The Amazing Sony A1/A7/A9/APS-C & Anything else welcome Mega Thread!

Nice work.

My new FD adapter arrived from ciecio7 in Poland a couple of days ago. I'm much happier with it than the Pixco, which recently broke as I reported last week (the Open/Lock ring stopped locking).

From a little shooting with it, I think it's cured the odd flare I was experiencing occasionally with my FDn 20mm 2.8. Must try the 17mm f/4 that had similar problems next.
 
I see that the new A7 low light high ISO jobbie (I forget the name...) has a silent electronic shutter.

I have one on my Panasonic GX7 and I have it set to a custom button.
 
woof woof said:
I see that the new A7 low light high ISO jobbie (I forget the name...) has a silent electronic shutter.

I have one on my Panasonic GX7 and I have it set to a custom button.
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It does, which makes it more interesting. I just hope that it's a feature that stays around in subsequent FE mount cameras. Sony are covering a lot of ground lately, I just wish they'd be a bit quicker with the lenses.

There are a few more details on the A7s that I've not seen reported yet, but nothing earth shattering, all the big news is out there already.
 
Crossroads said:
It does, which makes it more interesting. I just hope that it's a feature that stays around in subsequent FE mount cameras. Sony are covering a lot of ground lately, I just wish they'd be a bit quicker with the lenses.

There are a few more details on the A7s that I've not seen reported yet, but nothing earth shattering, all the big news is out there already.
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They are very good with releasing new cameras not so good at support or releasing lenses.
 
twist said:
They are very good with releasing new cameras not so good at support or releasing lenses.
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That is one thing I did try to get across to them when I saw them. Releasing a more detailed lens road map is a good thing, and gives us confidence to invest in a system.

That's one thing Fuji does absolutely right that I wish other companies would pick up on. Knowing that Fuji had 24-70mm and 70-200mm equivalent f2.8 weather sealed lenses coming this year was the biggest thing tempting me to the Fuji side. Unfortunately for them that wasn't quite enough, but I wouldn't have even seriously considered them otherwise.
 
Crossroads said:
It does, which makes it more interesting. I just hope that it's a feature that stays around in subsequent FE mount cameras. Sony are covering a lot of ground lately, I just wish they'd be a bit quicker with the lenses.
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I've just been looking at the price of the 55mm f1.8 and 35mm f2.8 but to be honest a manual 50mm f1.8 has been on my A7 for weeks and when it does come off a manual 28mm f2.8 goes on so dropping £1500 or so on these new lenses looks a bit much. Dunno what to do.
 
7 Lenses in about 8 months? It took Sony about 3 years to announce 7 lenses for the e-mount when it first came out. And roughly 4 years to bring out 8 lenses for A-mount (Some of them were redesigned Minoltas). This is record breaking for Sony.
 
Micehorns said:
7 Lenses in about 8 months? It took Sony about 3 years to announce 7 lenses for the e-mount when it first came out. And roughly 4 years to bring out 8 lenses for A-mount (Some of them were redesigned Minoltas). This is record breaking for Sony.
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8 months - 5 lenses. 35, 55, 24-70, 28-70, 70-200. Lens development is a lot faster than it was for NEX though. 15 lenses by the end of 2015.

I sold my A7 a while back due to the roadmap not really having anything I wanted besides the 55. Was a lot of money tied up for a one lens system, especially when Fuji sensor performance isnt far off and in some instances better but also with a lot more lenses available.
 
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twist said:
8 months - 5 lenses. 35, 55, 24-70, 28-70, 70-200. Lens development is a lot faster than it was for NEX though. 15 lenses by the end of 2015.

I sold my A7 a while back due to the roadmap not really having anything I wanted besides the 55. Was a lot of money tied up for a one lens system, especially when Fuji sensor performance isnt far off and in some instances better but also with a lot more lenses available.
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To me the lenses or lack of isn't really that much of an issue as I'm still reasonably happy with cheap manual lenses. What I would like to see is a little less emphasis on ultimate quality (and the price that comes with that...) and instead what I'd champion is a range of lenses that are merely good enough and with just being good enough rather than aiming to be amongst the best lenses ever made hopefully these lenses could be lighter and smaller.

As I've said here before, I really couldn't wish for a better AF 50mm f1.4 than my old Sigma (now sold) and even my legacy lenses are good enough in my opinion as their only real issue (again in my opinion) seems to be vignetting at the widest apertures.

Also, I'd agree that Fuji or any other recent camera is very probably good enough. The appeal of the rather expensive A7 for me is simply that it's FF and I can use my manual lenses on it at their intended FoV. Other than that my GX7 is very probably good enough.
 
I think the camera is ideal for you but a lot of people want AF lenses. Totally agree, they should bring out a cheaper set of lenses, even just the basics instead of pushing the expensive Zeiss lenses so much. 28, 35, 50, 85 1.8 lenses would suit most people and imo sell very well, but with it being E mount they will be large.

Love my Sigma primes.

The sensor is definitely the appeal, shame about the lenses for the rest of us, the only bad thing most have to say and Id agree with is the lens line up, always been a Sony issue though. Perhaps it will be worthwhile in the future when the new lens roadmap is out but for now, Im glad I sold and invested elsewhere, by the time Im ready to pick another up they will be cheap as chips and hopefully other manufacturers will have jumped on the bandwagon.
 
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twist said:
I think the camera is ideal for you but a lot of people want AF lenses. Totally agree, they should bring out a cheaper set of lenses, even just the basics instead of pushing the expensive Zeiss lenses so much. 28, 35, 50, 85 1.8 lenses would suit most people and imo sell very well, but with it being E mount they will be large.
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TBH I'd prefer AF lenses but these days that probably means huge fat lumps with fly by wire focusing, no end stops and no markings and those things are what drove me to use manual lenses on CSC's. With my Canon set up the lenses were big and fat but at least they had end stops and markings.

I don't know how large basic design FF AF lenses need to be but in these days of on line lab test reports and on screen pixel peeping at 500% who's going to buy a modern version of an old Rokkor 50mm f1.8 engineered for the A7 even with AF? It'd be dismissed as garbage by DXO and DP Review and no one except me would buy it.
 
woof woof said:
I don't know how large basic design FF AF lenses need to be but in these days of on line lab test reports and on screen pixel peeping at 500% who's going to buy a modern version of an old Rokkor 50mm f1.8 engineered for the A7 even with AF? It'd be dismissed as garbage by DXO and DP Review and no one except me would buy it.
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The same people who buy Canikon 35, 50, 85 1.8 lenses, they arent the best built but have AF and any prime nowadays has very good image quality and decent AF. And it only has to cost up to around £300. 3 primes for under 1k, Id go for that and it would be a complete system for the A7.
 
A great sensor with great lenses seems to be the Sony and Zeiss joint vision. The quality for the price you pay looks relatively cheap compared to other similar systems. There are plenty of options for cheaper smaller cameras if you go to Fuji or Panasonic but even some of their top lenses are in the very high hundreds or over a grand. Top glass always costs no matter what brand you are buying.
 
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Laudrup said:
A great sensor with great lenses seems to be the Sony and Zeiss joint vision. The quality for the price you pay looks relatively cheap compared to other similar systems. There are plenty of options for cheaper smaller cameras if you go to Fuji or Panasonic but even some of their top lenses are in the very high hundreds or over a grand. Top glass always costs no matter what brand you are buying.
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The problem is they will bring out 5 or 6 or 10 different camera revisions before those lenses see the light of day. As said, the camera and the camera price isnt the problem. 'Great sensor with great lenses', most cameras offer that nowadays but add the choice of lenses.

Fuji and M43 offer a huge amount of very good lenses from as little as a few hundred quid, the range caters for all users/budgets.
 
Laudrup said:
A great sensor with great lenses seems to be the Sony and Zeiss joint vision. The quality for the price you pay looks relatively cheap compared to other similar systems. There are plenty of options for cheaper smaller cameras if you go to Fuji or Panasonic but even some of their top lenses are in the very high hundreds or over a grand. Top glass always costs no matter what brand you are buying.
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I appreciate what Sony and their partners seem to be doing and I understand that quality costs dosh and I don't doubt that the 35 and 55mm primes at least are top notch and maybe even reasonably priced for the quality they offer but...

If you don't want to print the size of a barn and have state of the art sharpness corner to corner and can refrain from pixel peeping at 200%+ IMVHO a modest lens of quite a basic design is possibly going to be good enough for many people. For example I fully realise and accept that my Rokkors and Zuikos can not match the ultimate quality of class leading or maybe even quite ordinary modern lenses for example they can't even begin to match the Canon fit Sigma 50 and 85mm f1.4's I used to own for ultimate quality when pixel peeping but for many subjects and uses the old lenses are arguably good enough and although it'll never happen what I'd like to see is a range of compact and light good enough AF lenses.

With the smaller systems there are a couple of bargains. From the outside looking in the Fuji system looks impressive and they seem to be heading down the quality route but certainly with MFT there are some very reasonably priced offerings from the camera manufacturers, I'm thinking of the Oly 45mm f1.8, probably the 25mm f1.8 and the Panasonic 20mm f1.7 and maybe some others and certainly the cheap but well received Sigma f2.8 primes for MFT and APS-C CSC's and that's all very nice and I'd like to see similar good but not aiming to be cutting edge offerings for the A7.

Just my little dream :D and it wont happen any time soon if ever.
 
twist said:
The problem is they will bring out 5 or 6 or 10 different camera revisions before those lenses see the light of day. As said, the camera and the camera price isnt the problem. 'Great sensor with great lenses', most cameras offer that nowadays but add the choice of lenses.

Fuji and M43 offer a huge amount of very good lenses from as little as a few hundred quid, the range caters for all users/budgets.
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The Fuji and MFT are small sensors compared to the Sony full frame 36mp and no AA. A smaller sensor you can make smaller and cheaper lenses. Sony are doing it the right way, get the sensor right and pair it with top quality lenses. There are plenty of options for other cameras if you want smaller and cheaper lenses.
 
Laudrup said:
The Fuji and MFT are small sensors compared to the Sony full frame 36mp and no AA. A smaller sensor you can make smaller and cheaper lenses. Sony are doing it the right way, get the sensor right and pair it with top quality lenses. There are plenty of options for other cameras if you want smaller and cheaper lenses.
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Ermmm, okay, so how do they develop cheap lenses for a FF DSLR? Not everyone wants Zeiss lenses, make it slightly worse, slap a G badge on and you can charge half the price.

I never said I wanted smaller lenses. Its obvious FF lenses are going to be larger.

Right way in your opinion, clearly the market doesnt agree or everyone would be selling their cameras to buy Sony cameras. I think you'll find people want choice. The more options, the better the system will sell.
 
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twist said:
Ermmm, okay, so how do they develop cheap lenses for a FF DSLR? Not everyone wants Zeiss lenses, make it slightly worse, slap a G badge on and you can charge half the price.

I never said I wanted smaller lenses. Its obvious FF lenses are going to be larger.

Right way in your opinion, clearly the market doesnt agree or everyone would be selling their cameras to buy Sony cameras. I think you'll find people want choice. The more options, the better the system will sell.
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Because Nikon alone produces 5 million lenses every 6 or 7 months and has very mature systems and R&D and benefits from economies of scale. You can use the Sony LA-EA4 for your A glass or use the 28-70 kit lens so it's not as if all the lenses are some huge price. A used 35 Zeiss was on here for £400 about a week ago. There might be cheaper Sony primes down the line but I wouldn't launch a system with them.
 
Laudrup said:
Because Nikon alone produces 5 million lenses every 6 or 7 months and has very mature systems and R&D and benefits from economies of scale. You can use the Sony LA-EA4 for your A glass or use the 28-70 kit lens so it's not as if all the lenses are some huge price. A used 35 Zeiss was on here for £400 about a week ago. There might be cheaper Sony primes down the line but I wouldn't launch a system with them.
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Sony has a lot of money for R&D, have you seen how many different camera models they release in a year?! Im sure they could spare a few quid making some cheaper lenses that will definitely help their cameras sell.

Why would I want to add another piece to a camera? Isnt it supposed to be a CSC?

28-70 is a slow lens, not a fast prime, not everyone wants a slow, expensive (for what it is), zoom. So youd rather launch a system with no lenses then release expensive lenses in dribs and drabs? Hmmm, bit odd, considering they are in the business to sell cameras and make money, the larger the target audience the more money they make. Lenses sell the camera, it is after all an interchangeable system.
 
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twist said:
Sony has a lot of money for R&D, have you seen how many different camera models they release in a year?! Im sure they could spare a few quid making some cheaper lenses that will definitely help their cameras sell.

Why would I want to add another piece to a camera? Isnt it supposed to be a CSC?

28-70 is a slow lens, not a fast prime, not everyone wants a slow, expensive (for what it is), zoom. So youd rather launch a system with no lenses then release expensive lenses in dribs and drabs? Hmmm, bit odd, considering they are in the business to sell cameras and make money, the larger the target audience the more money they make. Lenses sell the camera, it is after all an interchangeable system.
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Why launch a brand new mount and give you the best sensor on the market and skimp on the glass? It makes no sense at all. People have no problem adding adapters for manual focus lenses so why is there suddenly a problem using something that lets you use A glass and as many cheap primes as Sony/Minolta make?
 
Why launch a camera and not give people a choice of what they want to spend? That makes no sense. Look at the Nikon 85 1.8g, one of the best rated lenses, under 400 quid! I think you mean SOME people, don't mind adapters. The facts are people would buy a cheaper series of lenses if they were available, just because it's not Zeiss doesn't mean it's crap. Don't believe me? Have a look on the web how many people don't use top end lenses with a ff dslr.
 
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I remember an article in Amateur Photographer some years ago... a guy who was well known in the industry (and who is sadly no longer with us) and who wrote in AP was invited to attend a meeting at a well known German lens manufacturer and when he proposed that they make some smaller and cheaper lenses (smaller aperture and therefore smaller and cheaper) their shocked repost was words to the effect of "We should make lenses less good than we can?" The reason he suggested this radical move was that a Japanese manufacturer was doing just that and racking up the sales. After giving it some thought they took his advice and introduced some less good lenses :D
 
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twist said:
Why launch a camera and not give people a choice of what they want to spend? That makes no sense. Look at the Nikon 85 1.8g, one of the best rated lenses, under 400 quid! I think you mean SOME people, don't mind adapters. The facts are people would buy a cheaper series of lenses if they were available, just because it's not Zeiss doesn't mean it's crap. Don't believe me? Have a look on the web how many people don't use top end lenses with a ff dslr.
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Nikon benefit from economies of scale the more they make the more the price can be driven down. The Zeiss lens line up looks carefully selected in terms of focal length and quality and the adapter can incorporate people who have existing A glass. You have an almost unlimited choice of manual focus lenses to use via adapter and some of the highest performing native lenses tested at DxO. If the fact it is missing for now a native mount nifty fifty is a deal breaker then you're buying into the wrong system.
 
Laudrup said:
Nikon benefit from economies of scale the more they make the more the price can be driven down. The Zeiss lens line up looks carefully selected in terms of focal length and quality and the adapter can incorporate people who have existing A glass. You have an almost unlimited choice of manual focus lenses to use via adapter and some of the highest performing native lenses tested at DxO. If the fact it is missing for now a native mount nifty fifty is a deal breaker then you're buying into the wrong system.
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I already bought into it and got rid after i saw the roadmap, a very slow 35 f2.8 or a good 55 and some slow zooms, not much choice there for me. Like i said 1 lens doesnt make a system. Adapter no thanks its supposed to be a Csc, mf lenses no thanks dont have all day.

A nifty fifty is 80 quid im talking around 300 a lens for something that would suit most of people like the nikon Gs, and the economies of scale is rubbish, sony produce cheap e and a mount primes that are good lenses.

Going round in circles. You clearly have a much larger budget for camera gear than a lot of people and dont think the people that can afford an a7 deserve to own any lenses for it unless they buy the best.
 
twist said:
I already bought into it and got rid after i saw the roadmap, a very slow 35 f2.8 or a good 55 and some slow zooms, not much choice there for me. Like i said 1 lens doesnt make a system. Adapter no thanks its supposed to be a Csc, mf lenses no thanks dont have all day.

A nifty fifty is 80 quid im talking around 300 a lens for something that would suit most of people like the nikon Gs, and the economies of scale is rubbish, sony produce cheap e and a mount primes that are good lenses.

Going round in circles. You clearly have a much larger budget for camera gear than a lot of people and dont think the people that can afford an a7 deserve to own any lenses for it unless they buy the best.
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I don't know why you would pay the best part of what, £1500 on a system that had a new mount and expect loads of cheap native mount primes for it. Even the Nikon 1.8G range yeah fine for maybe down the line when the camera has carved out a niche and then IQ and build quality can take a bit of a hit for price but you don't start off on your weaker foot.
 
Laudrup said:
I don't know why you would pay the best part of what, £1500 on a system that had a new mount and expect loads of cheap native mount primes for it. Even the Nikon 1.8G range yeah fine for maybe down the line when the camera has carved out a niche and then IQ and build quality can take a bit of a hit for price but you don't start off on your weaker foot.
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Hmmm lets see, because a lot of people dont have 5k to throw at a camera system and nikon g performance woukd be more than acceptable compared to a slow giant expensive zoom!! Man how the other half must live! I dont know how you can call a camera with 1 fast prime a 'system', how foolish to think a camera needs lenses for all kinds of users budgets. Must be why the a7 is stealing m43/fujis thunder... or not
 
twist said:
I dont know how you can call a camera with 1 fast prime a 'system',...
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You do it with a smile on your face :D



and I forgot to include my AF 28-70mm thingy.
 
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I think the lens issue is partly from the "lets throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks" and also it takes longer to design and produce lenses, i guess, and you probably cant go back to the old film camera's lens designs that had short flanges with af because digital sensors are more sensitive to colour shift.

canon and nikon presumably had the advantage of being able to recycle atleast some of the optical bits in lenses when they changed there mount along time ago.

that being said sony probably could recycle the cheap a mount primes with there pointless sam onboard drive to fe or e mount
 
It makes me laugh people complaining about the lack of lenses. Its clear to see what's available before you buy the body, so only your self to blame. As for slow lenses, i think people are getting caught up in the numbers game of wanting a f1.4 because its technically better. the 35mm f2.8 is a fantastic lens for the system, nice and compact, great optics and suites the body to make it a large compact camera. The f4 24-70 i'm finding brilliant ive barely taken it off the camera since getting it.

Some people are more interested in the specs of their camera than the actual photos it takes. As for manual focus on these being slow, i think not. Im a convert and find it very easy to get perfect focus very quickly.
 
robj20 said:
It makes me laugh people complaining about the lack of lenses. Its clear to see what's available before you buy the body, so only your self to blame. As for slow lenses, i think people are getting caught up in the numbers game of wanting a f1.4 because its technically better. the 35mm f2.8 is a fantastic lens for the system, nice and compact, great optics and suites the body to make it a large compact camera. The f4 24-70 i'm finding brilliant ive barely taken it off the camera since getting it.

Some people are more interested in the specs of their camera than the actual photos it takes. As for manual focus on these being slow, i think not. Im a convert and find it very easy to get perfect focus very quickly.
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Actually when I bought it (and a lot of other early adopters), it wasnt available in the UK and there was no extended roadmap just yet, so no, it wasnt clear! No, its not a numbers game, F1.4 for what/how I take photos of is better, fact. I highly doubt youre going to manual focus as fast or as accurately as my AF lenses at F1.4 and nail it pretty much every time even on a slightly moving target.

Im not saying its a crap system, it just needs more options for AF lenses (not only Zeiss).
 
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Question for those that know about FD lenses, which is better the 70-210 f4 or 80-200 f4? I was tempted by the new FE lens but im not willing to spend so much on a lens i use rarely. the 70-210 can be had from £39 for a good used and £89 for an unused lens, the 80-200 is about £80.
 
robj20 said:
As for manual focus on these being slow, i think not. Im a convert and find it very easy to get perfect focus very quickly.
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With CSC's with magnified view I believe that if you have the time to focus you should be able to do so more accurately than with AF because if you have the time to MF at a magnified view you choose the point of focus. I find that with a CSC my MF keeper rate is higher than I've ever had with AF. The key is though that you have to have the time to MF and I wouldn't bother to MF with a DSLR for anything other than hyperfocal, zone or a macro or subject big in the frame shot.
 
twist said:
Hmmm lets see, because a lot of people dont have 5k to throw at a camera system and nikon g performance woukd be more than acceptable compared to a slow giant expensive zoom!! Man how the other half must live! I dont know how you can call a camera with 1 fast prime a 'system', how foolish to think a camera needs lenses for all kinds of users budgets. Must be why the a7 is stealing m43/fujis thunder... or not
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What are you taking photos of that you need all of these fast primes for? It seems to be making excuses for the sake of excuses. You've got loads of lenses to choose from on the Sony if you use adapters for autofocus and manual focus.
 
Laudrup said:
What are you taking photos of that you need all of these fast primes for? It seems to be making excuses for the sake of excuses. You've got loads of lenses to choose from on the Sony if you use adapters for autofocus and manual focus.
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Im not the one going round in circles. How am I making excuses? Do you buy an interchangeable to use one lens? Dont be silly. Let me tell you again, I dont want to use adapters or MF lenses, they add bulk/weight to a camera that should be small and we dont live in the 60s anymore.
 
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twist said:
Im not the one going round in circles. How am I making excuses? Do you buy an interchangeable to use one lens? Dont be silly. Let me tell you again, I dont want to use adapters or MF lenses, they add bulk/weight to a camera that should be small and we dont live in the 60s anymore.
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So what do you need all these fast primes for? What are you photographing that only they will do?
 
Laudrup said:
So what do you need all these fast primes for? What are you photographing that only they will do?
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What dont you understand by interchangeable system? Actually a better question, how many lenses do you own? Because i doubt anybody on this forum who owns a camera thinks 3 lenses is far to many.
 
My issue with the sony fe lens mount isn't the limited lens choice (it's a new mount that's fine) but the F4 zooms. What's the point of the soon to be released low ISO king and strapping it to an F4 lens? It does kind of negate the benefits of having such a camera.
 
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