Taking "secret" photographs inside a shop?

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shimada

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I really need to take some pictures inside a shop, it is to help a friend out for an art project he is doing and I don't want to let him down. I did call their head office for permission to take some pictures but they just flat refused which they said they always do, they never grant permission.

I don't think going in and taking pictures brazenly until I get thrown out is an option really but perhaps I could try and take some pictures secretly with my smaller camera but is it worth it? What could happen to me if I get caught could I get in serious trouble?

I am not a very brazen person and so am quite worried about doing this but I do want to help my friend.

Any suggestions?
 
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shimada said:
I did call their head office for permission to take some pictures but they just flat refused which they said they always do, they never grant permission.
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Sorry but I think that's where it ends, they have every right to say no and you should just tell your friend that they have refused permission.
 
gramps said:
Sorry but I think that's where it ends, they have every right to say no and you should just tell your friend that they have refused permission.
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Yeah I know I just feel really ad as he really wanted the pictures :(

I will perhaps try some independent dvd rental places to see if they would let me but I think it was the big "multinational" look he wanted.

I think that even taking the pictures secretly would probably undermine the aesthetic he wanted anyway.
 
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Simmotino said:
Out of interest, why doesn't he go and take them? :shrug:
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He has no photography experiance, of course he could take them and if he wants them he will probabaly have to go in and chance his own arm at it.
 
shimada said:
He has no photography experiance, of course he could take them and if he wants them he will probabaly have to go in and chance his own arm at it.
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You don't need photographic experience to take a picture with a mobile phone (in most cases), just a decent eye for composition which as an artist he should have.

You've been warned off by the company in question, so let him do his own leg work.
 
Given that this is not going to be a full blown shoot with complete lighting set up, but a few sneakily taken shots probably with a compact, I would suggest that your friend doesn't need any photography experience and should be taking them himself.
 
Do they have to be of that specific store? And was it made clear what the shots were for? An art project may be of interest to the local press if you dress it up a little - and any firm is likely to go for free publicity.

But, to add to everyone else, don't take shots when permission to do so has been refused. You, your friend, and the college could get into trouble.
 
I am sorry but the shop owners have said no, it is there right to say no. End of story.

But hay I'll just take some secret photos because they will have great composition and after all I am photographer so I have the right to take photos on private property even when I have been told no.
 
I can't really see the big deal here - I have taken quite a few pictures in shops, supermarkets and malls but have simply been discreet and hardly ever get any bother even though I have a D700 which is not small. If you take pics in front of a store detective then they will likely tell you to stop, but common sense is the key here.
 
boliston said:
I can't really see the big deal here - I have taken quite a few pictures in shops, supermarkets and malls but have simply been discreet and hardly ever get any bother even though I have a D700 which is not small. If you take pics in front of a store detective then they will likely tell you to stop, but common sense is the key here.
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The point is that permission to take shots was requested - and refused. I'm not sure what the legal position would be here, but if these shots were to appear in some sort of college exhibition, the store would quite likely take umbrage and I doubt if the college would be very happy were a complaint to be made.
 
boliston said:
common sense is the key here.
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Not really ... O/P asked for permission and permission was denied, going in and taking pics after refusal amounts to trespass.
That is not the way to behave!
 
If they are a national chain, then the only other 'legitimate' route could be to go to a couple of stores and speak to their managers in person and ask their permission, heavily playing on the fact its for an art project? If you try a few, one might say yes? Most likely they'd phone head office too, but if it were after main office hours, then it might work!

We tend to find head offices always say no, so we approach stores at a local level first. Plus the photos we take are never made public and solely for design research which also seems to help.
 
gramps said:
Not really ... O/P asked for permission and permission was denied, going in and taking pics after refusal amounts to trespass.
That is not the way to behave!
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Approaching a head office to request permission to take photos in a shop is almost guaranteed to be refused, as there will be all sorts of legal and insurance related implications if they were to grant permission at that level.

I'm not exactly sure how the security guard in the shop will know that a specific person has been refused permission by head office anyway.

I can see that if you refuse to stop taking photos when asked to by a security guard or store manager then that would amount to trespass, and I certainly would not continue in that scenario.
 
boliston said:
I can see that if you refuse to stop taking photos when asked to by a security guard or store manager then that would amount to trespass, and I certainly would not continue in that scenario.
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How is that any different to being refused by head office?
 
It's his project. Tell him to go take the pictures himself.
 
boliston said:
How would a specific security guard know that a specific person has been refused permission by head office unless the person had submitted photo id with their application? :thinking:
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You seem to be missing the point. The company have stated that photography is not allowed.
 
If photography is forbidden why do you feel you still have a right to take photographs?
 
boliston said:
I often shoot in places where photography is forbidden - the worst that can happen is that you can be asked to leave.
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Actually no, you can make the whole issue of photography worse for everyone, photographers have been doing a great deal to 'legitimise' the pursuit in the eyes of others but actions like these risk undoing that good work.
Sorry but your actions are irresponsible.
 
boliston said:
I often shoot in places where photography is forbidden - the worst that can happen is that you can be asked to leave.
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Umm, no. You could be arrested. You'd be happy if some stranger came into your house and started snapping away, then?
 
gramps said:
Actually no, you can make the whole issue of photography worse for everyone, photographers have been doing a great deal to 'legitimise' the pursuit in the eyes of others but actions like these risk undoing that good work.
Sorry but your actions are irresponsible.
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Agree 100%.

Just because you physically can do something doesn't mean that you should. If all people with cameras had that attitude then there would end up being nowhere we were allowed to take photographs at all.

Irresponsible and selfish I reckon.
 
gramps said:
Actually no, you can make the whole issue of photography worse for everyone, photographers have been doing a great deal to 'legitimise' the pursuit in the eyes of others but actions like these risk undoing that good work.
Sorry but your actions are irresponsible.
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So I am asked to stop taking photos and calmly leave - how exactly has anyone suffered? :thinking:
 
Sorry boliston your reply -
I often shoot in places where photography is forbidden - the worst that can happen is that you can be asked to leave.
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. In my opinion is why photographers become unwelcome in certain places. If you ask and get refused by the owner then do the right thing and find something else to point your camera at.
 
Think Id approach any store manager, and ask face to face explaining why you want the photos and what type of photos you want, say you wont take shots of the staff or other customers, also say you would let him see the shots before you leave, for his express approval
 
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boliston said:
So I am asked to stop taking photos and calmly leave - how exactly has anyone suffered? :thinking:
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Do try to pay attention. Permission to shoot in this particular private property has already been refused. What part of this are you struggling with?
 
jon ryan said:
Umm, no. You could be arrested. You'd be happy if some stranger came into your house and started snapping away, then?
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You cannot be arrested for a civil offence.

If you refused to leave then they could call the police and they could arrest you but there is no way you could be arrested for peaceably leaving the premises immediately after being asked.
 
boliston said:
You cannot be arrested for a civil offence.

If you refused to leave then they could call the police and they could arrest you but there is no way you could be arrested for peaceably leaving the premises immediately after being asked.
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Store manager: Officer, I think this person is planning to rob my store. He's taking photos of the stock he plans to steal, and the security cameras.

Officer (to moronic photographer): You're under arrest, sonny jim.
 
Sadly he just doesn't get it :shake:
 
The fact that you (boliston) cant see the problem, IS the problem.

The fact that photography is forbidden,but for some reason you don't think it applies to you. And you don't see that as problem.

Just humour me and explain why you feel you have this right?
 
boliston said:
I often shoot in places where photography is forbidden - the worst that can happen is that you can be asked to leave.
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And here is why there is so much trouble these days...in all walks of life, not just photography. People blatantly refuse to follow reasonable rules. Blatantly refuse to RESPECT someone else's wishes or rights.

In this case, a company forbids you to take photos on premises they own, but you do it anyway? You still haven't answered the question about people walking into your house and taking pictures, or making themselves a cup of tea, or whatever. it is my guess that you would forbid that action? But that's ok...we could do it anyway...what is the harm?

Ruin everything for everyone else just because you have no respect, for anyone. Shame.
 
Seems to be a common problem these days that people can't accept No as an answer
 
boliston said:
"It's easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to get permission" - Grace Hopper ;)
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My dear Mum used to have a saying for certain types of people......

"What do you expect to get from an ar$e, if not a fart?"
 
OK, so I don't say much here, although I browse the post daily but this one has really got my goat.

The OP clearly is young and new on the forum but I say to you that you can't have it both ways. I suspect that you will agree with all the effort photogrpahers have made to ensure that takling photos in public is respected and photographers shouldn't be hassled by the police and security guards.

No doubt you would complain bitterly if you were stopped from taking picturs in a public place. Rightly so.

But the store is private property. You asked for permission and they said no. That is entirely their right. To go in and now take photos would be utterly wrong. In doing so you could start a backlash against photographers when so much has been achieved over the last couple of years.

Presumably you are talking about Blockbuster. What happens if you get stopped by a security guard and they hold you thinking you are genuinely casing the store. Then it transpires you asked permission. It was denied. You carried on anyway. Then it's in the press.

All of a sudden suspician aganst photographers starts to hot up again.

Anyone can photograph in a public place. Photographers have led the charge in ensuring that freedom is respected. Respect the fact that they have said no and don't go and stomp all over the hard work done with recent photography campaigns.

Vented.
 
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