The Amazing Sony A1/A7/A9/APS-C & Anything else welcome Mega Thread!

f/2.8 said:
I can't speak for anyone else and we all have to learn the game and start somewhere. I personally found as our prices increased we needed to find new ways of finding clients as people with different budgets hang out in different places.

I don't know if you are part time or full time but charging at that pricing level will mean as you have said yourself you will never the option of doing anything really in terms of marketing. There is a reason why the average cost of a wedding photographer is around £1000. Marketing is a must really and you will need some sort of budget for it.

If you are part time maybe don't worry if you are only doing weddings for beer tokens you could easily stay at your current pricing level and still get work just based on price alone.

If you are full time or looking to go full time those prices won't be sustainable as once you pay for income tax, national insurance, on going equipment cost and insurance, website plus marketing etc. you are going to be making a huge loss if you are competing on the same level as the other average Joe wedding photographers.

No budget for marketing no matter how you do it, means no bookings. Bookings don't just appear out of thin air. Yes absolutely do a great job and you will get recommendations but you will struggle to run a full time wedding photography business on that alone just because the market is so saturated.

I know a lot of other wedding photographers including those at the cheaper end, I consider us to be at the cheaper end, but then there is cheap and then there is ridiculously cheap. From the sounds of it you have fallen into the trap that a lot of new wedding photographers do as in you have found that you can get bookings at a really dirt cheap price and have been afraid to take that jump to the next pricing level in case you lose that. Problem is if you don't jump at some point it will too late. You will find that you will get a rep for being that cheap guy. The problem with that is that when you do get recommendations those people will expect those ridiculously cheap prices as well and because you will never have the budget for marketing you end up stuck in a loop of not earning enough to work properly and ever decreasing level of bookings.

You will probably find that there is couples out there who have looked at you and not booked because it seemed a bit dodgy that you where so ridiculously cheap.

Don't get to hung up on numbers on social media. Just to give you an idea we have over 13k followers on Instagram and over 7k on Facebook and it means absolutely nothing, if we relied purely on social media for work we would be done within months. Social media is great as part of an overall marketing strategy but should never be the only thing you are looking at in terms of promoting yourself.

There is a guy local to me, he is very busy but I know that he spends £800 on adwords a month, £500 on social media adverts a month and has a company that looks after his website and S.E.O at £600 a month. He is also present at all the larger local wedding fayres and advertises in a lot of the local wedding rags. That is what you are potentially competing against.
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Really insightful information. You are completely right about being stuck in a trap and I really appreciate your openness and information you've gone to the trouble of sharing.

I do need to put my price up again, and look at delivering less photos - so I have time to do more than just processing.
 
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gilbouk said:
Really insightful information. You are completely right about being stuck in a trap and I really appreciate your openness and information you've gone to the trouble of sharing .
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You don’t want to be know as the cheap photographer, you want to be know as the great photographer.

And cost is relative.
 
gilbouk said:
Really insightful information. You are completely right about being stuck in a trap and I really appreciate your openness and information you've gone to the trouble of sharing.

I do need to put my price up again, and look at delivering less photos - so I have time to do more than just processing.
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One thing to remember is that yes it will be more difficult to get bookings as you increase prices but would you rather do 20 weddings at £1000 or do 40 at £500 I know what I would rather do. :)
 
gilbouk said:
I'm going to try this approach - I've been spending £20 in a few days - on and off - with no enquiries. Perhaps directing people to my website and doing a slow burner like yourself might give me better results. Thanks for the info
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theres a thread I started in the business section a year or two ago that may help you out. I’ll see if I can did it out when I’m on the computer. It’s called “Not Going to Plan”

I’ve done the same as you, started low, then you effectively start all over again when you raise your prices! I wouldn’t care about how many weddings, it’s more about how much profit you’re making. I’ve got 39 this year but only 15/16 in the diary for next year. BUT they average sale is much higher.


If you’re doing 60-70 weddings a year and making less than you could earn sitting on a checkout in supermarket then that’s a bit silly.

Also I said this further up, summer goes really quiet for bookings so don’t panic. As a rule I don’t do much marketing over Christmas, and the summer holidays.
 
Raymond Lin said:
You don’t want to be know as the cheap photographer, you want to be know as the great photographer.

And cost is relative.
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I guess I've priced myself based on some of my competition. I've seen a 2 photographer team offering all day photography and videography at £550 and my worry is that the majority would go for their package as opposed to my £649 photography one man band option
 
gilbouk said:
I guess I've priced myself based on some of my competition. I've seen a 2 photographer team offering all day photography and videography at £550 and my worry is that the majority would go for their package as opposed to my £649 photography one man band option
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They can’t be available for every date :LOL:

Forget about what everyone else doing, concentrate on what you want to do.

I honestly couldn’t tell you what other photographers in my area charge. I have zero interest. There is no point trying to compete on price work out your costs add how much you need to get by and devide by the amount of wedding you think you can book. Then as time goes on keep looking at it and increasing where needed to cover additional costs and to up your profit.

Work on setting yourself apart from other who may fall into a similar price bracket by doing better work.
 
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f/2.8 said:
One thing to remember is that yes it will be more difficult to get bookings as you increase prices but would you rather do 20 weddings at £1000 or do 40 at £500 I know what I would rather do. :)
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I hear you - I just need to take the plunge.
 
T_J_G said:
theres a thread I started in the business section a year or two ago that may help you out. I’ll see if I can did it out when I’m on the computer. It’s called “Not Going to Plan”

I’ve done the same as you, started low, then you effectively start all over again when you raise your prices! I wouldn’t care about how many weddings, it’s more about how much profit you’re making. I’ve got 39 this year but only 15/16 in the diary for next year. BUT they average sale is much higher.


If you’re doing 60-70 weddings a year and making less than you could earn sitting on a checkout in supermarket then that’s a bit silly.

Also I said this further up, summer goes really quiet for bookings so don’t panic. As a rule I don’t do much marketing over Christmas, and the summer holidays.
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Very true, I feel I'm doing it because I enjoy it and the profit thing hasn't really worked out yet. I've got a good portfolio now and need to focus on the money side of things if I'm to stick at it.

I'll need to start again effectively as I'm realising that potential customers will be expecting the prices their friends paid
 
f/2.8 said:
They can’t be available for every date :LOL:

Forget about what everyone else doing, concentrate on what you want to do.

I honestly couldn’t tell you what other photographers in my area charge. I have zero interest. There is no point trying to compete on price work out your costs add how much you need to get by and devide by the amount of wedding you think you can book. Then as time goes on keep looking at it and increasing where needed to cover additional costs and to up your profit.

Work on setting yourself apart from other who may fall into a similar price bracket by doing better work.
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Absolutely, and then I can enjoy buying more gear . I gave up my 200-500 and miss wildlife photography dreadfully. And I do fancy a dabble in the Sony Full Frame world. All but a dream at the moment
 
And don't get upset if someone choose another photographer over you.

They are just not your client, they never were to begin with. Not until they signed and paid. Even then....I've had 2 when they cancelled after payment.
 
T_J_G said:
theres a thread I started in the business section a year or two ago that may help you out. I’ll see if I can did it out when I’m on the computer. It’s called “Not Going to Plan”
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I really like how people have dissected aspects of your website and offered constructive critique.

A few things which I probably wouldn't have followed - like listing in a free directory alongside hundreds of other photographers. I can't see that at being effective when you could end up on page 73 of 134 pages of other photographers, or worse -page 134

Perhaps I should start a new thread and let people see where I am at with my website.

Is that a good idea with google searches for my website bringing clients to such discussions where forum members may suggest I'm crap
 
gilbouk said:
I really like how people have dissected aspects of your website and offered constructive critique.

A few things which I probably wouldn't have followed - like listing in a free directory alongside hundreds of other photographers. I can't see that at being effective when you could end up on page 73 of 134 pages of other photographers, or worse -page 134

Perhaps I should start a new thread and let people see where I am at with my website.

Is that a good idea with google searches for my website bringing clients to such discussions where forum members may suggest I'm crap
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Posts in the business section aren’t crawled by google it is blocked by the sites robots.txt file.
 
I went from £350 (year one) to £450 (year two) to £600 (year 3) and £800 this year. Next year is £900 and I'll be quite happy to settle at £1k if bookings stay relatively flat. The ultimate aim is to go part-time in my weekday job and supplement that with 25 ish weddings. I lucked out big time in that weddings snowballed from a few, I ended up at a wedding where I'd photographed all 3 bridesmaids weddings within the past 18 months!

The first two years were big losses given insurance, PLI, website hosting, advertising, travel etc and then the tax bill at the end, but its settled down now.

It is possible to be too cheap, I've heard several people say they wouldn't look at photographers under £1k and I've also read exactly that 'advice' in major bridal magazines.
 
ukaskew said:
I went from £350 (year one) to £450 (year two) to £600 (year 3) and £800 this year. Next year is £900 and I'll be quite happy to settle at £1k if bookings stay relatively flat. The ultimate aim is to go part-time in my weekday job and supplement that with 25 ish weddings. I lucked out big time in that weddings snowballed from a few, I ended up at a wedding where I'd photographed all 3 bridesmaids weddings within the past 18 months!

The first two years were big losses given insurance, PLI, website hosting, advertising, travel etc and then the tax bill at the end, but its settled down now.

It is possible to be too cheap, I've heard several people say they wouldn't look at photographers under £1k and I've also read exactly that 'advice' in major bridal magazines.
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Yes 100% price is perception of quality. Our basic packages are £1200-£1400 and I know we have lost bookings by clients and planners as they viewed us as cheap.

Most clients haven't got the the foggiest of the difference between a good photo and a great photo
 
f/2.8 said:
No APSC lenses?

Now they have the 16-55 f/2.8 there is not much missing.
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Have you looked at Fujis line up? Sony APSC is missing pretty much all of them. Looking quickly Sony has very few decent APSC options...

10-18 4
16-55 2.8
24 1.8
35 1.8
50 1.8

And thats about it unless people buy into or own FE already.
 
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twist said:
Have you looked at Fujis line up? Sony APSC is missing pretty much all of them.
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Nothing Fuji has is as good as the Sigma 16mm, 30mm and 56mm. I can’t think of one Fuji lens that would be a must buy to be honest.
 
twist said:
Have you looked at Fujis line up? Sony APSC is missing pretty much all of them. Looking quickly Sony has very few decent APSC options...

10-18
16-55
24 1.8
35 1.8
50 1.8

And thats about it unless people buy into or own FE already.
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I wouldn't really count the 24mm or the 35mm tbh.
But sigma primes help to some extent.
 
f/2.8 said:
Nothing Fuji has is as good as the Sigma 16mm, 30mm and 56mm. I can’t think of one Fuji lens that would be a must buy to be honest.
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Their 16mm/1.4, 23mm/1.4, 35mm/1.4 and 56mm/1.2 are all optically great
 
gilbouk said:
I really like how people have dissected aspects of your website and offered constructive critique.

A few things which I probably wouldn't have followed - like listing in a free directory alongside hundreds of other photographers. I can't see that at being effective when you could end up on page 73 of 134 pages of other photographers, or worse -page 134

Perhaps I should start a new thread and let people see where I am at with my website.

Is that a good idea with google searches for my website bringing clients to such discussions where forum members may suggest I'm crap
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It was a very helpful thread when I made it. Bear in mind i've revamped my site twice since then. Free listings may offer a tiny bit of SEO juice. It wasn't about gaining enquiries through them.
 
nandbytes said:
I think he has a problem with any lens that can't AF at 100% performance regardless of the optical qualities ;)
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Samyang lenses dog crap, non Sony GM lenses crap, Fuji lenses crap, Canikon lenses crap, Sigma lenses (dont AF quite as well as native) but owns, great. :D
 
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twist said:
Samyang lenses dog crap, non Sony GM lenses crap, Fuji lenses crap, Canikon lenses crap, Sigma lenses (dont AF quite as well as native) but owns, great. :D
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You dont have spout some b******t on here.

I have the Sony35 f/1.8, 85mm f/1.8, 55mm f/1.8, 90mm f/2.8, 70-200 f/4, Tamron 17-28 & Tamron 28-75 none of those are GM lenses

I only have one Sigma lens which as I have said on here previously I have fallen out of love with quite a bit.

Samyang a.f lenses are crap.

There are quite a few Nikon & Canon lenses that I rate very highly.
 
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f/2.8 said:
I have the Sony35 f/1.8, 85mm f/1.8, 90mm f/2.8, 70-200 f/4, Tamron 17-28 & Tamron 28-75 none of those are GM lenses

I only have one Sigma lens which as I have said on here previously I have fallen out of love with quite a bit.

Samyang a.f lenses are crap.
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I am surprised the way you talk about the non GMs, why would you even keep them?

So how do you know the Sigma APSC lenses are that much better than the excellent Fuji line up, have you compared both?
 
twist said:
I am surprised the way you talk about the non GMs, why would you even keep them?

So how do you know the Sigma APSC lenses are that much better than the excellent Fuji line up, have you compared both?
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Yes, I have had some Fuji stuff which now belongs to my brother in law and I had all of those Sigma lenses until recently.
 
twist said:
So you sold the Sigmas because they are crap?
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Nope, they were very good. I sold them because I no longer have an APSC camera as I have upgraded my personal camera to an A7RIV or I should say I will have once my pre-order is dispatched.
 
gilbouk said:
I've seen a 2 photographer team offering all day photography and videography at £550
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Its been 7 years since my wedding but I would run a mile away from a photographer and videographer duo who do all day for £550 all in! Thats far too cheap and just sounds like they are probably both crap! That's my impression of that cost.They would only be making £275 each and less than that once they take out running cots etc. I know some B&G's may think they are on to a winner but you get what you pay for. If you pay peanuts you get monkeys, simple as that really.
 
f/2.8 said:
Nothing Fuji has is as good as the Sigma 16mm, 30mm and 56mm. I can’t think of one Fuji lens that would be a must buy to be honest.
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The Fuji 16mm 1.4 mops the floor with the Sigma, so there's that. The Fuji 56 1.2 is more than a match for the Sigma 56 1.4 and I believe the 30mm is the weaker of those 3 but I would be confident that besides the extra stop of light the Fuji 35 F2 would at least level it. I do wish SIgma would produce lenses for Fuji though, as they would be cheaper, and they do tend to be very good.
 
Cagey75 said:
The Fuji 16mm 1.4 mops the floor with the Sigma, so there's that. The Fuji 56 1.2 is more than a match for the Sigma 56 1.4 and I believe the 30mm is the weaker of those 3 but I would be confident that besides the extra stop of light the Fuji 35 F2 would at least level it. I do wish SIgma would produce lenses for Fuji though, as they would be cheaper, and they do tend to be very good.
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My brother in law has the 16mm and the 56mm Fuji. Can’t say I was that impressed with either. As mentioned above for me autofocus performance is important and I didn’t find either of those lenses to be as good as the Sigma equivalents. Haven’t ever used the 35mm though.

It’s of no concern to me though as I have no interest in Fuji as a system at all. To be fair I have only had an X-Pro, an XT-2 and a couple of versions of the X100 but I wasn’t that fussed on any of them.

They are nice to look at I guess.
 
f/2.8 said:
My brother in law has the 16mm and the 56mm Fuji. Can’t say I was that impressed with either. As mentioned above for me autofocus performance is important and I didn’t find either of those lenses to be as good as the Sigma equivalents. Haven’t ever used the 35mm though.

It’s of no concern to me though as I have no interest in Fuji as a system at all. To be fair I have only had an X-Pro, an XT-2 and a couple of versions of the X100 but I wasn’t that fussed on any of them.

They are nice to look at I guess.
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The 16 Fuji is my main lens atm and honestly, it's one of the most fun, sharpest lenses I've had in years and I'm by no means a WA guy. It is exceptional I would say. Maybe you didn't give it enough of a chance? But even if all else were equal, at least for me personally, the Fuji can focus much closer [15cm vs 25] and has better magnification [.21x vs .10x] Afaik the weather sealing is also significantly better. The Sigma might beat it for AF, but the Fuji is no slouch, it's quick enough.
 
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Posted my Sony 85mm f/1.8 FE in the classifieds at a bargain £380 incl delivery for anyone interested
 
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F/1.4 said:
Posted my Sony 85mm f/1.8 FE in the classifieds at a bargain £380 incl delivery for anyone interested
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You should just keep it for when you want a lighter option even if you get the GM you will probably end up buying another one. I have bought one sold it, bought again, sold it and bought again.
 
F/1.4 said:
Posted my Sony 85mm f/1.8 FE in the classifieds at a bargain £380 incl delivery for anyone interested
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Tidy price, should go quick. That is one of few lenses that gives me a Sony itching now and then
 
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