The Amazing Sony A1/A7/A9/APS-C & Anything else welcome Mega Thread!

[f/1.2]

Sensor readout of the A7V is approx 4.5x faster than the A7IV. The A7 IV is approx 66ms so by my calculations that means the A7V will be 14.6ms, therefore it's still quite a bit slower than the A1 which is 3.8-4ms.

I used to have the EM1 Mark II which has a readout speed of approx 16.7ms and on viewing a single image it was hard to see any rolling shutter, you could see it if you shot a series and viewed one to the other quickly, you could see the distortion in the subject change very slightly. For me it wasn't enough to worry about as, just looking at a single image you didn't notice it, although I guess if there's a lot of vertical lines it might be more noticeable.

Basically it's just a long winded way of saying that I think the electronic shutter will be usable most of the time with the A7V

Rolling shutter will be minimised but will still be there, so it is an improvement over the A7IV.

Banding is still gonna be pretty poor though. Rolling shutter I can deal with banding I can not. This just means that it's not a body that would be useful to me personally. I don't use our A7IV's for the same reason, they are my wife's camera's. She doesn't mind using the mech shutter, I do. The A7IV and based on the specs and the A7V will likely be unusable indoors using the electronic shutter.

To be fair I didn't expect that it would be usable, if it had of been I would have been front of the line to buy one. I will just have to pay the extra for another A9III. I suppose at some point we will likely get some to replace my wife's A7IV's. With the rest of the specs, if it had of had a fully stacked sensor it would be the perfect camera for weddings but then it would be a fair bit more expensive. I wonder how much more it would have cost with a fully stacked sensor, or if Sony are just crippling them to protect the other cameras that have it.

My use is different than most of the rest of the guys here as I am shooting indoors more than most and its my personal preference to always use the e shutter.

 

[woof woof]

I see they've also launched a 28-70mm f3.5-5.6 II. I still have the original. Any takers for the II? Anyone using the original regularly?

 

[snerkler]

Rolling shutter will be minimised but will still be there, so it is an improvement over the A7IV.

Banding is still gonna be pretty poor though. Rolling shutter I can deal with banding I can not. This just means that it's not a body that would be useful to me personally. I don't use our A7IV's for the same reason, they are my wife's camera's. She doesn't mind using the mech shutter, I do. The A7IV and based on the specs and the A7V will likely be unusable indoors using the electronic shutter.

To be fair I didn't expect that it would be usable, if it had of been I would have been front of the line to buy one. I will just have to pay the extra for another A9III. I suppose at some point we will likely get some to replace my wife's A7IV's. With the rest of the specs, if it had of had a fully stacked sensor it would be the perfect camera for weddings but then it would be a fair bit more expensive. I wonder how much more it would have cost with a fully stacked sensor, or if Sony are just crippling them to protect the other cameras that have it.

My use is different than most of the rest of the guys here as I am shooting indoors more than most and its my personal preference to always use the e shutter.

Yeah, I don't think it will be a camera you can use the e-shutter with for weddings, but I think most wildlife, maybe even motorsports you could probably get away with it but obviously without using one I can't say with any certainty, I can only guess based on my experience with the EM1 II.

 

[snerkler]

I see they've also launched a 28-70mm f3.5-5.6 II. I still have the original. Any takers for the II? Anyone using the original regularly?

Nope

 

[nandbytes]

Yeah I think the r6 is about 16 and the 7v 14ms readout.
Either way it’s a big difference compared to the last 2 models and everyone lived with them.
I did wonder what the Sony equivalent was to an r5.
What is the canon equivalent to the R line.?


I’ve watched as many videos on this as possible, overall most seem happy,
a significant and not significant update in ways.
Will be interesting to see what the real DR and iso results are once the images can be processed but so far it seems to be very mixed on both.
Some saying an improvement over the IV others saying its exactly the same.

readout speed is one thing but with R6iii (and Z6iii) you are also getting a reduction in dynamic range.
Sony claim they have managed to keep the dynamic range the same and going by early reviews its certainly not as bad as canikons

There is no real competitor to A7RV out there across brands.
At the same time R5/Z8 aren't really a competitor to the A1/ii either or A9iii for that matter.
A1ii has a lot of other benefits but I just don't feel its worth the extra two grand (for me, professionals probably see it differently).

On a slightly separate note it feels like canikon shot themselves in the foot by adopting CFe type B unlike Sony.
Initially I was annoyed with Sony's decision to support type A because there weren't many options, low supply hence high price and slower.
But looks like it can now go higher speeds, there's lot more options and it means they can do double matched card slots in a smaller body.
Two get dual type B slots you need to buy massive bodies. Plus you can make type A slots also take SD cards. All in all seems much nicer now in hindsight.

 

[pmac]

Yeah, I don't think it will be a camera you can use the e-shutter with for weddings, but I think most wildlife, maybe even motorsports you could probably get away with it but obviously without using one I can't say with any certainty, I can only guess based on my experience with the EM1 II.

View: https://youtu.be/cD15fCeEsFE?si=BnyZL_Q5exhgpZhm
at about two minutes he shows some rolling shutter and indoor light testing.
The warping is far less and looks perfectly usable for most.
Banding is still prevalent the IV was loads of small bands all across the screen , where as the V is maybe 5/6 large bands , looks more like the exposure banding you get with a failing shutter.
But again unless your un willing to use the real shutter it’s a non issue.
I think it’s him that also asked Sony about the shutter and it’s supposedly the same as the R line now and rated to 500k(I think? He said double the IV)

 

[snerkler]

readout speed is one thing but with R6iii (and Z6iii) you are also getting a reduction in dynamic range.
Sony claim they have managed to keep the dynamic range the same and going by early reviews its certainly not as bad as canikons

There is no real competitor to A7RV out there across brands.
At the same time R5/Z8 aren't really a competitor to the A1/ii either or A9iii for that matter.
A1ii has a lot of other benefits but I just don't feel its worth the extra two grand (for me, professionals probably see it differently).

On a slightly separate note it feels like canikon shot themselves in the foot by adopting CFe type B unlike Sony.
Initially I was annoyed with Sony's decision to support type A because there weren't many options, low supply hence high price and slower.
But looks like it can now go higher speeds, there's lot more options and it means they can do double matched card slots in a smaller body.
Two get dual type B slots you need to buy massive bodies. Plus you can make type A slots also take SD cards. All in all seems much nicer now in hindsight.

Sony say it's got 1 stop more DR

I never realised CFe type B were physically bigger, I understand more now why Sony chose type A.

On another note it seems that all of these early reviewers now get paid to help the cameras sell. For example, I used to think that Manny gave balanced reviews but after the A7V review where he says he would choose the A7V over any Sony other Sony body you know he's talking a load of rubbish. One of the reasons for not choosing the A1 II being because it doesn't have a truly mechanical shutter as it has an electronic first curtain

 

[woof woof]

Nope

I'd be surprised if any regulars in this thread used a 28-70mm f3.5-5.6 regularly but I do think that even the original is a valid general purpose lens for anyone who doesn't mind the aperture range.

 

[snerkler]

View: https://youtu.be/cD15fCeEsFE?si=BnyZL_Q5exhgpZhm
at about two minutes he shows some rolling shutter and indoor light testing.
The warping is far less and looks perfectly usable for most.
Banding is still prevalent the IV was loads of small bands all across the screen , where as the V is maybe 5/6 large bands , looks more like the exposure banding you get with a failing shutter.
But again unless your un willing to use the real shutter it’s a non issue.
I think it’s him that also asked Sony about the shutter and it’s supposedly the same as the R line now and rated to 500k(I think? He said double the IV)

The banding is still clearly an issue, yes there's less bands but they're larger and still ruin the shot. However, for most people they can just use the mechanical for the odd times it may be an issue.

Looking at the limited shots it does look as thought he electronic shutter is usable for action which is great. There's no point boasting 30fps if you can't actually use it for action.

 

[pmac]

Sony say it's got 1 stop more DR

I never realised CFe type B were physically bigger, I understand more now why Sony chose type A.

On another note it seems that all of these early reviewers now get paid to help the cameras sell. For example, I used to think that Manny gave balanced reviews but after the A7V review where he says he would choose the A7V over any Sony other Sony body you know he's talking a load of rubbish. One of the reasons for not choosing the A1 II being because it doesn't have a truly mechanical shutter as it has an electronic first curtain

Yes definitely a fair amount of paid/ pushed promotion.
It will take 4-6 months before we get a true feeling for what it can and can’t actually do.

Is his issue on no real shutter to do with flash photography and the worse bokeh.
More to do with why spend so much on a camera and lens when it’s giving worse results in some instances.

The banding is still clearly an issue, yes there's less bands but they're larger and still ruin the shot. However, for most people they can just use the mechanical for the odd times it may be an issue.

Looking at the limited shots it does look as thought he electronic shutter is usable for action which is great. There's no point boasting 30fps if you can't actually use it for action.

The 30fps is abit of a wierd one for me, it is really just a boast it’s just over 1 second of shooting and then will slow right down as the buffer is only 50 images.
Doesn’t say exactly what it’s throttled to but I would guess 10/15fps what ever the full shutter is.
I know this is the same in other brands but it does seem like just a boast why not say just 20fps and it can do a 4s 80 shot run.

 

[ancient_mariner]

I'd be surprised if any regulars in this thread used a 28-70mm f3.5-5.6 regularly but I do think that even the original is a valid general purpose lens for anyone who doesn't mind the aperture range.

It's a very old fashioned range, and one for kit lenses or professional wide-aperture only.

 

[woof woof]

It's a very old fashioned range, and one for kit lenses or professional wide-aperture only.

I think the zoom range is adequate and covers 99.99% of what I use but the aperture range is more of a limitation, and it's a zoom. Back when I had my Nikon SLR I used a kit lens for everything for years and years but that was before I got my first prime.

 

[snerkler]

Is his issue on no real shutter to do with flash photography and the worse bokeh.
More to do with why spend so much on a camera and lens when it’s giving worse results in some instances.

My thoughts are that it's to do with the artefacts you can get with EFCS and wide aperture, however how often is this going to cause an issue? Most of the time you're going to be using the electronic shutter, indoor studio you can still use electronic shutter as it has a sync speed of 1/200. The only time it will be an issue is with HSS, but would this really be enough to choose the A7V over the A1 or A1 II when you consider all of the benefits of those?

 

[nandbytes]

Sony say it's got 1 stop more DR

I never realised CFe type B were physically bigger, I understand more now why Sony chose type A.

On another note it seems that all of these early reviewers now get paid to help the cameras sell. For example, I used to think that Manny gave balanced reviews but after the A7V review where he says he would choose the A7V over any Sony other Sony body you know he's talking a load of rubbish. One of the reasons for not choosing the A1 II being because it doesn't have a truly mechanical shutter as it has an electronic first curtain

Well A1 is the same it has EFCS only, no pure mechanical shutter.
To be honest I have never actually ever used a full mechanical shutter, i have always used EFCS since a-mount days.
May be i am missing out on something and I know there are some "lab tests" showing it can affect bokeh, but i know no better.
Ignorance is bliss

 

[snerkler]

Talking of all this, is there a way I can see in the exif whether I used mechanical or electronic shutter? I'm interested to see if I can see any artefacts using mechanical shutter with the A1 if it's not a fully mechanical shutter?

 

[Mr Perceptive]

I'm interested to see if I can see any artefacts using mechanical shutter with the A1

Here we go again, looking for problems!! My advice don't!!!! because once seen never unseen, better to remain in ignorant bliss

 

[snerkler]

Here we go again, looking for problems!! My advice don't!!!! because once seen never unseen, better to remain in ignorant bliss

Not really an issue, 99.9% of the time I'm using fully electronic shutter

 

[pmac]

Talking of all this, is there a way I can see in the exif whether I used mechanical or electronic shutter? I'm interested to see if I can see any artefacts using mechanical shutter with the A1 if it's not a fully mechanical shutter?

don't believe its possible or I guess you would be able to get a shutter count for both.
he did have examples in his video comparing the shutter difference.

the A1 is defiantly the better camera , but do also see his point that if the V does 75% of what that camera does, does better video and doesn't have the down sides of using only an electric shutter, to who that matters is it worth spending double or more on the A1.
for 99.9% of people its not, most people have got on for years with way less.
Most are buying it out of GAS or to show off.
The increments now days are so small that it realistically offers only a slight improvement, I know some will jump in to say its need but thats just justification.
This has always been the case with new tech, its never really worth the price and hence why it drops relatively quickly, cameras just have a slightly longer life cycle.
photographers are likely some of the worst for falling into this trap, myself included.
I know my a7iii does 99% of everyone I need it to , but I still want to upgrade

 

[f/1.2]

I never realised CFe type B were physically bigger, I understand more now why Sony chose type A.

It is looking like Sony might have made the right choice with card format this time around. Unlike memory stick and mini disc etc. Type A they are saying now can apparently be made quicker than type B is capable of and also with being smaller physical size two of them can be included in smaller bodies. Double type B bodies tend to be huge like the Z9 for example. You also have the added advantage of type A slots also being able to use SD.

 

[woof woof]

don't believe its possible or I guess you would be able to get a shutter count for both.
he did have examples in his video comparing the shutter difference.

the A1 is defiantly the better camera , but do also see his point that if the V does 75% of what that camera does, does better video and doesn't have the down sides of using only an electric shutter, to who that matters is it worth spending double or more on the A1.
for 99.9% of people its not, most people have got on for years with way less.
Most are buying it out of GAS or to show off.
The increments now days are so small that it realistically offers only a slight improvement, I know some will jump in to say its need but thats just justification.
This has always been the case with new tech, its never really worth the price and hence why it drops relatively quickly, cameras just have a slightly longer life cycle.
photographers are likely some of the worst for falling into this trap, myself included.
I know my a7iii does 99% of everyone I need it to , but I still want to upgrade

When I get a new camera I often think I'm happy with IQ but usually when I get a newer one again I find I'm happier with the IQ. I think the A7cII and whatever A7 it is based on does give a move forward in IQ over tye A7III. I see it but what it's down to I don't know. I can imagine that the A7v moves things on again.

 

[ancient_mariner]

I think the zoom range is adequate and covers 99.99% of what I use but the aperture range is more of a limitation, and it's a zoom. Back when I had my Nikon SLR I used a kit lens for everything for years and years but that was before I got my first prime.

For me, I'd just prefer a couple of primes, but I have used kit lenses in the past. I expect a zoom to do better now, say 24-105 etc. Even my old A mount standard zoom was 28-85.

 

[pmac]

When I get a new camera I often think I'm happy with IQ but usually when I get a newer one again I find I'm happier with the IQ. I think the A7cII and whatever A7 it is based on does give a move forward in IQ over tye A7III. I see it but what it's down to I don't know. I can imagine that the A7v moves things on again.

I get that and it does move on with each iteration, but by how much and how much is that valued to the extra cost .

Most of us likely never print and if we do it will be album sized and Most only post to socials.
If you told a random non photographer that you spent 3k on a body alone to post on socials they would think you were dropped on your head.. never mind a 6k one.

Maybe I’m just getting less excited and more cynical in my older age.. I’ve lost some of the interest in chasing the newest and most shiny things.. I may want them but try and balance the need vs cost… my two teenage daughters drain enough already

 

[snerkler]

When I get a new camera I often think I'm happy with IQ but usually when I get a newer one again I find I'm happier with the IQ. I think the A7cII and whatever A7 it is based on does give a move forward in IQ over tye A7III. I see it but what it's down to I don't know. I can imagine that the A7v moves things on again.

That's probably because you wait a dozen years to upgrade you cameras I don't think the difference from one gen to the next is that much in all honesty. WB and colour science has improved but we've not seen massive hikes in DR or noise handling. The 16 ev DR on the A7V is the biggest jump we've seen in DR for a long time.

 

[snerkler]

Maybe I’m just getting less excited and more cynical in my older age.. I’ve lost some of the interest in chasing the newest and most shiny things.. I may want them but try and balance the need vs cost… my two teenage daughters drain enough already

I like shiny new things, and I do get curious how much better the new cameras and lenses are, however the increasing costs make it more and more difficult to upgrade on a regular basis.

 

[woof woof]

For me, I'd just prefer a couple of primes, but I have used kit lenses in the past. I expect a zoom to do better now, say 24-105 etc. Even my old A mount standard zoom was 28-85.

My ideal is a camera with a standard range zoom and another with a prime but unfortunately I just can't get back into using zooms.

 

[snerkler]

My ideal is a camera with a standard range zoom and another with a prime but unfortunately I just can't get back into using zooms.

I'm happy to use either, but when I use zooms I tend to pick a focal length and then frame with that rather than putting my eye to the viewfinder and then zooming in and out to find the right framing, this way I know roughly what the image will look like it terms of distortion, compression etc.

 

[woof woof]

I get that and it does move on with each iteration, but by how much and how much is that valued to the extra cost .

Most of us likely never print and if we do it will be album sized and Most only post to socials.
If you told a random non photographer that you spent 3k on a body alone to post on socials they would think you were dropped on your head.. never mind a 6k one.

Maybe I’m just getting less excited and more cynical in my older age.. I’ve lost some of the interest in chasing the newest and most shiny things.. I may want them but try and balance the need vs cost… my two teenage daughters drain enough already

For me it's noticeable going from Canon DSLR to MFT to A7 to A7III and A7cII. The cost and if it's justified is something we have to decide for ourselves. I can afford to keep upgrading but mostly I can't be bothered but I can't blame anyone who does as I've seen steps forward myself and if an A7cIII came out and addressed my complaints with my current cII I would probably buy one. Even just having the latest do it all screen would probably get me to buy it as the articulating screen of the cII does irritate me every time I use it. I'd much rather it tilted.

 

[woof woof]

That's probably because you wait a dozen years to upgrade you cameras I don't think the difference from one gen to the next is that much in all honesty. WB and colour science has improved but we've not seen massive hikes in DR or noise handling. The 16 ev DR on the A7V is the biggest jump we've seen in DR for a long time.

The better colours straight out of the camera are probably a big part of what I'm seeing.

 

[f/1.2]

Think I might be one of the first get hands on an IT32 in the U.K.

Funky wee toy.

 

[pmac]

Think I might be one of the first get hands on an IT32 in the U.K.

Funky wee toy.

View attachment 469229

First time I’ve seen this looks interesting

 

[snerkler]

Think I might be one of the first get hands on an IT32 in the U.K.

Funky wee toy.

View attachment 469229

I like that it's compact but it's not going to give off a lot of light, what sort of scenario would you use this for?

Edit: just looked into this in more detail, it really is a neat flash and a cool feature, I'm assuming this is going to be the future of flashes and there'll be bigger and more powerful ones in the future. It's a shame they've used the screw type hot shoe connector rather than the 'quick release' type used on flashes such as the TT685 II.

 

[Faldrax]

Think I might be one of the first get hands on an IT32 in the U.K.

Funky wee toy.

View attachment 469229

I was interested in just the X5s based on the initial release info - something cheap that could act as a basic trigger for my old Godox studio lights, but designed for the Sony Hotshoe (rather than my old XT16, which is 'generic', and I've never quite been comfortable with mounting in the A7iv hotshoe) - but now the info pages reveal the X5 requires the it32 mounted to act as a radio trigger for other Godox units

 

[pmac]

View: https://youtu.be/sGNrsy_XFAM?si=QfEIAZmA3MpzE71d

don't know if this has been mentioned in here around 16min

Sonys response isn't exactly reassuring "We do not guarantee third party compatibility"
if this becomes a thing thats a terrible look for Sony and may affect those sticking with the brand

 

[snerkler]

View: https://youtu.be/sGNrsy_XFAM?si=QfEIAZmA3MpzE71d

don't know if this has been mentioned in here around 16min

Sonys response isn't exactly reassuring "We do not guarantee third party compatibility"
if this becomes a thing thats a terrible look for Sony and may affect those sticking with the brand

I'm not going to jump to conclusions, but I'd be very surprised if Sony stopped third party lenses from working deliberately, they'd lose far too many customers. It could be a firmware issue of either the lens or the body, maybe there's some weird gremlin now they've combined the AI chip with the main chip

 

[pmac]

I'm not going to jump to conclusions, but I'd be very surprised if Sony stopped third party lenses from working deliberately, they'd lose far too many customers. It could be a firmware issue of either the lens or the body, maybe there's some weird gremlin now they've combined the AI chip with the main chip

I do expect it’s a software issue, but would expect a response that it is the issue,
I’ve not seen another review mention it either though.

 

[snerkler]

I do expect it’s a software issue, but would expect a response that it is the issue,
I’ve not seen another review mention it either though.

Well we all know how guarded they are, they've never exactly been transparent

 

[f/1.2]

I like that it's compact but it's not going to give off a lot of light, what sort of scenario would you use this for?

Edit: just looked into this in more detail, it really is a neat flash and a cool feature, I'm assuming this is going to be the future of flashes and there'll be bigger and more powerful ones in the future. It's a shame they've used the screw type hot shoe connector rather than the 'quick release' type used on flashes such as the TT685 II.

I deffo think that type of flash is the future. Ridiculously easy to use just pull the flash of the magnets and your off camera without even having to switch the flash to wireless. I will use it occasionally foe getting ready and when we are rushed in for a cake cut etc. it’s ridiculously tiny so can just carry it in my pocket. I don’t like carrying a bag so usually when we need a flash it means going back to the car. Power isn’t really an issue for what it will be used for as would never use the other flash we had at full power anyway. And if I want something serious for OCF portraits will just break out the AD600 or AD200 etc. We will need the other flash for dancing as this wouldn’t cope without over hearing I would imagine but will give it a go.

So small

 

[f/1.2]

I was interested in just the X5s based on the initial release info - something cheap that could act as a basic trigger for my old Godox studio lights, but designed for the Sony Hotshoe (rather than my old XT16, which is 'generic', and I've never quite been comfortable with mounting in the A7iv hotshoe) - but now the info pages reveal the X5 requires the it32 mounted to act as a radio trigger for other Godox units

Yeah the X5 needs the flash as there is no other way to change settings.

 

[f/1.2]

View: https://youtu.be/sGNrsy_XFAM?si=QfEIAZmA3MpzE71d

don't know if this has been mentioned in here around 16min

Sonys response isn't exactly reassuring "We do not guarantee third party compatibility"
if this becomes a thing thats a terrible look for Sony and may affect those sticking with the brand

It will be up to the lens manufacturers to update their firmware which they will, happens with pretty much every new release. I had the same problems with the cheapy Samyang lenses for example when I got the A7CII firmware update sorted it.

 

[robj20]

I do expect it’s a software issue, but would expect a response that it is the issue,
I’ve not seen another review mention it either though.

All the other reviews I watched (not many granted) only use Sony lenses.
I like Kai if for no other reason he isn't afraid to say what he thinks. You can tell so many of the others are just yes men. Not a camera I'm slightly interested in as a camera but the sensors of the standards A7 range trickle down into the C range so this might be the Ciii eventually.
Increased DR and improvements to the IBIS are nice to have. I feel like I'm in the minority where I really don't care about the EVF and screen image quality as long as they're good enough to frame the shot I'm happy. I don't use the camera very often so millions of buttons just means I forget what more of them do.