The 2014 Season F1 Thread

Wheter they win the appeal or more likley not I bet there is a change in the monitoring sensor
Possibley 3 sensors and a mean taken
toyota has looked at this problem and come up with somthing simpler but I cant find out what it is but its apparently being looked at seriously for 2015
 
As a suggestion - why doesn't FIA hold them all in stock and issue them, after testing, at random for each race?
One way to level out the playing field.
 
ChasG said:
As a suggestion - why doesn't FIA hold them all in stock and issue them, after testing, at random for each race?
One way to level out the playing field.
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fuzzyedges said:
Horner reckons the other teams are buying dozens of the FIA approved sensors to find the best one (that will be the one that lets them go over 100 while the fia think they arnt) its getting a bit pathetic
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Because at least one Formula One race engineer began his career in one-make saloon racing with a turbocharged one-make saloon - where we slowly learnt the hard way that there was no skill in tuning the car ... the skill was in tuning the digital boost monitor the organisers handed everyone at random! :whistle:
 
Nobody thought it was a good race? I thought it had a bit of action and the bbc turned up the sound but didnt turn down benny boy
The germans have the needle so that should be fun between rosberg and seb especially as seb showed him the pit wall
Just how many times will Massa hear that "hes faster than you" in his helmet
Alonso is doing what alonso does making a donkey look like a greyhound
Ricardo was going well (once the wonky sensor was culled) till they broke his wing with the jack and screwed up (rather they didnt) his front wheel
All in all enjoyable
 
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i enjoyed the race, the noise isnt everything for me, i like motor racing so the racing element was good!
 
After the first few corners, it turned into a rather boring effort.
 
fuzzyedges said:
Mc larean the first team to stick there heads over the parapit and say Horner is wrong to disobay charlie whiting over the fuel sensor row
Now that is a suprise
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/26812420
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Actually the Charlie Whiting comment in that article is even more telling (and if he has been reported correctly will sink the RB appeal).

FIA race director Charlie Whiting said the technical regulations required teams to measure the fuel-flow with the official sensor, manufactured by a British company called Gill.

"Article 5.10 makes it quite clear in my view that the only way the fuel flow will be measured is with the homologated [officially approved] sensor," Whiting said.

"As you know, Gill is the only sensor that is homologated by the FIA. To me it is perfectly clear."

Whiting was referring to article 5.10.3, which states: "Homologated sensors must be fitted which directly measure the pressure, the temperature and the flow of the fuel supplied to the injectors. These signals must be supplied to the FIA data logger."
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Race wise, I actually enjoyed the last GP more than Australia, and thinking back, probably more than any GP last year.

The muppet show at the RB pit stop was really amusing as well ;).
 
Well, RB can't have the new boy leading St Seb in the driver standings!
 
Wish I'd seen the race, but not able to this time and will miss Bahrain as well.....
 
2014 FORMULA 1 GULF AIR BAHRAIN GRAND PRIX


04_Bahrain_E_72DPI.jpg



Sakhir
Race Date: 06 Apr 2014
Circuit Name: Bahrain International Circuit
First Grand Prix: 2004
Number of Laps: 57
Circuit Length: 5.412 km
Race Distance: 308.238 km
Lap Record: 1:31.447 - P De la Rosa (2005)

UK Times
Fri 04 April 2014
Practice 1 12:00 - 13:30
Practice 2 16:00 - 17:30
Sat 05 April 2014
Practice 3 13:00 - 14:00
Qualifying 16:00
Sun 06 April 2014
Race 16:00

Previous Winners
2013 Sebastian Vettel Red Bull Sakhir
2012 Sebastian Vettel Red Bull Sakhir
2010 Fernando Alonso Ferrari Sakhir
2009 Jenson Button Brawn GP Sakhir
2008 Felipe Massa Ferrari Sakhir
2007 Felipe Massa Ferrari Sakhir
2006 Fernando Alonso Renault Sakhir
2005 Fernando Alonso Renault Sakhir
2004 Michael Schumacher Ferrari Sakhir


Alonso on board 2013
[youtube]

Start onboard 2006
[youtube]


Ricciardo will have a ten-place grid penalty for the unsafe pit release in Malaysia.
Malaysia was Mercedes first 1-2 since Monza 1955
Lewis Hamilton now has the most pole positions by an Englishman and ties with Jim Clark for British poles with 33.


hJhGIUw.png
 
Dave1 said:
Actually the Charlie Whiting comment in that article is even more telling (and if he has been reported correctly will sink the RB appeal).

Article 5.10 makes it quite clear in my view that the only way the fuel flow will be measured is with the homologated [officially approved] sensor," Whiting said.
;).
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Playing the devils advocate, Charlies interpretation says if the sensor is drifting it is still the only way fuel can be measured, which is absurd
Fuel can be measured by calculation because that is what happens if a sensor fails
The argument is from fia that the sensor was not faulty what ever happened was within tolerance or could have an offset to bring it back in line from red bull the sensor was drifting therfore faulty and they can proove the amount of fuel they used (independantly tested)
They will of course loose be fined and the disqualification will stand, Its just a matter of time before a new system is installed to measure the flow without wonky sensors now its been trumpeted by red bull
 
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fuzzyedges said:
Playing the devils advocate, Charlies interpretation says if the sensor is drifting it is still the only way fuel can be measured, which is absurd
Fuel can be measured by calculation because that is what happens if a sensor fails
The argument is from fia that the sensor was not faulty what ever happened was within tolerance or could have an offset to bring it back in line from red bull the sensor was drifting therfore faulty and they can proove the amount of fuel they used (independantly tested)
They will of course loose be fined and the disqualification will stand, Its just a matter of time before a new system is installed to measure the flow without wonky sensors now its been trumpeted by red bull
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Possibly, but ultimately the decision must stand, irrespective of the rights and wrongs of the system, all the teams have to obey the instructions of the Race Director during the race. Allowing a team to start second guessing and arguing the toss during a race will lead to even more problems.
 
Dave1 said:
Possibly, but ultimately the decision must stand, irrespective of the rights and wrongs of the system, all the teams have to obey the instructions of the Race Director during the race. Allowing a team to start second guessing and arguing the toss during a race will lead to even more problems.
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Another quote from Charlie
“Fundamentally the technical directives are opinions” said Whiting. “They always have been given by the technical department to teams and normally they’re happy to follow that, but it’s always been made perfectly clear that at be contested in front of the stewards.”
Which is what red bull are doing
http://richlandf1.com/?p=20793
 
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Slimbert said:
Because that would be admitting that they read differently.
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Every sensor ever made will read slightly differently, thats why when you buy one from a manufacturer, you get a certificate that states that it has been calibrated to certain conditions and tolerances...
 
A man with one watch knows the time. The man with two watches does not.

I am quite glad that I am not a shareholder in Gill Instruments right now.
 
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Ha, I heard the sensor was made by Gill Engineering this weekend, they're local to where I used to live and I dated someone who worked there for awhile . I know someone there, rumour is they're moving ( hiding ) money all over the place at the moment in case Red Bulls lawyers come after them.
 
GeeJay57 said:
A man with one watch knows the time. The man with two watches does not.

I am quite glad that I am not a shareholder in Gill Instruments right now.
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I have 3 watches and some clocks which all show exactly the same time.
 
Nod said:
I have 3 watches and some clocks which all show exactly the same time.
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Unlikely, they will all be very slightly different from each other unless they are all synchronised with an atomic time standard, like GPS satellite clocks. Even then, there are differences, but probably only at picosecond resolution.

In any case my comment is an old adage, well before the days of quartz digital accuracy. Today, even cheap watches and clocks keep pretty good time, but they are not synchronous and will therefore in the limit, differ from each other.
 
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As you say, they are synched with the atomic standard in Germany. They probably do vary at even the millisecond level but since they only display to the second, to all intents and purposes they show exactly the same time. The most valuable watch I use is probably the least accurate but it's older than me, not to mention better made!
 
Red bull losing patence with Reno our just hot air ?
"If there is no noticeable improvement in two or three months, we will definitely be talking about an alternative," said Marko, who is famously close to Red Bull's team owner Dietrich Mateschitz.
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns27677.html
And who would they turn too
The april fool had them buying Cosworth out (remember we will build our own engines) lunacy or is it
Then there is always Honda maybe maybe not
Money can build a fast engine but it would have to be a lot
 
From the same link
"We cannot put additional horse power in the engine ourselves," said Marko. "But we can hope for trouble between Rosberg and Hamilton and drive past them."

He is referring to the internal battle between Mercedes' 2014 driver duo Nico Rosberg and Lewis Hamilton, who so far in 2014 have traded easy race wins.
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Arrogant idiot, someone should remind him which team has (spectacularly) crashed out when it's driver lost his cool and collided with his team mate, and which team brown noses right up Mr Multi21 Vettels backside.
 
I may be wrong, but RB didn't have the most powerful engine last year, they just had the best combination of aero, engine and driver. Like him or not Seb can pedal. This year Renault drivetrain reliability has been poor and the car is compromised on aero, perhaps more so than MB. The balance for the moment, has shifted. Let's see how it goes, two races does not a season make. FWIW I'm hoping that Lewis has a great season and wins the championship.
 
What about the homologation for engines power unit that happened in Bahrain, I thought that meant they couldn't tinker with it anymore and what they had they had to make do with. So where does Mateschitz expect the missing HP to come from.
 
GeeJay57 said:
This year Renault drivetrain reliability has been poor and the car is compromised on aero, perhaps more so than MB.
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I have a suspicion that the Merc is being held back a little and has another second or so in reserve, it just seems that both Mercs were able to just notch up performance every time it was needed all through the race. Their tyre wear was extremely good as well (quite a change from the previous year).

The balance for the moment, has shifted. Let's see how it goes, two races does not a season make. FWIW I'm hoping that Lewis has a great season and wins the championship.
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Same here, I think after he took a chance going to MB, he deserves it more than the others IMO, and everyone deserves it before Vettel.
 
GeeJay57 said:
This year Renault drivetrain reliability has been poor and the car is compromised on aero, perhaps more so than MB.
.
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Even Lewis is wary of the red bulls with good reason I dont think they are compromised on down force as much as others with the new regs, on the contary the red bull seems to be exceptional in corners (read down force) probably more so than MB but are short on out and out pace so they loose on the straight bits If Reno can sort the ERS systems for the poke in the pants then they will be up there (kers last year and ers this year it does seem the electrics are the archilles heal )
Suprisingly the Williams is the fastest through the traps but not there yet in the down force stakes
It will be intresting to see how Ricardo fares at Bahrain seeing as how he will be 10 places down from where he qualifies so he has to do some real moves to get up with the front men Darey do may be the order of the day
 
Looking at the Beeb's fuel remaining figures, LH seemed to have loads left in the tank so I reckon he could have turned the volume up a bit. Not sandbagging as such, more just doing as much as necessary and making sure he finished. Of course, it's possible that his fuel flow sensor was telling them he was being less frugal... (Unlikely though!)
 
Nod said:
Looking at the Beeb's fuel remaining figures, LH seemed to have loads left in the tank so I reckon he could have turned the volume up a bit. Not sandbagging as such, more just doing as much as necessary and making sure he finished. Of course, it's possible that his fuel flow sensor was telling them he was being less frugal... (Unlikely though!)
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And saving one of the few engines they get this year.
 
Barso said:
What about the homologation for engines power unit that happened in Bahrain, I thought that meant they couldn't tinker with it anymore and what they had they had to make do with. So where does Mateschitz expect the missing HP to come from.
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Good point, well made..
 
Apparently RB are 80 BHP down on the Merc. They were telling Hamiltom to turn his engine down quite early in the race.
 
Big Andy said:
And saving one of the few engines they get this year.
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Indeed, but the fact that he could run at less than 100% and still command the race doesn't bode that well for the other manufacturers.
 
Barso said:
What about the homologation for engines power unit that happened in Bahrain, I thought that meant they couldn't tinker with it anymore and what they had they had to make do with. So where does Mateschitz expect the missing HP to come from.
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They can make alterations for reliability which if a power increase happens so be it
But it would seem to be the software that is the problem
Not to worry though as there appears to be a high powered meeting between Luca di Montezemolo and bernie then later with toddt
Subject how to spice up the races
Quote
On the table will be discussions about the controversial fuel flow meter and whether to abolish it, and how shortening the grand prix distances could spice up the show and also the volume, allowing the engines to rev closer to the 15,000rpm limit.
No doubt Red bull might like the outcome if positive of these talks dont know about merc though
The old saying springs to mind
If you fiddle with it long enough you will eventually break it
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns27682.html
 
Bet if RB and Ferrari were the cars out in front they wouldn't be having these meetings.
 
With the current setup of single big turbo and single exhaust, and capturing as much exhaust energy as possible the exhaust note will be rubbish. Sound pressure level will be reduced simply because more of the energy is being absorbed by the turbo. With all six exhaust pulses going down a single pipe, they all get squashed or blurred together by the time they reach the exit point. Also, because the exit point is through the central space between the rear wing supports and the aero is designed to route as much air through that area as possible, the exhaust gases are surrounded by an an insulating layer of air. A bit like a by-pass jet engine. It's going to be pants for some time yet..
 
Gaz J said:
Apparently RB are 80 BHP down on the Merc. They were telling Hamiltom to turn his engine down quite early in the race.
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Which is why they want to over fuel and get more hp back, sorry be competitive
 
For those who like the rb ferrari conspiricy theories
Who runs F1
quote from previous article in my post above
It also emerges that Ecclestone, who met with CVC bigwig Donald Mackenzie in Malaysia last week, could be looking to revamp the shareholding structure of F1 by inviting top teams like Ferrari and Red Bull to buy into the sport.
 
fuzzyedges said:
For those who like the rb ferrari conspiricy theories
Who runs F1
quote from previous article in my post above
It also emerges that Ecclestone, who met with CVC bigwig Donald Mackenzie in Malaysia last week, could be looking to revamp the shareholding structure of F1 by inviting top teams like Ferrari and Red Bull to buy into the sport.
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What a wonderful idea, let the teams with the most to gain (and have always bent as many rules as possible) gain influence into the controlling body.

What could possibly go wrong?
 
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