Syncing woes. Camera, triggers or me?

juggler

juggler

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2 cameras, 3 triggering systems. Either some combinations just don't work or my shiny new camera is faulty. Can you help me work out which?

Olympus OM-D E-M5 & Aputure Trigmaster 2.4G: syncs fine at 1/200
OM-D E-M5, YN 560TX & YN560III: syncs fine at 1/200
OM-D E-M5, AD 360 & Godox FT16: syncs fine at 1/200

Nikon D750 & Aputure Trigmaster: occasionally (1 in 5) totally fails to sync at 1/160. I've heard hearsay that this is to be expected with those triggers on this camera,
D750, YN560TX & YN560III: occasionally (1 in 10) fails to sync at 1/160
D750, AD360 & Godox FT16: hasn't failed at 1/200 yet
D750 & YN560III in hotshoe: hasn't failed at 1/200 yet.

So.. I'm nervous that this is a problem with my shiny new camera. Or have I just been lucky in the past with cheap triggers on my old OM-D E-M5?

According to Nikon's website the new camera isn't subject to one of the service advisories and it's firmware is up to date.

Any insight or experience would be most welcome.
 
The fact others have noted problems with the D750 and Trigmaster combinations would suggest it may well be the camera model, but not specifically your camera.
For that reason, the similar problems experienced with the D750 and Yongnuo could potentially be the same as the Trigmaster problem.

Are you set to 2nd curtain sync? (potential for a missed sync, which I have experienced with some triggers previously)
 
Try increasing the distance between camera and transmitter and flash and receiver. The receivers keep trying to receive a clear uncorrupted command from the transmitter, which fires a long burst of them. In electrically noisy places sync may therefore take longer. One source of electrical noise is the camera. Another is the flashgun.
 
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chris malcolm said:
Try increasing the distance between camera and transmitter and flash and receiver. The receivers keep trying to receive a clear uncorrupted command from the transmitter, which fires a long burst of them. In electrically noisy places sync may therefore take longer. One source of electrical noise is the camera. Another is the flashgun.
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That's a new one to me...
 
sk66 said:
That's a new one to me...
Click to expand...
I think Chris may be referring to the problems that Pocket Wizards experienced with Canon cameras, to the point they introduced a "shield" for their transmitters,
I don't recollect the same issue cropping up with any other brand of triggers, TBH
 
Michael Sewell said:
This is the article published by Pocket Wizard themselves.

As I mentioned earlier, I am unaware of any similar challenges experienced by other radio trigger manufacturers.
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Seems to be mostly about extending range. Except for the 1M minimum distance recommended, and that's probably due to potentially insufficient signal spread (dead spots). Conversely, there can be a "cone of silence" over distance with most antennae designs (neither of those factors should be an issue indoors).

For the 430/580's it says the RF interference reduces the range... i.e. they need to be closer together so that the signal can cut through it.

I'm *not* saying Chris is wrong... I've just never heard of it and it doesn't make sense to me offhand.
 
sk66 said:
Seems to be mostly about extending range. Except for the 1M minimum distance recommended, and that's probably due to potentially insufficient signal spread (dead spots). Conversely, there can be a "cone of silence" over distance with most antennae designs (neither of those factors should be an issue indoors).

For the 430/580's it says the RF interference reduces the range... i.e. they need to be closer together so that the signal can cut through it.

I'm *not* saying Chris is wrong... I've just never heard of it and it doesn't make sense to me offhand.
Click to expand...

The PW issue is the only one I've ever come across, personally.
It was highlighted on Strobist at the time, which is over six years ago.

Not come across any similar issues with Nikon cameras, speedlights etc, or third party combinations. In fact, other than the Canon issue mentioned, I've not come across anything remotely similar.
I'd certainly be interested if there have been reported incidents, and the circumstances involved.
 
I had a similar issue many years ago and ended up changing over my system from canon to Nikon.
Other than whats been said already, you can try taking an eraser to the contacts and dropping the sync speed to 1/100th.
How did you get on with fresh batteries?
If rechargeable, do you have a battery tester? I've had a 'dead' battery cause problems also.
Good luck.
 
Michael Sewell said:
I think Chris may be referring to the problems that Pocket Wizards experienced with Canon cameras, to the point they introduced a "shield" for their transmitters,
I don't recollect the same issue cropping up with any other brand of triggers, TBH
Click to expand...
In fact, it's a common problem.
In real world use the problem may only exist with certain models of Canon cameras, I know that there have been problems (denied by Canon)
But in testing mode, people tend to have the various bits of kit very close to each other, and problems occur all the time, regardless of manufacturer.
 
Garry Edwards said:
In fact, it's a common problem.
In real world use the problem may only exist with certain models of Canon cameras, I know that there have been problems (denied by Canon)
But in testing mode, people tend to have the various bits of kit very close to each other, and problems occur all the time, regardless of manufacturer.
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Were the Canon problems not some kind of interference in the image caused by the interference from a trigger mounted on the camera? The problem the OP is complaining about here is a problem with a rather variable degree of success in getting a high sync speed, variable in the sense of not always happening, and getting variation in the amount of image darkened by a flash firing after the shutter starts opening. That means there is variable delay. That's a sure sign of electrical interference. I've been at some events where there was so much interference from something that some photographers found their radio triggers oddly unreliable. I have some old flashguns which interfere with an early model of Cactus trigger if the gun is mounted on the trigger shoe. The problems disappear when i use a flash bracket and a cable to give me a few inches more distance between them.

A good way of checking if you have this kind of problem is to move the flash right away to the limits of its radio range. Once it's become unreliable due to distance it's easy to see if increasing distance between flash and trigger makes any difference. Remember to try shots during the recharging period.
 
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chris malcolm said:
Were the Canon problems not some kind of interference in the image caused by the interference from a trigger mounted on the camera? The problem the OP is complaining about here is a problem with a rather variable degree of success in getting a high sync speed, variable in the sense of not always happening, and getting variation in the amount of image darkened by a flash firing after the shutter starts opening. That means there is variable delay. That's a sure sign of electrical interference. I've been at some events where there was so much interference from something that some photographers found their radio triggers oddly unreliable. I have some old flashguns which interfere with an early model of Cactus trigger if the gun is mounted on the trigger shoe. The problems disappear when i use a flash bracket and a cable to give me a few inches more distance between them.

A good way of checking if you have this kind of problem is to move the flash right away to the limits of its radio range. Once it's become unreliable due to distance it's easy to see if increasing distance between flash and trigger makes any difference. Remember to try shots during the recharging period.
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That particular problem, from memory, was with the 5D2, due to poor shielding.

The common problem arises when the transmitter and receiver are physically too close to each other.
 
The Pocket Wizard problem is unrelated to cameras, only with some models of Canon speedlite that emit radio frequencies close to those used by PW triggers. This is the old 433MHz range, not the more recent 2.4GHz that pretty much everyone uses these days. On the old frequencies, the result can be dramatically reduced range with certain Canon guns. Cures, or partial cures are a) to avoid certain models of Canon-branded flash (lots on this on the PW website etc), b) fit a PW sock or shield to the gun, c) have the gun modified, d) increase the distance from the flash gun to the trigger, ie connect via an extension cord.

RF interference is rare on the 2.4GHz frequency, but can happen and is notoriously hard to identify, especially when it's intermittent. Some DJ equipment at weddings can be troublesome, or a nearby taxi rank, or some domestic radio control devices operating lights or audio etc. FWIW, I've used 2.4 triggers in environments known to be full of these things, with no problems - but hardly a comprehensive sample! It's rare, but can and does happen.
 
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HoppyUK said:
RF interference is rare on the 2.4GHz frequency, but can happen and is notoriously hard to identify, especially when it's intermittent. Some DJ equipment at weddings can be troublesome, or a nearby taxi rank, or some domestic radio control devices operating lights or audio etc. FWIW, I've used 2.4 triggers in environments known to be full of these things, with no problems - but hardly a comprehensive sample! It's rare, but can and does happen.
Click to expand...

It is in fact extremely common, 2.4GHZ is the unlicensed ISM (Industrial Scientific & Medical) issues being microwave ovens, virtually anything wireless from camera WiFi to DJ mics and security systems - just all the event photographers that have had wireless issues which stop when you go the 5GHz range unless woeking at the NEC when all channels are blocked.

Mike
 
Just to update this thread in case someone stumbles across it in the future..
  • Aputure Trigmaster Plus V1 triggers just don't work reliably with the D750, rarely syncing at 1/125 or faster. I'm told that the V2 versions are fine.
  • The Yongnuo 560TX & 560III work fine at 1/200 now I've treated the transmitter to some new batteries, but in broadly the same RF environment which wasn't working before
  • The Godox X1N works fine at 1/200 and with only very minor shading at 1/250
  • Reasearch elsewhere indicates that the D750 hotshoe is very slightly longer than other Nikons, resulting in all sorts of reliability issues with some triggers - e.g Phottix - and flashguns, including Nikon's own. The solution is apparently to put a very thin shim at the front of the shoe - but do your own research.
Thank you all for your help.
 
juggler said:
Just to update this thread in case someone stumbles across it in the future..
  • The Godox X1N works fine at 1/200 and with only very minor shading at 1/250
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So they work correctly where they should and you get issues where you should i.e. max sync is 1/200 so shading at 1/250 is to be expected - you can however adjust timing on the X1 which may be a cure

Mike
 
juggler said:
Just to update this thread in case someone stumbles across it in the future..
  • The Godox X1N works fine at 1/200 and with only very minor shading at 1/250
Click to expand...
So they work correctly where they should and you get issues where you should i.e. max sync is 1/200 so shading at 1/250 is to be expected - you can however adjust timing on the X1 which may be a cure

Mike
 
juggler said:
Exactly right - if I can tweak the x1 then 1/250 would be a minor bonus.
Click to expand...

Pocketwizard used the term Peak Sync I believe which was essentially just for this scenario, try the timing adjustment on the X1, not sure if it will help but worth atry

Mike
 
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