The Amazing Sony A1/A7/A9/APS-C & Anything else welcome Mega Thread!

jonneymendoza said:
Besides af what else is lacking then in mirror less? 10 years is a guesstimate. Could be sooner. In fact all Sony need to do is slap on af system that's as good as a 5D3 and it's game over for mirrored slrs
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How are you two finding it so difficult to realise Im talking present, not future, wether its 5 or 10 years? Its obvious mirrorless sales will eventually exceed mirrored. Arent you really stating the obvious? If it was that easy don't you think Sony would've already had an AF system as good as Canikons, get real.
 
twist said:
But you said rival / surpass, not 'they are moving into the right direction'. Theres a big difference.
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Surely as always it depends on how the user uses the gear.

For example I'm not interested it tracking birds in flight and I'll happily trade lightening fast focus for accuracy and not having to micro adjust lenses. Not that every Canon or Nikon body has lightening fast focus and amazing focus tracking as I'm sure they don't which brings me to another point. When discussing the strengths and weaknesses of these systems we're possibly taking the extremes and assuming that they're the norm when they probably aren't and may even not be relevant to many users.

If you want the fastest tracking thing right now it'll probably be a very top end DSLR but that's a tiny market segment when most people have an entry level model with a kit lens.
 
twist said:
How are you two finding it so difficult to realise Im talking present, not future, wether its 5 or 10 years? Its obvious mirrorless sales will eventually exceed mirrored. Arent you really stating the obvious? If it was that easy don't you think Sony would've already had an AF system as good as Canikons, get real.
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Did I say it was easy.

I guesstimate that it would take between 5 to 10 years to have a mirror less that can do everything a mirrored camera can.

I don't care about u mentioning the present because I am not. I am mentioning the future of mirror less.

You get real ;)
 
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jonneymendoza said:
Did I say it was easy.

I guesstimate that it would take between 5 to 10 years to have a mirror less that can do everything a mirrored camera can.

I don't care about u mentioning the present because I am not. I am mentioning the future of mirror less.

You get real ;)
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I am, I don't have a car that flys. :rolleyes:
 
woof woof said:
Surely as always it depends on how the user uses the gear.

For example I'm not interested it tracking birds in flight and I'll happily trade lightening fast focus for accuracy and not having to micro adjust lenses. Not that every Canon or Nikon body has lightening fast focus and amazing focus tracking as I'm sure they don't which brings me to another point. When discussing the strengths and weaknesses of these systems we're possibly taking the extremes and assuming that they're the norm when they probably aren't and may even not be relevant to many users.

If you want the fastest tracking thing right now it'll probably be a very top end DSLR but that's a tiny market segment when most people have an entry level model with a kit lens.
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Of course it does, but in order to surpass something surely it has to be better in all/most areas?

You're right, not all the Canikon etc have the most amazing AF but even the middle of the range DX models have excellent AF and yes a lot of things may not be relevant e.g. you mainly use MF so AF means jack. Again, the OP was referring to the higher end models so comments are based on that.
 
Rizvan said:
To be honest, I used my A7 to track planes at the Cleethorpes Air Show last year and found the AF Tracking good enough (see my Flickr)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/rizvanhussain/sets/72157645949808315/
:)
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Yeah the tracking isn't as bad as it's made out to be. Last week I was shooting moving subjects (people) in super low light (f1.8/ISO6400 kind of low) and the tracking worked better than I expected - not as good as my old D800 admittedly, but decent enough and things can only get better from here.

And hey there are still areas where my A7 AF by far exceeds the capabilites of my old D800. For what I normally shoot DSLR AF would be a downgrade.
 
twist said:
Of course it does, but in order to surpass something surely it has to be better in all/most areas?

You're right, not all the Canikon etc have the most amazing AF but even the middle of the range DX models have excellent AF and yes a lot of things may not be relevant e.g. you mainly use MF so AF means jack. Again, the OP was referring to the higher end models so comments are based on that.
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Yes, my point is that the general point that DSLR's are sports cars and CSC are slugs is plainly over simplistic.

You may remember a link posted some time ago comparing the tracking abilities of various CSC's and a top end Nikon (shooting dirt bikes jumping about) in which some of the CSC's actually did very well and as far as I remember the GH4 was very good. So, the difference between the very best CSC and the very best DSLR could arguably be minimal when looking at focus tracking. When looking at focus speed I believe I'm right in saying that the best CSC+lens combo beats the very best DSLR+lens combo at the moment and that's before we consider accuracy and consistency.

So, at the moment there may be very little difference between the best of each breed but for us in A7 land the situation at present is that we don't have either the very fastest focus or top end DSLR rivalling tracking so if those things are important then a Nikon D4s or whatever it's called is the way forward. However, the performance of other CSC's tells us that fast focus and better tracking in a CSC is possible so IMVHO it's just a matter of time before this performance comes to A7 land. Exactly when it'll come I don't know and I'm only half interested anyway :D but I think we can all agree that for fast tracking ability an A7 possibly isn't the state of the art choice but for general "stuff" and even quite specialised stuff like landscape, architecture, fashion, portrait and general walking about and shooting "stuff" an A7 series body could well be perfectly adequate and coupled with a very good lens could easily be a more than justified choice when compared to any DSLR.

:D
 
woof woof said:
Yes, my point is that the general point that DSLR's are sports cars and CSC are slugs is plainly over simplistic.

You may remember a link posted some time ago comparing the tracking abilities of various CSC's and a top end Nikon (shooting dirt bikes jumping about) in which some of the CSC's actually did very well and as far as I remember the GH4 was very good. So, the difference between the very best CSC and the very best DSLR could arguably be minimal when looking at focus tracking. When looking at focus speed I believe I'm right in saying that the best CSC+lens combo beats the very best DSLR+lens combo at the moment and that's before we consider accuracy and consistency.

So, at the moment there may be very little difference between the best of each breed but for us in A7 land the situation at present is that we don't have either the very fastest focus or top end DSLR rivalling tracking so if those things are important then a Nikon D4s or whatever it's called is the way forward. However, the performance of other CSC's tells us that fast focus and better tracking in a CSC is possible so IMVHO it's just a matter of time before this performance comes to A7 land. Exactly when it'll come I don't know and I'm only half interested anyway :D but I think we can all agree that for fast tracking ability an A7 possibly isn't the state of the art choice but for general "stuff" and even quite specialised stuff like landscape, architecture, fashion, portrait and general walking about and shooting "stuff" an A7 series body could well be perfectly adequate and coupled with a very good lens could easily be a more than justified choice when compared to any DSLR.

:D
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All I can speak of is my own experience which puts the D700/800/750 AF far ahead of what Ive used with fast aperture lenses from any CSC manufacturer in terms of tracking and CAF. The cameras are improving but they arent there yet. I really don't pay much attention to which of the CSC manufacturer 'thinks' they have the worlds fastest AF, because apparently they all do lol!
 
twist said:
All I can speak of is my own experience which puts the D700/800/750 AF far ahead of what Ive used with fast aperture lenses from any CSC manufacturer in terms of tracking and CAF. The cameras are improving but they arent there yet. I really don't pay much attention to which of the CSC manufacturer 'thinks' they have the worlds fastest AF, because apparently they all do lol!
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Well they all claim these things in turn as they bring out new models but there's nothing too surprising in that as the world record is there to be beaten and if you think they're telling porkies then go ahead and show them up... but personally I do believe them and the key is that it has to be a specific body and lens combination. These things are crucial when making a specific claim. Even my lowly G1 focuses pretty much instantaneously when fitted with my Oly 25 or 45mm f1.8 lenses although it's much more leisurely when fitted with the Panasonic 20mm. I think that my A7 is a tad slower than my MFT cameras but at least single shot focus is very acceptable with the 55mm f1.8 and with the kit lens too. Fit a very fast focusing Canon DSLR with a Canon 50mm f2.5 and not only will my A7+55mm be faster but I'll be faster focusing manually too :D

I haven't used a top end DSLR, mine were the quite old tech 300D, 10D, 20D and 5D and the performance of any of my CSC seems to be at least comparable and in the case of MFT possibly faster and although I've no doubt that the very latest and very best DSLR's do better than my 5D I've also no doubt that some of the latest CSC's also do a lot better than my MFT or A7. Things will only get better (probably) and at the moment for me any lacking in speed or ability focus tracking wise is a trade I'm willing to make for a much more compact package, a clean senor, a nice debris and insect free VF :D lovely in view focus and exposure aids and a reliable, consistent and adequate if arguably rather relatively pedestrian focus system :D

Choices... choices :D
 
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jonneymendoza said:
If I fall in love with the a7s I can't see myself getting another mirrored dslr
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IME that depends on use, I like CSC and DSLR for different reasons. I work well with both or just a DSLR, cant really get away with just a CSC as much as Ive tried (many, many times).
 
chrism_scotland said:
I fear I might not be able to resist a decent deal on an A7... price wise it seems the best deal of the range right now and bar IBIS seems like it would do all that the A7ii would do, I've been tempted by the A7 + 28-70 deal at £999 and I'm travelling through Heathrow at the weekend where its usually cheaper......
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Well, give us a shout with a price when you go past! I'm sure I can find someone passing through an airport sometime soon..

Edit: According to this - http://boutique.heathrow.com/index.php/products/technology/sony-a7-detail. £50 difference. Not as much as i'd hoped, but ah well.
 
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a7Rii rumoured to be launched shortly and a 50 meg camera that easily out performs the canon 5ds.

Please God make the latter A mount!!!
 
Brazo said:
They do and I suspect(hope) it would be silly to release two high MP E mounters at the same time so fingers crossed for an 'A'
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Sony seems to have neglected A mount but said they are still supporting it, my hope is that the A9 is nothing like the A7, IMO it should be a DSLR style camera thats mirrorless and uses A mount lenses. Basically an A99 without the SLT mirror. Lets hope they get the AF up to scratch if its to compete and also keep the price down!
 
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twist said:
Sony seems to have neglected A mount but said they are still supporting it, my hope is that the A9 is nothing like the A7, IMO it should be a DSLR style camera thats mirrorless and uses A mount lenses. Basically an A99 without the SLT mirror. Lets hope they get the AF up to scratch if its to compete and also keep the price down!
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Is a mount superior to e mount?
 
as a mount, e mount is "better" in some ways, electronic apature, native OS lenses, short flange distance, and smaller, but short flange becomes irrelivant with lens over 60mm at a guess, maybe shorter, electronic apature helps make lens design easier, but on the other hand a mount lenses can be used on m43 cameras too with a simple adapter. and sigma does OS lenses on A mount

the main arguement against a mount is sonys fasination with darling baby e mount and qx cameras, thus neglecting a mount.

a77 and a77ii where atleast as good as the competitors, but sony pushed them as hard as mr burns pushes a rock up hill.
 
pingu666 said:
as a mount, e mount is "better" in some ways, electronic apature, native OS lenses, short flange distance, and smaller, but short flange becomes irrelivant with lens over 60mm at a guess, maybe shorter, electronic apature helps make lens design easier, but on the other hand a mount lenses can be used on m43 cameras too with a simple adapter. and sigma does OS lenses on A mount

the main arguement against a mount is sonys fasination with darling baby e mount and qx cameras, thus neglecting a mount.

a77 and a77ii where atleast as good as the competitors, but sony pushed them as hard as mr burns pushes a rock up hill.
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Err A mount has always had IBIS so why would you need OSS lenses? It also has electronic aperture, I think you mean FBW, those lenses don't feel great to focus so thats a negative. The only positive you've listed is flange distance and thats more a positive for people that use manual lenses than the size saving imo.

In any case, why would we want another CSC from Sony, there are plenty to choose from already in both APSC and FF.
 
twist said:
In any case, why would we want another CSC from Sony, there are plenty to choose from already in both APSC and FF.
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I don't mind if it's a small DSLR size body, but I just want another e-mount to compliment my A7S with good AF.
 
dancook said:
yes FF :) but it's not a bad shout - ff it'd be easier with FLs.
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It would, but A6000 has more lenses at the moment so it wouldnt be a bad stop gap till Sony sort out AF and some more lenses you're likely to buy. The A6000 handling is also nicer than the A7s ime.
 
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