Talk Photography Forum - a discussion

TheBigYin said:
so we could see who was most likeable (my colleague @Cobra currently tops that chart... I'll not comment further on the likeability metric)
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Takes a bow :D

But seriously, most of those come from running the "52" likes from dozens of people when the theme is announced each week, and commenting on the images posted, ( and reciprocated)
What I am trying to say here, you get out what you put in.

People comment on your images, you respond, your'll get a like ( possibly) If you comment on peoples images, and say "thanks" for the response, they will comment on your images again.
If you ignore the comments, or dummy spit when given help / advice then people are not going to respond again.

Some Forums are more prolific than others, the Captive section used to be one of the most popular forums, sadly not so much these days.
A lot of the regulars from there have moved on to other forums, and or post on "other media"

The bird section is very popular these days.
But it also appears that the "talk sections" OoF etc are the most popular these days, people preferring to talk about it, rather than get out and do it.
Or indeed are more interested in current affairs, preferring to post in those sections and never post an image.
(Maybe they are "like hunting" from their circle of friend, seeking approval?)

This is a sad part, I get PM's from time to time, from people that have been members for a couple or so plus years, with a healthy post count ( 4 figures) asking how do I post an image!

So, a couple of things I've noticed over the years, as above, you "get out" what you put in,
and more recently just like the song,
Video killed the radio star .... "like button" has killed the art of conversation.
 
IIRC, your "friend" hacked the system and gave himself loads of likes and other extras! :D

I have to say that when I've posted shots for C&C (rather than pretty much pure record shots on the rare occasion I've posted any birds [usually on feeders in the garden...[) and have got 100+ views but 0 comments, I've consoled myself with the thought that the shot is perfect!
 
Nostromo said:
If your looking at a photo that is technically good, has a good composition and you can't see any flaws, then what is there to say other than "good shot" or "nice photo".
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Well you could critique it culturally. Why make the assumption that technique is all, as many seem to do? What's the picture's meaning, what's its function, what's its message, how does it fit into the history of photography? People are for ever banging on about cameras and lenses and other hardware as if owning & operating toys was the whole point of photography ...
 
Nostromo said:
If your looking at a photo that is technically good, has a good composition and you can't see any flaws, then what is there to say other than "good shot" or "nice photo". .
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This is an interesting point you make. TP is a superb site if you want to find the answer to some technical issue with your photography or equipment - but for anything else I think we are (almost) all lacking in the time and skills to go any deeper. I suppose it depends if you see photography as a craft or as art. If it’s a craft then you are more or less restricted to comments about its technical merits. If it’s an art then that is something different . Can you imagine people who gather to see a great work of art only commenting on the technical skill of the author instead of arguing about what the picture says, implies or challenges with ones ideas ? I can’t remember the last time I saw an image on TP where somebodies comment went beyond an appraisal of its technical merits.
 
TheBigYin said:
Maybe things HAVE become a little diluted by everything being open for critique, MAYBE we ALL - members and staff - should be making it clear that everything is OPEN FOR CRITIQUE, and maybe we ALL should be spending more time actually out there GIVING CRITIQUE - and, if people have dummy spits, then maybe the STAFF should be making it clear that everything is "fair game" unless in fluffy kittens...
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Personally, I think if you remove the word "maybe" from all of this and made it a banner across all the photo sharing forums this would set TP apart from all the other forums. Whether it would make a difference or not would soon be seen, but I'd feel more comfortable commenting if I thought the staff had our backs if dummies started hitting the floor. I suspect you'd lose members who would be taking their ball home, but I think the ones that stayed would be the ones to keep.

Either way - a great post Mark. And don't be too Sad Panda. Some of us are happy to crit even if we're ignored. I'm glad my behaviour doesn't (today!) depend on the reactions of others.
 
droj said:
Well you could critique it culturally. Why make the assumption that technique is all, as many seem to do? What's the picture's meaning, what's its function, what's its message, how does it fit into the history of photography? People are for ever banging on about cameras and lenses and other hardware as if owning & operating toys was the whole point of photography ...
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I agree with you, I maybe should have added about the other things you mentioned. A lot of the other stuff can be quite subjective. I can look at a landscape photo sometimes and just like it, it's just nice to look at.
 
Nod said:
IIRC, your "friend" hacked the system and gave himself loads of likes and other extras! :D
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I don't have a "key" to the back door, thats reserved for the upper echelons :p
 
It seems to me that the tit-for-tat thing is not just limited to the 52* but then we all have styles and preferences and so we are more likely to "follow" people whose work we generally like more than people who post photos that we just don't "get", however good they are. So may be it isn't tit-for-tat as much as groups within groups? Also there is a lot of stuff posted, I am far more likely to comment on threads by people who comment on my work, it's only fair and you get to build "relationships", you know what their level of skill and experience is and how they react to crit. I am far less likely to take crit from people who don't have a body of work on here, gallery, flickr link or whatever because how do I know where they are coming from photographically.

The thing I see is loads and loads of people who are more than happy to debate all kinds of things, this thread is a good example, but then never post a photo or crit a photo. It does sometimes feel like the balance has tipped more towards being like a pub where people would rather chew the fat than get out and take photos but TP is still a very good forum with loads experts who give up their time freely. Whatever happens that delicate balance should be preserved, it seems we have lost a few really good people along the way (Pookeyhead, @Michael Sewell ?) and I would hate to think that we might end up chucking babies out with bath water.



(* sidebar on the 52, I think it has just lost critical mass, like a party after most people have gone home, after all you rarely get to talk to everyone at a big party but you don't notice and it doesn't matter, towards the end there are just a few little groups left and it becomes more obvious that people are in separate groups)
 
jbw said:
I suppose it depends if you see photography as a craft or as art.
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If a photograph could be thought to exist without cultural connotations or qualities, as if in a vacuum, woudn't it be pointless?
 
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As an aside, remember Pookeyhead and how he used to bang on about landscapes?
 
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Nod said:
IIRC, your "friend" hacked the system and gave himself loads of likes and other extras! :D

I have to say that when I've posted shots for C&C (rather than pretty much pure record shots on the rare occasion I've posted any birds [usually on feeders in the garden...[) and have got 100+ views but 0 comments, I've consoled myself with the thought that the shot is perfect!
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I can't remember the last time I posted a shot looking for critique as I mostly don't care what others think. I mostly stopped caring when I posted a couple of dog pictures on Amateur Photographer and someone said that the DoF on the first was too thin and on the second too deep. I thought about this for about a millisecond and decided that the shots were exactly what I wanted them to be and my opinion was the one that mattered :D And it still is :D It's just opinion.

I do post pictures but mostly to show how a new lens behaves.
 
Hertsman said:
Four seperate threads gave me about 6 comments...not great feedback you would say ?

I felt very proud when one of my pics was promoted to an "article" and was on the front page of TP.....an image that so far has achieved the huge amount of 3 replys saying good shot ?

Im just not sure where TP is at these days...so many good pics and great togs and all we get is a "like"....

Is that all we can expect now a days ?

Disappointed of Tring,
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Keep at it :D
 
Personally,i stopped caring if other people don,t like what i like,my camera is to please me,that,s how i see it.:):banana::agree:
 
woof woof said:
Has he gone away?
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Sadly, it would appear so, yes.

droj said:
As an aside, remember Pookeyhead and how he used to bang on about landscapes?
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not "just" landscapes - he pretty much used to "bang on" about any image that was taken as "eye candy" as opposed to something with a deeper, more reasoned or considered viewpoint and with "something to say".

Damn I miss his input, but I can see why he got sick of railing at the philistines.
 
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Cobra said:
This is a sad part, I get PM's from time to time, from people that have been members for a couple or so plus years, with a healthy post count ( 4 figures) asking how do I post an image!
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likewise... another sad panda moment :(

Cobra said:
Video killed the radio star .... "like button" has killed the art of conversation.
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as I've said - the debate happens in the Staff Dungeon every now and then, and there are voices of dissent when it comes to the "like button"...
 
TheBigYin said:
Damn I miss his input, but I can see why he got sick of railing at the philistines.
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At times the railing could tend more towards preaching and the issuing of proclamations and did at times get rather tiresome, IMO, and his liberal use of the ignore button when anyone disagreed with him sometimes made threads rather disjointed reading :D Not that I'd want to see anyone leave though.
 
woof woof said:
At times the railing could tend more towards preaching and the issuing of proclamations and did at times get rather tiresome, IMO, and his liberal use of the ignore button when anyone disagreed with him sometimes made threads rather disjointed reading :D Not that I'd want to see anyone leave though.
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I'll be honest, I used to cut the guy a bit more slack than perhaps necessary (and, its probably fair to say, more than some other members of staff did), a) because I sort of come from the same viewpoint as he did, and b) because I knew he was fighting against massively superior numbers in a battle that he wasn't going to win - but if he made one person think a little more about the message their images carried, then, well - a win's a win!
 
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In my case a lot of my photos go unedited for ages after they are taken so nothing much to post on a regular basis.
Travel a lot these days and tend to put my favourites aside then edit them when I order up a photobook documenting the journeys.
 
TheBigYin said:
there are voices of dissent when it comes to the "like button"...
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I'd say that 'like' is fine as an approval for what someone's said (written!) without clogging up a thread, but altogether pointless for images, since it doesn't explain why the image was liked, and thus contributes nothing.
 
woof woof said:
At times the railing could tend more towards preaching and the issuing of proclamations and did at times get rather tiresome,
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I came to view it as a form of entertainment ... but there were certain validities behind some of it at least.
 
droj said:
I'd say that 'like' is fine as an approval for what someone's said (written!) without clogging up a thread, but altogether pointless for images, since it doesn't explain why the image was liked, and thus contributes nothing.
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as I said in my earlier post, i'd happily have them switched off in the photo sharing sections - or maybe replaced by a "nice shot" button (as that would save clogging a thread with another "contribution" that actually brings nothing to the table)...
 
TheBigYin said:
I'll be honest, I used to cut the guy a bit more slack than perhaps necessary (and, its probably fair to say, more than some other members of staff did), a) because I sort of come from the same viewpoint as he did, and b) because I knew he was fighting against massively superior numbers in a battle that he wasn't going to win - but if he made one person think a little more about the message their images carried, then, well - a win's a win!
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I was never offended or upset by any of his responses to me but I may have felt a tinge of worry that people might believe him... when an open questioning mind was maybe more appropriate.
 
With regards to the 52, I find it a great way of learning and getting feedback, especially when you try something "different". I do not think I have posted a picture this year which has not had something useful said about it.
 
Do YOU like the image you've uploaded?

That's sufficient in my book


I uploaded a self portrait image the other day specifically asking the "lighting peeps" for critique on the standard of lighting.

I've had a few nice comments and I thank them all for their input.

I expected to have more, especially from those who are quite combative when someone posts something they think is rubbish or incorrect. They're certainly not backwards in coming forward then.

I imagine it's down to point scoring, I don't know.


I used to enjoy a chat with Kodiak but after coming back from Cornwall I see he's banned/suspended.
This is a shame but I imagine there's a valid reason. Mods don't do this for nothing.


Just my twopennyworth
 
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droj said:
Oh - as with Pookey, I'd assumed that Daniel had fallen ill, or got bored and wandered off. He always seemed quite gentlemanly to me, and did have something to bring ...
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I always thought his
posts read like a poem
I don't know why he posted
as he did
but I liked it
it all added drama, IMO.
I hope he returns.
 
woof woof said:
I was never offended or upset by any of his responses
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Nor me not even when he called me a k'head :D
woof woof said:
but I may have felt a tinge of worry that people might believe him... when an open questioning mind was maybe more appropriate.
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He was a college lecture IIRC and to me, it seemed as though he thought he was still at work when posting here.
( To quote from Matilda "I'm right you're wrong, I'm big you're small and there is nothing you can do about it" )

GreenNinja67 said:
I used to enjoy a chat with Kodiak but after coming back from Cornwall I see he's banned/suspended.
This is a shame but I imagine there's a valid reason. Mods don't do this for nothing.
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Banned.
2 reasons, something that isn't worth dredging up again, the second, following that "episode" he didn't post for over a month, which is fine, but then he decided to "disruptively edit"
He removed all his images from TP which is a nono, as you can imagine, so many threads ( he was a prolific poster) made absolutely no sense whatsoever!
He was then banned to stop the possibility of anymore "mischief"
 
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Cobra said:
Banned.
2 reasons, something that isn't worth dredging up again, the second, following that "episode" he didn't post for over a month, which is fine, but then he decided to "disruptively edit"
He removed all his images from TP which is a nono, as you can imagine, so many threads ( he was a prolific poster) made absolutely no sense whatsoever!
He was then banned to stop the possibility of anymore "mischief"
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Hadn't realised. Oh well, I can take him off ignore now then. He is one that while I didn't have any particular problem with his posting, I used to get fed up with so many of the front page of new posts being his bird pictures. Pookeyhead on the other hand, I often would specifically look for what he was posting on.

Regarding posting images, I don't very much at all, and that is because I am mostly interested in photography as art, and don't see the point in posting images that I know will be misunderstood by most of the members here. Similarly, I don't want to look at pictures just because they are "nice" pictures. As a result I use the site more for information etc., and the like button is used to agree with posts. Perhaps there could be an "I agree" button alongside a "nice shot" button :)
 
Bythesea said:
Regarding posting images, I don't very much at all, and that is because I am mostly interested in photography as art, and don't see the point in posting images that I know will be misunderstood by most of the members here.
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there's often a little more "tolerance" of photography as an art-form in the Creative Photography section... (oh, and I kind of hate that name, partly because a hell of a lot of the stuff in there tends to be "me too" on creative techniques, but also because it kind of implies that the rest of the forum areas AREN'T creative (or are less so...)

But at least in there you can often post something, with a description of what you were intending to show, and not get called a pretentious t***twaffle (or other choice stuff :) )
 
I think the previous comment about people having a lack of time has a lot to do with a lack of comments, plus avoiding the banality of racking up a series of 'Lovely shot there' type replies. I don't tend to explore the threads of photos on the forum, as I lurk mostly in the film and conventional section, but I do pick up on the home page post lists and photos shown in the header. If I see something that catches my eye then I'll click on it and look.

As for critique, if the person has asked for some and I feel that I have spotted something and my comment might be useful and objective then I'll pass comment. If I like the shot then I'll hit the like button, if I have time and I think it's a really great shot then I'll say so as well as hitting the like button.

As for receiving critique, then fine if it's constructive and the person just hasn't missed the (sometimes subtle) point, but I'll be equally happy if I see some likes on there as it shows people have at least looked at my photo and taken a moment to show they liked it. I don't crave likes, but sometimes it's nice to have a bit of feedback and/or to know that someone has taken your comment or banter in the good spirit it was made.

As for critique, I try to keep any I give as unbiased and objective as possible, and I try not to let personal preference get in the way. I'm probably in the vast minority in my tastes, as I'm not keen on landscape photography these days and dislike portrait photography. Don't get me wrong, I'll take photos in both those categories if I see a nice opportunity, but I can't really get excited about them. However, I think it would be quite wrong of me to let my personal preferences and tastes to get in the way and for me to pass critique along the lines of a more politely worded version of 'Yet another over-processed clone of a done-to-death subject'. One person's meat is another person's reason to turn vegan; and I think it would be a dull world if we were all the same. :) So let's keep the like button but perhaps all try to give a little more of our time to pass constructive comment when its asked for.
 
TheBigYin said:
there's often a little more "tolerance" of photography as an art-form in the Creative Photography section... (oh, and I kind of hate that name, partly because a hell of a lot of the stuff in there tends to be "me too" on creative techniques, but also because it kind of implies that the rest of the forum areas AREN'T creative (or are less so...)

But at least in there you can often post something, with a description of what you were intending to show, and not get called a pretentious t***twaffle (or other choice stuff :) )
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I tend not to look in there very much as I did think the name was rather inaccurate :) The one forum I look at more than most others (and is one of the three I follow) is the Projects forum which I was very pleased to see set up (and one which I believe Pookey was very keen on seeing as well). That is the one place I intend posting images to when I get to the point I feel they are ready to be called a "project".
 
As a novice to photography and a newbie to the forum I'd just like to say that I've posted 3 or 4 pics (stating I'm new) asking for general critique. The folks that have been kind enough to respond have (I feel) realised I'm not looking for detailed technical advice (that in all likelihood would fly over my head for now), but have given me the generalised pointers I've been after; 'Try cropping it here', 'maybe not sharp enough', 'horizon is off a little', that sort of thing. Thankfully nobody said 'sell your gear you are obviously blind and lacking any discernible talent!' ........yet. lol

I've also received advice and pointers in the 'Talk' forums any time I've asked for it as well. Again, I've tried to be specific about what advice it is I'm after.

One photo I posted and I never got any critique; but looking back it was an 'I did this in editing, whatcha fink?' type of post. In all fairness it probably didn't merit a response......but, importantly, I still learnt something from that.

I've also commented on one or two photos myself, again stating I'm new to it all. All I've done is said what I personally liked about the pic. Oh, and I corrected the name of a bridge in one! lol I wouldn't know how to comment on light, exposure etc as I do not understand it 100% myself, so I don't. But, I can say 'I like the way the sun is reflected there' etc, which might not be the sort of critique the poster is looking for tbf. It might be though,and if they aint asking for specifics then I think a general 'I like it because....' is fair game. Not everybody will though.

Think what I'm trying to say is that I reckon if you try to be specific (not saying the OP wasn't btw, please don't read this as a criticism of the OP) about what you would like critiquing/advice on, then there is possibly more chance of people responding. If you aren't specific then folks that do possess technical knowledge might not respond as they are simply unsure what it is you want critiqued. Maybe? Dunno, but it makes sense to me though. lol
 
Hertsman said:
Guys, Ive been on here a number of years, and have laways enjoyed the fora as a whole.
Ive bought and sold a variety of gear from here with no issues at all - snd thats a good thing obvs.

But when it comes to image sharing is where I feel the TP community falls down.

Posting pics for crit is fairly fraught anyway if you are not confident in your ability to take some crit, but , for me ,I think something is missing. Im not convinced the LIKE button is good thing if Im honest.

Ive posted a fair few images on here over the years and taken the flak/praise and learnt from it, however....

Ive done the TP52 for a years now, but gave up halfway thru this year as I felt it had become really tit for tat when it came to getting comments on your posts - now, I can, to a fair extent understand this, but it spoilt ,my enjoyment of the 52 so I stopped.

Getting to the point, I recently attended a Macro Photo day and enjpyed it a lot. Subsequently, I posted a few individual threads in the respected forums...

Four seperate threads gave me about 6 comments...not great feedback you would say ?

I felt very proud when one of my pics was promoted to an "article" and was on the front page of TP.....an image that so far has achieved the huge amount of 3 replys saying good shot ?

Im just not sure where TP is at these days...so many good pics and great togs and all we get is a "like"....

Is that all we can expect now a days ?

Disappointed of Tring,
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Hey Mark @Hertsman ... You're suffering the post 52s blues, me too, I started a project and no one comments, that's difficult to get used to after 5 years of posting the weekly pic and getting feedback from 10, 20 or more different enthusiasts. I've just had a look at some of your recent work: Gecko, Chameleons x 2, Frog, Mice ... all good stuff but the mice shot is the standout one and the one with the 5 comments and 18 likes.
 
cj4now said:
I can say 'I like the way the sun is reflected there' etc, which might not be the sort of critique the poster is looking for tbf. It might be though,and if they aint asking for specifics then I think a general 'I like it because....' is fair game.
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that's spot on, and as long as you're making a reasoned judgement/pronouncement, then at worst they can say "yeah, thanks but that's not what I was looking for" which then opens up the conversation to allow people to find what they ARE looking for.
 
Hmmm, one thing that's come up a couple of times is the quiet nature of the projects section... maybe that's something that the staff could look into - it DOES seem that the only thing we "promote" onto the front page seems to be stuff with a big showy picture front and centre in the first post... Perhaps a "featured project of the week" might work as an occasional thing... get some virtual footfall into the projects section.

food for thought I guess
 
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