Talk to me about Voigtlander Bessas

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Carl Hall

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I’m looking to get a decent 35mm rangefinder, and am leaning towards a Voigtlander Bessa of some sort. Ideally, I’d like an R3A as it’s got the frame lines for the focal lengths I’d use more, and it’s aperture priority so it’s quicker to use etc. Trouble is, I can’t find an R2M/R2A/R3M/R3A for sale anywhere in the UK (or Europe, actually). There are some exc++ cameras on eBay in Japan, but they’re quite spendy and you get all the fun of paying for it again when it arrives in the UK.

I spent a few hours trying to convince myself that what I actually needed was a Leica M3 as it’s an investment… But then I had a nap and came to my senses (one day though!). I’ve now started looking at the Bessa R, which has a meter but is fully manual. It’s also screw mount rather than M mount, but I’m thinking if I get a screw to M mount adaptor then I’ve effectively got twice as many lenses that I can use.

Any Bessa aficionados able to help with the pros and cons of each model? What to avoid or watch out for? Which model is their favourite? There’s a lot of info online that I’ve already read, but it would be good to hear from the good ol’ Fusty and Crusty group :)
 
Is there any other quality range finder with aperture priority that has the frame lines for the focal length you use most? The minolta hi-matic is totally AP and you can't mess with it. Fixed focal length of 50mm and widest aperture of F1.7. The yashica electro is basically AP with the same widest aperture and a fixed focal length of 40mm.
 
Ok, I've had an R3a which I loved and foolishly sold and now have an R4a which I love very nearly as much. The R is also excellent and, as you say, having the adaptor gives you much more choice.
The Voigtlander lenses are at worst very, verygood and at best as good as Leica (in my opinion) especially for the price.
The R can suffer with a sticky back but this is easily fixed and they are more available in the UK then the other models. The R3/R4 and the R are all well built and reliable, get one :D
Cameraquest.com has loads of reviews and info, its a bit of a messy sitebut useful.
 
If you can't find one via normal channels then sign up to https://www.the-saleroom.com You can register to bid at loads of different auctions across the country. Special Auction Services in Newbury seem to sell a lot of camera equipment.
 
srichards said:
The minolta hi-matic is totally AP and you can't mess with it. Fixed focal length of 50mm and widest aperture of F1.7. The yashica electro is basically AP with the same widest aperture and a fixed focal length of 40mm.
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Those are pretty old cameras and probably past the age of being reliable.

Memory tells me that the Bessa R had a rather nasty plastic film door. For an R2, R3 or R4 you have to be patient and alert.
 
droj said:
Those are pretty old cameras and probably past the age of being reliable.

Memory tells me that the Bessa R had a rather nasty plastic film door. For an R2, R3 or R4 you have to be patient and alert.
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You’re right Roj they are all getting on a bit and there’s no denying that at some time they will no doubt become unreliable but in my experience all are still very reliable. Over the past few years I’ve owned an R, an L, an R3A and an R4A and have had no problems with any of them. I still have the L with the 25mm Snapshot lens which the same “nasty plastic” film door as the R and yes while it’s plastic other than aesthetics it serves perfectly adequately to keep out the light and it keeps the weight down.

Carl, if you’re looking for the interchangeable rangefinder experience then you can’t go far wrong with the Bessa R, if you want a little help with your exposure go for the R3A or if you lean towards the wider lens choice go for the R4A. As long as you get on with the rangefinder type camera the Bessas are hard to be beat for value and functionality.

Oh and they also make you more attractive to the opposite sex :thumbs:
 
srichards said:
Is there any other quality range finder with aperture priority that has the frame lines for the focal length you use most? The minolta hi-matic is totally AP and you can't mess with it. Fixed focal length of 50mm and widest aperture of F1.7. The yashica electro is basically AP with the same widest aperture and a fixed focal length of 40mm.
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I currently have an Electro 35 GSN which I think is great and I love using. I think the viewfinder is a bit dim though, which I didn't even realise until I compared it to a Voigtlander at the F&C Peaks meet!

Andysnap said:
Ok, I've had an R3a which I loved and foolishly sold and now have an R4a which I love very nearly as much. The R is also excellent and, as you say, having the adaptor gives you much more choice.
The Voigtlander lenses are at worst very, verygood and at best as good as Leica (in my opinion) especially for the price.
The R can suffer with a sticky back but this is easily fixed and they are more available in the UK then the other models. The R3/R4 and the R are all well built and reliable, get one :D
Cameraquest.com has loads of reviews and info, its a bit of a messy sitebut useful.
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The Cameraquest site is really good, especially the tables that compare the various M and screw models. Was it the R4A or R3A that you had at the Cornwall meet, Andy? I remember thinking it was a brilliant camera. As for lenses, I like the sound of the Nokton 40mm f1.4, but any fast-ish lens around the 40-50mm length would do me fine I think.

droj said:
For an R2, R3 or R4 you have to be patient and alert.
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Unfortunately I am neither patient or alert :lol: I've got a list of about 20 websites that sell cameras, and I've been going through them almost daily lately to see if one pops up. I think if I want an R3A then I'll just have to bide my time and wait for one to come up, as you say.

RaglanSurf said:
You’re right Roj they are all getting on a bit and there’s no denying that at some time they will no doubt become unreliable but in my experience all are still very reliable. Over the past few years I’ve owned an R, an L, an R3A and an R4A and have had no problems with any of them. I still have the L with the 25mm Snapshot lens which the same “nasty plastic” film door as the R and yes while it’s plastic other than aesthetics it serves perfectly adequately to keep out the light and it keeps the weight down.

Carl, if you’re looking for the interchangeable rangefinder experience then you can’t go far wrong with the Bessa R, if you want a little help with your exposure go for the R3A or if you lean towards the wider lens choice go for the R4A. As long as you get on with the rangefinder type camera the Bessas are hard to be beat for value and functionality.

Oh and they also make you more attractive to the opposite sex (y)
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What's the meter like on the R, Nick? From what I've read it's TTL with 3 leds? I'm happy to fiddle with the shutter speed dial to get the right exposure based on an in camera meter, I just don't want to spend ages faffing with a hand held lightmeter when I'm walking around on holiday.

The only real experience I have of a rangefinder is from my Electro 35, and I found it really easy to use and focus etc. A rangefinder with a brighter viewfinder can only be better!
 
Carl Hall said:
.I’ve now started looking at the Bessa R, which has a meter but is fully manual. It’s also screw mount rather than M mount, but I’m thinking if I get a screw to M mount adaptor then I’ve effectively got twice as many lenses that I can use.
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You can use simple adapters to mount screw lenses on an M mount camera, but not M lenses on a screwmount camera. The Bessa R can only use screwmount lenses.
 
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I briefly had the Bessa R. The viewfinder is lovely and bright with a sharply defined/ easy to see rangefinder patch. The meter is a handy addition too. I ended up buying a Leica M2 after handling one in a local camera shop. For me the smoothness of operation and feel of it was the deciding factor. I just enjoyed using it more. It's worth it for me as the M2 has encouraged me to shoot more film and I've been pleasantly surprised at my success to failure ratio when developing films. When I have looked around the Bessa R2's and above seem to be similarly priced to the more affordable Leica's such as the M2.
 
Retune said:
You can use simple adapters to mount screw lenses on an M mount camera, but not M lenses on a screwmount camera. The Bessa R can only user screwmount lenses.
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Ahh yes, I had it the wrong way round, thanks! Spent too much time looking at cameras the last few days so my mind's turned to mush :lol:
 
It was the R4a I had in Cornwall, Nick's old one actually. I had the Nokton 40mm f1.4 when I had the R3a and it is a stunning lens.
 
How about a Canon P? Should be under half the price of an M2, may be more readily available in Europe than a Bessa, and it's something of a classic. Screwmount again, though. Leica's own screwmount cameras are beautifully made, relatively cheap and surprisingly pocketable, though a bit quirky if you're used to modern cameras!
 
mdjchat said:
I briefly had the Bessa R. The viewfinder is lovely and bright with a sharply defined/ easy to see rangefinder patch. The meter is a handy addition too. I ended up buying a Leica M2 after handling one in a local camera shop. For me the smoothness of operation and feel of it was the deciding factor. I just enjoyed using it more. It's worth it for me as the M2 has encouraged me to shoot more film and I've been pleasantly surprised at my success to failure ratio when developing films. When I have looked around the Bessa R2's and above seem to be similarly priced to the more affordable Leica's such as the M2.
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I haven't spent a lot of time looking at the different Leica models so I don't really know much about the differences, but a quick eBay search shows sold prices for an M2 of around £500-550 usually. I'll have a read up tonight and see what they're all about. They're "only" £100 or so more than an R3A body according to sold prices on eBay, it's just weather not I can live without a meter

Retune said:
How about a Canon P? Should be under half the price of an M2, may be more readily available in Europe than a Bessa, and it's something of a classic. Screwmount again, though. Leica's own screwmount cameras are beautifully made, relatively cheap and surprisingly pocketable, though a bit quirky if you're used to modern cameras!
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I hadn't considered the Canon, but I'll have a look at them too!
 
I've learnt to cope using a Sekonic L308s to take mostly incident light readings. It doesn't take much getting used to and I've been getting better exposures as it is a more accurate way of metering.

My M2 cost me £600 body only and had previously been serviced (from that well known auction site). There are occasionally better deals to be had.

The Canon P has a good reputation. The rangefinder patch won't match up to the Leica or Voigtlander though. I have a Canon 7 rangefinder (the successor to the P) and it is a nice camera. The build quality is almost up there with Leica but the RF patch isn't as sharply defined.
 
The meter is pretty good on the R3A and R4A, just what you’d expect, even Andy manages to get correctly exposed shots so it must be pretty much foolproof.
 
RaglanSurf said:
The meter is pretty good on the R3A and R4A, just what you’d expect, even Andy manages to get correctly exposed shots so it must be pretty much foolproof.
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Not every time to be fair...... Nothings that good.:D
 
I bought a r3a of a certain someone on here:whistle::cool: I've not long sold it to ffordes might be worth phoning to see if its yet to appear, I sold it with a lovely little voigt 40mm as well. only sold as I just prefer using an slr or my little xa but the glass on the r3a was amazing
 
niko said:
I bought a r3a of a certain someone on here:whistle::cool: I've not long sold it to ffordes might be worth phoning to see if its yet to appear, I sold it with a lovely little voigt 40mm as well. only sold as I just prefer using an slr or my little xa but the glass on the r3a was amazing
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Oh cool! How long ago did you sell it to them? I've just rang them and the chap said that they don't think they've got one, but he's going to have a look at their recent items and see if it's just not been listed yet
 
unsure when exactly but not that long again (or maybe I am just going senile :confused:) .
will try to find the details and let you know if I do
 
ChrisR said:
@Strappy has (or had) one and he was pretty happy with it, IIRC.
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I still have it and I think it's a great camera. As mentioned, the rangefinder patch isn't the clearest but you soon get used to it.

The main thing to look for on the P is the state of the shutter blinds. It uses a pair of extremely thin steel shutter blades and nearly every example has some creasing in them. Mine has very light marks and it has no impact on the operation of the shutter but I have heard of more severely damaged examples causing the shutter to drag. There is no fix that I'm aware of other than replacement and, of course, there are no old stock parts for a camera produced in the 1950s. Not sure what the cause is, I've heard that collapsible Leica 50mm lenses can press on it and that it's "just one of those things" but it's worth checking.

The other issue is the rangefinder going out of alignment. For whatever reason it seems to happen regularly but it's an easy fix, I've done it while standing in a field before with no tools although that was a minor correction to the vertical alignment. Horizontal adjustment needs more work and a very small screwdriver but it seems to be the more constant of the two adjustments, the vertical is the one that more often needs a nudge.

There's no meter, you might find an accessory meter that slips into the cold shoe on ebay. Those are selenium meters and many are dead, you also need a plastic shroud that slips over the sensor for certain lighting conditions and that's a small plastic slip which is easily lost (judging from the majority of meters I've seen for sale without it). Personally I think it spoils the look of the camera so I'd take a reading using an app or my Weston meter and adjust according to the light. I bought the camera to encourage myself to learn more about exposure and it certainly does that!

What else ... the viewfinder is excellent and clear but only has lines for 35mm, 50mm and 100mm lenses. There are no selectable lines, all three are presented in one view. Those lines are printed with some sort of silvery finish so the "zoomed in" lines aren't too intrusive when you're trying to use the outer lines, although that finish might be faded.

Finally, when you first screw in a lens it looks odd because the lens doesn't line up vertically, the mid-point is offset towards the viewfinder. It's disconcerting, you think you've screwed the lens in too far but it's intentional - it makes it easier to check the focus distance and aperture on the lens when an accessory finder is in the cold shoe. :)
 
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