Suspended sentence for gamekeeper poisoning BOP

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Its gone too far. There are over 3000 non indigenous species in the UK. Some of these are harmless but others aren't. Grey squirrel for example. Then you've got species like mink which were farmed for profit but escaped or were released by animal rights activists. (Ironic really when your beliefs are so strong that you release them to ensure they don't end up across the shoulders of someone but unleash a fearsome predator into the wild where native species have no answer to it). Then you have the really odd ones where birds like eagle owls are released they grow too big and they will kill other owls.

The proof of how nature can control itself is no better represented by Yellowstone national park where they removed all the wolves.
 
Mink are succumbing to the re emergence of otters and regular caging, greys are controlled by any means possible. Those are the only two creatures that are controlled on the estate.
 
Gary Coyle said:
Theyre all gods creatures mate and as for the "Vermin" argument im pretty sure the 2 week old leveritt plucked up by the "protected" bird of prey thinks that said bird is Vermin also.
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OK so I work in pest control / wildlife management.
As such kill things for a living.
Where would you draw the line?

In the course of an average year I kill
fleas, nasty little biting buggers,irritating as hell.
Psocids (book lice if you like) eat stuff like the glue on books.
So they eventually fall apart at the seams
Cockroaches, everyone loves a cockroach, especially when their favourite take-away is shut down,
because of hygiene issues.
Wasps, up to 5000 in a successful nest, by the end of the season, they nick food off your BBQ, chew fences for their nests
stingy things too.
Of course no one in their right mind is going in the loft if that's where the nest is.
(Unless fully protected and paid to do so)

And a myriad of other insects / arachnids that cause allergies
and ants that seek out sweet things, and fly to mate by their thousands during the summer.
Its a b****r if the nest happens to be in your house too.

Moving up to the mice that overwinter in your roof space,
chewing wires, scrounging from the kitchen
when you are asleep and urinating as they walk along your work surface in search of crumbs,
to scent mark your house as theirs .

Rats same just a bit big bigger, but do tend to urinate in places rather than spread it about a bit,
Of course Weils disease is only carried by a small percentage,
but who's taking the chance that your "one" isn't affected by it?

Of course grey squirrels, like rats, move into the roof space,
chewing wires water pipes water tanks to get the moisture, rafters and stored goods,
papers, Christmas decorations whatever in your loft to build a nest.
They are only there for the winter normally though.

Rabbits are such an agricultural pest there are
two separate acts for the control of.

Foxes, as mentioned, a lot are becoming urbanised,
and have learned that a rabbit hutch or guinea pig hutch
its just like a take away, very easy to tear the front off.
And a nice warm meal ready to go.
And of course their firm favourite, the domestic chicken.

And thats not to mention the none indigenous species
like Muntjac and Glis Glis, both very destrucive.
 
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Cobra said:
In fact there was an article in the trade magazine recently (well back in the summer)
A guy destroyed a wasps nest with the approved chemical (its a dust)
The dust drifted to neighbouring bee hives,
(Ok he was negligent inasmuch as he must have used way too much)
Killed a few hundred bee's and he felt the fall force of the law!

Another, from a few years back,
a guy was replacing fascia boards on a house.
There was a Swifts nest on / just below the old one,
he carefully removed it,
set it to one side, replaced the fascia board,
and mastic'd the nest back in the same spot.

He was video'd doing this, by a concerned member of the public,
another "full term" was issued for that too!
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Maybe slightly off topic but couple of years ago the neighbours had a single story extension erected which borders our property to the north. the builder was a bit crap in that such a poor fit, a colony of honey bees took up residence in the loft space. I noticed this and mentioned it to neighbour who had wondered what the buzzing noise was. Next thing builder turns up with an aerosol of insect repellant and was going to nuke the bees. To say I went a little bit apes**t at him was an understatement and neighbour had no problem with the bees either.... grrrrr
 
Lynton said:
Maybe slightly off topic but couple of years ago the neighbours had a single story extension erected which borders our property to the north. the builder was a bit crap in that such a poor fit, a colony of honey bees took up residence in the loft space. I noticed this and mentioned it to neighbour who had wondered what the buzzing noise was. Next thing builder turns up with an aerosol of insect repellant and was going to nuke the bees. To say I went a little bit apes**t at him was an understatement and neighbour had no problem with the bees either.... grrrrr
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Yep they will do that, poke a nest and they poke back!

Believe it of not, they, wild honey bees are NOT a protected species and as long a you can justify
killing them, ie small children / older people at risk. then its perfectly legal.
Bumble bee's, the "solitary bees" are all protected.
 
There is some good news. Some species have recovered with a lot of help. Then you see the work that Ade and the landowner that he works for are doing. There are people out there who devote their lives to it. All I do is try and make sure I follow the old saying. Take nothing but pictures leave nothing but footprints kill nothing but time.

I've photographed ospreys for the last three years in Scotland. I wonder how much of an opportunity I would have had without the work of Ron Dennis who in 2004 was given an award by the RSPB who considered him to have done the most for nature conservation in Scotland in the last 100 years
 
I find any animal cruelty totally objectionable, cannot see the sport in shooting an overweight bird that can hardly fly.

Realise that the bullfighting comment is just one more attempt to provoke reaction, but the author really is becoming a right pain in the arse
Also its affect, can't even get that right, many eastern Europeans are more eloquent and no doubt the reason they would be more desirable employees
 
Cobra said:
OK so I work in pest control / wildlife management.
As such kill things for a living.
Where would you draw the line?

In the course of an average year I kill
fleas, nasty little biting buggers,irritating as hell.
Psocids (book lice if you like) eat stuff like the glue on books.
So they eventually fall apart at the seams
Cockroaches, everyone loves a cockroach, especially when their favourite take-away is shut down,
because of hygiene issues.
Wasps, up to 5000 in a successful nest, by the end of the season, they nick food off your BBQ, chew fences for their nests
stingy things too.
Of course no one in their right mind is going in the loft if that's where the nest is.
(Unless fully protected and paid to do so)

And a myriad of other insects / arachnids that cause allergies
and ants that seek out sweet things, and fly to mate by their thousands during the summer.
Its a b****r if the nest happens to be in your house too.

Moving up to the mice that overwinter in your roof space,
chewing wires, scrounging from the kitchen
when you are asleep and urinating as they walk along your work surface in search of crumbs,
to scent mark your house as theirs .

Rats same just a bit big bigger, but do tend to urinate in places rather than spread it about a bit,
Of course Weils disease is only carried by a small percentage,
but who's taking the chance that your "one" isn't affected by it?

Of course grey squirrels, like rats, move into the roof space,
chewing wires water pipes water tanks to get the moisture, rafters and stored goods,
papers, Christmas decorations whatever in your loft to build a nest.
They are only there for the winter normally though.

Rabbits are such an agricultural pest there are
two separate acts for the control of.

Foxes, as mentioned, a lot are becoming urbanised,
and have learned that a rabbit hutch or guinea pig hutch
its just like a take away, very easy to tear the front off.
And a nice warm meal ready to go.
And of course their firm favourite, the domestic chicken.

And thats not to mention the none indigenous species
like Muntjac and Glis Glis, both very destrucive.
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Theyre not cuddly wuddly though
 
fracster said:
Because it is too late pal, we have cut down swathes of woodland and forest to create crop growing fields to feed us. We have interfered for centuries and will not stop doing so. However, a more wildlife friendly way of managing woodland,estates, forests ect is beginning to happen more and more.

I`ll give you a free day out next spring,see for yourself what we are doing.

It is now beer time, but I will return to this thread,i`m more than happy to discuss the good and bad points of shooting, there are two sides to it bud.
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@Gary Coyle

offer is there Gary, you can borrow my lenses if needs be.
 
Very few people are starving in this country and for those that are its not because wildlife has restricted food production.

Its possible to cultivate land for the benefit of both but the will has to be there. Some farmers do it and far more could.

Would you want a country where the only reminders of birds and animals reside in museums?
 
Gaz J said:
Very few people are starving in this country and for those that are its not because wildlife has restricted food production.

Its possible to cultivate land for the benefit of both but the will has to be there. Some farmers do it and far more could.

Would you want a country where the only reminders of birds and animals reside in museums?
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I'm truthfully not that bothered. I love to eat Pheasant though and if these birds of prey obstruct that I've no issue with the necessary been done.

I've little working knowledge of country life other than I like nice scenery and gamey food to eat. What people do to procure it doesn't bother me. If a few Kites/Kestrals or whatever they're called have to be shot or poisoned for others to make a living so be it IMHO
 
ST4 said:
You'll probably yawn at this. I see the fox hunting ban a travesty and a socialist urbanite assault on the rural economy
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You're missing the point completely in the case of poisoning BOP. It doesn't need to be done. Only 30% of birds raised are shot. It's been a historical abuse that just happened because landowners and game keepers didn't want anything competing.

Foe hunting is just cruelty. It's inefficient and exists purely for those that take part to have a good time.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and yours is as long as it doesn't affect me it's fine. You seem to have an extreme view of the world anyway so it's perhaps not surprising you feel this way.

Fortunately there are people in who want to see and live in a balanced world where everyone can find some enjoyment in their lives.
 
ST4 said:
I'm truthfully not that bothered. I love to eat Pheasant though and if these birds of prey obstruct that I've no issue with the necessary been done.

I've little working knowledge of country life other than I like nice scenery and gamey food to eat. What people do to procure it doesn't bother me. If a few Kites/Kestrals or whatever they're called have to be shot or poisoned for others to make a living so be it IMHO
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Post of the decade........:clap:
 
Gaz J said:
Foe hunting is just cruelty. It's inefficient and exists purely for those that take part to have a good time.
.
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What's wrong with that. The biggest anti fox huntering were the sorts that never had set foot in the countryside. I see their outrage, but they never participated in country life or made a living from the land. Pubs, bars etc exisit purely for those to have a good time as do cinema's and restaurants.

Whatever the case re the bird poisoner, they broke the law, but a jail stretch for a working man trying to make a living and no people were killed. Nah, IMHO tough. But I do not hold animals in the same asteem as people. Plus I adore eating pheasant.
 
Your complete lack of understanding relating to this topic is staggering.

Please go back to your anti everything outrage and leave this subject alone, as you are clearly posting for an argument.
 
fracster said:
Your complete lack of understanding relating to this topic is staggering.

Please go back to your anti everything outrage and leave this subject alone, as you are clearly posting for an argument.
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Forum's are for discussion not for hysterical outbursts like that. I am entitled to post my views on the subject on this sentence given (sadly, so are you), and like the court system and reasoning as to why you might poison BoP's given, the sentence is about right, IMHO. Feel free to disagree and appeal the sentence through the courts.

fracster said:
Post of the decade........:clap:
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Are you a self appointed moderator or something?
 
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ST4 said:
What's wrong with that. The biggest anti fox huntering were the sorts that never had set foot in the countryside. I see their outrage, but they never participated in country life or made a living from the land. Pubs, bars etc exisit purely for those to have a good time as do cinema's and restaurants.

Whatever the case re the bird poisoner, they broke the law, but a jail stretch for a working man trying to make a living and no people were killed. Nah, IMHO tough. But I do not hold animals in the same asteem as people. Plus I adore eating pheasant.
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Well you're right about one thing thing. You know f all about country living. I've lived all of my life in the country as have the vast majority of my friends and to a man and woman they are all against fox hunting.

What's being a working man got to do with it. Is that a new form of defence for breaking the law now?

You're just displaying complete ignorance here and once again your bigoted opinions leave no room for any others in your mind.
 
Gaz J said:
Well you're right about one thing thing. You know f all about country living. I've lived all of my life in the country as have the vast majority of my friends and to a man and woman they are all against fox hunting.

What's being a working man got to do with it. Is that a new form of defence for breaking the law now?

You're just displaying complete ignorance here and once again your bigoted opinions leave no room for any others in your mind.
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Well, the courts aren't in the business of putting people on the dole and taking a self supporting tax paying person out of circulation unless they are really bad. His suspended sentence will mean he will no longer poison BoP.

I don't know many animal cruelity sorts, but I know many people (as rural people who were clients of a company I worked for) who were very against the ban. They enjoyed it. I saw no harm in it. Not my idea of fun due to my dislike of dogs.

I see anti hunt/anti bull fighting people as bigots. Depends on the side of the fence you sit.
 
We are anti hunt from the cruelty side of it. You obviously have no problem with cruelty to animals. That's a pretty shameful admission and it's why organisations exist to try and protect animals from that sort of persecution.
 
Gaz J said:
We are anti hunt from the cruelty side of it. You obviously have no problem with cruelty to animals. That's a pretty shameful admission and it's why organisations exist to try and protect animals from that sort of persecution.
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I don't have no problem with it, just less of a problem with it. Hunting and bull fighting are a big part of our British Heritage and culture, to me banning them is the bigger issue than the cruelity. Wanton cruelity for the sake of it I cannot get, but hunting, bull fighting and even trying to manage a rural estate, yes I can see it

Plus in context of this thread, nature is cruel. How animals kill each other isn't pleasant, is this poisoning really that big a deal? In the scheme of life there are far more deserving people of being detained at her majesties pleasure. The courts see it that way too.
 
And once again, a thread gets "Steve'd".
 
ST4 said:
I don't have no problem with it, just less of a problem with it. Hunting and bull fighting are a big part of our British Heritage and culture, to me banning them is the bigger issue than the cruelity. Wanton cruelity for the sake of it I cannot get, but hunting, bull fighting and even trying to manage a rural estate, yes I can see it

Plus in context of this thread, nature is cruel. How animals kill each other isn't pleasant, is this poisoning really that big a deal? In the scheme of life there are far more deserving people of being detained at her majesties pleasure. The courts see it that way too.
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It was part of British heritage and culture to take over other countries to form an Empire but we don't do that anymore either.

Nature isn't on trial here. Nature is cruel and in that cruelty is beauty. Look at how predators have evolved and why they have evolved. Nature manages itself far better than man. Supply and demand. No food no chicks reared to fledge. Plenty of food more reach adulthood. Without predators nature becomes unbalanced and over time will impact on the scenery that you claim to enjoy.

You'd enjoy it a lot more if you took the time to learn a bit about it and it's inhabitants instead of adopting this selfish the world must run to my creed attitude that you seem to have.

It's not the scale of the crime. It's not just a few birds. It's a fundamental principle that we have a responsibility to the world that we live in to manage it for future generations so that they can see and enjoy the beauty that we have enjoyed.
 
Gaz J said:
It was part of British heritage and culture to take over other countries to form an Empire but we don't do that anymore either.

Nature isn't on trial here. Nature is cruel and in that cruelty is beauty. Look at how predators have evolved and why they have evolved. Nature manages itself far better than man. Supply and demand. No food no chicks reared to fledge. Plenty of food more reach adulthood. Without predators nature becomes unbalanced and over time will impact on the scenery that you claim to enjoy.

You'd enjoy it a lot more if you took the time to learn a bit about it and it's inhabitants instead of adopting this selfish the world must run to my creed attitude that you seem to have.

It's not the scale of the crime. It's not just a few birds. It's a fundamental principle that we have a responsibility to the world that we live in to manage it for future generations so that they can see and enjoy the beauty that we have enjoyed.
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What we do is natural though, if we weren't meant to do what we do, we wouldn't have evolved to be able to do it, would we. We are the primary predator and like it or not, we get to control what lives and what dies.

I also admire we had an empire and its a travesty we no longer have it.
 
ST4 said:
What we do is natural though, if we weren't meant to do what we do, we wouldn't have evolved to be able to do it, would we. We are the primary predator and like it or not, we get to control what lives and what dies.

I also admire we had an empire and its a travesty we no longer have it.
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We can't run our own country much less an empire.

You really think we are the top predator? Yes but only if we utilise our technology. Get your self out to Africa with just youre wits and balls and see how much of a top gun you are then.

You obviously still feel that Britain is a major force in the world and that other countries should drop on bended knee and salute that fact. Get real dude.
 
Gaz J said:
We can't run our own country much less an empire.

You really think we are the top predator? Yes but only if we utilise our technology. Get your self out to Africa with just youre wits and balls and see how much of a top gun you are then.

You obviously still feel that Britain is a major force in the world and that other countries should drop on bended knee and salute that fact. Get real dude.
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We cannot run our country because we have gone soft and weak. We used to be strong and decisive. The legacy our forebears left us is being squandered and p***ed away. In saying that, Britain is still a force to be reckoned with. The whole world watched with interest when the break up of the UK was put to a referendum. We are a key financial and military player. What happens here matters.

Because I am a human if I went to the wilds of Africa I wouldn't have to go as an animal, I could go with a car, gun(s) and see how that would deal with "wildlife". Humans are not handless creates like wild animals, we've evolved from that
 
ST4 said:
We cannot run our country because we have gone soft and weak. We used to be strong and decisive. The legacy our forebears left us is being squandered and p***ed away. In saying that, Britain is still a force to be reckoned with. The whole world watched with interest when the break up of the UK was put to a referendum. We are a key financial and military player. What happens here matters.

Because I am a human if I went to the wilds of Africa I wouldn't have to go as an animal, I could go with a car, gun(s) and see how that would deal with "wildlife". Humans are not handless creates like wild animals, we've evolved from that
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A major military player. USA scrap more naval equipment in a year than we own. I will agree with you that the military are superb and should be treated a damn sight better than they are.

And you'd want your mobile phone and iPad and inflatable mattress.

Anyway the apes would have your windscreen wipers in a flash.

You're a dinosaur dude. The world and the rest of us have moved on. The Neanderthal minority are an endangered species.

Anyway this isn't getting me anywhere except a bit of typing practice. So I will bow out now.
 
ST4 said:
I'm truthfully not that bothered. I love to eat Pheasant though and if these birds of prey obstruct that I've no issue with the necessary been done.

I've little working knowledge of country life other than I like nice scenery and gamey food to eat. What people do to procure it doesn't bother me. If a few Kites/Kestrals or whatever they're called have to be shot or poisoned for others to make a living so be it IMHO
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Perhaps you could look at it this way:
Imagine if honest, plucky hard-working British people were shot in the face so that immigrants could take their jobs and houses, whilst dibble looks on and does nothing.
That's roughly equivalent to killing native (and threatened) birds of prey to "protect" a non-native species bred and released in huge numbers each year (some 35 million annually according to Game & Wildlife Conservancy Trust). Incidentally, far more pheasants end up as road-kill than are taken by BOPs (see here for figures: http://www.gwct.org.uk/research/species/birds/common-pheasant/fate-of-released-pheasants/)

Hope this helps.
 
a perfectly good and interesting thread ruined by Steve and his intolerance of most things.
 
Stereotypical bullied mummies boy who is repugnant to women and has no friends vents his spleen on a non threatening photography forum
Please take your unpleasantness ST4 and go away, you really are an odious creature
 
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