The Amazing Sony A1/A7/A9/APS-C & Anything else welcome Mega Thread!

At £699 UK price brand new for an original A7, it is about as cheap as FF gets to be fair. UK price for a D7200 is £829, and that's APS-C!

Definitely with twist on this one
 
JYC said:
At £699 UK price brand new for an original A7, it is about as cheap as FF gets to be fair. UK price for a D7200 is £829, and that's APS-C!
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It's over £1000 on the Sony site. When it was first released no-one said oh look here's an entry level camera.
 
In terms of entry level.

Entry level is about specs.

I that regard, the A7 is at the same or similar level as the A7R or A7S.

No-one says the R1 is an entry level sports bike because it's priced lower than the BMW S1000RR
 
Wow... talk about missing the point.

We are talking about Sony having affordable FF cameras without an affordable FF lens ecosystem.

You are quibbling over the definition of entry level.
 
Ah. That's fair enough. I do agree they should have lens range where the 28/2 and the 28-70, 24-240 sit.

A slightly better range where the 35/2.8, 55/1.4, and 24-70 (debatable) sit

Then the top of the range where the 35/1.4 etc.. might sit
 
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c-m said:
According to who?

Sony don't the distinction, so on who's authority is it entry level?
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Do you put it in the pro line up against other pro FF cameras? Considering it has no pro build, no pro sealing, no pro AF, no pro support and when its price point indicates its entry level and places it in line with other entry level FF cameras?

Never mind @JYC, youre clearly going to be wasting your time with this one.
 
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I don't even have an A7, I have a Fuji... but I would if they had a set of reasonably priced lenses :p
 
dejongj said:
It may do initially but I think it will pay off over time. There have been enough studies to demonstrated that when you can grab the high end market it is easier to extend downwards versus doing the opposite.

I think Sony are on the right path and have found an opening to have desirable kit amongst the established brands. When they keep that up it will be all good.
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I agree. the fact that the EOS-M has sold as well as it has (or at all!) shows that brand recognition matters. What people see the pros using on TV, what brand their photography enthusiast friend recommends (and most people recommend what they use themselves), what kit gets good reviews on websites matters an enormous amount to a large number of buyers. Most consumers don't go out thinking "I want an average camera for an average price", they come to the conclusion that Brand X is the best, and go out and buy the best Brand X camera in their budget, even if at that price point Brand Y is the better option. A lot of those people end up buying an EOS-M.

The other side of the equation is who Sony is going after with the A7 series. The Axxxx series is there for people for whom price is more important than image quality or just want a good all round camera. The A7 cameras are there to pull in high end Nikon/Canon users, and you don't do that by saying "hey guys look at this range of OKish lenses we have!" While a small full frame mirrorless camera certainly tempted me, it was the performance of the 55mm that convinced me to dump all my Nikon gear.

As a current user of A7 cameras, I'm glad that the likes of the 28mm FE exist and want to see more of them, but as an Ex-Nikon owner, if that had been Sony's priority I'd probably still be lugging my D800 around moaning about how heavy it was, how frustrating the autofocus was, and how disappointingly soft my 50mm was. I still say that Sony's biggest mistakes since the launch have been how uninspiring the 24-70mm is and the 70-200mm not being available at launch.
 
twist said:
Do you put it in the pro line up against other pro FF cameras? Considering it has no pro build, no pro sealing, no pro AF, no pro support and when its price point indicates its entry level and places it in line with other entry level FF cameras?

Never mind @JYC, youre clearly going to be wasting your time with this one.
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I don't put it in any line up. It's just a camera. The A7, A7R and A7S are all about the same level of features as far as i'm concerned. Different features, but a similar level.

Sony do have Pro support though. And of course the A7R, A7ii, A7s don't have 'pro' AF, and even the nearly £3k A7RII doesn't have 'pro sealing'
 
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The original may be now "entry level", I prefer to just call it old and still on sale rather than entry level, but their range also include the A7RII doesn't it ;) Surely that deserves some good glass.
 
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c-m said:
I don't put it in any line up. It's just a camera.

Sony do have Pro support though. And of course the A7R, A7ii, A7s don't have 'pro' AF, and even the nearly £3k A7RII doesn't have 'pro sealing'
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Ok then, but its still in the entry level FF category for pretty much everyone except you.

c-m said:
In terms of entry level.

Entry level is about specs.
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The A7 has entry level FF specs.
 
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dejongj said:
The original may be now, I prefer to just call it old and still on sale rather than entry level, but their range also include the A7RII doesn't it ;) Surely that deserves some good glass.
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Don't think anyone would say there shouldn't be good glass.

Having good glass does not mean you can't have affordable lenses too. It shouldn't be either/or.
 
It does mean that. You don't want to have both on the market at the same time. Get the superb one established first and then downgrade. That is a much better approach causing less confusion.
 
Well if that is the case why did they make a kit lens? Or the 28mm f2?

Your logic would hold if they hadn't brought a few of the more affordable lenses to the market, but they have. Just not many primes and not very quickly.
 
dejongj said:
It does mean that. You don't want to have both on the market at the same time. Get the superb one established first and then downgrade. That is a much better approach causing less confusion.
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Why not? Not everyone has an unlimited budget, its why a lot of people are avoiding the A7, Sony will lose out. They are trying to make an impact with new technology and a new mount, theyve always been a small player in comparison and need the user base to sell the system.

Sure, you get a cheap camera in the A7 and kit lens but then what? You make them wait years for affordable lenses, not a good move.
 
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twist said:
Why not? Not everyone has an unlimited budget, its why a lot of people are avoiding the A7, Sony will lose out. They are trying to make an impact with new technology and a new mount, theyve always been a small player in comparison and need the user base to sell the system.

Sure, you get a cheap camera in the A7 and kit lens but then what? You make them wait years for affordable lenses, not a good move.
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You are looking at it from a consumer perspective which is fine, but different from a supplier who wants to get a foothold in the luxury end of the market against established players. It's been a while since I've looked into the marketing strategies. One of them is the Mercedes Benz effect from the top working it down.

Ultimately it is a case of many roads lead to Rome. One isn't necessarily better than the other. I think that especially with the A7II and the A7RII they will have to get too quality lenses sorted.
 
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.... I really hope the rumoured lenses follow the 28mm trend and they provide reasonably priced Sony 35mm f1.8/2, 50mm 1.8 and a 85mm 1.8. Look at the 85mm 1.8G, it costs very little but its performance is exceptional, so it can be done.
 
Hmm they have been around for a long long time at the top of the market. I see them, BMW, etc. as the Canon or Nikon of the car world.

What was the strategy of Toyota, Honda, Nissan in the 70s, or Kia and Hyundai in the 2000s? Cheap, reasonable quality and well priced cars in the lower mass market segments to grow market share ;)
 
JYC said:
Hmm they have been around for a long long time at the top of the market. I see them, BMW, etc. as the Canon or Nikon of the car world.

What was the strategy of Toyota, Honda, Nissan in the 70s, or Kia and Hyundai in the 2000s? Cheap, reasonable quality and well priced cars in the lower mass market segments to grow market share ;)
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Exactly, and at a time Mercedes didn't occupy that space which they moved in much later to great success. Yet Toyota Honda and Nissan still haven't broken into the luxury segments.
 
dejongj said:
You are looking at it from a consumer perspective which is fine, but different from a supplier who wants to get a foothold in the luxury end of the market against established players. It's been a while since I've looked into the marketing strategies. One of them is the Mercedes Benz effect from the top working it down.
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The problem is Sony doesnt have the brand influence or offer the vast options the other players do so its going to be harder for them to convince the higher end of the market and then on top of that they want to sell the cheaper models that everyday users will be buying. Id understand if they were just marketing to A7rii users / large budget users but their camera line up doesnt reflect that philosophy.
 
woof woof said:
Good luck with getting a bargain 35mm f2.8. Can't remember exactly what I paid in the used section here but when I price checked against ebay I convinced myself that I'd got a bargain.
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Found a 35/2.8 at a decent price. Due to arrive tomorrow. It will be interesting to see how AF is on the A7R.
 
paulcamcas said:
Found a 35/2.8 at a decent price. Due to arrive tomorrow. It will be interesting to see how AF is on the A7R.
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Excellent!

I'm very happy with mine and I'll be taking it and my A7 on holiday next month (to a wedding in Thailand,) if I can actually go. Hope you're happy with the focus speed, I am.

I'd regard the 55 and 35mm f2.8 as being reasonably priced for the quality they offer, I grudgingly agree with the policy of aiming high with very good but rather expensive lenses whilst the system is getting established and gaining acceptance and plaudits. I do hope to see more mid market lenses at more reasonable prices but I think that these may take time to come. In the meantime I think it's best to look at the prices in relation to the better competition and not the relatively mid market competition from the third parties like Sigma and Tamron.
 
woof woof said:
I'm very happy with mine and I'll be taking it and my A7 on holiday next month (to a wedding in Thailand,) if I can actually go. Hope you're happy with the focus speed, I am.
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Funnily enough, I've been keen to find one of these as I've got a wedding coming up in Gibraltar. Hope you make it to Thailand - got to be more fun than Gib.
 
I still struggle with the fact that I paid £450 for a 55mm f1.8 and £760 for a 70-200 F4. This was crazy money for me because the actual A7 with 28-70 only cost me £700 but I needed these lenses.
I still find it hard to stay with the system as the lenses are so expensive. Basically I cant buy anymore of the current lens Line up now for at least 2 years.
I know they are amazing lenses but I don't know if they are wasted on me and should just switch to another brand were I will have more lens options.
Its hard because sony bodies drop so much because of the release schedule so its easy to get in. But once in you need a friggin mortgage for lenses! Hehe
 
dejongj said:
Exactly, and at a time Mercedes didn't occupy that space which they moved in much later to great success. Yet Toyota Honda and Nissan still haven't broken into the luxury segments.
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Sorry to but in, but......................Mercedes have gone poor since accountants started to run the business, the late 90's and 2000 year cars are rust buckets. I bought my last brand new mercedes in 2003 and would never buy again unless they have upped their game. As for Toyota they have Lexus and the LS400 I owned was probably better than any , Merc, Jag, Audi, BMW etc........ I have owned by a country and I have owned a few luxury cars.

Anyway as this has started from the latest 90mm macro link and I said on page 106 (the last time it was discussed) along with others, it was way over priced compared to the others in the market. I think Sony are fishing in the wrong market with there current prices, be interesting to see how many on here buy the 90mm at the current price, less than a handful probably. The adapter route will stop it, unless people are using the lens as a portrait lens which may help sales.

https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/the-sony-a7x-i-ii-owners-thread.511885/page-106
 
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Photopaque said:
I still struggle with the fact that I paid £450 for a 55mm f1.8 and £760 for a 70-200 F4. This was crazy money for me because the actual A7 with 28-70 only cost me £700 but I needed these lenses.
I still find it hard to stay with the system as the lenses are so expensive. Basically I cant buy anymore of the current lens Line up now for at least 2 years.
I know they are amazing lenses but I don't know if they are wasted on me and should just switch to another brand were I will have more lens options.
Its hard because sony bodies drop so much because of the release schedule so its easy to get in. But once in you need a friggin mortgage for lenses! Hehe
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A7rii with its af may work out cheaper in the long run then any other a7 system as it could make all canon lenses work properly in terms of af
 
Would it have the same effect on Nikon lenses or is that different?
 
Photopaque said:
I still find it hard to stay with the system as the lenses are so expensive. Basically I cant buy anymore of the current lens Line up now for at least 2 years.
I know they are amazing lenses but I don't know if they are wasted on me and should just switch to another brand were I will have more lens options.
Its hard because sony bodies drop so much because of the release schedule so its easy to get in. But once in you need a friggin mortgage for lenses! Hehe
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Can you use manual lenses to cut the costs and still give you different lens options? Prices of manual lenses seem to be rising but you can still get a bargain if you hunt.

I can understand your view that an A7 system may be wasted on you but I don't think you should give that thought too much time. I recently bought a used MFT Olympus 17mm f1.8 and I've been using it on my Panasonic G1. It's the same FoV as my A7 + 35mm f2.8 and whilst the value of the camera and lens package is only about £250 the image quality is really good at ISO 100-400 and acceptable right the way up to 1600 and is very probably good enough for 99.9% of the pictures I take but the Sony beats it if I want to look very closely, print very big or use high ISO's and I like having nice things and even if most of the time the capabilities of the system and the quality it's capable of are beyond what I need I don't think it's wasted on me.
 
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Photopaque said:
I still struggle with the fact that I paid £450 for a 55mm f1.8 and £760 for a 70-200 F4. This was crazy money for me because the actual A7 with 28-70 only cost me £700 but I needed these lenses.
I still find it hard to stay with the system as the lenses are so expensive. Basically I cant buy anymore of the current lens Line up now for at least 2 years.
I know they are amazing lenses but I don't know if they are wasted on me and should just switch to another brand were I will have more lens options.
Its hard because sony bodies drop so much because of the release schedule so its easy to get in. But once in you need a friggin mortgage for lenses! Hehe
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That's the beauty of Mirrorless though, isn't it? Go buy a Nikon/Canon/Rokinon or whatever and stick it on. There's no requirement to stick to FE glass, especially if you can't afford it! There's some amazing lenses out there, give them a shot. I certainly discovered a new side to my photography as a result.
 
Photopaque said:
I still struggle with the fact that I paid £450 for a 55mm f1.8 and £760 for a 70-200 F4. This was crazy money for me because the actual A7 with 28-70 only cost me £700 but I needed these lenses.
I still find it hard to stay with the system as the lenses are so expensive. Basically I cant buy anymore of the current lens Line up now for at least 2 years.
I know they are amazing lenses but I don't know if they are wasted on me and should just switch to another brand were I will have more lens options.
Its hard because sony bodies drop so much because of the release schedule so its easy to get in. But once in you need a friggin mortgage for lenses! Hehe
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To be fair I agree the 55 is overpriced (as good as it is) because similar lenses on FF for Nikon and Canon are less than £150 (50mm f1.8) however £760 for the 70-200 is a bargain when you consider the Nikon 70-200 f4 is closer to £950!
 
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