The Amazing Sony A1/A7/A9/APS-C & Anything else welcome Mega Thread!

Banding under flickering lighting can be inconsistent if your shutter speed varies with multiples of mains frequency reportedly being OK. I've never tried matching shutter speed to mains, IMO it's best just to avoid the electronic shutter if it could be an issue.
 
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robj20 said:
No I don't have a crystal ball. Didn't have one when I had the A7R and waited the 8+ years for the A7C either. I think there are still a few of us in here that just don't upgrade all the time for the sake of it, has to be a meaningful reason, not just new shiny shiny.
I know for a fact it's going to be at least another 8 years if not even longer this time before i even consider anything else.

And yeah looks like it's doing terrible.
cameratimes.org

CAPA: Sony a7C is the Best Selling Camera in the First Half of June 2021 - Camera Times

The Japanese website CAPA Camera announced the top-selling camera rankings at the Yodobashi shopping site and 24 Yodobashi Camera stores nationwide in the first half of June 2021. The Sony a7C with
cameratimes.org
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That's just for half a month though.

But looking at Japanese market A7C is in the top ten sold (and the only other FF camera in the top then, other being canon RP)
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I don't think its doing terrible tbh. A6000 style cameras have generally been very popular which is why they are just so adamant to not changing the design and adding a forefinger dial (its already selling so well why would you change it?)
In fact the A6000 has been in the top ten sellers since its release (its still on most lists!) Sony even tried discontinuing it and its still selling :ROFLMAO:
 
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nandbytes said:
I don't think its doing terrible tbh. A6000 style cameras have generally been very popular which is why they are just so adamant to not changing the design and adding a forefinger dial (its already selling so well why would you change it?)
In fact the A6000 has been in the top ten sellers since its release (its still on most lists!) Sony even tried discontinuing it and its still selling :ROFLMAO:
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I don't know for sure but I'd guess that a good proportion of buyers will be in full auto mode and will probably rarely if ever use aperture or shutter speed controls so Sony could probably drop the lot and still sell them by the boatload.

For the odd stick in the mud like me it's a killer but the likes of me are a dwindling minority in the market plus any younger ones getting into photography with have no problem back wheeling all day with their over developed thumbs from all that smartphone usage :D
 
woof woof said:
I don't know for sure but I'd guess that a good proportion of buyers will be in full auto mode and will probably rarely if ever use aperture or shutter speed controls so Sony could probably drop the lot and still sell them by the boatload.

For the odd stick in the mud like me it's a killer but the likes of me are a dwindling minority in the market plus any younger ones getting into photography with have no problem back wheeling all day with their over developed thumbs from all that smartphone usage :D
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While you may be right in your analysis of the buyers, Sony don't care who buys them as long as they are buying them :D

I think that's the reason they made the A1 in a smaller size body unlike Canonikon who went for large bloated bodies. Enthusiasts and people like me would never buy a sports body and there are more of us than sport togs.
 
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woof woof said:
Banding under flickering lighting can be inconsistent if your shutter speed varies with multiples of mains frequency reportedly being UK. I've never tried matching shutter speed to mains, IMO it's best just to avoid the electronic shutter if it could be an issue.
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I think I was using 1/400 or 1/500, I'll check. First time I've ever seen this and I've photographed there and similar many times. Maybe they changed their LEDs lol
 
Those shutter speeds should be divisible by 50 (mains frequency) and therefore, the argument goes, should be better for avoiding banding.

As I said, I've never tried to avoid banding as once I saw it and understood what it was I stopped using the electronic shutter if I thought it was going to be a problem. This is with my Panasonic cameras, my A7 doesn't have an electronic shutter.

I suppose in a big venue with three phase some lighting could be on a different phase with others in the same room, if different banks/rows are fed from different phases and I suppose this could potentially cause an issue even if you're using shutter speeds divisible by 50. Back when I was an electrician it was pretty standard to do that.
 
gman said:
I think I was using 1/400 or 1/500, I'll check. First time I've ever seen this and I've photographed there and similar many times. Maybe they changed their LEDs lol
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It's a bit hit and miss with flicker. The A9 is the only current gen Sony to not have anti-flicker, but it is also the oldest.


All the rest have it in non-silent modes, and only the A1 has it in silent mode.
 
I'll need to keep an eye out for this then as I always use electronic shutter and silent. I find mechanical shutters so uncivilised now lol A bit like pumping your left foot in a car to change gear... auto all the way for me.
 
gman said:
I'll need to keep an eye out for this then as I always use electronic shutter and silent. I find mechanical shutters so uncivilised now lol A bit like pumping your left foot in a car to change gear... auto all the way for me.
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The A7 is a bit clattery, isn't it. But I never really feel comy with electronic shutter.
 
gman said:
I'll need to keep an eye out for this then as I always use electronic shutter and silent. I find mechanical shutters so uncivilised now lol A bit like pumping your left foot in a car to change gear... auto all the way for me.
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it would happen either way with the A9 anyway.

I never use silent on the A7iii as there's too much rolling shutter effect.
 
I can't think of the last time I used anything other than full electronic on the C.
 
KitsuneAndy said:
It's flicker, the A9 doesn't have anti flicker
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I didn’t realise that.
woof woof said:
Those shutter speeds should be divisible by 50 (mains frequency) and therefore, the argument goes, should be better for avoiding banding.

As I said, I've never tried to avoid banding as once I saw it and understood what it was I stopped using the electronic shutter if I thought it was going to be a problem. This is with my Panasonic cameras, my A7 doesn't have an electronic shutter.

I suppose in a big venue with three phase some lighting could be on a different phase with others in the same room, if different banks/rows are fed from different phases and I suppose this could potentially cause an issue even if you're using shutter speeds divisible by 50. Back when I was an electrician it was pretty standard to do that.
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I don’t think shutter speed makes much difference when using the electronic shutter as it’s the readout time of the sensor that’s the issue I believe.
 
snerkler said:
I didn’t realise that.

I don’t think shutter speed makes much difference when using the electronic shutter as it’s the readout time of the sensor that’s the issue I believe.
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It's why I went A7 III instead of A9 at the time. I thought anti-flicker and picture profiles for video (HLG and S-LOG) would be better than being able to use it in silent in more situations. Don't regret the decision :) They've served me well so far.
 
Sony FDR AX53 camcorder as a stills as well as video work




Ok time for spending a bit of cash. So I have beem looking at getting a wide angle lens for my camcorder, and not easy to find one that fits the camcorder lens thread of 55mm. However again with research I came up with the choice of three.
First was the Neewer (also sold under Tectra, Altura) but what put me off straight away although it had the widest front but not designed specifically for this camcorder
Screenshot (15)
with the camcorder at its widest the lens attachment showed up around the edge and was out of focus on the sides. So have to zoom in a bit to avoid.This was an instant nono to purchase. After all one should not have to adjust a zoom first when wide open

Next was the lens by bower which I went for in the end. Hopefully being a bit shorter than the Neewer.
Screenshot (16)
Screenshot (17)
Ok it has a smaller front end but being shorter should allow for prevention of the lens ring showing. Also can be used as a macro lens. OK the tower leans back a bit granted but that can be easily corrected in PP, the point is it will still be in shot

Last was the Raynox but at about 4x the cost out of the question
So settled for the BOWER version on the basis that as shown in picture of the building it shows the top of the tower, as well as being wide with no loss of sharpness on the sides.
One pain in the backside is this like many photographic accessories are not available in the UK or not that I could find new so ordered from the USA
Those pictures can be seen better on the website if interested

so why get one anyway?

simple answer is a lot of my building photos and others do not show the top without standing so far way then other details get lost. then again going too wide any buildings either side look as though they are leaning towards the photo centre.

Please ask if you have any questions about this and I will do my best to answer
 
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woof woof said:
Those shutter speeds should be divisible by 50 (mains frequency) and therefore, the argument goes, should be better for avoiding banding.

As I said, I've never tried to avoid banding as once I saw it and understood what it was I stopped using the electronic shutter if I thought it was going to be a problem. This is with my Panasonic cameras, my A7 doesn't have an electronic shutter.

I suppose in a big venue with three phase some lighting could be on a different phase with others in the same room, if different banks/rows are fed from different phases and I suppose this could potentially cause an issue even if you're using shutter speeds divisible by 50. Back when I was an electrician it was pretty standard to do that.
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I've gone and checked and I was at 1/250 when it wasn't doing it on the first ride.

When moving to the next ride it was the worst banding and this occurred at 1/400 (I never uploaded these ones but it's a huge black band across about 6th of the screen).

When I changed to 1/250 at the same ride the banding wasn't as bad as can be seen by the uploads I did.

The trees were 1/250 with mild banding and the kitchen at home was 1/250 with no banding.

Oh well, I'll just have to remember to change to mechanical shutter.
 
snerkler said:
I didn’t realise that.

I don’t think shutter speed makes much difference when using the electronic shutter as it’s the readout time of the sensor that’s the issue I believe.
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People say that using shutter speeds which are multiples of the mains voltage frequency reduces the risk. There are lots of sites about this if you Google. As above, I don't bother trying to avoid it now and just use the mechanical shutter if I think the lighting is going to be an issue. Anyone with a camera with an electronic shutter and access to flickering lighting and the patience to go though this could do a little experiment and report back on any effective shutter speeds.
 
woof woof said:
People say that using shutter speeds which are multiples of the mains voltage frequency reduces the risk. There are lots of sites about this if you Google. As above, I don't bother trying to avoid it now and just use the mechanical shutter if I think the lighting is going to be an issue. Anyone with a camera with an electronic shutter and access to flickering lighting and the patience to go though this could do a little experiment and report back on any effective shutter speeds.
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I'm always happy to be proven wrong but I'm pretty sure that it's to do with the sensor readout time rather than the shutter speed when using the electronic shutter. The sensor has a finite readout time which is not influenced by shutter speed hence things like rolling shutter. If the LED artefacts were as simple as it being the shutter speed you could just change that rather than having to change to mechanical shutter and choosing a shutter speed that isn't divisible by 50 (y)
 
snerkler said:
I'm always happy to be proven wrong but I'm pretty sure that it's to do with the sensor readout time rather than the shutter speed when using the electronic shutter. The sensor has a finite readout time which is not influenced by shutter speed hence things like rolling shutter. If the LED artefacts were as simple as it being the shutter speed you could just change that rather than having to change to mechanical shutter and choosing a shutter speed that isn't divisible by 50 (y)
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I know about readout speed but have you read the various sites discussing this and seen the example pictures or tried yourself?

People seem to be claiming that they can get improved results by matching multiples of mains frequency although as above I haven't bothered trying myself.
 
woof woof said:
I know about readout speed but have you read the various sites discussing this and seen the example pictures or tried yourself?

People seem to be claiming that they can get improved results by matching multiples of mains frequency although as above I haven't bothered trying myself.
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Taken direct from the Fuji site regarding banding with the electronic shutters.

Screenshot 2021-10-25 at 09.39.35.png



Here's a video to show how adjusting the shutter speed using mechanical shutter helps avoid banding.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9szxjLuruw&ab_channel=Sony



Is this what you meant or am I missing the point? (y)
 
I haven't seen that video but I have seen others and read discussions which seem to show that matching the mains frequency can help but the previous poster was using a multiple of 50 and still had an issue. So what is the case? I don't know. As I said above I have seen banding with my Panasonic cameras but decided that I wouldn't bother trying to get rid of it as I don't want to spend too much time faffing on with shutter speeds so I just use the mechanical shutter if I think lighting is going to be an issue.
 
woof woof said:
I haven't seen that video but I have seen others and read discussions which seem to show that matching the mains frequency can help but the previous poster was using a multiple of 50 and still had an issue. So what is the case? I don't know. As I said above I have seen banding with my Panasonic cameras but decided that I wouldn't bother trying to get rid of it as I don't want to spend too much time faffing on with shutter speeds so I just use the mechanical shutter if I think lighting is going to be an issue.
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The issue was he was using electronic shutter (y)
 
snerkler said:
The issue was he was using electronic shutter (y)
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That's what I've been talking about. Banding under artificial lighting when using the electronic shutter. I've seen this myself and it can be shot ruining but don't try to avoid it with the electronic shutter, I just use mechanical. If you google it there's multiple sites/discussions about electronic shutter banding and how to avoid or fix it with example pictures. I can't claim that I know that using shutter speeds multiple of the mains frequency helps, but some are saying it does although it doesn't seem to have in the examples in this thread. Due to pressures at home I can't do any experimenting myself at the mo.
 
Here's one... with example pictures...

johnplatt.com.au

Electronic Shutters, Banding & Solving the problem - John Platt

Mirrorless cameras offer both mechanical and Electronic Shutters. It's important to understand and solve the issues electronic shutters can cause.
johnplatt.com.au johnplatt.com.au

Here 1/50 and 1/100 look ok but 1/200 looks horrid.

Make of that what you will.

If things settle down here I might do my own tests, just for fun :D
 
woof woof said:
That's what I've been talking about. Banding under artificial lighting when using the electronic shutter. I've seen this myself and it can be shot ruining but don't try to avoid it with the electronic shutter, I just use mechanical. If you google it there's multiple sites/discussions about electronic shutter banding and how to avoid or fix it with example pictures. I can't claim that I know that using shutter speeds multiple of the mains frequency helps, but some are saying it does although it doesn't seem to have in the examples in this thread. Due to pressures at home I can't do any experimenting myself at the mo.
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I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing tbh. Here's what I mean:-

Electronic shutter : Banding under artificial light (and flash) > changing the shutter speed doesn't fix the problem because the limitation is the sensor readout.

Mechanical shutter : Banding under artificial light > Changing the shutter speed and/or timing of the shutter can fix the problem (y)
 
I don't know about the effects of flash. All I was talking about was the effect as seen when using the electronic shutter under flickering lights.

There's bound to be something online covering electronic shutter + flickering lights + flash but I haven't specifically been looking for info including flash. So. I know nothing :D But when I can I may experiment myself, but I can't at he mo.

I've never seen this banding when using a mechanical shutter, ever, but I very rarely use a flash.
 
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woof woof said:
I don't know about the effects of flash. All I was talking about was the effect as seen when using the electronic shutter under flickering lights.

There's bound to be something online covering electronic shutter + flickering lights + flash but I haven't specifically been looking for info including flash. So. I know nothing :D But when I can I may experiment myself, but I can't at he mo.

I've never seen this banding when using a mechanical shutter, ever, but I very rarely use a flash.
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So was I :p

I'm getting confused now (easily done with me :lol:) We've both linked articles showing why we get banding with artificial lights and electronic shutter, and why you can work around banding with mechanical shutter. With regards to the flash it's simply because the speed of the flash is quicker than the sensor readout time so whilst the flash might be on for start of the sensor scan it's off, or at least dimmed by the time the sensor has finished it's scan (y)
 
As an Xperia owner anyway, Id be up for this...
However Sony phones are very expensive so I would have to wait and see what the price is...
 
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