Taking children out of school for holidays

[DorsetDude]

Of course headteachers take the family as a whole. Schools aren't just factories churning out students with grades. Thats why there is pastoral care, heads of house and home link workers.

Blimey, never had that lot when I was last there!

If a family wedding for example was midweek and the child was to be a page boy as listed bove and the headteacher refused it then how is that head teaching looking out for the best interests of the child. Or in the other example above where a family could only afford a specific holiday outside of term time or not at all. How exactly is forcing that child to be in school better for them in the long run?

One day off to attend wedding as family page boy, fair enough. Family member illnesses, hospital treatments etc ok, obviously.

One week off because parents are too tightarsed to pay for a holiday out of term time, forget it pal.

 

[joescrivens]

You don't think class discipline is a supid rule - but I bet a number of pupils do ( I certainly did when i was 14 )

equally you don't think the no holidays in term time rule is sensible - but i bet the LEA does.

Surely you can see the paralell

No.

I think a hard fast absolute no holidays in term time at all ages, at all stages of the year is the unsensible rule. And I'm sure the LEA has mixed thoughts about it which is why some LEAs are ok with it, others arent and I'm sure many people in the LEA have conflcting thoughts on it.

Classroom discipline could never be a stupid rule if we're talking about sensible good classroom discipline

 

[joescrivens]

Blimey, never had that lot when I was last there!

Well that goes some way to expalaining your opinion on the matter then

One day off to attend wedding as family page boy, fair enough. Family member illnesses, hospital treatments etc ok, obviously.

One week off because parents are too tightarsed to pay for a holiday out of term time, forget it pal.

And what about the family who either go on holiday in term time or ot at all due to the price - how about them? Are they a lost cause. Ask yourself this - are you putting the child first here?

In our case it's actually a lot less to do with cost, but holidays are generally just much nicer in term time when its quieter, places are less busy, children get more opportunity to do everything and in general have a better time - therefore putting them first they get more out of it than what they lose from a week of school at this stage in their life.

 

[f1charlie]

In our case it's actually a lot less to do with cost, but holidays are generally just much nicer in term time when its quieter, places are less busy

Of course they are because the majority are sticking to the rules and not saying "up yours I'll do what I like".

 

[joescrivens]

Of course they are because the majority are sticking to the rules and not saying "up yours I'll do what I like".

which is completely their prerogative. To be honest as others have said - I hope that continues to be the case and more people stick to the rules, as those of us who wish not to can continue to enjoy the benefits

 

[SpikeK6]

We have taken our daughter out of school a few times when she was younger, mainly because of wife not getting holidys from work because of families with older kids.

We took her out for three days when she was nine and got a right snotty letter from the school board, this was the last three days before the school summer holidays so they got a snotty one sent back, never heard any more.

I agree it all depends on the age of the child and the time of year they you plan to take them out, we will not be taking our daughter out now she is 13 and have not done for the last 2 years as she needs school and like said even missing one week can take too much catching up.

 

[strumstrum]

other reasons I wouldn't take the kids out of school for a non emergency is they know the rules so they would know I am choosing to go against them which would make me feel my house rules hold less weight.

 

[joescrivens]

other reasons I wouldn't take the kids out of school for a non emergency is they know the rules so they would know I am choosing to go against them which would make me feel my house rules hold less weight.

Do you ever chat with your kids about rules in general though and have a sensible discussion about when it's ok to bend rules etc?

It's like lying. In our house we have a strict policy of no lying, but at some point kids have to learn how to tell lies sometimes to stop from hurting peoples feelings.

it's important to be able to help your children understand when these things can be broken in order to raise them responsibly in my opinion (others will have different opinions and they are entitled to them - do i have to write this everytime I say something to stop Ade coming in with his gospel stuff?)

 

[keljbj]

I have taken my eldest daughter out of school for a holiday before, in the days where you could fill in a form and request holiday absence to be signed off on by the Head. I probably would do it now, as if we were to save to go on a once in a lifetime holiday (Disney, safari, China etc) i would much rather go during term time. Call me tight if you want, but with four children these things don't come cheap, so if i can save myself £2k by taking them out of school and incurring a £60 fine then i will! No brainer.

 

[jason7579]

We took our daughter out of school for the odd few days / week to go on holiday when she was younger (under 10). She is currently a couple of years ahead of her peers and always gets glowing reports. She is 11 now and her recent reports from school give her a reading age of 14, writing age of 14 and maths and science is either 12 or 13.

Last year we managed to just scrape together enough to go camping on the south coast for 4 days during the holidays and this year we may get another few days camping. We cannot afford to take the kids away during holiday periods and if we had abided by the school rules my daughter wouldn't have experienced any trips abroad.

We will take them out of school again when my son is old enough to appreciate Disney world. As there is no way we can afford to take them in term time. My outgoings are pretty much on par with my earnings and I don't smoke or go to the pub.

 

[Julie1979]

I should add, when we were taken out of school my parents ensured we had homework to do during the holidays so that we didn't miss out. The teacher was happy to do this. We were never taken out of high school though, just primary. We'd never have been able to afford the holiday otherwise.

 

[big soft moose]

No.

I think a hard fast absolute no holidays in term time at all ages, at all stages of the year is the unsensible rule. And I'm sure the LEA has mixed thoughts about it which is why some LEAs are ok with it, others arent and I'm sure many people in the LEA have conflcting thoughts on it.

Classroom discipline could never be a stupid rule if we're talking about sensible good classroom discipline

In our perception as adults I agree - but does a 13 yo with an entitlement attitude think its sensible that he can't talk when the teachers talking .. does he **** , he wants to talk about girls, cars, and footie to his mate baz - not listen to how algebra works,

and we're talking about the example you (or any parent who flouts LEA rules) is setting their kids - is it really a good idea to teach kids that if they don't agree with a rule they should break it ?

 

[big soft moose]

Do you ever chat with your kids about rules in general though and have a sensible discussion about when it's ok to bend rules etc?

Deliberately breaking a rule to save some cash and saying "oh well it saves me money even if i have to pay the fine" isnt bending a rule - its an outright rule break and for no good reason

so it wouldnt fall under the "when its okay to bend rules" bit anyway

 

[Organnyx]

Floyd and the Small Faces had it right "Anuvver brick in the wall........" (etc), and "You can miss out school (won't that be cool) - Why go to learn the words of fools?"

As you may guess, I view schools dictating when you can holiday with your kids as unwarranted state intrusion - they can reasonably request that you take them within certain times, but for them to try to force you into it is a step far too far........
Wanders off muttering about forcing them through the state sausage machine to fit them for becoming wage slaves in the corporate machine, and becoming "good consumers".....(thinking for yourself being strongly discouraged)

 

[Uneducated_Rick]

It depends on the subjects missed and the child as to how easy it will be to catch up - any humanities subject which often involves a lot more debate, interaction and individuals discussing the subject rather than learning rules and formulas will be impossibly to replicate no matter how much you try (at least it was to me when I was off school for a long time due to my leg).

Maths and science can be caught up - English Lit, Geography, History and RE require you to be present at all times

 

[joescrivens]

Deliberately breaking a rule to save some cash and saying "oh well it saves me money even if i have to pay the fine" isnt bending a rule - its an outright rule break and for no good reason

so it wouldnt fall under the "when its okay to bend rules" bit anyway

In your opinion. I disagree because nobody has said it's just to save pennies.

The times when it was to save money was due to times when otherwise it meant not going at all.

In my example and op it's the less busyness that is the reason we go with the price simply being an added bonus.

 

[Furtim]

This is certainly an area where the schools are tightening up.

My three kids are now 20, 15 and 14 and the rule when they were all much younger from the school was along the line of 'family holidays up to two weeks will be approved'.

This changed a few years ago, and we had to jump through a few more hoops, but the school still allowed it if the timing was sensible (ie. a week tacked on to the end of half term to make two weeks).

However in recent years, it has become a flat no, with penalties in place if you do.

So we did take our kids out of school for holidays when they were further down the school, but it has been at least 5 years since we last did that, and there is no prospect of doing so in the future.

Did we do the right thing? In hindsight, and fully accepting the hypocrisy of the situation, I'm going to say a qualified 'No'.

My wife has worked extensively in both primary and secondary schools as a Maths specialist, so I'm basing this on her experience and feedback.

The kids in primary school learn at such different rates and ages, especially in the earlier years, that there is always a good degree of re-work going on in the classes, so it's not a big deal if one kid is two weeks 'behind' the rest - this is always going to be the case anyway. That said, if the school thought it was not appropriate, I'd support their decision.

Secondary school, with streamed classes, this just does not work - the group do need to move forward as a group and concepts are layered, so it is a real pain when people get of our synchronisation. Now it happens for reasons other than people buggering off to soak up the sun for two weeks, but let's not make it any worse than it needs to be.

In so far as engendering the belief in your child that any rule they don't like can be dismissed, that's just a bit too simplistic. Schools need conformity in order to function, rules provide conformity - you might not like it, but that is the reality in today's sausage factory that is our education system. Scoring 'one for the man' by supporting your child's right to break free of the shackles of oppression may sound ideal, but in reality, it's just selfish.

We've seen plenty of examples where mummy and daddy's little prince or princess is too precious to follow the 'rules' for fear of crushing their burgeoning individuality. The current guidelines in force at my wife's place of work is to remove all the well behaving pupils from class when one of the more troublesome darlings plays up, so as not to give the disruptive pupil negative attention, while removing their audience. It's bloody stupid.

 

[cambsno]

Teachers don't care about disruption when they strike!!

Have taken son out of school already and will be doing do again in sept. no harm done and as its a farm holiday will learn a lot too. Planning a Disney trip in a couple of years and will do the same then if its cheaper.

 

[big soft moose]

Well that goes some way to expalaining your opinion on the matter then :And what about the family who either go on holiday in term time or ot at all due to the price - how about them? Are they a lost cause. Ask yourself this - are you putting the child first here?
.

Lets be serious - how much does it cost to go on holiday anyway (even in the school hols) - if you can't afford to go abroad go in the uk, if you can't afford to rent a house in the uk , camp (also if you can't afford to go in July/August , go at easter or whit instead)

I grew up seriously skint (pretty much because dad was drinking all the spare cash) but some of our best holidays were a tent on a small farm campsite and 5pppn for adults and £2.50 for children doesnt break the bank. ( or change that much - the site we run its £6 and £3 in July and Aug , so for an average family thats an extra £17.50 pw if you come in peak season)

If you can't even afford that, then the chances are there are more important things to spend money on if you are putting the child first anyway.

 

[big soft moose]

In my example and op it's the less busyness that is the reason we go with the price simply being an added bonus.

but if everyone thought like you it wouldnt be less busy - but hey thats okay so long as everyone else folloows the rules you'll be fine :shrug:

 

[joescrivens]

but if everyone thought like you it wouldnt be less busy - but hey thats okay so long as everyone else folloows the rules you'll be fine :shrug:

Half the people you mean. Not everyone. By the poll and stats online it would appear it's a 50:50 situation. So yes hopefully it will stay that way

 

[Craig1912]

Taking our 12 year old out for a week at the end of this month. I don't see it makes a difference as they don't seem to do much at the end of term. Having said that it is the first time and we never took our 17 year old out.

 

[TriggerHappy]

Maybe they should make the fines sufficient to become prohibitively expensive. It seems pretty dumb to impose a fine of £60 to stop people taking early holidays when the savings can easily be 10x that amount.

I don't actually have an opinion on whether it's right or wrong to take a kid out of school, but the half-arsed attempt to stop it with a petty fine ****es me off. Either do nothing or do it properly to deliver the desired result rather than just beating around the bush to look busy.

 

[joescrivens]

Also if people went on holiday through all term times as well as holidays there would be less people on holiday at the same time and the effect of the busyness and the prices would be reduced it would be nowhere near as busy or expensive in the summer. That would be better for all.

 

[big soft moose]

Also if people went on holiday through all term times as well as holidays there would be less people on holiday at the same time and the effect of the busyness and the prices would be reduced it would be nowhere near as busy or expensive in the summer. That would be better for all.

Except prices wouldnt reduce - they'd just equalise at the summer rate for the whole summer season , making it more expensive for anyone who wants to go away between april and september regardless of whether they have kids.

 

[KryptoNeo]

I'm taking my kids on a weeks holiday at the end of September roughly 3 weeks after the summer holidays end. I'm doing so as the difference in price to go during the summer holidays is an extra £700.
Yes it's a poor excuse to pull your child from school but my kids deserve a holiday abroad just as much as any other kid. Unfortunately even though I work full time I simply cannot afford to take them during peak times.

 

[big soft moose]

Maybe they should make the fines sufficient to become prohibitively expensive. It seems pretty dumb to impose a fine of £60 to stop people taking early holidays when the savings can easily be 10x that amount.
.

That - make the fine £1k per child per incident - that way hardly anyone will do it, and anyone who does will be contributing to the austerity strapped coffers

oh yeah and require a doctors cert for any "sick" absence of more than 3 days (like you do for employment) so that people can't just claim little johny was sick for the week instead

 

[joescrivens]

Except prices wouldnt reduce - they'd just equalise at the summer rate for the whole summer season , making it more expensive for anyone who wants to go away between april and september regardless of whether they have kids.

How do you figure that?

Prices change based on supply and demand. If there was less demand in July be use peopl were going in April or may or even feb then prices woud drop.

Seems pretty obvious to me. That's usually how economics work.

 

[big soft moose]

but my kids deserve a holiday abroad just as much as any other kid. .

so that will be not at all then - no one "deseves" a holiday abroad - its a luxury for those that can afford it within the law

 

[joescrivens]

That - make the fine £1k per child per incident - that way hardly anyone will do it, and anyone who does will be contributing to the austerity strapped coffers

oh yeah and require a doctors cert for any "sick" absence of more than 3 days (like you do for employment) so that people can't just claim little johny was sick for the week instead

And then they'll be even more people holidaying in the summer holidays so as demand increases prices will soar even higher

Doesn't sound as good an idea now does it?

 

[big soft moose]

How do you figure that?

Prices change based on supply and demand. If there was less demand in July be use peopl were going in April or may or even feb then prices woud drop.

Seems pretty obvious to me. That's usually how economics work.

Because there isnt full capacity in July /August but prices don't go down due to that

which indicates that the rules of suppy and demand don't atually apply - providers just charge what the market will stand

 

[strumstrum]

how can the 'no harm done' comments be said?? how do you know that A wouldn't have been an A+ had you not whisked off for a week term time? your child misses a sports match on the week your'e away or a school trip and feels excluded upon their return.. you don't know the effect it would have until it has happened..

my daughter is the main goal scorer on the football team how can I consider taking her away from the team to go on holiday term time? that is a team of 11+ children who rely on each other.. I would put money down that if I was the type to break policy and I gave my daughter the option of a trip to Disneyland at the expense of missing a week of school she would choose school.

 

[big soft moose]

And then they'll be even more people holidaying in the summer holidays so as demand increases prices will soar even higher

Doesn't sound as good an idea now does it?

see my other post on price - everyone with kids is supposed to be on holiday in the school holidays anyway - and as smmer accom isnt at full capacity making them holiday then won't affect prices.

 

[joescrivens]

see my other post on price - everyone with kids is supposed to be on holiday in the school holidays anyway - and as smmer accom isnt at full capacity making them holiday then won't affect prices.

I think you are wrong. Supply and demand. I doubt we'll agree though so no point regurgitating the point.

 

[joescrivens]

how can the 'no harm done' comments be said?? how do you know that A wouldn't have been an A+ had you not whisked off for a week term time? your child misses a sports match on the week your'e away or a school trip and feels excluded upon their return.. you don't know the effect it would have until it has happened..

my daughter is the main goal scorer on the football team how can I consider taking her away from the team to go on holiday term time? that is a team of 11+ children who rely on each other.. I would put money down that if I was the type to break policy and I gave my daughter the option of a trip to Disneyland at the expense of missing a week of school she would choose school.

The real point is this:

Do what's in your family and child's best interest. If that means not going in school time then do that.

If not then take them out.

But don't let the government tell you what's best for your own family and child

 

[Furtim]

The real point is this:

Do what's in your family and child's best interest. If that means not going in school time then do that.

If not then take them out.

But don't let the government tell you what's best for your own family and child

How about when what you do in your best interest is to the detriment of others? Even if it is just a case of setting an example for others - surely there is some value in that towards the greater good?

Or are we all in it for what we can get for ourselves now?

 

[joescrivens]

How about when what you do in your best interest is to the detriment of others? Even if it is just a case of setting an example for others - surely there is some value in that towards the greater good?

Or are we all in it for what we can get for ourselves now?

How is it in the detriment of another?

 

[Furtim]

How is it in the detriment of another?

Taking a child out of a class affects others when the teacher has to re-cover old ground.

It may be your child and another child are paired in certain activities.

It makes it more likely that others will do the same, most likely at a different time (people's behaviour is influenced by others, we don't live in a vacuum).

Compound this further by every child and every parent choosing which rules they will follow and which others are 'blatantly stupid' and sooner or later your child's education will be impacted.

 

[new2me]

What happens if in the case of a class of thirty, each child is taken out of school for individual weeks holiday? The teacher(s) then playing catchup the whole term.
Totally irresponsible and selfish behaviour in my opinion

 

[joescrivens]

Having been a teacher I can confirm that those things written above aren't an issue. You don't recover the old ground you expect the student to catch up in their own time. It rarely ever affects anyone else in the classroom.

Of course there are some times and those are at coursework etc. those are the wrong times and not the ones we are discussing.

If anything those of us that holiday in term time are helping keep costs lower for you that don't