The Alliance or The Dark Side

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Seems so many Canon user are being attracted to Nikon I was wondering if this was a first shift across to the Darkside or do you swap sides on a regular basis. I have been a Canon user since the late 1970s and have looked but never felt the need as the end results aren't really that different. I don't see many users moving from Nikon to Canon just the other way. So what is the biggest reason for shipping across to the darkside? A curious canon user.
 
For what I do Nikon had the better lenses and body.
 
As a rule of thumb Nikon have better wide angles and Canon have better telephoto lenses, the professional who needs certain type of imagery will decide that on a results basis were an hobbyist will decide on price.

I have alway been a Canon user and there are times when you look at the dark side but it goes in cycles of what's best etc grass may look greener but not always the case!!

Chris Gill
 
I was thinking about moving once when I was waiting for a upgrade from my 1dmk2, along come the mk3 but when I tried it I found I could get better results from the wifes 30d lol.Iwas then thinking of the D3 :bang: I then come to my sences and thought about it very deeply.Did I need the latest and greatest the minuet it comes out NO so I just waited for the mk3 to get well and truly sorted before buying one and I am very happy with it and don't think there is a better body out there for what I do.:thumbs:
 
From the meet yesterday, what impressed me most about the Nikons being used was their high ISO performance, and auto-ISO in particular is rather good. That said, I rarely shoot night stuff handheld, so it's not a deciding factor for me :)
 
I really don't think it is to do with what is better as people change sides not even ever tried out the equipment fully and I reckon if 2 images were put side by side the difference would be impossible probably to tell which camera took what. So I think it's more of a vogue thing then anything else. I think the keeping up with the Jones thing is more powerful then the need. I too am looking at the 5d mkII because of the reviews but do I need it? for sure no, but media has done a good job on me and made me feel like I need it when I'm sure my 40d is more than adequate for what I need. Sad really isn't it.
 
Ajophotog said:
I really don't think it is to do with what is better as people change sides not even ever tried out the equipment fully.
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Strictly speaking the Nikon 24-70 is sharper, from what I hear, than the Canon. The 14-24 is also wider than any Canon wide angle zoom, and one of the sharpest lenses around. I've seen photos from it so I know it to be good. Did I rent the equipment and try it for a week, no. Did I goto a shop and try it out, yes. This really was a decision made by what is better. 14-24 is 2mm wider than Canon's 16-35, and sharper. Its a better lens. D700 is a better body than the 5D2, MP and video aside. I've been saying it all week. It is better for what I do.

jerry12953 said:
No more double-page spreads in Photoplus then, Pete!;)
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Balls.
 
"From what you hear" is exactly what I mean, the hype driven marketing machine at work. A pixel is a pixel and a printed dot is a printed dot at the end of the day and I think todays cameras are there equally displaying each and every pixel to it's best. I agree glass is a different thing entirely but top grade glass against top grade glass again is extremely minimal in quality difference. I rarely hear of magazines being consistent and they seem to me to favour the one I assume that sponsors them more with advertising. I have seen quite a change in two mags switching sides and ad content changing to reflect this, subtle but true. Articles shot using one type of camera primarily being swapped due to increased advertising from another. Hence very few articles being shot with the lesser brands. Do others not see this also?
 
Ajophotog said:
"From what you hear" is exactly what I mean, the hype driven marketing machine at work.
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From what I hear from my friends, not Nikon. I don't read reviews. I want real world experience to tell me whats good and I get that. From what I've seen and heard from friends the Nikon 24-70 is technically sharper. The 14-24 is damn sharp too and its a lens that Canon don't do and the 5d2 isn't as good a body. If you need to take comfort from marketing corrupting people then go look somewhere else because I didn't make this decision lightly or based on marketing crap.
 
Pete your decision suits you and no doubt being the excellent photographer you are didn't take to changing you gear lightly I would imagine. It seems strange to me why and what the sudden change in people to transfer their gear to another standard is. Yours is the glass and the body and I'm not saying it's wrong in doing that, if it better for you and you feel better with it that's good. Lots do seem to follow the flow and then the butterfly effect come into play in a mild form of course. I often look at images and think should I change but question what gains I would really get from it and my answers always seem to be not a great deal in quality but a good loss of cash. Maybe I'm still so far back in the old days where a camera would last me 10 years or more and this throw away life style has made people not question their decisions as thoroughly as they should.
 
I think its swings and roundabouts (in most cases.)

If you have a Canon, then Nikon bring out a camera that is within your reach but has a feature youd love but havent got with your Canon.. you feel like changing.

Two months later Canon bring out another that has what the Nikon had.. plus something else, and Nikon fans wish they had that feature on theirs, and so it goes on.

I thoroughly agree with Ajophotog that youd not be able to tell what a pic was taken with, and if there was no tv, mags etc, we would be quite happy with what we have.

Hell, some people are only just finding certain features on their camera bodies after having used the thing for a year!! :D
 
Ajophotog said:
Pete your decision suits you and no doubt being the excellent photographer you are didn't take to changing you gear lightly I would imagine. It seems strange to me why and what the sudden change in people to transfer their gear to another standard is. Yours is the glass and the body and I'm not saying it's wrong in doing that, if it better for you and you feel better with it that's good. Lots do seem to follow the flow and then the butterfly effect come into play in a mild form of course. I often look at images and think should I change but question what gains I would really get from it and my answers always seem to be not a great deal in quality but a good loss of cash. Maybe I'm still so far back in the old days where a camera would last me 10 years or more and this throw away life style has made people not question their decisions as thoroughly as they should.
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Cash wise, it was about the same to swap as to buy a 5d2 and sell my current gear. Shutters don't last 10 years now though because we can take 1,000 photos a day. Hence why my 30D's broke. There are people who will swap sides because the grass seems greener. I've had people ask me whether they should now I have. I keep stressing that this is whats best for me. Its a decision I've made for my business and for my work. I know what I do and I know what I need to do it. Nikon offers me the best way of doing it. Simple as that. I honestly don't think that Canon will in the next 3 years because they seem intent on forcing people to buy a £4k body while Nikon offer similar features at £1.5k. Canon would also have to beat the 14-24. The 5D3 could be a great camera but thats at least 2 years off and I don't see any point in sticking around waiting. I can't see Canon launcing a D700 beater under the 5d2 either.

Janice said:
Two months later Canon bring out another that has what the Nikon had.. plus something else, and Nikon fans wish they had that feature on theirs, and so it goes on.
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Here we are and Canon haven't, imho. They didn't beat the D700 with the 5d2.

I thoroughly agree with Ajophotog that youd not be able to tell what a pic was taken with, and if there was no tv, mags etc, we would be quite happy with what we have.
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You are forgetting that camera manufacturers list specifications of their gear. People read them, decide that it does what they need and then buy it. Its far far too easy to blame fashion, the media and things. Its stupid to think that there aren't people out there who make logical informed decisions.
 
petemc said:
From what I hear from my friends, not Nikon.
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Your friends are unlikely to tell you that they made a wrong decision Pete :cuckoo:

That said I also watched Diego Garcia change over and sometimes a fresh start with fresh kit is exactly what is needed. Your decision is obviously one that was well considered and I wish you nothing but luck with it.

I tend to look at it from the position of someone who is trained in sales.

Generally you have features, advantages and benefits.

Features we are all familiar with. MP, ISO, FPS. They are all features.

Advantages, this is what it allows you to do that you can't do at the moment. For example, take pictures at lower light levels.

Benefits, this is the key thing. Benefits are things like, "It will allow me to sell pictures to a wider market than I could before"

Too often people make buying decisions based purely on features. If only I had..............it would make me a better tog. Very often that is not the case, it's just a lust for the latest toy when they don't use half of the features they have already. Start with the things you need your camera to do and work backwards, that tells you what features you actually need rather than want. Yes those two are often different :naughty:

In Pete's case a breakdown prompted a buying decision and I don't blame him at all for conducting market testing. It's exactly what I would have done in his shoes too. I does make me think what I would do if mine blew up tomorrow.

Gear lust is a terrible disease. My bank account is ample evidence :D
 
The fresh change is a good point as I did stray back in the 80s with an olympus om10 and just couldn't get on with it at all and luckily I still had my A1 which I still use now and again today. For me the change was wrong and I couldn't get to grips with it like my A1 and my photography suffered. I stay with Canon as their equipment suits me and the mp-e 65 still sows that up for me at this moment in time. We are all moved on these days by improvements to our gear and next generation equipment and more I guess will make educated switched or uneducated ones, some for the best and some for just the shear hell of it. Until I change I will never know fully if it's a good or bad move and I think the only way to find out is to change. Maybe one day I will but at the moment nothing has yet enticed me to do so. To all who has switched or re-switched good luck in your choices and I hope it works for you all. The poison is once you start thinking about it, it will eat at you until you do or you will have to put up with a I wonder if the otherside would have been a better choice. All this swapping does make you question your own choices though doesn't it?
 
The Nikons have a little red bit on them. If I switch it will probably be for that reason of course
 
But it's such a nice red
 
It was a blooming annoying red coming from them on a recent training day. Those pesky Nikons that could not focus without first trying to blind the model with something akin to a laser!

Kept getting red casts on the pics we were taking because of them. Seriously they were causing problems and the pro training us had to keep telling one Nikon user to stop trying to focus for a mo so he could shoot.

I'm taking a roll of tape next time to tape over the blasted lights!:naughty:
 
I think that there's going to be an obvious difference in approach when pro's are compared to amateurs. Being a successful pro can often depend on having the best at any period in time and the swap can reap the financial rewards that justify the action. Looking at it from an amatuer's perspective then there's a loss than requires justification....the more gear a person has then the bigger the loss.
From my own position, I would expect to lose about 30-35% of my gear's value to end up at a similar kit level with another manufucturer. Would I really see any difference in the end result at my skill level?....almost certainly not. I doubt that there's anything that I'm capable of that my gear can't provide (unless none of the manufacturer provide it).

The final stopper.....having to change a forum name by deed poll.

Bob
 
Ajophotog said:
Seems so many Canon user are being attracted to Nikon I was wondering if this was a first shift across to the Darkside or do you swap sides on a regular basis. I have been a Canon user since the late 1970s and have looked but never felt the need as the end results aren't really that different. I don't see many users moving from Nikon to Canon just the other way. So what is the biggest reason for shipping across to the darkside? A curious canon user.
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I to was a Canon user from the 70s (F1`s A1`s etc) untill 18 month ago, most of my family and friends use canon (Probably due to me), I just wanted a change, start fresh. I wanted to start thinking about what I was doing, not being able to borrow gear to make the job easy, starting fresh using one lens only for the first year, making the pictres work with what I had. (not take things for granted) Its hard to explain ..... I suppose I just wanted a change. :shrug:
 
gibbo said:
I to was a Canon user from the 70s (F1`s A1`s etc) untill 18 month ago, most of my family and friends use canon (Probably due to me), I just wanted a change, start fresh. I wanted to start thinking about what I was doing, not being able to borrow gear to make the job easy, starting fresh using one lens only for the first year, making the pictres work with what I had. (not take things for granted) Its hard to explain ..... I suppose I just wanted a change. :shrug:
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Was Nikon the obvious choice or did you even consider other brands? I agree it sometime can get you an edge changing gear due to reintroducing a lagging enthusiasm that familiarity may bring. If you gain an advantage in your photography then it was a good thing I guess. I was a bit bemused seeing all the changes of Canon users moving over to Nikon not Olympus, Sony or Pentax which got me thinking is the moves just going with the fashion or was there some real beneficial substance behind it. Seems the latter listening to people on here.

Bob if we cut you in half I reckon you would have canon running through the middle of you ;)
 
petemc said:
Cash wise, it was about the same to swap as to buy a 5d2 and sell my current gear. Shutters don't last 10 years now though because we can take 1,000 photos a day. Hence why my 30D's broke. There are people who will swap sides because the grass seems greener. I've had people ask me whether they should now I have. I keep stressing that this is whats best for me. Its a decision I've made for my business and for my work. I know what I do and I know what I need to do it. Nikon offers me the best way of doing it. Simple as that. I honestly don't think that Canon will in the next 3 years because they seem intent on forcing people to buy a £4k body while Nikon offer similar features at £1.5k. Canon would also have to beat the 14-24. The 5D3 could be a great camera but thats at least 2 years off and I don't see any point in sticking around waiting. I can't see Canon launcing a D700 beater under the 5d2 either.
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Kudos to you Pete for making a decision about what you need to do your stuff and knowing what to do about it. You are now singing the praises of Nikon as the kit you have bought meets your needs, I guess, almost perfectly.... however, the D700 and 14-24mm lens have been available for some time now, and two weeks ago - despite at that time, as now, that combination being better than your previous setup (30D plus 16-30mm??) you wouldn't have said then what you have been saying sine moving to Nikon. It's my guess that if your 30D shutter (was it the 30D....? sorry if wrong) hadn't knackered up, you'd still be singing the praises of Canon.

Horses for courses eh!

Personally, I'd never go for a D3 as this is way over my budget, and thus would be overkill as I could never justify spending that amount even if for sheer pleasure. However, the D700 is another story and I might find myself getting one soon enough. Have no idea what lens to couple it with though, guess this depends on what I want to shoot eh?
 
Ajophotog said:
Was Nikon the obvious choice or did you even consider other brands? I agree it sometime can get you an edge changing gear due to reintroducing a lagging enthusiasm that familiarity may bring. If you gain an advantage in your photography then it was a good thing I guess. I was a bit bemused seeing all the changes of Canon users moving over to Nikon not Olympus, Sony or Pentax which got me thinking is the moves just going with the fashion or was there some real beneficial substance behind it. Seems the latter listening to people on here.

Bob if we cut you in half I reckon you would have canon running through the middle of you ;)
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I just looked at Nikon, did not know anyone who had one so I was not swayed one way or another. The company looks as big as canon with good range of lens`s and camera body's, so room for expansion.
I agree with your comment getting an edge and familiarity etc, its made me thing about what I'm doing as the menus etc on the cameras are not where I was use to so I had to start again, I think I have improved greatly.
I actually go out just with one lens (I have bought one or two new ones over the last few months) and make do with what I take, it is hard to do I must admit.

I have not regretted the move as an amateur I did not loose too much in selling my gear, had about 18month gap and used Nikon since :thumbs:
 
I looked at Nikon first when they released the D70, i didn't like the feel of it and found Canon more intuitive and user friendly and bought a 10D, i've invested quite heavily in the Canon system and did consider switching to Nikon with the D300, and i like the D700 too, but i simply can't afford to sell all my Canon gear and go Nikon. However, i'm happy with my 50D anyway so it doesn't matter.
 
Not heard from anyone that moved and totally regretted it, is that just because... well it's been done and you are blinkered or have the changes been that great that your old kit really was that tosh and not anything to write home about? Sorry if this thread offends anyone but I am genuinely interested in the reasons for so much change and the whys and reactions of your decisions.
 
theMusicMan said:
...however, the D700 and 14-24mm lens have been available for some time now, and two weeks ago - despite at that time, as now, that combination being better than your previous setup (30D plus 16-30mm??) you wouldn't have said then what you have been saying sine moving to Nikon.... It's my guess that if your 30D shutter (was it the 30D....? sorry if wrong) hadn't knackered up, you'd still be singing the praises of Canon.
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Ask anyone in the IRC channel as I've been saying for months how I'd love a D700. I kept hanging on and hanging on because I knew Canon would announce something in August / Sept. They eventually did and while it wasn't perfect it seemed more logical to stay with them. The 30D broke and in a moment of clarity I switched. Canon is still obviously good. I'm finding it hard to be a typical Nikon user because there's nothing to slate. I was using Canon gear a week ago and using it well. If the 30D hadn't have broken it would be fixed by now and I would most likely have a 5d2. I would of course be happy because I wouldn't know how much better the D700 was.

What I'm saying is that I have wanted the Nikon kit for a while but I felt it was silly to move over 1.1fps, my main issue with the 5D2. 30D made me think.
 
I'm not changing, but my dilema is much more of a what is my next body to buy. My 30d is still going, albeit, it now only functions with a grip.... (something to do with a big soaking - John think you'll remember a certain Cardiff meet)

I have too many lenses to move over and with one more on the way in the new year, it's a new Canon body that I want. I'll use my 30d until .......

D700 and D3's do look like they produce stunning image, but the 5d MarkII still doesn't look too slouchy either.
 
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