Talking of insurance ... what's 'No Claims Discount' all about?

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gramps

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I've got 9 years protected NCD on my van with one insurer and 9 years lifetime protected NCD on my car with another insurer.
At the weekend I was out with the car had a small shunt, insurers (MoreThan) informed and brilliant, car collected, courtesy car, updates daily ... even get called 'Sir'!

Yesterday I had to renew the insurance on my van - email advice was that it would cost just over £400 for the year with the 9 years protected NCD so rang up to arrange renewal.
In answer to the question, "Have you had ....", I informed them of the shunt at the weekend ... not yet resolved, blame/cost etc.
After a few minutes of delightful music the voice came back telling me that the renewal would now be just over £900!
So it got me to thinking ... what's the point of a protected NCD and what does a protected NCD actually do if having a shunt immediately doubles my premium?

I know "its insurance!" but this I can't really get my head around. :shrug:
 
was the renewal with your current insurance company for the van?

give the comparison websites a go you'll probably be able to get a much better quote

If your NCD wasn't protected i think it would usually drop by 2 years if the accident was your fault, the protection stops this from happening.

Even if you have an accident that isn't your fault insurers take the view that people involved in non-fault accidents are more likely to have a fault accident than those who havn't had any accidents.
 
It protects the NCD years but doesn't stop an insurer raising the base premium and it isn't always transferable between insurers.

Just shop around.

If the claim hasn't been resolved then it is counted as being your fault usually unless it is very clear cut eg someone reversed into you while you were parked and not in the car.

I can see why 2 million people don't bother with insurance. Less than 200,000 cars a year are taken away for not being insured and average premium is an eye watering £1400.
 
srichards said:
It protects the NCD years but doesn't stop an insurer raising the base premium and it isn't always transferable between insurers.
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Yes apparantly if I move insurers I can only take 3 of my 9 years NCD :thinking:

srichards said:
I can see why 2 million people don't bother with insurance. Less than 200,000 cars a year are taken away for not being insured and average premium is an eye watering £1400.
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Just what I said to the wife yesterday, after I had the news about the premium increase and after trying to tax it. On the gov.uk/taxdisc website it couldn't see my insurance so I had to go to the Post Office to tax it, taking all of my papers including my current insurance certificate which expires 31/3/2012 the day before my new tax would start ... so I get sent home with the words ringing in my ears, "you need your next certificate to tax it Sir"!
Who said honesty was the best policy! :bang:
 
If you make a claim, your premium increases because of the claim. If you protect your NCB, this increase doesn't happen.

Separately, if you have an accident, your premium increases because of the accident. This has nothing to do with NCB.
 
A friend of mine had very similar problems. His car was stolen, he made a claim and then the car was recovered, he told the insurance Company and thought that that would be the end of it, but on renewal they more than doubled his premium - according to them, he had made a claim and the fact that he withdrew the claim 3 days later made no difference.

They tried to double his premium. They told him that although he still had his NCB, the act of making a claim had removed all of his 'free extras'. He went elsewhere and renewed at less cost than the pre-increase cost. When he told his original insurers why he wasn't renewing they dropped the price even lower than his new quote, and he told them what to do with it.

I can see why 2 million people don't bother with insurance. Less than 200,000 cars a year are taken away for not being insured and average premium is an eye watering £1400.
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I think that one of the problems is that a lot of people at the bottom end (old bangers, limited driving experience, living in high risk areas) also have criminal convictions, and they just can't get insurance at any price, so they don't insure.

Another friend has a criminal conviction for, of all things, breaching some obscure rule about waste storage, she was prosecuted by the Environment Agency. The insurance Companies don't seem to differentiate between a technical rule breach and a real crime and her premium has been trebled - where's the justice in that?
 
It has annoyed me for ages, the meaningless of no claims bonuses. Sure you have 70% or so but if they bump up the premium regardless, you still end up paying more.
 
chameleon said:
It has annoyed me for ages, the meaningless of no claims bonuses. Sure you have 70% or so but if they bump up the premium regardless, you still end up paying more.
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No it's not meaningless........

Let's say that for a 25 year old living in a good area driving a focus on a clean license pays a premium of £1000 with zero no claims bonus. If their NCB was 70% then they would only pay £300 (obviously)......

BUT in parallel to that runs the question "any claims or convictions in the last 3/5 years?" Answer yes to that question and whilst you will still get 70% discount, your premium will be loaded with additional cost because of the claim/conviction.

In the same scenario where you have 70% NCD without protected NCD and had an accident, you premium would shoot straight back up to £1000 PLUS the additional loading for making the claim.

It sucks but unfortunately these people make the rules :rules: :bang::shrug:
 
srichards said:
I can see why 2 million people don't bother with insurance. Less than 200,000 cars a year are taken away for not being insured and average premium is an eye watering £1400.
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The male/female divide is quite eye watering too.

My first car 1.4 Seat Ibiza 4 years old. £1720 fully comp
(not bad by today's standards it would appear!)

My sister then came to insure her car some 2 years later while I was still paying £980 per year.

Daewoo Lanos 1.6 16V twin cam, 2 years old, living at the same address.........£750 :eek:

I cannot condone a lack of insurance, but it's no wonder some risk it given the stats and figures :shrug:
 
My sister had a old r reg astra and it was just under £200 to Insure. My dad gave her his car which was funny enough another r reg astra both 1.6 8 valve same model different colours. Anyway hers died dad brought a new car and gave her his. Phoned the insurance company up and they wanted over £600 to insure it. This was with swinton.
Went on comparison website and got it for £236 with swinton go work that out then.
 
It's not all bad, my renewal is now just over £500 for a year with 3 years no claims, 3 years qualified on a tyre shredding 1.2 Micra (I don't have the speed restricting tartan rug on the parcel shelf that most Micras have, must be an optional extra!). I have to say I'm quite pleased, oddly enough no insurance companies can beat the renewal price.

20 year old male insured for around £500? Can't get better than that surely? Last year I was just under £700 for the year and the year before that I was pro rata £1000 for the year (but got 1 years no claims for 10 months of cover).

Still grudge the money. I'm of the opinion young drivers should get percentage of their premium back if they don't claim, but we're the cash cows so that's never gonna happen!
 
I'm up to my nuts with car insurance, insurers always load everything in their favour, that's their business I suppose, it hardly seems worth making a claim if the following year they're gonna jack up the premiums to a level where you might as well have paid for the damn repair out of your own pocket.
We've been with the "dog" for 15 years, 18 months ago it was £350, our renewal is due in a weeks time, its £2250 and zero years NCD....:lol:
Oh eye, they like taking your money year after year and not having to pay out but if you make a claim, suddenly all that previous stuff goes out the window.
Its the most expensive car....nay, "thing" we've ever owned, and I'm not even gonna go in to the godamn costs involved with mechanical repairs.

The thing is jinxed..
 
Insurance just seems like legal theft nowadays.
They say we're not allowed to say if we're at fault or not ...like its any of their business if I want to be honest or not. ..In fact they're supporting dishonesty with such a demand I think ... Then they take the money but when it comes to arguing a case for you ...OH no, forget that, just split the cost between both parties, force them both to pay an excess and ruin their no claim bonus (which is a charade and smoke screen of waffle anyway)
 
gramps said:
I've got 9 years protected NCD on my van with one insurer and 9 years lifetime protected NCD on my car with another insurer.
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Aah, therein lies your/a problem, be VERY careful what you say to them at this point as the above is not possible, you can say you have the ncb when getting insurance but you are only allowed one, yes I know this sounds mad and I have looked into it vigorously having a car for work, another private, a motorbike and a trike.
Bottom line, ncb is per person not per vehicle as any sensible person would think, therefore if you press the ncb point and they discover you also claim an ncb on another policy they may refuse your claim.
Costs me a bloody fortune having no ncb on 3 of 4 vehicles, some allow if you have 2 cars both same cover ie private or work and you only driving but none do all vehicles I can find and none allow across multi companies as you have done.
Would love to be proved wrong,.save me loads :(
 
I've had different insurance for work vehicle and private vehicle for years and each insurer is aware of the others presence in my life so I don't understand how they could raise any issue ... of course 'it's insurance' so I fully appreciate that anything can happen in the attempt to wriggle out of responsibility.
In the finale it's always the honest that pay so I just continue to rely on the financial support of my customers :)
 
You can have multiple NCDs on multiple policies. I have had so for ages. What you have to declare is that you have use of another vehicle.
 
Forbiddenbiker said:
Insurance just seems like legal theft nowadays.
They say we're not allowed to say if we're at fault or not ...like its any of their business if I want to be honest or not. ..In fact they're supporting dishonesty with such a demand I think ... Then they take the money but when it comes to arguing a case for you ...OH no, forget that, just split the cost between both parties, force them both to pay an excess and ruin their no claim bonus (which is a charade and smoke screen of waffle anyway)
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It is pretty one sided, but you have to understand the way this works.

Your insurer doesn't ask you to lie or to be dishonest - that could make them party to attempted fraud - they just advise you not to admit liability. The theory is that you file a claim with your insurer and they pay, whether you were at fault or not - subject to any exclusions in the policy - but they also entitled to exercise subrogation which gives them the right to try and recover part or all of their loss from the other party. This is prejudiced if you have already admitted liability, particularly in front of witnesses.

The problem is that the other party has probably claimed against his/her own insurer too, and they will follow the same process. If the facts are clear, one of the insurers may agree to settle, but a lot of cases turn into claim and counter claim, and very few of them are worth the cost of litigation, so most are settled by negotiation. It's really turned into a bit of an accounting exercise, with insurers choosing the cheapest option for themselves, and that leaves a lot of us dissatisfied with the outcome.
 
MartynK said:
It is pretty one sided, but you have to understand the way this works.

Your insurer doesn't ask you to lie or to be dishonest - that could make them party to attempted fraud - they just advise you not to admit liability. The theory is that you file a claim with your insurer and they pay, whether you were at fault or not - subject to any exclusions in the policy - but they also entitled to exercise subrogation which gives them the right to try and recover part or all of their loss from the other party. This is prejudiced if you have already admitted liability, particularly in front of witnesses.

The problem is that the other party has probably claimed against his/her own insurer too, and they will follow the same process. If the facts are clear, one of the insurers may agree to settle, but a lot of cases turn into claim and counter claim, and very few of them are worth the cost of litigation, so most are settled by negotiation. It's really turned into a bit of an accounting exercise, with insurers choosing the cheapest option for themselves, and that leaves a lot of us dissatisfied with the outcome.
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You do not have to accept the insurer's assessment - you are the policy owner and you can force litigation at your insurance company's expense. They work for you, not the other way around.

I went through this process for almost 2 years with my insurance company phoning me weekly wanting to take joint responsibility (doing this would cost me my excess and NCB, going to court and losing would have cost me the same, court and winning would have cost me nothing). 1 week before due in court the other party finally accepted liability.
 
srichards said:
You can have multiple NCDs on multiple policies. I have had so for ages. What you have to declare is that you have use of another vehicle.
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As I said, you 'can' , although more and more now dont take your word and ask for written proof of both ncb and lapse date, however your policy can be invalidated should you claim, I have had 3 brokers, 4 insurance companies and 2 legal experts confirm this to me, yet another dodgy practice.
Use of another vehicle is irrelevant, their point is ncb is you not per vehicle, if you choose to under/over/incorrectly insure they are happy to take your money, just not pay it out and or leave you facing being uninsured in event of a problem.

I too happily had several policies as you, thinking all was OK, then discovered this 2 years ago, hopefully you won't have to do the same :(
 
gramps said:
I've had different insurance for work vehicle and private vehicle for years and each insurer is aware of the others presence in my life so I don't understand how they could raise any issue ... of course 'it's insurance' so I fully appreciate that anything can happen in the attempt to wriggle out of responsibility.
In the finale it's always the honest that pay so I just continue to rely on the financial support of my customers :)
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So had I, but they did.
Ask them if its OK to have your ncb on both policies concurrently, please let me know if they each say yes, can pass them on around 50 new customers asap :-)
 
srichards said:
You can have multiple NCDs on multiple policies. I have had so for ages. What you have to declare is that you have use of another vehicle.
Click to expand...

How does that work? AFAIK the NCD applies to the driver, not the vehicle. Several companies offer a discount for multi-vehicle policies, but that's not the same thing as having a separate NCD for each.
 
Alot of people don't understand how the NCB Discount Protection actually works.

All it does is protect your discount.

So if you have 65% discount, you pay, say £2000 minus 65%.
If you then have a bump, your premium goes up.
So your insurance is now £3000.

However, you've got protected NCB, so you're now paying £3000 minus 65%, instead of £3000 minus 0% ;)
 
An interesting aside was the offer of the insurers to reduce the new premium from £900+ to £500+ if I abandoned the 'protected' part of the NCD ... of course I'm sure that was all in good faith :shake:
 
I worked in car insurance many years ago, so did 'get' why the price went up when I read Gramps first post, but insurance as a whole is just getting more and more expensive. As we all know, the uninsured and compensation culture have played their parts. What I find really annoying is that so called anti-discrimination laws will now also mean that lower risk categories will have their costs increased to match higher risk, where the difference between the two can be considered discrimination [male/female atm, but who knows where this one will go].... this will simply serve to increase the number of people that cannot afford to insure, so more uninsured, etc and so the snowball grows... :bonk:
 
Flash In The Pan said:
How does that work? AFAIK the NCD applies to the driver, not the vehicle. Several companies offer a discount for multi-vehicle policies, but that's not the same thing as having a separate NCD for each.
Click to expand...

I don't know if this answers anything, but I discovered that you can only use your NCB on one policy at a time. So if you have two cars you can only claim the discount on one with most insurers. Though if you ask them nicely they may offer a discount (can't remember who it was that we managed it with).
 
MartynK said:
It is pretty one sided, but you have to understand the way this works.

Your insurer doesn't ask you to lie or to be dishonest - that could make them party to attempted fraud - they just advise you not to admit liability. The theory is that you file a claim with your insurer and they pay, whether you were at fault or not - subject to any exclusions in the policy - but they also entitled to exercise subrogation which gives them the right to try and recover part or all of their loss from the other party. This is prejudiced if you have already admitted liability, particularly in front of witnesses.

The problem is that the other party has probably claimed against his/her own insurer too, and they will follow the same process. If the facts are clear, one of the insurers may agree to settle, but a lot of cases turn into claim and counter claim, and very few of them are worth the cost of litigation, so most are settled by negotiation. It's really turned into a bit of an accounting exercise, with insurers choosing the cheapest option for themselves, and that leaves a lot of us dissatisfied with the outcome.
Click to expand...

Yes your right I know, business wise, sure it makes good sense, however like many things 'overtaken' in our world, It just seems like the original need of insurance to take responsibility has now been manipulated and cajoled into a mire of unaccountability!


Uneducated_Rick said:
You do not have to accept the insurer's assessment - you are the policy owner and you can force litigation at your insurance company's expense. They work for you, not the other way around.

I went through this process for almost 2 years with my insurance company phoning me weekly wanting to take joint responsibility (doing this would cost me my excess and NCB, going to court and losing would have cost me the same, court and winning would have cost me nothing). 1 week before due in court the other party finally accepted liability.
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Good to hear. ... good advice. :thumbs:
 
rssmrry said:
I don't know if this answers anything, but I discovered that you can only use your NCB on one policy at a time. So if you have two cars you can only claim the discount on one with most insurers. Though if you ask them nicely they may offer a discount (can't remember who it was that we managed it with).
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I've just googled this and several insurance companies come up with the same answer. You can not use the same NCB on two vehicles but you can earn seperate NCB's on seperate policies. For instance I have 15 yrs NCB on my car, if I were to insure another car as well, after a years claim free motoring I would have 1 yrs NCB on that 2nd vehicle and so on.
 
chameleon said:
It has annoyed me for ages, the meaningless of no claims bonuses. Sure you have 70% or so but if they bump up the premium regardless, you still end up paying more.
Click to expand...
:plusone:

Yep, good old rip-off Britain.
 
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