The Amazing Sony A1/A7/A9/APS-C & Anything else welcome Mega Thread!

[Raymond Lin]

Hardly invalid, the Sony is processing more than the Canon and the Nikon or are you forgetting the evf and smaller size (heat).

I think Alan will tell you I am hardly a Sony fanboy just buy the Nikon if you want what it has. I'm moaning about your whining lol.

The higher the pixel the more the reason putting in the UHD-II slots, as you have more pixels to push through, meaning the bottleneck for the Sony is greater than the Canon having 50% less pixels.

The tech is there, it’s not implemented hence criticised.

 

[twist]

The higher the pixel the more the reason putting in the UHD-II slots, as you have more pixels to push through, meaning the bottleneck for the Sony is greater than the Canon having 50% less pixels.

The tech is there, it’s not implemented hence criticised.

Exactly, but you're putting it down to the card reader and not everything else it has to do to deal with those images and everything else at the same time.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Exactly, but you're putting it down to the card reader and not everything else it has to do to deal with those images and everything else at the same time.

It Is their responsibility to sort out everything else, they (I am) paying them to do that.

 

[twist]

It Is their responsibility to sort out everything else, they (I am) paying them to do that.

Well you're not paying them because you don't own a Sony afaik. Just take your money elsewhere if the other positives dont add up, pretty simple.

 

[addicknchips]

It Is their responsibility to sort out everything else, they (I am) paying them to do that.

You pre ordering then?

 

[snerkler]

Whichever way you cut it when paying £3200 for a camera you don't expect older slower tech

 

[Raymond Lin]

You pre ordering then?

I don’t pre-order as principle, will be picking one up if I see it in Japan next month.

 

[twist]

Whichever way you cut it when paying £3200 for a camera you don't expect older slower tech

It wouldn't matter if the camera can't process the data coming off a faster slot and it limits it in other ways.

It's way more advanced than other brand's though and that's what you pay for.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Well you're not paying them because you don't own a Sony afaik. Just take your money elsewhere if the other positives dont add up, pretty simple.

You seem to miss the point of my initial post completely and keep saying “go somewhere else if you are not happy”. At this price point there isn’t really anywhere else you can go and when the completion has done it, and you bring out a camera at the same time without the same feature, it should be pointed out. To not do so is like putting your head in the sand pretending there is no fault.

The fault is there, let’s not pretend it’s not. The UHS-1 slot is staring at us in the face.

 

[twist]

You seem to miss the point of my initial post completely and keep saying “go somewhere else if you are not happy”. At this price point there isn’t really anywhere else you can go and when the completion has done it, and you bring out a camera at the same time without the same feature, it should be pointed out. To not do so is like putting your head in the sand pretending there is no fault.

The fault is there, let’s not pretend it’s not. The UHS-1 slot is staring at us in the face.

I'm not missing your point but you seem to be convinced it's only because they wanted to save pence on a card slot. If you're so upset about it than just get the nikon, but it seems the Sony has other things you're very interested in.

All cameras have issues.

 

[Raymond Lin]

I'm not missing your point but you seem to be convinced it's only because they wanted to save pence on a card slot. If you're so upset about it than just get the nikon, but it seems the Sony has other things you're very interested in.

It’s not just about saving money, if thats the reason then I’d happily pay it. If it’s tech reasons they need to overcome it, like all technological obstacles, processing power, heat problem, R&D the crap out of it. The XB1X is smaller and more powerful, miniaturisation in tech is natural and it’s 2/3 years since the A7R2 and having 2 card slots is not a new and novel idea so I expect a top end body to be able to pull it off without one hand tied behind its back.

 

[snerkler]

It wouldn't matter if the camera can't process the data coming off a faster slot and it limits it in other ways.

It's way more advanced than other brand's though and that's what you pay for.

TBF it does say it can shot at 10fps so it's no slouch. Not sure how big the buffer is though? Is the 10fps via mechanical shutter or is this limited to 5fps like the A9?

 

[twist]

It’s not just about saving money, if thats the reason then I’d happily pay it. If it’s tech reasons they need to overcome it, like all technological obstacles, processing power, heat problem, R&D the crap out of it. The XB1X is smaller and more powerful, miniaturisation in tech is natural and it’s 2/3 years since the A7R2 and having 2 card slots is not a new and novel idea so I expect a top end body to be able to pull it off without one hand tied behind its back.

That was my point a card reader costs nothing thats why i said i dont suspect that is the bottleneck. The consumers would whinge the a7riii should've been out by now if it wasn't just released. Just buy the mk4 if you want to wait.

 

[twist]

TBF it does say it can shot at 10fps so it's no slouch. Not sure how big the buffer is though? Is the 10fps via mechanical shutter or is this limited to 5fps like the A9?

Mechanical mate.

Shoot 76 JPEGs or compressed RAW images in its buffer (28 uncompressed)

 

[redhed17]

No manufacturer in this year, and maybe even the last couple of years, shouldn't be putting lower tech in their cameras, be that UHS II SD cards, USB 3 (or 3.1) sockets, or certain types of WiFi imho. You can kind of understand it on slow low resolution cheaper entry level devices, but not on cameras costing thousands. Just my opinion of course, but if nothing else it gives the impression that you are not lagging behind tech wise or penny pinching. The worst of this penny pinching was Nikon actually taking sensor cleaning tech out of a camera.

Each manufacturer makes their spec choices, which users, or potential users, may not agree with and understand. The user decides whether something missing is important or not by buying or not, which has been mentioned, but you can still be a user, put up with a deficiency and still not like it.

And you never know, by discussing it on a photography discussion site, someone may actually have a valid reason for their choice, rather than the if you don't like it, don't buy it attitude.

 

[twist]

No manufacturer in this year, and maybe even the last couple of years, shouldn't be putting lower tech in their cameras, be that UHS II SD cards, USB 3 (or 3.1) sockets, or certain types of WiFi imho. You can kind of understand it on slow low resolution cheaper entry level devices, but not on cameras costing thousands. Just my opinion of course, but if nothing else it gives the impression that you are not lagging behind tech wise or penny pinching. The worst of this penny pinching was Nikon actually taking sensor cleaning tech out of a camera.

Each manufacturer makes their spec choices, which users, or potential users, may not agree with and understand. The user decides whether something missing is important or not by buying or not, which has been mentioned, but you can still be a user, put up with a deficiency and still not like it.

And you never know, by discussing it on a photography discussion site, someone may actually have a valid reason for their choice, rather than the if you don't like it, don't buy it attitude.

Then their choice would be to accept it or..... not buy it.

 

[stevelmx5]

Bringing reality into the card reader debate, is anyone actually struggling to shoot because of the ‘slower’ cards? I’ve shot a wedding with an A6000 with no issues and am currently walking around Florida with a mk1 A7 and not finding issues with the buffer or writes. Unless you’re shooting fast sports (which Sony would suggest you use an A9 for) I don’t see the issue other than online/paper stats complaints.

 

[snerkler]

Bringing reality into the card reader debate, is anyone actually struggling to shoot because of the ‘slower’ cards? I’ve shot a wedding with an A6000 with no issues and am currently walking around Florida with a mk1 A7 and not finding issues with the buffer or writes. Unless you’re shooting fast sports (which Sony would suggest you use an A9 for) I don’t see the issue other than online/paper stats complaints.

For me it's more principle than anything, these things ain't cheap

 

[Raymond Lin]

That was my point a card reader costs nothing thats why i said i dont suspect that is the bottleneck. The consumers would whinge the a7riii should've been out by now if it wasn't just released. Just buy the mk4 if you want to wait.

The whole point is I point out shortcoming when there is a valid one.

i.e. Canon 5D2 implementing the old AF system
A7R2 not having dual card slots

Other technology like Nintendo Switch not having bluetooth headphone support and not having online chat support without that stupid app on your phone running. X-Box 1 having a massive power brick when the PS4 being slower and faster having a built in one (which they fixed in the Xbox 1 S).

These general shortfall are everywhere, when the reasons for not doing them seems baffling and if the consumer don't speak out, who will?

Bringing reality into the card reader debate, is anyone actually struggling to shoot because of the ‘slower’ cards? I’ve shot a wedding with an A6000 with no issues and am currently walking around Florida with a mk1 A7 and not finding issues with the buffer or writes. Unless you’re shooting fast sports (which Sony would suggest you use an A9 for) I don’t see the issue other than online/paper stats complaints.

Walking backwards on the confetti shot, you are looking for that perfect shot, the shot that both couples eye open, you can see their faces, the confetti are in the right "spread", the people on the side are smiling too, so the 20 to 30 second walk you just machine gun the whole thing hoping there is 1 good shot. The buffer really need to go for the entire duration and not have "write to card" and stops for 30seconds. Do you know how I work around that with a Canon? I have 2 bodies, one with a 35mm and one with a 24mm. I start shooting with a 35mm and when it gets full and swing up the 24mm from my shoulder to keep going. The split second I am unable to shoot that i lost is made up by the extra wider angle from the lens so I still get similar coverage of what i am looking at.

I have been doing that forever, it would be great if I didn't have to do that.

 

[stevelmx5]

Nobody is forced to buy any camera kit so if something doesn’t meet your expectations, don’t buy it. As photographers, were spiked for choice so if the Sony doesn’t float your bit, buy a Canon, if you don’t like that, buy a Nikon or Fuji etc etc.

 

[stevelmx5]

The whole point is I point out shortcoming when there is a valid one.

i.e. Canon 5D2 implementing the old AF system
A7R2 not having dual card slots

Other technology like Nintendo Switch not having bluetooth headphone support and not having online chat support without that stupid app on your phone running. X-Box 1 having a massive power brick when the PS4 being slower and faster having a built in one (which they fixed in the Xbox 1 S).

These general shortfall are everywhere, when the reasons for not doing them seems baffling and if the consumer don't speak out, who will?



Walking backwards on the confetti shot, you are looking for that perfect shot, the shot that both couples eye open, you can see their faces, the confetti are in the right "spread", the people on the side are smiling too, so the 20 to 30 second walk you just machine gun the whole thing hoping there is 1 good shot. The buffer really need to go for the entire duration and not have "write to card" and stops for 30seconds. Do you know how I work around that with a Canon? I have 2 bodies, one with a 35mm and one with a 24mm. I start shooting with a 35mm and when it gets full and swing up the 24mm from my shoulder to keep going. The split second I am unable to shoot that i lost is made up by the extra wider angle from the lens so I still get similar coverage of what i am looking at.

It would be great if I didn't have to do that.

Buy an A9 or continue with your workaround? As above, it’s obviously a genuine concern for you so maybe the A7riii won’t be the camera for you?

Alternatively, that ‘perfect’ confetti shot relies on as much luck as technical ability so maybe you’ll be ok?

 

[Raymond Lin]

Buy an A9 or continue with your workaround? As above, it’s obviously a genuine concern for you so maybe the A7riii won’t be the camera for you?

The point is that there shouldn't be this bottle neck in the first place, it is not about "buy another camera" or "work around" it.

The entire point is the tech is finally here to allow UHS-II slots and it is in the competition, so put it in. Everything else is excuses.

 

[stevelmx5]

The point is that there shouldn't be this bottle neck in the first place, it is not about "buy another camera" or "work around" it.

The entire point is the tech is finally here to allow UHS-II slots and it is in the competition, so put it in. Everything else is excuses.

Again though, until you’ve actually shot with an A7riii, how do you know that the ‘slower’ card slot will actually cause a bottleneck? It’s complaining about paper stats before you’ve even used it.

 

[Raymond Lin]

This "if you don't like it, don't buy it" thinking is baffling…would you be happy if Sony charges the same money but kept 1 card slots still? would you still say "don't like it, don't buy it?" What if they kept the same battery size, no joy stick, go backwards on the DR by putting in a worse sensor?

The whole point the technology is available, it is implemented by a competitor to show its s possible. They have taken 1 step towards putting one UHS-2 in……it seems bonkers not take the second step.

"Don't buy it." seems like an absurd response.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Again though, until you’ve actually shot with an A7riii, how do you know that the ‘slower’ card slot will actually cause a bottleneck? It’s complaining about paper stats before you’ve even used it.

28 shots uncompressed in the buffer, at 10fps. I didn't write the paper stats, Sony did, don't blame me for reading something they wrote.

That's 3 seconds. Let's be generous and assume it is double that, 6 seconds.

I am still about 20seconds short from the end of my confetti shot.

 

[twist]

The point is that there shouldn't be this bottle neck in the first place, it is not about "buy another camera" or "work around" it.

The entire point is the tech is finally here to allow UHS-II slots and it is in the competition, so put it in. Everything else is excuses.

You're still assuming the card reader is the bottleneck when it's unlikely. The camera doesn't suit you, don't buy it. Consumers vote with their feet!

 

[Raymond Lin]

You're still assuming the card reader is the bottleneck when it's unlikely. The camera doesn't suit you, don't buy it. Consumers vote with their feet!

It shows are strong an argument for implementing old tech - Don't buy it.

Why are you defending it? Really?

To remove the entire possibility of the card reader being the bottleneck, how about putting 2 x UHS-II slots in? If it isn's the bottle neck then why bother putting in a UHS-2 slot anyway? Put both as UHS-1 because honestly it would be the same speed anyway.

 

[twist]

It shows are strong an argument for implementing old tech - Don't buy it.

Why are you defending it? Really?

Why implement anything faster if the processing possibly can't deal with the data? You won't, others will, problem solved.

Because I am the new CEO of their imaging division.

 

[snerkler]

28 shots uncompressed in the buffer, at 10fps. I didn't write the paper stats, Sony did, don't blame me for reading something they wrote.

That's 3 seconds. Let's be generous and assume it is double that, 6 seconds.

I am still about 20seconds short from the end of my confetti shot.

Wow I didn't realise people actually shot continuously for 20-30s Maybe the D500 or D5 might be more suitable?

Tbh I'm rarely limited by my D750 and that only has a buffer of around 12. That being said, the 58 shot buffer of the D850 (along with a host of other things) would be very welcome to me. If only these cameras weren't so damn expensive

 

[Raymond Lin]

Why implement anything faster if the processing possibly can't deal with the data? You won't, others will, problem solved.

Because I am the new CEO of their imaging division.

What are you talking about?

Yes, Canon's reason for putting in a slower card slot is they don't have the processing power to deal with the data. (yes, their Digi 6 is that crap it can't even do it for 30mp files) If I had said that during the launch of the 5D4, would you accept it?

The competition has managed it, Sony has had this sensor for over a generation now so they know how to work it, it's not new. 2 card slots is not new, they know exactly how much processing power it needs to write to 2 cards. this isn't something that crept up on them yesterday. The sensor is there, the file size is there, they planned, and designed and implemented 2 card slots and the logical thing is put in 2 of the same. So if there is a problem that they can't to begin with, they had 2 years or so to R&D round that problem.

 

[addicknchips]

Wow I didn't realise people actually shot continuously for 20-30s Maybe the D500 or D5 might be more suitable?

Tbh I'm rarely limited by my D750 and that only has a buffer of around 12. That being said, the 58 shot buffer of the D850 (along with a host of other things) would be very welcome to me. If only these cameras weren't so damn expensive

This seems like the obvious solution.
And everyone lived happily ever after. The end.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Wow I didn't realise people actually shot continuously for 20-30s Maybe the D500 or D5 might be more suitable?

Tbh I'm rarely limited by my D750 and that only has a buffer of around 12. That being said, the 58 shot buffer of the D850 (along with a host of other things) would be very welcome to me. If only these cameras weren't so damn expensive

It is the one and only time this is required, of course I might get the shot in the first second, but it doesn't stop me wanting to cover my ass wanting more when it can be done or something that can be clearly improved upon. I am merely pointing out a shortcoming of the A7R3, and to be honest, it is the only thing I can think of, so kudos to Sony but some people's only response is "don't buy it", which hardly contribute to the debate.

 

[stevelmx5]

It is the one and only time this is required, of course I might get the shot in the first second, but it doesn't stop me wanting to cover my ass wanting more when it can be done or something that can be clearly improved upon. I am merely pointing out a shortcoming of the A7R3, and to be honest, it is the only thing I can think of, so kudos to Sony but some people's only response is "don't buy it", which hardly contribute to the debate.

What’s the alternative response to, “don’t buy it if it doesn’t fit your needs for 30 seconds out of the entire 14 hour wedding”?

Nobody has a gun to your head forcing you to buy the Sony. You have a workaround in place already with your Canons (that limp along with standard CF slots) and you already have the stats in front of you to help guide your decision.

There is another option, simply disable writing to the slower card for that 30 seconds of confetti throwing so the camera only writes to the UHS-2 card so there is no slower card bottleneck if it’s a massive concern..

 

[twist]

What are you talking about?

Yes, Canon's reason for putting in a slower card slot is they don't have the processing power to deal with the data. (yes, their Digi 6 is that crap it can't even do it for 30mp files) If I had said that during the launch of the 5D4, would you accept it?

The competition has managed it, Sony has had this sensor for over a generation now so they know how to work it, it's not new. 2 card slots is not new, they know exactly how much processing power it needs to write to 2 cards. this isn't something that crept up on them yesterday. The sensor is there, the file size is there, they planned, and designed and implemented 2 card slots and the logical thing is put in 2 of the same. So if there is a problem that they can't to begin with, they had 2 years or so to R&D round that problem.

Perhaps they valued other new features over the second fast slot? 2 years may not have been enough to have it all. Just bloody wait for the mk4 and stop whining. You're not having a discussion, you won't try understand why it might be the way it is.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Perhaps they valued other new features over the second fast slot? 2 years may not have been enough to have it all. Just bloody wait for the mk4 and stop whining.

You are not contributing, and stop your own whining, if you don't like what I wrote, don't read it.

 

[woof woof]

Whichever way you cut it when paying £3200 for a camera you don't expect older slower tech

Tell that to every Canon user on the forum

 

[twist]

You are not contributing, and stop your own whining, if you don't like what I wrote, don't read it.

Stop quoting me then!

 

[Raymond Lin]

What’s the alternative response to, “don’t buy it if it doesn’t fit your needs for 30 seconds out of the entire 14 hour wedding”?

Nobody has a gun to your head forcing you to buy the Sony. You have a workaround in place already with your Canons (that limp along with standard CF slots) and you already have the stats in front of you to help guide your decision.

There is another option, simply disable writing to the slower card for that 30 seconds of confetti throwing so the camera only writes to the UHS-2 card so there is no slower card bottleneck if it’s a massive concern..

I am merely pointing out the shortcoming, which we ALL AGREE it is there, you can bury you head in the sand and pretend that's not the case. The reason I want this 1 shot out of a 14 hour wedding is because I want every shot to be the best that it can be, is it wrong to want to be better?

As for your other option, I have already told you, that would defeat the entire purpose of redundancy in the first place.

 

[stevelmx5]

I am merely pointing out the shortcoming, which we ALL AGREE it is there, you can bury you head in the sand and pretend that's not the case. The reason I want this 1 shot out of a 14 hour wedding is because I want every shot to be the best that it can be, is it wrong to want to be better?

As for your other option, I have already told you, that would defeat the entire purpose of redundancy in the first place.

Yes, it is a paper technical limitation but unless someone here works for Sony R&D, none of us know if it’s merely a cost cut or if there’s a genuine reason for not putting it in. As Twist said, there could be a bottleneck in the processing itself so it would be a waste of money putting 2x UHS-2 slots.

As for your redundancy concern, are you really worried about 30 seconds of redundancy? You could copy all the images to the second card afterwards if you wanted to. Again though, until someone actually tries that 30 second burst its impossible to give a genuine response to the perceived ‘bottleneck’.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Yes, it is a paper technical limitation but unless someone here works for Sony R&D, none of us know if it’s merely a cost cut or if there’s a genuine reason for not putting it in. As Twist said, there could be a bottleneck in the processing itself so it would be a waste of money putting 2x UHS-2 slots.

As for your redundancy concern, are you really worried about 30 seconds of redundancy? You could copy all the images to the second card afterwards if you wanted to. Again though, until someone actually tries that 30 second burst its impossible to give a genuine response to the perceived ‘bottleneck’.

I worry about 1 second redundancy, my standard is very simple, if you do something, do it properly.

If you do redundancy, do it for every shot.
If you put in 2 card slots, make it the same.

It's not too much to ask is it?