i suppose at the time it seemed like a brilliant idea but digital cameras took off and went from strength to strength the problem for me is i,m really a film man and cant see myself lashing out for a dedicated digital camera when i already have a perfectly good kit here albeit old and in need of some repair. Something like that would appeal to me as i would get the best of both worlds . Your probably right in that it would be of no interest to their sales of digital cameras ie profits unless there was a shift in demand for such a thing . Yes bit of an odd ball but intriguing, imagine all those dirt cheap film cameras now kicking around that could be re-activated , even my old Zenit E HA!.


Just thought i would ask the question ,
 
Really, there's so little point in such a concept - you might as well just use a digicam!

But given that some of us might prefer the ergonomics and viewfinder experience of a film cam of whatever format - 35mm, mf or beyond ...

Maybe we have to grow up and move on, and at best use a Nikon DF or some of the Fuji X series. But it'll never be the same, and it never has been.
 
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sirch said:
Could a mirrorless be used as a digital back? I wonder what is the effect on focusing would be of moving the sensor a bit further back than the film plane?
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Why not just fit the 'legacy' lens to the mirrorless camera and have done with it? :confused:

As Box Brownie has said, I think the 'let's digitise a film camera' idea has well and truly gone as a commercially viable idea. For instance, I've just picked up a Fuji Finepix S2000HD 10 megapixel bridge camera, with the equivalent of a very capable 28 to 400mm zoom range, in full working order for the princely sum of £14.99 from a local charity shop! It works fine and is proving to be very useful for work photos to drop into PDF survey reports! The built-in zoom range is great, and if I drop and kill the camera tomorrow it doesn't owe me anything after two weeks use! With kit at that price, what incentive is there to digitise an old film camera other than a bit of fun? Then ask yourself, how much would you pay for a bit of fun? (let's keep any answers honest and clean! :whistle:).

While the concept of a digital adaptor for an old film camera might seem like fun, what's the point these days when we've got mobile phones that will probably take much better photos, and a plethora of cheap and unloved digital cameras from a few years ago that will probably give much better digital results than an affordable digi adaptor for a film camera?

I think if you want to enjoy the retro experience of an old film camera then you should shoot film in it. If you want to take average quality digital photos then there's a world of modern retro to explore, apparently for very little money. In fact I wonder how long it will be before 'retro' digital cameras start to become collectable and the price of some of these cameras starts to rise?
 
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Yes interesting points , no i dont think it will ever happen but who knows, like i said i was just curious after all these years . My argument is why should i carry two systems when i just need one and when i need digital i switch the back , if i invest in a digital system it will never do film .
A sony on the back of a blad , ive seen it all now .
 
sirch said:
Where's the fun in that? :thinking:

I once fitted a digital back to a pinhole camera made from a tin can
View attachment 249731
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This is beginning to remind me of a true story I heard from a professional musician friend of mine... In the late 80s a guitarist had just bought a state of the art effects processor for his guitar and turned up to a sound check where he was going to be playing alongside a very famous rock musician (who shall remain nameless). The guitarist was keen to show off his new kit and demonstrated that he could now make his guitar sound quite convincingly like a variety of other instruments.

While pressing various buttons he said "Listen, it sounds like a flute, and now a piano, and now a saxophone' . "Very good" said the famous musician... "Now can you make it sound like a guitar please?". :whistle:
 
Eugene T said:
Thanks for the reply .

I was just curious . Well i suppose at the time it seemed like a brilliant idea but digital cameras took off and went from strength to strength the problem for me is i,m really a film man and cant see myself lashing out for a dedicated digital camera when i already have a perfectly good kit here albeit old and in need of some repair. Something like that would appeal to me as i would get the best of both worlds . Your probably right in that it would be of no interest to their sales of digital cameras ie profits unless there was a shift in demand for such a thing . Yes bit of an odd ball but intriguing, imagine all those dirt cheap film cameras now kicking around that could be re-activated , even my old Zenit E HA!.


Just thought i would ask the question ,
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:lol: the concept as I recall it required its use with a DX film speed recognition patches camera so your old Zenit E would have been left behind even then ;)
 
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Ironically, it's now much easier to get film for the regular back (or indeed a 1930s Leica) than it is to get a working battery for the Digital Modul R. Leica's manual focus R series cameras didn't long outlast the demise of the digital back; they put all their efforts into making digital M cameras for the traditionalists and various AF cameras for everyone else. The closest thing to the R series they make today is the S series, with AF, a larger format sensor, and even more eye-bleedingly expensive prices.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
There is such a gadget and it's (allegedly) in production with a 16GB sensor: https://imback.eu/home/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Im_Back_official_retail_prices_2019_small.pdf

(does no-one else use search engines round here?)
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https://petapixel.com/2018/09/21/im-backs-digital-backs-for-old-35mm-cameras-are-now-in-production/

"...for anyone who wants to have fun like they used to, even when the photo was not good and it was a source of anger and also a laugh. Good times!"
 
Interesting , i watched the video , not impressed , not really a technical critique . It looks like a pre production proof of concept , the review was just as bad . I wouldn,t walk around with that on my camera , what a dumb design !. Still at least he had a go. But if this continues and trends change someone might just nail it.
Would i buy one if one existed , dont know , theres lots of questions there to justify that answer. I think it might just have novelty value.
Oh well time will tell.
 
It's both an ingenious and terrible idea, turning your precision SLR into the equivalent of a clumsy digital toy camera. But then, of course, that's exactly what some people want. As with pinhole and Holga images, quality isn't really the point.
 
'proof of concept' - exactly. Since the dawn of the www there have been start-ups claiming such an idea is weeks from fruition - and if they can just get a bit more investment it'll be a goer. My personal feeling is that the idea has limited mileage beyond Shoreditch hipsters who want the aesthetic of a Russian bakelite camera, which they can upload to instagram. You remember a while back when Lomos were highly trendy? I reckon digital 35mm would likely be a fad - with limited long term mileage. If it has passable quality and came in at 50 quid or less, the temptation to raid junk shops for oddball cameras would interest me. But I suspect it would frustrate me quite soon, when I captured the odd good shot, only to wish I'd done it with a 5D4.
 
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Harlequin565 said:
Her reaction is most amusing
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An excellent video about the difference between boys and girls ;) I'm sure that's something of a generalisation but I get a similar reaction from my daughter when I get the 5x4 out.

It's left me wondering why it needs a focusing screen? I guess because either all affordable CCD modules have a lens attached and/or getting the optics right with out one would be expensive
 
sirch said:
It's left me wondering why it needs a focusing screen? I guess because either all affordable CCD modules have a lens attached and/or getting the optics right with out one would be expensive
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It lets them get away with using a cheap, tiny sensor that isn't in the film plane, while still capturing the whole 35mm frame. Apparently it works in a similar way to one of these:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth-of-field_adapter
 
WD40 said:
'proof of concept' - exactly. Since the dawn of the www there have been start-ups claiming such an idea is weeks from fruition - and if they can just get a bit more investment it'll be a goer.
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A fundamental problem with this idea is that a high quality digital back needs most of the components of a high quality digital camera, so it's never going to be cheap. And unless it's specifically designed for a particular camera, like the Leica DMR, the combination isn't going to work well. The Holy Grail was always a drop-in 'digital cassette' that would replace 35mm film. Every so often someone claims they are deveoping this rather unlikely concept:
https://www.diyphotography.net/pseu...-failed-bringing-digital-sensors-35mm-bodies/
 
Eugene T said:
Yes interesting points , no i dont think it will ever happen but who knows, like i said i was just curious after all these years . My argument is why should i carry two systems when i just need one and when i need digital i switch the back , if i invest in a digital system it will never do film .
A sony on the back of a blad , ive seen it all now .
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Just carry one system, there’s plenty of film cameras that use the same lenses as digital bodies.
So rather than looking for a ‘digital back’ for a film based system, a low weight ‘film back’ alternative for a digital system is quite simple.
 
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Phil V said:
Just carry one system, there’s plenty of film cameras that use the same lenses as digital bodies.
So rather than looking for a ‘digital back’ for a film based system, a low weight ‘film back’ alternative for a digital system is quite simple.
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This is a very sensible approach if you must have a digital camera. Ha.

Things ARE still being developed (no pun) as far as cross compatibility goes. Hasselblad have just released a brand new digital back for the V system. So if you have a 500cm or similar, you can have a 2019, brand new tech digital back for it and keep the beauty of the Hasselblad.

Or you know, just keep shooting film with cameras from the last 100 years which don't do out of date within 12 months. ;)
 
Harlequin565 said:
but there'll be hipsters who'll love it.
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Not just hipsters. I’ll be tempted if it goes into production. I’ve had very acceptable pictures off small sensors.
 
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The last one I saw mooted as a kickstarter consisted of an adaptor for the 'donor' camera back holding a ground glass screen on the film plane and a point and shoot pointing at that. WHY...............?
 
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