Switch to Full Frame - advice

Craigus

Craigus

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Craig
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Firstly, sorry this is long and I know this has been done to death, but I hope some of you will relate to my situation.

Landscape photography seems to be the thing I enjoy the most and get the most satisfaction from. I have an 80D which I purchased at the end of last year as an upgrade from a 1200D, I already had some other Canon bits including a couple of crop lenses that I wanted to keep using so it was a logical way to go. I love the 80D and it is a fantastic camera. I chose it partly because I wasn’t sure which direction I would go with my photography but wanted to upgrade, this camera seemed to have a good range of features and excellent reviews so would be suitable for whatever I wanted it to do.

However, now that I know its landscapes that I want to pursue I can’t help feeling like I should be shooting Full Frame. I’ve read both sides of the argument time and again and by no means does my current camera limit me or prevent me from doing what I want at the moment. If money was no issue I would obviously make the switch (wouldn’t we all) but I don’t have masses of spare income. I still can’t help feel the pull, I could likely sell my current setup and get a second hand FF body and probably one good quality lens, but would that end up limiting me while I save for a wide angle?

I’m not really sure what my question is though. I’m sure plenty of you have made the switch or have decided not to bother, what was your reasoning?

Ultimately I know that I’m over thinking it and my current setup isn’t stopping me from taking great pictures. I know this comes across as me not knowing what the advantages of Full Frame are, therefore I should stick with what I have. I'm just not sure if its 'worth it' for me.
 
Give in .... this is going to eat away at you until you get a FF ... This post says it all really... Some can live without and as you say you probably can.. But once that little voice enters your head as it so obviously has then nothing is going to stop it... Your looking for replies saying don't bother... even they want stop the nagging thought about going full frame.....You will get one... That's photogrpahy i am afraid.. May as well get one now as suffer for weeks :(
 
I went from full frame to a crop sensor (different manufacturer) then back again. There IS a visible difference. Go for it
 
KIPAX said:
Give in .... this is going to eat away at you until you get a FF ... This post says it all really... Some can live without and as you say you probably can.. But once that little voice enters your head as it so obviously has then nothing is going to stop it... Your looking for replies saying don't bother... even they want stop the nagging thought about going full frame.....You will get one... That's photogrpahy i am afraid.. May as well get one now as suffer for weeks :(
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Fully agree, but as landscapes don't move ( well not very quickly) the latest AF and high ISO is not going to be a deciding factor, so used Canon 5dMk2+Canon 17-40 f4L or 24-105 f4 should do the job admirably and you should be able to get that kit in very good condition for sub £1000
 
If you are a pixel peeper or want to blow images up to fill your bedroom wall then go for it. You will notice the difference.
If you look at images on a computer screen, mobile phone or printed no bigger than A3 then it is doubtful if you will see the difference.
But GAS tends to be the main driving force in such decisions!
 
troutfisher said:
Fully agree, but as landscapes don't move ( well not very quickly) the latest AF and high ISO is not going to be a deciding factor, so used Canon 5dMk2+Canon 17-40 f4L or 24-105 f4 should do the job admirably and you should be able to get that kit in very good condition for sub £1000
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This is my point exactly. For landscapes I don't need 45 AF points and 7 FPS etc that the 80D has. My only worry would be that I'd miss some of the other features if I changed to a 5D2 or a 6D. I know only I can answer that...
 
I made the move a while back to a D700 - it did give me better ISO and just generally better images but importantly scratched that itch!!
 
I took a few shots in the garden last week, so Iso 400 1/500 at F5.6 for most of the shots. I used 50D plus 60mm macro and 5D3 plus 100mm macro and then compared the results of what was a very easy lighting setup (natural daylight), so nothing too testing of either cameras abilities.
The resulting shots at 100% werent "that" different tbh in terms of noise and detail, but the colours were nicer on the 5D3 (FF against the crop 50D).
For landscapes etc I am not sure you would notice the difference between a FF and an 80D, so I would suggest you hire before you buy.
Matt
 
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I guess you need to set a budget. Whether you're prepared to sell what you've got and move brands. Would you be happy to start with a body and say a 24-70 and then build from there.
 
If you want FF then get FF but nowadays justifying it in terms of IQ is increasingly difficult and what's more, if it really were about the best IQ and best sensor then nobody would shoot Canon.
 
The reason I've stuck with crop frame is that the IQ differences between FF and crop only start to become visible at higher ISOs. Since I shoot almost all of my landscapes and cityscapes, where I want top IQ and edge to edge detail, in good light, and when I'm being fussy about top quality, on a tripod, when I can always keep ISO as low as I like, I have no need for FF. FF would greatly increase my body costs, increase my lens costs a bit, and noticeably increase the bulk and weight of my everyday opportunistic carry gear.

When I started taking digital photography seriously in 2007, playing with a 2nd hand 10MP bridge camera while I studied the market and decided what I wanted, I did manage to take a few good photos which will still feature in my portfolio of best shots when I get round to doing that. Every few years, when I've bought a new camera and probably a better lens of the appropriate focal length, I go back to some of those good old shots to try and improve them. Although I can usually easily improve detail resolution, sharpness, etc., I often fail to produce a better image. I've learned from such experiences that generally speaking my failures to produce better quality images when I'm trying my best with my best gear are probably only 2% due to not having better gear, about 10% to not having better camera skills, about 20% to not having better artistic skills, about 30% to not having the patience to wait for the right lighting, and 38% to just bad luck.

So probably the worst investment I personally could make to improve the quality of my portfolio of best shots would be buying better lenses or camera bodies.
 
Choosing the right FF camera and lenses will be the ultimate decider in whether your decision to go full frame is the right one.
 
Financially it doesn't make sense, but why should something you enjoy have to make financial sense? If you can afford the upgrade go for it, Kipax is right, once the idea is in your head it won't go away until you have tried full-frame.

I was in much the same position, before getting a Canon FF earlier this year - there was an irresistible offer at the NEC show in March. Having had a 7D for some years, the idea was in my head and it would not go away, driven mainly by the irritation from the 7D's noise levels in some shots. I prevaricated for a couple of years, "my photography isn't good enough to justify a FF camera" etc.

I dug deep, bought the 5D and a wide-angle lens too (I already had a 24-105mm) - I am very happy with the upgrade, the FF offers much more latitude when doing PP work and the difference in noise levels is substantial. Are my photographs hugely better? Not really, but they are better, especially when printed or on a large screen. Was it worth the cash? Yes!

You may see a smaller difference as I believe the 80D is a lot better than the original 7D, but there is something nice about FF and the extra latitude you have in exposure levels and PP.

Chris
 
Nawty said:
If you want FF then get FF but nowadays justifying it in terms of IQ is increasingly difficult and what's more, if it really were about the best IQ and best sensor then nobody would shoot Canon.
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No they'd shoot Sony but saying they wouldn't shoot Canon isn't much help.

Craig has to decide what he's prepared to do in terms of financial outlay etc. Then perhaps people can give some suggestions as to what he should be looking at to get the best bang for his buck.
 
Thanks for all the replies. I think in terms of budget I would be looking at getting rid of my gear and a bit of pocket money I could go to £1,200 - £1,300. I'm not in a particular hurry though, only thing is I wouldn't want the 80D to drop in value whilst I have it but I doubt it would that much over the next six months, which would give me more time to save if needed.

I should also point out I bought an old 5D classic with a 50mm prime for my wife to use and I love using it, although its low megapixel and it's pretty old and battered there is something about the photos you get from it, the colours are so vibrant and they just look 'right'. I would like something that has live view though.

Would consider switching systems though if there were a better alternative.
 
Narrow your choices and rent one. You can also find websites to download RAW files to see which suit your post processing style.
 
Craigus said:
Thanks for all the replies. I think in terms of budget I would be looking at getting rid of my gear and a bit of pocket money I could go to £1,200 - £1,300. I'm not in a particular hurry though, only thing is I wouldn't want the 80D to drop in value whilst I have it but I doubt it would that much over the next six months, which would give me more time to save if needed.

I should also point out I bought an old 5D classic with a 50mm prime for my wife to use and I love using it, although its low megapixel and it's pretty old and battered there is something about the photos you get from it, the colours are so vibrant and they just look 'right'. I would like something that has live view though.

Would consider switching systems though if there were a better alternative.
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I was in your position - got the Sony A7 for a decent price and am enjoying it so far. Its even got me using manual lenses which I never thought I would.
 
I've got a 7DMk2 and a 6D and I think the only time you can see a real difference in IQ is when used for low light / astro stuff :)
 
I'm on my 3rd full frame camera (fourth if you count my old film camera!) and I jut couldn't go back to crop as my main camera.

I just love the (less) depth of field for portraits!

35mm is on its own hardly something special though a tiny format that was looked down upon for years by professionals and owners of larger format cameras.

Let's face it it's purely a price (and sometimes size) argument. If money wasn't an issue we'd all be rocking medium or large format cameras!
 
I thought I'd get more people telling me not to worry about it and get out there with what I have! :LOL:
 
Craigus said:
I thought I'd get more people telling me not to worry about it and get out there with what I have! :LOL:
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That's the logical and sensible direction to go in - it's true that when viewing at web images etc. it will be hard to spot the difference between crop and FF, so there's no need to upgrade to FF. You could argue that spending the cash on a photography trip would be better - just as long as you can ignore the FF itch.

Chris
 
Craigus said:
I thought I'd get more people telling me not to worry about it and get out there with what I have! :LOL:
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Problem is that even smaller formats than apps-c like the one inch sensor can produce exhibition quality A3 prints so for most people crop sensors will produce images that are far better than they need.

Full frame will always offer better IQ period but the opportunities to demonstrate this are getting less and less.
 
Just a quick point on keeping costs down but not being limited to one lens :D

I have a Sony A7 and often use old manual lenses on it and this is one way to go FF and keep the costs down. Used A7's are reasonably priced and add a set of manual primes and you're good to go :D I'd suggest a set of three or four from these - 24 or 28mm f2.8, 35mm f1.8 or f2.8, 50mm f1.8 or f1.4, 85mm f1.8, 135mm f2.8 or 3.5.
 
Personally Id go for it. I had the A77 lovely, very capable camera but always wanted a full frame after trying one for a short while, I saved every penny and got the A99 and love that camera. Cant really explain why but every time I pick the camera up I know im going to get a good shot ! Perhaps the differences between FF and Crop just suit the way I shoot but ive never regretted the decision. If the worst happens and you really dont like it you can always sell it again but I have a feeling that if you really want it then what ever you choose will work for you.
 
morph1909 said:
Personally Id go for it. I had the A77 lovely, very capable camera but always wanted a full frame after trying one for a short while, I saved every penny and got the A99 and love that camera. Cant really explain why but every time I pick the camera up I know im going to get a good shot ! Perhaps the differences between FF and Crop just suit the way I shoot but ive never regretted the decision. If the worst happens and you really dont like it you can always sell it again but I have a feeling that if you really want it then what ever you choose will work for you.
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I loved the A99. At one point I had that, all 6 Sony/Zeiss lenses, a 70-200 and the Sony 70-400mk2.

Baby came along and apparently new curtains/carpets and sofa were more important! Whuda funk it!
 
Interesting. I'm not familiar with Nikon at all really and especially not the lens range. Advantages over the 6D?
 
Craigus said:
Interesting. I'm not familiar with Nikon at all really and especially not the lens range. Advantages over the 6D?
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D750 is just a better all round camera. Has a big advantage at low ISO in terms of shadow recovery. However it has been subject to at least one recall dependent on serial number so if you're buying second hand it might be worth checking that if it fell into the serial no batch that it has gone back to Nikon and been checked and/or repaired.
 
The D750 is probably the very best all round FX camera vs price point, I think for 99% of us it is more than enough camera unless you want mega resolution for prints. I team with the 16-35/70-200 f4 for a reasonably lightweight kit.

That said, a lot of landscape photographers are using Fuji now which is crop and it doesn't hold any of them back. Heck I know an excellent landscaper using micro 4/3s. If you want full frame then go for it, but I think in 2017 it's not the be all and end all for landscapes.
 
Hmm, seems like a D750 might be a bit of a stretch when coupled with a good quality lens. Currently I'm leaning towards a 6D with a 17-40 F4 as it will be within my budget and the focal length will be fine most of the time. I am slightly concerned that lens is quite old now though, but I think the 16-35 is out of my budget.
 
Stu Meech said:
The D750 is probably the very best all round FX camera vs price point, I think for 99% of us it is more than enough camera unless you want mega resolution for prints. I team with the 16-35/70-200 f4 for a reasonably lightweight kit.

That said, a lot of landscape photographers are using Fuji now which is crop and it doesn't hold any of them back. Heck I know an excellent landscaper using micro 4/3s. If you want full frame then go for it, but I think in 2017 it's not the be all and end all for landscapes.
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Thats actually a very good point, I think most cameras have come on so far now that there really are not that many "bad ones" and for most if you take the time to learn and really get to know your camera and lenses you can produce excellent images. Ultimately I think ts about finding a camera and lens combination you feel comfortable with that has the options you like. If its full frame, crop, micro 4/3 will become secondary.
 
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