The Amazing Sony A1/A7/A9/APS-C & Anything else welcome Mega Thread!

[f/1.2]

Looking for some
advice - A9 vs A7IV autofocus performance for Wedding Photography, which is best?

We have both camera's as well but I disagree with @f/1.4

For me the A9 has better a.f especially in situations like confetti run, bride coming up the aisle both going back down the aisle etc. The A7IV is no slouch though and there isn't too much in it to be fair. My missus also agree's.

I also prefer the A9 because of the electronic shutter, A7IV electronic shutter is basically useless because of banding. I also really dislike the flippy screen on the A7IV.

I wouldn't buy an A9 now though, if I needed to buy now I would probably buy an A9II or the A1, If budget is an issue the A7IV is grand.

A.F performance will also be very different depending on what lenses you are using, if you are using o.e.m glass and you are struggling with a.f you either have faulty equipment or it's your fault, because it just shouldn't happen. If you are using third party glass and in particular the much weaker preforming lenses like Samyang your gonna be in for a lot of butt hurt in terms of a.f.

 

[nandbytes]

Looking for some
advice - A9 vs A7IV autofocus performance for Wedding Photography, which is best?

Depends on how much you value electronic shutter and blackout free shooting which A9 has.
AF alone I feel A7IV is better because it now has the newer processor with the new AF algorithms. Animal eyeAF is better on the A7IV.
Ergonomics on the A7IV is better also.

The main reason for my consideration with moving to Sony is AF - although eh R6 is good for single subjects Eye AF, as soon as you have multiple subjects in the frame - it's as good as useless if you want to select which subject the eye AF sticks too. Slightly squinty eyes and it's away off into the background selecting a random subject. There's not much point using eye AF in those situations when you can't control it. I'm also keen to acquire nice native glass for which RF glass is eye watering-ly expensive. The 50mm f/1.8 RF is also very poor - soft and unreliable sharpness due to poor AF lock on. I just need to try and decide where I want to start my Sony journey. A1 is outside my budget at the moment, but perhaps a A7IV or a A9II with a A7III as backup

In my experience canon's AF (on R5) was pretty good tbh. I didn't shoot with many people in the frame, may be 2-3 and it wasn't an issue for me.
Glass weren't very good in terms of AF performance. The RF50/1.2, 85/1.2, 85mm f2 macro are all kinda slow focussing lenses. They are fine for shooting portraits I guess.
In comparison Sony's 50mm/1.2 is blazing fast and so is sigma 85mm f1.4 DN.

I used to have the A1 and I have swapped for the A7IV. AF wise A7IV is still incredibly capable, so I'd personally pick it over the A9/II.
May be try picking up an A7IV and an A7C for backup with small primes.

 

[nandbytes]

Wow, that's surprising.

not really tbh. A9 is pretty old now.

As you may have read above I encountered a scenario where eye-AF didn't work, and that's people wearing hats with low brims. I don't know if that's the same for Canon and Nikon though, I'd imagine it would be.

Seems to work fine with A7IV and A1 for me. Have tested with my son/wife wearing hats+sun glasses. Seemed to work without issues.

I was amazed that they didn't improve the screen for the A1, a £6.5k camera should have something better.

I am amazed too and still amazed they aren't adding any of useful features via. fw updates.

 

[f/1.4]

Depends on how much you value electronic shutter and blackout free shooting which A9 has.
AF alone I feel A7IV is better because it now has the newer processor with the new AF algorithms. Animal eyeAF is better on the A7IV.
Ergonomics on the A7IV is better also.



In my experience canon's AF (on R5) was pretty good tbh. I didn't shoot with many people in the frame, may be 2-3 and it wasn't an issue for me.
Glass weren't very good in terms of AF performance. The RF50/1.2, 85/1.2, 85mm f2 macro are all kinda slow focussing lenses. They are fine for shooting portraits I guess.
In comparison Sony's 50mm/1.2 is blazing fast and so is sigma 85mm f1.4 DN.

I used to have the A1 and I have swapped for the A7IV. AF wise A7IV is still incredibly capable, so I'd personally pick it over the A9/II.
May be try picking up an A7IV and an A7C for backup with small primes.

This is the area of AF that I meant was better. It picks up eyes / faces in a scene and hold on to them far better than an A9. The 50GM is practically on my wife’s camera all day and that lens is probably one of Sonys best AF lenses

Unless you value the silent shooting I’d say go with a 7IV

 

[snerkler]

not really tbh. A9 is pretty old now.


Seems to work fine with A7IV and A1 for me. Have tested with my son/wife wearing hats+sun glasses. Seemed to work without issues.


I am amazed too and still amazed they aren't adding any of useful features via. fw updates.

Hats in general are fine, however when the brim in low it struggled for me.

This was fine

A9_05065 by Toby Gunnee, on Flickr

This wasn't

A9_06236 by Toby Gunnee, on Flickr

I experimented with my wife wearing a baseball cap wearing it normally and then with the brim sat lower and I got the same results. YMMV

 

[f/1.2]

Hats in general are fine, however when the brim in low it struggled for me.

This was fine

A9_05065 by Toby Gunnee, on Flickr

This wasn't

A9_06236 by Toby Gunnee, on Flickr

I experimented with my wife wearing a baseball cap wearing it normally and then with the brim sat lower and I got the same results. YMMV

That is because of the Samyang lens to be fair nothing to do with the camera body

 

[gilbouk]

Seems to work fine with A7IV and A1 for me. Have tested with my son/wife wearing hats+sun glasses. Seemed to work without issues.

I'm sure there will be situations where AF eye detect won't pick up eyes when you can see them clearly through the viewfinder / on the screen - certainly this has been the case with the Nikon Z6 and Canon R6 anyway. It's the ability to jump over to a secondary AF method which intrigues me. On the Canon system, the normal AF with point selection, and the eye detect AF are completely separate - so if eye detect doesn't work, you need to be moving the AF spot from wherever it was - to wherever it should be before you can go onto normal AF point selection. By that time it's too late. I'm hoping that with Sony I can find a secondary method which will switch from Eye AF back to conventual AF seamlessly. I've seen that something like that is possible via YouTube videos I've seen with the options for configuration available. Certainly much more extensive setting options from what I've seen

 

[nandbytes]

Hats in general are fine, however when the brim in low it struggled for me.

This was fine

A9_05065 by Toby Gunnee, on Flickr

This wasn't

A9_06236 by Toby Gunnee, on Flickr

I experimented with my wife wearing a baseball cap wearing it normally and then with the brim sat lower and I got the same results. YMMV

I know I meant, low brim hats were fine.

In fact I just tried eyeAF on your picture on my computer screen and it pickups the eye just fine.

 

[f/1.2]

I know I meant, low brim hats were fine.

In fact I just tried eyeAF on your picture on my computer screen and it pickups the eye just fine.

View attachment 366814

Non Samyang lens though

 

[nandbytes]

I'm sure there will be situations where AF eye detect won't pick up eyes when you can see them clearly through the viewfinder / on the screen - certainly this has been the case with the Nikon Z6 and Canon R6 anyway. It's the ability to jump over to a secondary AF method which intrigues me. On the Canon system, the normal AF with point selection, and the eye detect AF are completely separate - so if eye detect doesn't work, you need to be moving the AF spot from wherever it was - to wherever it should be before you can go onto normal AF point selection. By that time it's too late. I'm hoping that with Sony I can find a secondary method which will switch from Eye AF back to conventual AF seamlessly. I've seen that something like that is possible via YouTube videos I've seen with the options for configuration available. Certainly much more extensive setting options from what I've seen

yeah you can set-up buttons so you can use another AF method if you regular one fails.
So for example I normally have AF-C with tracking on the AF-on button. My AEL button on the camera I have set to override to a single point AF without tracking and AF-S. So in a pinch I can always quickly focus and recompose if necessary.
Sony's are definitely more customisable but pain in the arse to customise if you are not used to doing it. But once you have spent a couple of hours setting it up you will never go into the menus again.

 

[gilbouk]

yeah you can set-up buttons so you can use another AF method if you regular one fails.
So for example I normally have AF-C with tracking on the AF-on button. My AEL button on the camera I have set to override to a single point AF without tracking and AF-S. So in a pinch I can always quickly focus and recompose if necessary.
Sony's are definitely more customisable but pain in the arse to customise if you are not used to doing it. But once you have spent a couple of hours setting it up you will never go into the menus again.

Sounds like I will have a steep learning curve to face ahead of me to get it to function as I please, but being able 'zone select' a face and if eye detect fails just use the same area to AF with tracking instead. Ideal for when the bride closes her eyes and laughs. At the moment as soon as she does that on Canon, I'm focusing on her Auntie in the background :-(. There's no confinement of the eye AF on a select portion of the frame

 

[snerkler]

That is because of the Samyang lens to be fair nothing to do with the camera body

Same happened with the Sigma 85mm DG DN and Sony 35mm f1.8.

 

[f/1.2]

Same happened with the Sigma 85mm DG DN and Sony 35mm f1.8.

In your previous post you said that the Sony performed well and it was the third party glass and specifically the Samyang that was a bit pants.

 

[gilbouk]

This is the area of AF that I meant was better. It picks up eyes / faces in a scene and hold on to them far better than an A9. The 50GM is practically on my wife’s camera all day and that lens is probably one of Sonys best AF lenses

Unless you value the silent shooting I’d say go with a 7IV

Would you say the 50GM is streets ahead of the 55mm FE Zeiss? I guess the price tag explains

 

[gilbouk]

Wandering along the Thames yesterday at Chiswick..... A7IV + Tamron 28-75 G2

DSC00002 by FusionX.Photo, on Flickr

DSC00021 by FusionX.Photo, on Flickr

DSC00019 by FusionX.Photo, on Flickr

Beautiful images - the Tamron 28-75mm G2 is definitely on my to-get list.

 

[snerkler]

I know I meant, low brim hats were fine.

In fact I just tried eyeAF on your picture on my computer screen and it pickups the eye just fine.

View attachment 366814

Just tried that with the Samyang and that too works fine from the photo on my laptop


IMG_2905 by Toby Gunnee, on Flickr

 

[gilbouk]

In your previous post you said that the Sony performed well and it was the third party glass and specifically the Samyang that was a bit pants.

Eye AF will never be flawless - in lots of situations it's going to see eyes in places there aren't any, or not see any eyes when they are clearly there. One example is swans - it always picks up wing tips or bent necks as eyes in certain angles

 

[f/1.4]

Would you say the 50GM is streets ahead of the 55mm FE Zeiss? I guess the price tag explains

I didn’t like the 55 Zeiss. There was something about the image that I just didn’t find pleasing. The 50GM is a lovely lens, expensive though lol

 

[f/1.2]

Eye AF will never be flawless - in lots of situations it's going to see eyes in places there aren't any, or not see any eyes when they are clearly there. One example is swans - it always picks up wing tips or bent necks as eyes in certain angles

I am a wedding photographer, I have no interest in chasing swans around the local park.

You haven't owned a Sony camera so on offence but I don't require advice on their capabilities from someone that hasn't got a clue.

 

[gilbouk]

Depends on how much you value electronic shutter and blackout free shooting which A9 has.
AF alone I feel A7IV is better because it now has the newer processor with the new AF algorithms. Animal eyeAF is better on the A7IV.
Ergonomics on the A7IV is better also.

I actually don't use electronic shutter much on the R6 because I'm so used to the audible click. The audible click on the R6 is so subtle compared to my old D750 I can't imagine it being hugely distracting. The other reason I prefer mechanical is I tend to take too many photos with electronic as I find it harder to perceive whether I actually took a photo!! I also seem to get a lot more exposure anomalies / I think it's artificial lighting flickering, and flickering reduction setting helps somewhat though. I don't think I'd be that fussed with the high frame rate tbh - I've never found that to be limiting unless the buffer stops me from taking more photos which I found annoying on the D750

 

[gilbouk]

I am a wedding photographer, I have no interest in chasing swans around the local park.

You haven't owned a Sony camera so on offence but I don't require advice on their capabilities from someone that hasn't got a clue.

How rude, and I have owned a Sony camera in the past. I use my cameras for both work and play

 

[nandbytes]

Would you say the 50GM is streets ahead of the 55mm FE Zeiss? I guess the price tag explains

I actually quite like the FE55, probably my favourite 50-ish lens. I just don't shoot 50mm lenses.

Sounds like I will have a steep learning curve to face ahead of me to get it to function as I please, but being able 'zone select' a face and if eye detect fails just use the same area to AF with tracking instead. Ideal for when the bride closes her eyes and laughs. At the moment as soon as she does that on Canon, I'm focusing on her Auntie in the background :-(. There's no confinement of the eye AF on a select portion of the frame

EyeAF works throughout the screen on Sony too. But you set it so if its focussing on the wrong person it stops eyeAF and you can revert back to the good old ways of focussing.
But generally speaking Sony will normally just focus on the person you point the single point to instead of finding the person next to them or in background.

 

[snerkler]

In your previous post you said that the Sony performed well and it was the third party glass and specifically the Samyang that was a bit pants.

No I said they all struggled but the Sony was a bit better than the others, occasionally finding the eyes in those scenarios with the Samyang being the worst, however it wasn’t night and day as they were all bad.

I don’t know if it makes a difference that I’m 6’4” and so tend to be shooting down a little when shooting portraits sometimes therefore the eyes more shielded from the brims of the hats.

Either way, I’ve learnt something and can adapt in situations like this

 

[f/1.2]

How rude, and I have owned a Sony camera in the past. I use my cameras for both work and play

How odd.

Then why ask the same questions over and over again?

You were asking very similar questions a long time ago and again just recently and now again.

Why ask the questions when you have already had a Sony camera before?

As for being rude I did say no offence was intended.

I have noticed you have previously done this as well in other areas of the forum, like for example way back when you thought people were "rude" when you said that you weren't able to nail focus when photographing a bride and dad in the back of the car at a wedding.

You took a similar approach in a thread about your website as well that I remember.

Anyway no worries I am gonna stick you on ignore and let you troll away to your hearts content.

 

[gilbouk]

I actually quite like the FE55, probably my favourite 50-ish lens. I just don't shoot 50mm lenses.

EyeAF works throughout the screen on Sony too. But you set it so if its focussing on the wrong person it stops eyeAF and you can revert back to the good old ways of focussing.
But generally speaking Sony will normally just focus on the person you point the single point to instead of finding the person next to them or in background.

Does the single AF point pick up from where you had eye AF locked on? Reason I ask is that when using the Eye AF on the R6, the single point could be at the other side of the frame. Ideally I'd like to select the area of the frame the face is in and for eye AF to lock on to the face in that selection area, and then when it fails - at least the selection area will be where I left it and I can then use the other AF mode to continue from where it left off. Hope that makes sense

 

[f/1.2]

No I said they all struggled but the Sony was a bit better than the others, occasionally finding the eyes in those scenarios with the Samyang being the worst, however it wasn’t night and day as they were all bad.

I don’t know if it makes a difference that I’m 6’4” and so tend to be shooting down a little when shooting portraits sometimes therefore the eyes more shielded from the brims of the hats.

Either way, I’ve learnt something and can adapt in situations like this

That sound likely to be fair.

Not a lot you can do about that.

I guess the best option if you have a smaller subject would be to either get lower and use the back screen to a,f and hold the camera lower. I often use my cameras from the hip myself.

 

[gilbouk]

How odd.

Then why ask the same questions over and over again?

You were asking very similar questions a long time ago and again just recently and now again.

Why ask the questions when you have already had a Sony camera before?

As for being rude I did say no offence was intended.

I have noticed you have previously done this as well in other areas of the forum, like for example way back when you thought people were "rude" when you said that you weren't able to nail focus when photographing a bride and dad in the back of the car at a wedding.

You took a similar approach in a thread about your website as well that I remember.

Anyway no worries I am gonna stick you on ignore and let you troll away to your hearts content.

Suits me - I get more pleasant and informative responses from other members.

 

[nandbytes]

Does the single AF point pick up from where you had eye AF locked on? Reason I ask is that when using the Eye AF on the R6, the single point could be at the other side of the frame. Ideally I'd like to select the area of the frame the face is in and for eye AF to lock on to the face in that selection area, and then when it fails - at least the selection area will be where I left it and I can then use the other AF mode to continue from where it left off. Hope that makes sense

I understand what you are getting at.... So the single point will find the eye of the person even if you point it at their torso.
If you use zone AF then the camera will normally find any eyes in that zone or rather the closest eye to the camera in that zone.
Sony obviously doesn't disclose how their AF exactly works but in my experience, if you use single point the camera will normally find the eye of the person you point it on, in zone or wide area it will find the closest eye to the camera in that area or zone.
Obviously it can also go wrong but I find Sony's human eyeAF to be as good as it gets at this point. Animal eyeAF seems a wee bit better on Canon. Nikon is a very distant 3rd place IME (though I have not used the Z9).

 

[Fuji Dave]

I never really gave most of my Sony cameras a chance, but the one I did keep is the A7 III and eye AF is quick enough for me what ever lens I have on.

Simon by Rohan, on Flickr

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

Suits me - I get more pleasant and informative responses from other members.

He does that with anyone that calls him out or doesn't kiss his arse.
Arrogant and obnoxious person best left on ignore......

 

[gilbouk]

He does that with anyone that calls him out or doesn't kiss his arse.
Arrogant and obnoxious person best left on ignore......

Using 'doesn't have a clue' in a forum with people of different levels of knowledge is uncalled for - even if you use 'no offence intended' before it. And also slating somebodies hobby.... Oh well, maybe he'll get a better reception from other members.

 

[Cobra]

OK Guy's that is quite enough with personal attacks, move on please!

 

[snerkler]

I understand what you are getting at.... So the single point will find the eye of the person even if you point it at their torso.
If you use zone AF then the camera will normally find any eyes in that zone or rather the closest eye to the camera in that zone.
Sony obviously doesn't disclose how their AF exactly works but in my experience, if you use single point the camera will normally find the eye of the person you point it on, in zone or wide area it will find the closest eye to the camera in that area or zone.
Obviously it can also go wrong but I find Sony's human eyeAF to be as good as it gets at this point. Animal eyeAF seems a wee bit better on Canon. Nikon is a very distant 3rd place IME (though I have not used the Z9).

I’m trying to remember how flexible spot tracking worked for me the other day but you know what my memory’s like IIRC if I had the AF point on the L side of the screen and then allowed it to track across to the right whilst shooting a subject I’m pretty sure it then went back to the initial place on the left once I’d stopped tracking, is that right?

 

[nandbytes]

I’m trying to remember how flexible spot tracking worked for me the other day but you know what my memory’s like IIRC if I had the AF point on the L side of the screen and then allowed it to track across to the right whilst shooting a subject I’m pretty sure it then went back to the initial place on the left once I’d stopped tracking, is that right?

yep the point will remain where you last put it.
I rarely move points these days since the tracking is so good, I just focus as recompose and tracking always has whatever subject in focus.

 

[ukaskew]

I know a lot of wedding photographers your the only one I have ever seen say they were happy with Samyang eye a.f performance. Maybe you have been incredibly lucky with getting good copies. Or maybe it isn’t as big an issue if you have only shot 15 weddings this year.

Bit passive-aggressive there. Just mentioned the number to show that I wasn't making a statement off of 6 photos of my cat. "Only" 15 weddings is still around 50,000 frames, which as samples go is certainly big enough for me to have come to the conclusions I have. If my opinion isn't welcome here then fair enough...

 

[f/1.2]

Bit passive-aggressive there. Just mentioned the number to show that I wasn't making a statement off of 6 photos of my cat. "Only" 15 weddings is still around 50,000 frames, which as samples go is certainly big enough for me to have come to the conclusions I have. If my opinion isn't welcome here then fair enough...

Passive aggresive

What?

Your opinion is as welcome as everyone else's of course.

I understand what you are saying but 15 weddings isn't an awful lot. I was however backing up what you were saying, when I said that someone else who has shot over 70 wedding this year so far agreed with you in terms of the Samyang 135mm.

While also stating that all of the other wedding photographers I know would not agree with you, as you are the only one I have ever seen that was happy across the board with Samyang eye a.f performance in real life situations at weddings.

 

[ancient_mariner]

Would you say the 50GM is streets ahead of the 55mm FE Zeiss? I guess the price tag explains

The 55 is the lens I take when I need across the frame sharpness. If rendering is more important then I take something else, usually a Samyang.

 

[snerkler]

yep the point will remain where you last put it.
I rarely move points these days since the tracking is so good, I just focus as recompose and tracking always has whatever subject in focus.

Thanks, I've just tried it myself and yes if you have the AF point on the left, even if it tracks across to the right it will be back on the left next time you shoot. It's odd that I use this all the time but never registered what happens

I rarely move the AF point either, however my experience of eye-AF is different to how you explained it to @gilbouk

If I use single point AF, either in tracking or non tracking mode, the frame will show a light grey box around the face/eye of the subject however the AF point will not 'jump' to that area unless I am within a few pixels away, so if I have the AF point over the torso it will focus on the torso and not jump to the eye. The only AF mode I've tried that will 'automatically' jump to the eye is wide af. With Zone modes it will jump to the eye IF the grey box highlighting the eye is within the zone otherwise it will focus on whatever is in that zone.

 

[gilbouk]

If I use single point AF, either in tracking or non tracking mode, the frame will show a light grey box around the face/eye of the subject however the AF point will not 'jump' to that area unless I am within a few pixels away, so if I have the AF point over the torso it will focus on the torso and not jump to the eye. The only AF mode I've tried that will 'automatically' jump to the eye is wide af. With Zone modes it will jump to the eye IF the grey box highlighting the eye is within the zone otherwise it will focus on whatever is in that zone.

That behaviour sounds more intuitive to my current canon setup - plus it sounds like it won't jump to a subject outside of the zone, which makes sense!! I imagine you can move the Zone about easily enough?

 

[nandbytes]

If I use single point AF, either in tracking or non tracking mode, the frame will show a light grey box around the face/eye of the subject however the AF point will not 'jump' to that area unless I am within a few pixels away, so if I have the AF point over the torso it will focus on the torso and not jump to the eye. The only AF mode I've tried that will 'automatically' jump to the eye is wide af. With Zone modes it will jump to the eye IF the grey box highlighting the eye is within the zone otherwise it will focus on whatever is in that zone.

I have generalised a little, I suppose it depends for example on how big the subject is in the frame etc. But I rarely need to point my centre point at the face of a person for it to lock on to the eye. It generally finds them without much problems.