The Amazing Sony A1/A7/A9/APS-C & Anything else welcome Mega Thread!

Riz_Guru said:
It’s hard for me to try and explain/show.... this might explain it better...

What you are not getting here is the a9’s Exmor RS stacked sensor and all the incredible breakthroughs that come from it. The a9 has a far better buffer and faster processing, and has blackout-free live view continuous shooting up to 20 frames per second; the a7 III can do live view up to 8 frames per second with blackouts, 10 with blackouts and showing the last photo taken in the viewfinder instead of a live view. The a9 (and the a7R III) also have a higher resolution EVF and LCD screen by the numbers, but without seeing the cameras side by side I didn’t notice anything in terms of “lower quality” with the a7 III. The a9 also has an awesome added physical dial on top for controlling the drive mode and focus mode of the camera without jumping into menus. Of course there are other smaller variances to examine if you are in the market for one of them, but these are the main differences.

https://fstoppers.com/originals/hands-sony-a7-iii-new-normal-227593
Click to expand...
Yeah, sorry I understood that it was more a rhetorical question ;) I just don't get the point of a putting in a function to shoot at 10fps if you have to shoot blind. Why not just make it 8fps and be done :confused: I guess it looks good on the stats ;)
 
JJ! said:
So the angry dude was shooting in mechanical hence the EVF looking laggy?

Electronic shutter and 8fps it is!!!
Click to expand...
Not unless you want banding and jello effect ;)
 
snerkler said:
Yeah, sorry I understood that it was more a rhetorical question ;) I just don't get the point of a putting in a function to shoot at 10fps if you have to shoot blind. Why not just make it 8fps and be done :confused: I guess it looks good on the stats ;)
Click to expand...

True. But A9 is 20fps electronic and 10fps sounds good for the price!

That’s why it cost so much!
 
JJ! said:
So the angry dude was shooting in mechanical hence the EVF looking laggy?

Electronic shutter and 8fps it is!!!
Click to expand...

Not quite as simple as that.
Electronic shutter on anything moving quickly will cause a jello effect on the subjects, it can also introduce some banding but that is mostly mitigated with Sony’s Anti-Flicker function which sync’s your shutter speed with lighting frequency.

So without real-work testing, I’d recommend 8 fps mechanical only.

Mr Angry was comparing mechanical shutters between the Fuji XT-2 and Sony A9 and how the A9 EVF shows lag compared to the XT-2.
What he failed to take into consideration is that the Sony A9 is full-frame which has a bigger sensor, bigger shutter mechanism etc, because of this it has a greater lag compared to the XT-2. (APS-C).

He picked a weak point on the Sony A9 and exploited it on his video, if you want to do studio work with flash at high fps, the Sony A7R III would be a better choice.

Sony A9 vs Fuji XT-2 is no contest on many fronts, granted Fuji has its strong points also but both are very different beasts.
 
JJ! said:
True. But A9 is 20fps electronic and 10fps sounds good for the price!

That’s why it cost so much!
Click to expand...
I think you missed my point tbh. It can only do 10fps without live view, i.e. you're shooting blind so why bother putting this feature in? Who shoots at 10fps without seeing what they're shooting?

Riz_Guru said:
Not quite as simple as that.
Electronic shutter on anything moving quickly will cause a jello effect on the subjects, it can also introduce some banding but that is mostly mitigated with Sony’s Anti-Flicker function which sync’s your shutter speed with lighting frequency.

So without real-work testing, I’d recommend 8 fps mechanical only.

Mr Angry was comparing mechanical shutters between the Fuji XT-2 and Sony A9 and how the A9 EVF shows lag compared to the XT-2.
What he failed to take into consideration is that the Sony A9 is full-frame which has a bigger sensor, bigger shutter mechanism etc, because of this it has a greater lag compared to the XT-2. (APS-C).

.
Click to expand...

I personally don't see what shutter size has to do with lag? I don't fully understand why you should get lag, but my guess would be that it takes time between the sensor 'seeing' the image again and that being translated to the EVF. However, this should be independent of shutter size, if you're shooting at 5fps the time it takes for the shutter to open and close is the same whether the shutter is large or small. This is of course me trying to apply some logic to it, there's probably far more to it than this.
 
Riz_Guru said:
Not quite as simple as that.
Electronic shutter on anything moving quickly will cause a jello effect on the subjects, it can also introduce some banding but that is mostly mitigated with Sony’s Anti-Flicker function which sync’s your shutter speed with lighting frequency.

So without real-work testing, I’d recommend 8 fps mechanical only.

Mr Angry was comparing mechanical shutters between the Fuji XT-2 and Sony A9 and how the A9 EVF shows lag compared to the XT-2.
What he failed to take into consideration is that the Sony A9 is full-frame which has a bigger sensor, bigger shutter mechanism etc, because of this it has a greater lag compared to the XT-2. (APS-C).

He picked a weak point on the Sony A9 and exploited it on his video, if you want to do studio work with flash at high fps, the Sony A7R III would be a better choice.

Sony A9 vs Fuji XT-2 is no contest on many fronts, granted Fuji has its strong points also but both are very different beasts.
Click to expand...

So is this a lose lose situation for action?!

Shoot electronic and you get the jello effect.

Shoot mechanical the EVF has to display the image after each shot which must give some sort of lag when tracking and firing off in CAF?
 
JJ! said:
So is this a lose lose situation for action?!

Shoot electronic and you get the jello effect.

Shoot mechanical the EVF has to display the image after each shot which must give some sort of lag when tracking and firing off in CAF?
Click to expand...
Looks like it. I didn't realise the lag was as bad as that tbh. I'd have to try it for myself to see exactly how bad the lag is in real world situations but it's not looking good. The A9 will have less chance of Jello effect due to it's much faster sensor readout, but it's still prone to banding in artificial light, although again probably less than the A7iii/A7Riii. Until they can make a global shutter there'll always be the risk of Jello effect and banding.

I'm. not sure the previous image is being displayed, just a lag. I'm sure the people testing this would have had preview turned off.
 
Last edited:
I feel like a stranger on this thread, you all seem to know each other well ;)

Anyway, I'm a Nikon guy, D750 at the moment, my idea was to move to Sony and get an A9, huge investment since replacing all my lenses would cost me a lot.

I was determined to do it but since finding out about the deal @ohms12 found, I have had a rethink and I have chnged my plan:

I'm going to go with the a7III from that deal, reason being it also gives me the " 12 months Buy Now Pay Later".
On that time I will have a chance to pay monthly for the new a7III, start selling all my Nikon gear properly, rather than using known traders, and start swapping all my lenses to Sony.
Then in a years time, or earlier, after I have made the swap completely to Sony, I will jump onto the a9...or maybe the a9II by then...who knows? :)

What do you think of this plan?
 
Last edited:
snerkler said:
Looks like it. I didn't realise the lag was as bad as that tbh. I'd have to try it for myself to see exactly how bad the lag is in real world situations but it's not looking good. The A9 will have less chance of Jello effect due to it's much faster sensor readout, but it's still prone to banding in artificial light, although again probably less than the A7iii/A7Riii. Until they can make a global shutter there'll always be the risk of Jello effect and banding.

I'm. not sure the previous image is being displayed, just a lag. I'm sure the people testing this would have had preview turned off.
Click to expand...

You and JJ should get a d750.
 
PauBass said:
I feel like a stranger on this thread, you all seem to know each other well ;)

Anyway, I'm a Nikon guy, at the moment, my idea was to move to Sony and get an A9, huge investment since replacing all my lenses would cost me a lot.

I was determined to do it but since finding out about the deal @ohms12 found, I have had a rethink and I have chnged my plan:

I'm going to go with the a7III from that deal, reason being it also gives me the " 12 months Buy Now Pay Later".
On that time I will have a chance to pay monthly for the new a7III, start selling all my Nikon gear properly, rather than using known traders, and start swapping all my lenses to Sony.
Then in a years time, or earlier, after I have made the swap completely to Sony, I will jump onto the a9...or maybe the a9II by then...who knows? :)

What do you think of this plan?
Click to expand...
Sounds like a plan, but I’d suggest some hands on time before you take the plunge.
 
snerkler said:
Looks like it. I didn't realise the lag was as bad as that tbh. I'd have to try it for myself to see exactly how bad the lag is in real world situations but it's not looking good. The A9 will have less chance of Jello effect due to it's much faster sensor readout, but it's still prone to banding in artificial light, although again probably less than the A7iii/A7Riii. Until they can make a global shutter there'll always be the risk of Jello effect and banding.

I'm. not sure the previous image is being displayed, just a lag. I'm sure the people testing this would have had preview turned off.
Click to expand...

It’s one of those things that need to try in real situation not in a shop. Hard to record view through the EVF when tracking and shooting!
 
JJ! said:
It’s one of those things that need to try in real situation not in a shop. Hard to record view through the EVF when tracking and shooting!
Click to expand...

This is why I am reserving judgment until i put it through its paces at a real job.
 
Raymond Lin said:
This is why I am reserving judgment until i put it through its paces at a real job.
Click to expand...

There’s no real ‘lag’ to speak about, from what I hear. It’s just that the refresh rate (and PPI) on the A9 is higher than the A7III. That doesn’t mean to say the A7 is laggy, it’s just not as buttery smooth as the A9. In a real life scenario, you’d be hard pressed to notice (unless you came from an A9).

It’s better than an optical viewfinder in any case, let’s put it that way. :P
 
simonbarker said:
I thought one of the main attractions of the A9 was its electronic shutter is fast enough to mostly avoid the jello effect?
Click to expand...
In most cases yes but not all.

ohms12 said:
There’s no real ‘lag’ to speak about, from what I hear. It’s just that the refresh rate (and PPI) on the A9 is higher than the A7III. That doesn’t mean to say the A7 is laggy, it’s just not as buttery smooth as the A9. In a real life scenario, you’d be hard pressed to notice (unless you came from an A9).

It’s better than an optical viewfinder in any case, let’s put it that way. :p
Click to expand...
Did you not see the video of the lag, that was with the A9. OVF’s have no lag ;)
 
I get that people say EVFs are better as you get what you see, but for sports that is the case for the first shot, but if it becomes a bit laggy it’s more you get what you can’t see?!
 
JJ! said:
I get that people say EVFs are better as you get what you see, but for sports that is the case for the first shot, but if it becomes a bit laggy it’s more you get what you can’t see?!
Click to expand...

My only real comparison is Optical and Fuji X-T1.

It'll either be miles better than the X-T1 or absolutely awful vs Optical.

I suspect it is somewhere in between and that is very likely where it is going to be.
 
So does the EVF display what the LCD displays like for like?

For instance in this video he is shooting 10fps In mechanical and it looks smooth. Obviously it’s not panning but is this what would be seen in the EVF?

Check the helicopter blades when using silent mode though lol

View: https://youtu.be/1R7fJpEc-vM
 
Raymond Lin said:
I don't see the point watching reviews AFTER i bought something.

I'll find out the shortcomings my own way as opposed to looking for them.
Click to expand...
Tbh the post was in response to ohms not you ;)
 
JJ! said:
So does the EVF display what the LCD displays like for like?

For instance in this video he is shooting 10fps In mechanical and it looks smooth. Obviously it’s not panning but is this what would be seen in the EVF?

Check the helicopter blades when using silent mode though lol

View: https://youtu.be/1R7fJpEc-vM
Click to expand...
You’re not going to see lag if the scene’s not moving ;)

Yep that’s the jello offer right there ;) I think someone posted a similar effect of a golf swing on here too ;)
 
snerkler said:
You’re not going to see lag if the scene’s not moving ;)

Yep that’s the jello offer right there ;) I think someone posted a similar effect of a golf swing on here too ;)
Click to expand...

Yeah I know! Need some Panning shoots!
 
JJ! said:
For instance in this video he is shooting 10fps In mechanical and it looks smooth
Click to expand...

it doesn't look smooth to me, it looks like it jitters with evey shot. hard to tell when very little movement still
 
snerkler said:
Yep that’s the jello offer right there ;) I think someone posted a similar effect of a golf swing on here too ;)
Click to expand...

I don't see why anyone would buy an A7III to use electronic shutter, unless it was for the odd special usage - for which there are few scenarios.

Likewise you wouldn't buy an A9 to use mechanical shutter if you could help it.
 
dancook said:
it doesn't look smooth to me, it looks like it jitters with evey shot. hard to tell when very little movement still
Click to expand...

dancook said:
When using a DSLR with a mirror, the OVF blinks in the same way anyway...
Click to expand...
Yeah it definitely jitters, but no different to a DSLR ‘flickering’ as the mirror moves as you say. Having a lag is another thing though, difficult to shoot if it’s ‘behind time’. That being said, if you’re panning it’s not going to matter to much as your speed is constant, as long as the subject’s not close to the edges of course as you may end up clipping it as you’re seeing a delayed image.
 
dancook said:
I don't see why anyone would buy an A7III to use electronic shutter, unless it was for the odd special usage - for which there are few scenarios.
Click to expand...
I guess to get rid of the lag?
 
twist said:
You mean nearly 14 ev. Which is .5 ev from d750. Yeah, why not.
Click to expand...
I was kidding :p

Edit: the 5div is ‘only’ 13.6 though, that’s nearly a full stop less ;)
 
Last edited:
snerkler said:
I think you missed my point tbh. It can only do 10fps without live view, i.e. you're shooting blind so why bother putting this feature in? Who shoots at 10fps without seeing what they're shooting?


I personally don't see what shutter size has to do with lag? I don't fully understand why you should get lag, but my guess would be that it takes time between the sensor 'seeing' the image again and that being translated to the EVF. However, this should be independent of shutter size, if you're shooting at 5fps the time it takes for the shutter to open and close is the same whether the shutter is large or small. This is of course me trying to apply some logic to it, there's probably far more to it than this.
Click to expand...

Ok let’s say it’s not the size / lag of the shutter, it could be the fact the Fuji has less data to read and distribute around the circuit board incl EVF?
I just think Mr Angry was making a big issue when most people bought the Sony A9 for its 20 fps silent shutter.
 
snerkler said:
Yeah it definitely jitters, but no different to a DSLR ‘flickering’ as the mirror moves as you say. Having a lag is another thing though, difficult to shoot if it’s ‘behind time’. That being said, if you’re panning it’s not going to matter to much as your speed is constant, as long as the subject’s not close to the edges of course as you may end up clipping it as you’re seeing a delayed image.
Click to expand...

Panning for me is both up and down. For example following a horse taking pics around a cross country course the terrain is up and down then you have the jumps. Not seeing things even slightly out of real time is a bit of a bummer!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top