Talk Photography Forum - a discussion

Blimey, quite possibly one of the busiest threads Ive ever started....lol

Not sure where to start really.

Whilst it may initially appear that I was bemoaning the lack of comments following my tree frog image, I can whole heartedly assure you it was not an attnetion seeking motive - if you knew me , you would know that is the last thing I want. I was more bringing attention to the lack of actual input to pic posts on here.

Theres a lot of very interesting posts on this thread, and I take them all on board, as , by the sound of things, do the management.

I also had maybe not teken into consideration that my tog interests are obvs in the minority of the avaerage TpER.....

I do understand the whole feedback thing, and a like IS an easy thing to show. Personally, I just like to know WHAT you liked about the shot.

I shoot for myself only, I get the pleasure from being in the situation that my shot offers, and I share on here to let others see whats possible to the average joe.

The frog shot for example....how many people can get that close to an exotic tropical species ? Not easily at least, and thats why I pay to do photo days like that , to get shots I couldnt otherwise.

Nobody questioned how I got that clear a shot of a Red eye tree frog, they just liked it.....

Probably a million things I could say, but thanks to all that have replied, and its all food for thought for myself if not others.
 
droj said:
I'd assumed that Daniel had fallen ill, or got bored and wandered off. He always seemed quite gentlemanly to me, and did have something to bring ...
Click to expand...

:agree:

That's too bad, I for one benefited from his advice and freely given help, which as we're all saying is the kinda point of the forum:(

GC
 
Interesting how the thread has gone since I last dropped by.

Projects take a lot of time and intent. I've done one so far, documenting one of the bands I play with, and haven't really felt inclined to do another yet because there's no particular subject that seems to be stimulating a long term interest.

As for Pookeyhead, in the end I could only bear to use the forum with him on ignore. Yes, he made people think, but often it seemed intentionally rude, destructive and antigonistic instead of actually trying to help them grow - his comments made me decide at one stage that if he represented art then I wanted nothing to do with it. He came over as a narcissist who could never be wrong or do wrong and whose opinion was the final word in any area he discussed. It was a relief when I realised he'd left.
 
I've been thinking about the like button and about people posting "Nice shot" and the like... and to be honest I've been guilty of both but in my defence I sometimes have nothing to say in the way of critique but may genuinely think it's a good picture and in instances like that what else is there to do other than to like the post or post the inane and annoying "Nice shot" comment...

I apologise for doing these things in the past and for doing so in the future :D
 
a long long time ago ,we had very little in the way of displaying out images ,flickr was the go to community and the posh folks used 500pixels , faceberk was still more for teens chatting s*** than for anything else . wildlife photographers 10 + years ago were a tight knit bunch and you would get comments even if you posted a sparrow on a twig .

these days faceberk seems to have taken over there seems to be a group on there for everything and everywhere its now getting to the point of media overload . even on here we have groups for cameras ,lenses , wildlife ,birds ,wild birds macro it is literally getting to the point of is it worth it .

again on the subject of wildlife with the advent of the cheap tamron /sigma superzoom everyone and his wife is suddenly a expert wildlife photographer ,you know what I mean all the gear and no idea .

the answer ,well the best one I can think of is sell up buy some knitting needles and chill out
 
ancient_mariner said:
As for Pookeyhead, in the end I could only bear to use the forum with him on ignore. Yes, he made people think, but often it seemed intentionally rude, destructive and antigonistic instead of actually trying to help them grow - his comments made me decide at one stage that if he represented art then I wanted nothing to do with it. He came over as a narcissist who could never be wrong or do wrong and whose opinion was the final word in any area he discussed. It was a relief when I realised he'd left.
Click to expand...


Dang! That's a blast from the past, had forgotten about him but seeing the name brings it back. I remember Myself, him and Gary Coyle going at it for a bit, 3 massive egos who couldn't back down. Was very sad to hear Gary passed a while back :/
 
Mr Badger said:
I know, instead of saying 'nice shot', perhaps we could have a 'You must have a really good camera' button? ;-)
Click to expand...

I still get this on FB when I up some family images - there's always that one "Nice snap! you must have a nice camera" - I have a stuffed kitten I punch each time it happens :D
 
I have nice camera, in fact I have a two nice cameras, what I don't have is the eye for a good image. My next door neighbour, now sadly deceased, used to use a tiny Coolpix for her shots and they were always better than mine unless the shot required a degree of fancy gear. Having a nice camera however does put a bit of pressure on especially when people approach you with "You have all the gear, will you do my wedding photographs?". It is always with a certain amount of regret I have to decline and advise them very strongly to get a professional in to do the job as they take it personally, as if their wedding was not important to me (which it probably isn't, but they don't know that).
 
holty said:
i think some people are very insecure if they need others to give them praise for there shots
most people on here don't even put there own pic as there avatar cause the want to stay anonymous
they also restrict who can see there profile as well - more mystery
i think thats so they can be keyboard warriors and gob off and feel safe
but i can assure you having worked with the military for a few years its very easy to get your personal
details and registered address no problem if you know how :))
i wonder why there is not a dislike button ?
Click to expand...
Holty if I’ve ever upset you in any way I apologise :LOL:
 
Nod said:
Dave, surely when people have nothing to add to your (almost always accurate, helpful and insightful) C&C, a "Like" or a :plus1: shows that they agree with what you have to say and have nothing further to add?
Click to expand...

Being a comment from an old (as in well established on TP) member my first instinct here was he's taking the P as there appears to be a compliment in there lol :D

I find the best way to give & receive crit is via a conversation, any comment from anyone isn't a 'rule' of how something should be done but an opinion of how, so in my normal world we'd chat about why I think what I do and vice versa; crit on a forum like this doesn't usually work that way without one or both parties feeling aggrieved, which is probably mostly down to how difficult it can be to express an opinion in type and have the reader interpret accurately what you're saying

Its tricky

Dave
 
I try not to extract too much urine OOOOF! ( :P: )

I think you're spot on about the difficulties of expressing an opinion in type rather than face to face.

One reason I don't offer that much C&C is that I don't particularly like looking at photographs on a screen; prints being by far my preferred medium for viewing (and even more, showing) and the bigger the better at that! One of my pet (photographic) hates is being shown photos on a 'phone screen, usually fairly crap photos, completely unorganised and shown for 1/2 a second before the shower starts looking for another "masterpiece" buried among several hundred shots of little Catherine on the beach.
 
Hertsman said:
I felt very proud when one of my pics was promoted to an "article" and was on the front page of TP
Click to expand...
I bumped it to the front page I thought that it added a nice splash of colour there, and there was very little little wrong with the actual image itself (y)

Hertsman said:
Nobody questioned how I got that clear a shot of a Red eye tree frog,
Click to expand...
Just remember in what section it was posted in. TBH There is little doubt how it was achieved.
Plus you don't find many Tree frogs wandering down Tring high street.

Hertsman said:
Ive done the TP52 for a years now, but gave up halfway thru this year as I felt it had become really tit for tat when it came to getting comments on your posts - now, I can, to a fair extent understand this, but it spoilt ,my enjoyment of the 52 so I stopped.
Click to expand...
The 52, I agree has evolved over the years, its now more a personal challenge within a community that offers encouragement,
rather than as it started a place to post variations on a weekly theme for critique.
As per the guidelines, ( there are no rules) please try and reciprocate a comment.
This is most valuable when there are a 100+ participants, no one can comment on all the posts,
but at least that way, everyone will get some form of encouragement, even if its just the afore mentioned "Like"
Hertsman said:
Four separate threads gave me about 6 comments...not great feedback you would say ?
Click to expand...
And now the rub, don't take this the wrong way, BUT the captive forum is not as active as it used to be, and as above people will reciprocate with a like or maybe a comment,
But they have long memories, think back on all the help and comments you have received over the years, and exactly how many times you have returned to that thread to say
"thanks for dropping by" or "I appreciate the help etc".
Not many ...

I notice it around other forums too, people that don't return to their threads, find the comments / help diminishing, over a period of time.
A great man once said "I should be the last person to comment on my thread" A wise piece of advice I think.
 
Last edited:
Cobra said:
A great man once said "I should be the last person to comment on my thread" A wise piece of advice I think.
Click to expand...

Unless the last comment made by someone has absolutely nothing to do with the picture, just a rambling about something personal to them,
in that case I ignore it
 
Gremlin said:
Unless the last comment made by someone has absolutely nothing to do with the picture, just a rambling about something personal to them,
in that case I ignore it
Click to expand...
Well there is that of course ;)
 
TP, for me, is at its best for the owners threads. I appreciate that that was never the intention, but if I have a question about a camera/lens it's usually possible to get a trustworthy answer within a few hours from an actual owner/user. That's invaluable and not something easily got on the likes of Instagram etc.

In terms of critique, the Business section is wonderfully brutal/honest (in a good way) if you ask for advice on your website, photos etc, and also another fantastic area for advice and support from people in the same industry.

There is an immense amount of depth to TP without necessarily going near the actual photo forums. I'll only usually dip into the photos to see how people got on at the same event as me (i.e. Goodwood Festival of Speed). I literally have nothing to offer other than a 'like' for many photos, but will happily make the effort to open the thread and 'like' it if something catches my eye on the front page.
 
@Cobra Thanks for your input...

A lot of what you say makes sense, and I hope I dont across as bitter because Im not, just a tad disappointed.

Your are correct in saying the captive fora is quiet, and I think I could prb name the top 5 posters....

If anything, I just hope this thread has made others, including myself, think a lot more about how TP can be made more enjoyable fro us all.

The having that last comment is prob a very good idea tbh....

ATB,Mark
 
TheBigYin said:
Sadly, it would appear so, yes.



not "just" landscapes - he pretty much used to "bang on" about any image that was taken as "eye candy" as opposed to something with a deeper, more reasoned or considered viewpoint and with "something to say".

Damn I miss his input, but I can see why he got sick of railing at the philistines.
Click to expand...

I wondered if Pookeyhead left because he had got all the material he needed for a dissertation/thesis. :D

https://transitionexhibition.com/practitioners/david-gregory/
 
ancient_mariner said:
As for Pookeyhead, in the end I could only bear to use the forum with him on ignore. Yes, he made people think, but often it seemed intentionally rude, destructive and antigonistic instead of actually trying to help them grow - his comments made me decide at one stage that if he represented art then I wanted nothing to do with it.
Click to expand...

And art is eternally grateful.


Still here. I just read the forums now for any news, tech stuff etc. Can't be arsed giving crit... most who ask for it, don't want it - they want congratulating.


Reply if you want, but as you've probably noticed... not posted in here for 2 years... I can happily live without it... so I won't be replying.
 
Pookeyhead said:
And art is eternally grateful.


Still here. I just read the forums now for any news, tech stuff etc. Can't be arsed giving crit... most who ask for it, don't want it - they want congratulating.


Reply if you want, but as you've probably noticed... not posted in here for 2 years... I can happily live without it... so I won't be replying.
Click to expand...


Every forum needs it's characters IMO, can't please everyone. Many on here despise seeing me enter a thread I'm sure, but that's on them, not I
 
We often get threads on here with 'why's my picture not getting attention' type comments and bemoaning the forum, but it takes everyone to participate.
Personally I now dip in and out because of work etc, but then it's mostly new posts. If it pops up on the first couple of pages and it's interesting I'll comment and try to be constructive about what I like and don't like. But I just don't get time to trawl through every sub forum for images.
 
Pookeyhead said:
And art is eternally grateful.


Still here. I just read the forums now for any news, tech stuff etc. Can't be arsed giving crit... most who ask for it, don't want it - they want congratulating.


Reply if you want, but as you've probably noticed... not posted in here for 2 years... I can happily live without it... so I won't be replying.
Click to expand...

I Don't need a reply mate, just glad you're still around (in the greater sense, not just around on TP)
 
:plus1:
 
Pookeyhead said:
Reply if you want, but as you've probably noticed... not posted in here for 2 years... I can happily live without it... so I won't be replying.
Click to expand...

I wish you no ill, but I'm not sad about that.
 
From a newcomer...

If someone posts a shot(s) and asks for critique, then they should be open to everything that comes their way. Some of it will be advice, some of it will be comments such as 'I like that' or 'I don't', and some of it will be useless slagging off.

I've found myself posting things like: "I like that, but I can't give you technical advice." Or if it's a series of shots, I post that X and Y are my favourites, but not give anything more than that. Partly because I think 'well who I am to criticise you?' and partly because I don't have the expertise to offer anything more valuable.

In terms of actual critique, often it's very easy to say you don't like something, but it's very difficult to say how to improve it. Unless it's something obvious like missed focus.So I tend not to comment on the technical aspects of a shot, because I'm still very low down on the ladder in terms of my own knowledge. But I've noticed some people have very strong views and will vocalise them, and then when I look at their own shots, I'm underwhelmed by them and think 'who are they to criticise the OP?'

So it's hard to know who to listen to and who not to. There's a mix of professionals and amateurs, there's a wide range of interests and specialisms and there are many people that are old hands at how to behave on a forum, versus those that get offended by every little bit of leg-pulling. Giving critique is a hard enough thing to do if you're in a teacher/student relationship, let alone from a peer-to-peer or peer-to-unkown.

What I've noticed though, is that very few professionals seek critique as such, whereas a lot of newcomers do. And this probably speaks volumes about the psychology about why people post their images. For those of us that aren't professionals, we get very little real-world experience of criticism in the same way that a professional might get if someone's paid hundreds/thousands of pounds for some commissioned work. For the record, I work in an ad agency, and we commisson photographers a lot. I'd be far happier to critique their work (and they're the professional) than I would an amateur, because we're (or our clients are) paying to get a particular result. not only that, clearly I know what the result should be so it's easy for me to say whether or not we've achieved it.

When you're asked to pass comment on someone's photo - especially out of context - it's hard because they may have achieved everything they set out to achieve.

Having said that, on a related note, one of the best creatives I ever worked with would create ads and then trawl them around the creative department and ask everyone not whether they liked or not, but what was wrong with it. Invariably they'd make changes and end up with a better advert. So there's some onus on the OP to actually be willing (and able) to receive criticism.

I posted more images when I first joined than I have of late, and that's not because I think I've mastered the art of photography, but for the most part that I've realised if I'm genuinely happy with an image, it really doesn't matter whether anyone else likes it. That said, I did post some images a while back and sought advice, which I got and duly followed. Those same people thought the results were better, but I preferred the originals. That's where critique can be very subjective.

I still think I've benefitted from every time I've asked for advice on settings, on WTF am I doing wrong, or on equipment choices, so I value the like button for those times when I've asked for advice, someone's given it and I want to thank them.

What I am confused about though is those people that ask for critique, but have the 'edit my images' option set to No.



I hadn't seen the tree frog shot/post (but I've just looked now). If I was going to comment on that thread (which wasn't marked as a critique thread), I'd have probably just said 'That's amazing.'

But some of the things you said about how difficult it is to even see one let alone take a picture of one, I wouldn't have known unless it was overtly stated on the original post. So I might have just thought - 'that's amazing' rather than 'that's an amazing achievement.'

Genuine question... when you posted that picture (without any accompanying text) what were you hoping for?
 
Last edited:
Also 'time'.

Thinking about that post, trying to make it cohesive rather than a random, rambling string of consciousness. Re-reading it to see if it's offensive, re-re-reading it to correct my typos etc etc took me the best part of half an hour during some down-time at work. I normally don't have that luxury, so will not make long posts because they take up too much time.
 
Last edited:
Kell said:
If I was going to comment on that thread (which wasn't marked as a critique thread)
Click to expand...
As its says at the top of the photo sharing forums
Photo Genres - Sharing & Critique.
It's generally accepted that all image threads are critique threads except the "Photo's for pleasure" or the ones marked as communal threads / feel free to add yours etc .
These are generally "I'll show you mine, if you show me yours"


Kell said:
What I am confused about though is those people that ask for critique, but have the 'edit my images' option set to No.
Click to expand...
A lot of that stems from some dodgy edits in the past, you can "help" without actually altering the image, though.
 
Only just seen that one of the worst editors (IMO) is "no longer with the forum" so will change my preference back.
 
ukaskew said:
TP, for me, is at its best for the owners threads. I appreciate that that was never the intention, but if I have a question about a camera/lens it's usually possible to get a trustworthy answer within a few hours from an actual owner/user. That's invaluable and not something easily got on the likes of Instagram etc.
Click to expand...

I am in two minds about the owners threads. For the reason you quote, I totally understand and agree with. I think that the biggest problem with those threads are the pictures posted on them rather than elsewhere - it looks more like an attempt at justification for the purchase of the camera. Maybe they should not have pictures posted in them (unless it is to illustrate an issue that needs an answer).
 
Bythesea said:
I am in two minds about the owners threads. For the reason you quote, I totally understand and agree with. I think that the biggest problem with those threads are the pictures posted on them rather than elsewhere - it looks more like an attempt at justification for the purchase of the camera. Maybe they should not have pictures posted in them (unless it is to illustrate an issue that needs an answer).
Click to expand...


Pretty shallow view on it tbh, people enjoy posting images in those threads to show what they've been up to with whatever make or model that specific thread is dedicated to. By your logic, people only post to the likes of Flickr to justify the purchase of their equipment. Is the reason to buy gear in the first place not to go use it and then share? How can you even jump to this conclusion :thinking:
 
Kell said:
But some of the things you said about how difficult it is to even see one let alone take a picture of one, I wouldn't have known unless it was overtly stated on the original post. So I might have just thought - 'that's amazing' rather than 'that's an amazing achievement.'
Click to expand...

The picture was originally posted in the captive/domestic/plant section, so yes whilst seeing one in the wild would be rare
this I believe would be a paid for workshop where they set things up to a degree, that said living creatures don't a;ways
do things we want them to
 
Cagey75 said:
How can you even jump to this conclusion :thinking:
Click to expand...
Quite easily. I see no problem with sharing pictures, but they are posted on groups where the only people likely to see them are people who use the same equipment. If the pictures are worth sharing then the make of equipment is unimportant, as surely the image is the important thing, not what was used to capture it.
 
Bythesea said:
as surely the image is the important thing, not what was used to capture it.
Click to expand...

and I go further and say nor is the exif important, if someone wants to know they only have to ask
We all know light etc changes by the minute so one persons setting may not create the same result
for someone else
If I like an image I will say os
 
Bythesea said:
Quite easily. I see no problem with sharing pictures, but they are posted on groups where the only people likely to see them are people who use the same equipment. If the pictures are worth sharing then the make of equipment is unimportant, as surely the image is the important thing, not what was used to capture it.
Click to expand...
Where ever you post a picture only a handful of people are going to look at it, so they might as well be the people with whom you have something in common. For me at least it's not about "an attempt at justification for the purchase of the camera", in fact one of the owners thread in which I post represents 4 or 5 different bodies from one manufacturer, it's about giving something back and keeping a vibrant community going.
 
Pookeyhead said:
And art is eternally grateful.


Still here. I just read the forums now for any news, tech stuff etc. Can't be arsed giving crit... most who ask for it, don't want it - they want congratulating.


Reply if you want, but as you've probably noticed... not posted in here for 2 years... I can happily live without it... so I won't be replying.
Click to expand...
Hello trouble ;) good to see you are still around :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top