The Amazing Sony A1/A7/A9/APS-C & Anything else welcome Mega Thread!

[redhed17]

Tbh the Nikon Z’s aren’t ‘that’ far off, I’ve been surprised by the Z7 and for me it performs better than stats would have you believe. I wouldn’t be surprised if the gen2 models are a match for Sony.

That was the flaw of the Nikon and Canon mirrorless cameras as far as AF was concerned imho, they didn't match the Sony AF of the models (version III's) they came out against, and now before they have even equalled them, Sony have their next version out. They (Nikon and Canon) may always be playing catch up and never quite do it. Time will tell.

For those unhappy about the frequency of Sony's camera releases, no one is forced to buy anything, and their current cameras they were very happy with a few days ago will not stop working, and have not suddenly gone bad. Try waiting 7 years like I had to for Nikon to replace my camera. I'd rather have too many options than too few. Yes, prices of used a7's may take a dip, but it is not as if Sony's actions with each version didn't give you a warning that this would probably happen. They update more frequently that the other manufacturers, and the have a lot of new features/improvements with each model. It's what they do. They have attacked the market in a fast aggressive way to gain market share quickly while the other big two are seemingly doddering along banking on brand loyalty rather than the best tech to transition to mirrorless and keep market share.

Kai's video seemed to give a good overview, and he was finding it hard to pick faults with it. It's going to be an interesting couple of weeks as all the details get revealed.

 

[LBJNBA]

It's interesting that he got one to take out in the wild whereas all the others are in the studio in NYC for the launch.

Yeah it is. My friend is a Sony Artisan and he was in New York for the release.

 

[nandbytes]

Do u use any of the above features?

Name me a camera out there that's perfect and does everything.

All cameras have flaws im afraid

It's not about me discussion was about Sony listening to user feedback which I don't think they do or barely do.

As far as I am concerned I'd use the touchscreen, lossless compression and focus stacking.

 

[nandbytes]

I’m not the only one with a good copy lol. I’ve only heard of praise of the lens from other users tbh.

Lens line up is still poor yeah. But it’s not like Nikon have been slow to react in the past, it’s not like they had the lions share of the pro market but were slow to develop a decent AF system and lost the majority of the market to Canon

Sorry but I don't really believe you or any other subjective squishy subjective humans in this matter. Sharpness is quantifiable and not subjective. I have actually used these lenses for half a day each and my findings match dxo. That can't just be a bad copy.

I remember when people went around claiming they had the hen's tooth of a sharp copy of Sony 16-70mm. Even I was one of them. My copy was basically not decentred which made it good but it was not any sharper than other non-decentred copies. I realized how bad it was when I used better lenses

So perhaps you need to stop using Nikon f4 zooms (24-70, 24-120) and pick up a canon EF 24-70 f4 or mirrorless Sony/canon/Panasonic 24-105mm then you'll realise too

 

[jonneymendoza]

Rumour site now says there will be another camera announcement next week and the week after.

A9mk3 with 50fps global shutter, waterproof case of up to 500m below sea level, 10 million dot EVF, Pinkle/spot AF detection, iphone style UI, 50mp, dual uhs 5 card slots plus an internal m.2 nmve ssd of 512gb build in and a new battery that lasts for a million shots.

 

[jonneymendoza]

It's not about me discussion was about Sony listening to user feedback which I don't think they do or barely do.

As far as I am concerned I'd use the touchscreen, lossless compression and focus stacking.

Hey they do. Many of the features are from user feedback

 

[rob-nikon]

That was the flaw of the Nikon and Canon mirrorless cameras as far as AF was concerned imho, they didn't match the Sony AF of the models (version III's) they came out against, and now before they have even equalled them, Sony have their next version out. They (Nikon and Canon) may always be playing catch up and never quite do it. Time will tell.

For those unhappy about the frequency of Sony's camera releases, no one is forced to buy anything, and their current cameras they were very happy with a few days ago will not stop working, and have not suddenly gone bad. Try waiting 7 years like I had to for Nikon to replace my camera. I'd rather have too many options than too few. Yes, prices of used a7's may take a dip, but it is not as if Sony's actions with each version didn't give you a warning that this would probably happen. They update more frequently that the other manufacturers, and the have a lot of new features/improvements with each model. It's what they do. They have attacked the market in a fast aggressive way to gain market share quickly while the other big two are seemingly doddering along banking on brand loyalty rather than the best tech to transition to mirrorless and keep market share.

Kai's video seemed to give a good overview, and he was finding it hard to pick faults with it. It's going to be an interesting couple of weeks as all the details get revealed.

I can see the point about intervals between new bodies. Mirrorless is a fast growing technology therefore upgrades are going to come faster than DSLRs as that was a technology had plateaued in the last 5 or so years after its introduction 15+ years ago. My guess is Canon/Nikon will have to start increasing their release frequency as like you say they are playing catch-up and will always be behind. The problem for all manufacturers will trying to convince people to buy every generation/model. There is no doubt many who come across from DSLRs will miss a generation or two because of the frequency.

There is a good point that used prices may take a dip but at £3.5k+ new many people we will always be a generation or two behind buying in the used market any way. Personally I would like to see them increase lenses and fill gaps in their line up rather than concentrate on new camera releases but it’s cameras that get the most attention from users and probably get people to switch.

 

[Deleted sulking member 63079]

It's not about me discussion was about Sony listening to user feedback which I don't think they do or barely do.

As far as I am concerned I'd use the touchscreen, lossless compression and focus stacking.

Deeper grip, coloured af spot, lock on the ev dial, bigger af on, better control stick, twin uhs-ii slots, are all things I've heard people say they want.

Just because they haven't done everything people wanted doesn't mean they haven't taken feedback onboard.

 

[Jase]

Changed your mind already?

No, looking at it for a second body and I actually preferred the current A9 to the A7RIII.

Rumour site now says there will be another camera announcement next week and the week after.

In that case it's going to be an expensive few months

I'll probably go through a few more a7r2's before I get the r4. Looks like a great camera but probably a generation I will skip...

Yeah right, you'll get one, you know it

Nikon D850 is on the whole is a better camera than A7RIII.

I agree with that, the D850 is amazing, I couldn't switch from it to RIII, I used them side by side a lot and couldn't do the switch.

 

[nandbytes]

Deeper grip, coloured af spot, lock on the ev dial, bigger af on, better control stick, twin uhs-ii slots, are all things I've heard people say they want.

Just because they haven't done everything people wanted doesn't mean they haven't taken feedback onboard.

Those are either minor things or natural progression like better IQ or AF.
Even base models these days have pretty good touchscreen, it's not hard to implement is it. The tech has been there for a long time. For 3.5K body that's pitiful IMO.
Lossless compression is something that get mentioned every single time and still no option.
Even Nikon not had better video features. When you are getting beaten by Nikon on video (lol) you have a serious issue.

 

[ukaskew]

It's not about me discussion was about Sony listening to user feedback which I don't think they do or barely do.

They don't 'advertise' it like Fuji do with their very prominent X-Shooters or much loved kaizen philosophy, but I know for a fact that Sony has gear in the hands of lots of working pros, taking feedback on board etc. They've done tons of work in the sports area in particular over the past couple of years.

They also run vast numbers of taster/experience days/sessions (as do Fuji), whilst that's predominantly to get the gear into the hands of photographers, a shed load of feedback will be generated from the more casual end of the market at those events.

 

[Raymond Lin]

It's not about me discussion was about Sony listening to user feedback which I don't think they do or barely do.

As far as I am concerned I'd use the touchscreen, lossless compression and focus stacking.

You see, those 3 things I can get by without, horse for courses.

No camera is perfect but given a choice between the better AF or those 3? I'd pick the better AF camera any day of the week.

The lossless compression thing, you can use uncompressed, just massive files. So if you don't want compression, you can do that. And I've compared them and it is a pointless exercise to look for the difference, I really couldn't tell! It might even by in my head. Anyway, there is a workaround, just get more memory cards....not ideal but doable.

Touch screen work around is the joy stick.

Focus stacking work around is PS.

You can't get a work around the AF though.

 

[nandbytes]

They don't 'advertise' it like Fuji do with their very prominent X-Shooters or much loved kaizen philosophy, but I know for a fact that Sony has gear in the hands of lots of working pros, taking feedback on board etc. They've done tons of work in the sports area in particular over the past couple of years.

They also run vast numbers of taster/experience days/sessions (as do Fuji), whilst that's predominantly to get the gear into the hands of photographers, a shed load of feedback will be generated from the more casual end of the market at those events.

yes they get feedback and then they bin it and do whatever they want

 

[nandbytes]

You see, those 3 things I can get by without, horse for courses.

No camera is perfect but given a choice between the better AF or those 3? I'd pick the better AF camera any day of the week.

The lossless compression thing, you can use uncompressed, just massive files. So if you don't want compression, you can do that. And I've compared them and it is a pointless exercise to look for the difference, I really couldn't tell! It might even by in my head. Anyway, there is a workaround, just get more memory cards....not ideal but doable.

Touch screen work around is the joy stick.

Focus stacking work around is PS.

You can't get a work around the AF though.

I got by without eyeAF too, you did too on canon right? why do you want it now? come on you can get by right? what is the workaround for terrible sony ergonomics? there is no workaround you should shoot canon again which has good ergonomics.

See how the argument can be had either way.

The point is it shouldn't be a choice between good AF or good ergonomics or touchscreen etc. The things I listed are rather simple and already existing tech. When a £350 camera can do it a £3500 camera should certainly be able to do it. The only reason I can see why it doesn't do it is because Sony think they know best and don't entirely care about feedback.

Going back to my analogy with my 22 month toddler he also follows the odd word or two but he largely ignores me. But he is still my son and I love him. Sony is still the camera I shoot and i will continue to use it. Doesn't mean I don't want them to improve
are you against improvement or something lol

edit:
to the point about lossless compressed, I use the current lossy compression 95% of the time and have done so since a-mount days. I don't have a massive problem with it. But it does ruin the odd one in 10,000 shots or whatever. It'd be nice to have lossless compression and not worry about it ever. Not having to worry about changing setting during shooting is a good thing. Its the same reason I want real time AF, means its less settings I need to bother changing on the field. Its it the same reason people want longer battery life too? less things to think about and change makes it better.

 

[Raymond Lin]

I got by without eyeAF too, you did too on canon right? why do you want it now? come on you can get by right? what is the workaround for terrible sony ergonomics? there is no workaround you should shoot canon again which has good ergonomics.

See how the argument can be had either way.

The point is it shouldn't be a choice between good AF or good ergonomics or touchscreen etc. The things I listed are rather simple and already existing tech. When a £350 camera can do it a £3500 camera should certainly be able to do it. The only reason I can see why it doesn't do it is because Sony think they know best and don't entirely care about feedback.

Going back to my analogy with my 22 month toddler he also follows the odd word or two but he largely ignores me. But he is still my son and I love him. Sony is still the camera I shoot and i will continue to use it. Doesn't mean I don't want them to improve
are you against improvement or something lol

The "got by" argument is a terrible one, I never said got by, I said work around. It's not the same thing. One replaces another, one is better than the old. Sure you can argue "either" way, if by that you mean by using different meaning.

As for the Ergonomics, I got a little leather grip, it makes the grip a fraction deeper and also taller. My picky fits perfectly. I actually find it very comfortable. Besides, Ergonomics is quite subjective, for example I love the Apple Magic Mouse...on paper it is terrible, it's flat, it has no grip but I have been using it for 10 years now and just love it.

I never said it SHOULD be a choice, but a choice is what we have, NO CAMERA is perfect so now you have to pick a choice of what is available, and what is available is one camera with a great touchscreen, lossless compression but sub-par AF vs one with the opposite.

What you are looking for is a perfect camera for you, and it seems there are more reasons for you to shoot Canon...but you shoot Sony?!

For me, there is more reasons to shoot Sony so now I do.

 

[nandbytes]

The "got by" argument is a terrible one, I never said got by, I said work around. It's not the same thing. One replaces another, one is better than the old. Sure you can argue "either" way, if by that you mean by using different meaning.

As for the Ergonomics, I got a little leather grip, it makes the grip a fraction deeper and also taller. My picky fits perfectly. I actually find it very comfortable.

I never said it SHOULD be a choice, but a choice is what we have, NO CAMERA is perfect so now you have to pick a choice of what is available, and what is available is one camera with a great touchscreen, lossless compression but sub-par AF.

What you are looking for is a perfect camera for you, and it seems there are more reasons for you to shoot Canon...but you shoot Sony?!

For me, there is more reasons to shoot Sony so now I do.

I'd consider canon more seriously if they ever fixed their sensor. Tbh they are so far behind now I am not even sure they'll ever catch up.
I am not looking for a perfect camera. It's not a big ask that a camera selling for £3500 can do as much as a camera selling for £350.

 

[Raymond Lin]

I'd consider canon more seriously if they ever fixed their sensor. Tbh they are so far behind now I am not even sure they'll ever catch up.
I am not looking for a perfect camera. It's not a big ask that a camera selling for £3500 can do as much as a camera selling for £350.

It will get there, remember my thread from 2 years back screaming about UHS-II and how Fuji has it in the XT-3 and Canon can't and up until yesterday Sony was the same, but it's now a reality.

The problem is that Canon's release schedule is so sparse between releases, it means a long wait between upgrades even if say the sensor is ready now, they are working on other things before it can come out like 3 years from now.

 

[nandbytes]

It will get there, remember my thread from 2 years back screaming about UHS-II and how Fuji has it in the XT-3 and Canon can't and up until yesterday Sony was the same, but it's now a reality.

The problem is that Canon's release schedule is so sparse between releases, it means a long wait between upgrades even if say the sensor is ready now, they are working on other things before it can come out like 3 years from now.

in 3 year from now sony sensors would have gotten further. they need to catch up now or its never.

i am very happy that they have added dual UHS-II slots, one of the reasons I'd like A7RIV

 

[Raymond Lin]

in 3 year from now sony sensors would have gotten further. they need to catch up now or its never.

i am very happy that they have added dual UHS-II slots, one of the reasons I'd like A7RIV

And the Touch Screen thing will happen, just as the focus stacking etc. They also added the wifi tethering too to the A7RIV.

IQ and AF comes first in priority, once the picture is in the bag, worry about the rest later.

 

[nandbytes]

And the Touch Screen thing will happen, just as the focus stacking etc. They also added the wifi tethering too to the A7IV.

IQ and AF comes first in priority, once the picture is in the bag, worry about the rest later.

Yes that much I can appreciate. A7RIV solves most things I care about now. I'd really like a decent touch interface for reviewing pictures quickly. Otherwise I don't care for touch screen either for shooting.

I'd have to sell both my A7RIII and RX1RII to pay for it though! but I like having the 35/85 combo on separate bodies without lens change.

 

[snerkler]

Probably won't see z6/z7 gen 2 until sony have their mkV series out. They don't seem to rush anything.

TBH they seem to be focussing their efforts on expanding the range rather than updating and I think this is a good way to go. In doing so they are still developing so when the gen 2's come out they 'should' be significantly better than the gen 1. Nikon have bought the new 60.1mp sensor so it sounds as they are planning to go head to head with the A7R4, plus there's an entry level FF mirrorless and DX mirrorless cameras rumoured.

That was the flaw of the Nikon and Canon mirrorless cameras as far as AF was concerned imho, they didn't match the Sony AF of the models (version III's) they came out against, and now before they have even equalled them, Sony have their next version out. They (Nikon and Canon) may always be playing catch up and never quite do it. Time will tell.

Yeah it will be interesting for sure. I think once tech is out there it is easier for others to 'replicate' and catch up so it wouldn't surprise me if Canikon do catch up tbh. Sony will always have a trump card over the others and vice versa.

Sorry but I don't really believe you or any other subjective squishy subjective humans in this matter. Sharpness is quantifiable and not subjective. I have actually used these lenses for half a day each and my findings match dxo. That can't just be a bad copy.

That's fine, I'm not trying to change your opinion of your experience with the lens, all I can do is give my opinion of mine . Maybe standards are different, and also people perceive sharpness, rendering etc in different ways. Yes sharpness can be measured but that doesn't mean that we will all perceive it the same, micro contrast etc etc can influence perceived sharpness.

All I know is that the sharpness of my 24-70mm f4 is, to my eyes, sharper than the 24-120mm f4 I had and probably better (certainly equal to) the three 24-70mm f2.8's I had. No none of these are the sharpest lenses I've ever used, but for a short zoom the 24-70mm f4 is impressive imo. Whether I'm living in cloud cuckoo land or whatever I don't care

 

[Jase]

Focus stacking work around is PS.

Photoshop doesn't do the automated taking of photos which is what nandbytes would be referring to. Granted I don't use the feature that often on my D850 but it is very handy when I do have a reason to use it. Same goes for in camera 4K timelapse which works really well on the D850 without having to use software to make the movie.

Like you said no camera is perfect but they are things that are useful but could also be added as firmware I guess.

 

[nandbytes]

Photoshop doesn't do the automated taking of photos which is what nandbytes would be referring to. Granted I don't use the feature that often on my D850 but it is very handy when I do have a reason to use it. Same goes for in camera 4K timelapse which works really well on the D850 without having to use software to make the movie.

Like you said no camera is perfect but they are things that are useful but could also be added as firmware I guess.

Yep that's right. With such high MP cameras with large files focus stacking outside the body is a pain tbh.
For example another option I miss is the smooth reflections app from older Sony bodies. This feature basically merged up 256 shots in-camera to give you a single raw file in the end. Merging 256 42mp raw files would kill my computer lol.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Photoshop doesn't do the automated taking of photos which is what nandbytes would be referring to. Granted I don't use the feature that often on my D850 but it is very handy when I do have a reason to use it. Same goes for in camera 4K timelapse which works really well on the D850 without having to use software to make the movie.

Like you said no camera is perfect but they are things that are useful but could also be added as firmware I guess.

I understand that, I do miss the double exposure feature from the Canon...

 

[4wd]

I'm surprised at the lack of obvious upgrade to video in the A7RIV
At a minimum I'd have expected 4k @ 60fps, 100 bitrate is on the low side nowadays too - however good results are.

 

[Deleted sulking member 63079]

I'm surprised at the lack of obvious upgrade to video in the A7RIV
At a minimum I'd have expected 4k @ 60fps, 100 bitrate is on the low side nowadays too - however good results are.

Probably saving that for the A9ii

 

[draiman]

It's a bit like phones. New update every year or two and very little significant change for most. I for one am quite happy to be a generation or two behind with the A7iii - it's so good I can't imagine I'd notice much change in the A7RIV for my uses.

I can totally understand people being upset though that it will impact the value of their camera. Most people will sell on their camera at some stage to buy new gear after all. The camera itself has never been great holding value in the past and I don't see that changing now. Stick your money in good glass - that's always been the advice right?

 

[woof woof]

Steve Huff compares the A7RIV to the Hasselblad...

https://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2019/07/16/crazy-comparison-hasselblad-x1dii-vs-sony-a7rmkiv/

 

[dancook]

Steve Huff compares the A7RIV to the Hasselblad...

https://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2019/07/16/crazy-comparison-hasselblad-x1dii-vs-sony-a7rmkiv/

and now I miss the X1D

I see a lot of 'claims' of the A7RIV being a medium format beater, because everyone is so focused on MP

If you gave a micro four-thirds sensor 100MP would you call it a crop/full-frame/medium format beater?

 

[Raymond Lin]

and now I miss the X1D

I see a lot of 'claims' of the A7RIV being a medium format beater, because everyone is so focused on MP

If you gave a micro four-thirds sensor 100MP would you call it a crop/full-frame/medium format beater?

A very valid point, and I wouldn't ever call a 35mm a MF beater. I guess it is just PR speak.

 

[Xenon54]

What's up with the recent pricing from Sony as well....

A7R4 is $3500 and £3500 (1:1 ratio) but the 35mm f1.8 is $750 yet only £629.

 

[woof woof]

and now I miss the X1D

I see a lot of 'claims' of the A7RIV being a medium format beater, because everyone is so focused on MP

If you gave a micro four-thirds sensor 100MP would you call it a crop/full-frame/medium format beater?

Well, maybe not a beater but maybe a real world close enough option...

I think the point is if the smaller format gets close enough the cost of going MF or whatever the next step up may be and taking into account possibly minor differences in output quality and diminishing returns the result for some people could be that going the next step up may not be necessary. For some I've no doubt that the extra few £k for MF will be a necessity but for others maybe the top cutting edge of the smaller format will be good enough?

 

[Jase]

What's up with the recent pricing from Sony as well....

A7R4 is $3500 and £3500 (1:1 ratio) but the 35mm f1.8 is $750 yet only £629.

Think of the 1.8 price as an error then as they way things are going with every tech item (not just Sony) 1$ = £1

 

[dancook]

Well, maybe not a beater but maybe a real world close enough option...

I think the point is if the smaller format gets close enough the cost of going MF or whatever the next step up may be and taking into account possibly minor differences in output quality and diminishing returns the result for some people could be that going the next step up may not be necessary. For some I've no doubt that the extra few £k for MF will be a necessity but for some maybe the top cutting edge of the smaller format will be good enough?

I believe medium format has a look tied to it's ability to capture more to render better tonality and (sensor or lenses?) out of focus fall-off, adding more MP to a 35mm sensor will not achieve the same.

But some people are solely focused on MP and are missing the point of MF

 

[JJ!]

I don't mind the ergonomics of the gen 3's at all. I use mine without a grip with the 70-200 and don't feel any less comfortable than I did with the D750 & 70-200.

The Z6/Z7 looked promising for me at first, but the AF is still not up to par with Sony for action and 18 months later they still haven't released a native 70-200 and only 5 native lenses in total.

 

[JJ!]

Think of the 1.8 price as an error then as they way things are going with every tech item (not just Sony) 1$ = £1

Luckily its correct and quite strange - £629 is the current UK price.

 

[robinsslee]

What's up with the recent pricing from Sony as well....

A7R4 is $3500 and £3500 (1:1 ratio) but the 35mm f1.8 is $750 yet only £629.

$3,500 excluding tax, if you add tax say 10% (depending on which State you buy) it would become $3,850.00 factoring the currency plus import duty plus VAT 20%. Excluding the shipping and insurance $3,850.00 becoming £3,905.21p

It would work out cheaper if you are in the States, bought it, throw away the boxes, you'll end up with about £3,070.00 but of course Sony UK may not recognise this if you are in Sony Pro member. The latter requires verification.

 

[Riz_Guru]

Sony could really shake up the market with the next Sony A9 II, they need to provide something unique that will get the professional Olympic crowd moving over.
Integrated 4/5G data functionality perhaps to allow direct uploading to the press?

 

[Raymond Lin]

Think of the 1.8 price as an error then as they way things are going with every tech item (not just Sony) 1$ = £1

You want bad news on exchange rate...

Not THAT long ago, in the mid 2000s, £1 get you $15HK and say a. £3500 camera would translate to $35000 so you would make nice saving even if you pay the duty and VAT on the way back. HK has no sales tax.

About 5 years ago it was about £1 to $12-13.

Today....it is £1 to $9.5.....it's gone below "parity", and that is on XE.com, at any currency exchange you would get worse than that.

 

[nandbytes]

and now I miss the X1D

I see a lot of 'claims' of the A7RIV being a medium format beater, because everyone is so focused on MP

If you gave a micro four-thirds sensor 100MP would you call it a crop/full-frame/medium format beater?

no because you'd not get close to the dynamic range or DoF advantages of a bigger sensor.

In case of FF you can get close or even get shallower DoF than MF. You can also get close on the dynamic range and tonality.
we don't know how close A7RIV get, lets wait and see...

having used gfx100 it really wow-ed the hell out of me! so A7RIV needs to be there to get close.