Suspended sentence for gamekeeper poisoning BOP

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Disgrace. The end!!
 
totally agree. There is no deterrent in this sentence, an absolute nonsense of a f*****g law.

excuse my swearing, but in annoys the crap out of me.
 
Anyone who believes that laws are relevant to country people are living in cuckoo land, he's just been unlucky to get caught but then wriggled off the hook. Happens all the time, it's no surprise to me and will continue as long as their is no punishment :meh: :indifferent:
 
probably find the judge was his employer .normally the way it works or at worst someone that shoots on the estate and knows him .grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
 
Gaz J said:
10 week suspended sentence for poisoning 11 birds of prey. That a real incentive to stop. Hardly worth having the law in the first place.
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wow thats a joke i bet if someone poisoned 11 cats they would be sent down
where was this at?
 
Shot in the face of course:)
 
ST4 said:
Just out of curiosity, what do people here think the sentence should be?
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The "statute" for wildlife crime is £5000 and or 6 months.

How he got away with I shall never know :(
 
fracster said:
12 bore loaded with 6 shot up the sphincter.
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Not in the face?

I trust you support the death penalty for other crimes like murder, armed robbery, child molesting?

crofter said:
Make him a nice steak garnished with his own bird food additive.
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Poisoning people for crimes against animals. I assume you're not one of the people against my ideas for dealing with illegal immigrants. Just asking. I've got to ask why pick poisoning rather than being shot in the face?
 
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In fact there was an article in the trade magazine recently (well back in the summer)
A guy destroyed a wasps nest with the approved chemical (its a dust)
The dust drifted to neighbouring bee hives,
(Ok he was negligent inasmuch as he must have used way too much)
Killed a few hundred bee's and he felt the fall force of the law!

Another, from a few years back,
a guy was replacing fascia boards on a house.
There was a Swifts nest on / just below the old one,
he carefully removed it,
set it to one side, replaced the fascia board,
and mastic'd the nest back in the same spot.

He was video'd doing this, by a concerned member of the public,
another "full term" was issued for that too!
 
The "statute" for wildlife crime is £5000 and or 6 months.
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Was this the first offence? If so, in line with any offence against animals, it was comparatively a high sentence if you measure it against other summary only offenses with that sentence range. Maximum sentences almost never happen. For example theft carries 10 years, so nick a mars bar, what do you think you will get? Absolute discharge probably for first offence.

Years ago, a bank robber on his way out was confronted by a Police dog handler, declined to do as he was asked, so the handler let mutley go. Robber shoots mutley, and runs off.

Within a few days he'd been grassed by lots of people, and was nicked., He was sentenced to a far higher term than nearly every bank robber I'd ever heard of. Moral of the story, when it comes to animals, don't do it, cause if you are caught, you are in deep poo.
 
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I'm a gamekeeper myself and I'd hate to see this happen to my local birds of prey. We also get a lot of Ospreys around here and is a massive attraction over the summer.
 
Cobra said:
The "statute" for wildlife crime is £5000 and or 6 months.

How he got away with I shall never know :(
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How many criminals get the max term?

There are plenty of robbers and knife thugs who walk with a slapped wrist.

Bit ironic that I can put mouse traps down and kill mice or shoot rabbits, but wow betide me if I do the same to a cat or something.
 
cambsno said:
How many criminals get the max term?
There are plenty of robbers and knife thugs who walk with a slapped wrist.
.
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Agreed, but the couple of examples I gave above felt the full penalty of the law.
Doesn't add up really does it?

cambsno said:
Bit ironic that I can put mouse traps down and kill mice or shoot rabbits, but wow betide me if I do the same to a cat or something.
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Again, true enough but the law clearly defines vermin,
and what can be "taken" under the "general licence"
 
ST4 said:
Just out of curiosity, what do people here think the sentence should be?
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Forced labour in London Zoo feeding crocks and lions while wearing a bear suit to make him sweat his guts out :)
 
He should have got the max under the law which in itself is far too lenient. Also we should adopt the Scottish law under which the landowner becomes liable also so the "sorry guv knew nothing about it" argument is removed? That combined with an increase in the time that someone could be jailed and judges who aren't afraid to use it instead of handing down joke punishments might then make these people realise that they cannot get away with this.
 
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Agree the sentence is a joke
There's obviously intent as he killed 11 birds
 
Gaz J said:
He should have got the max under the law which in itself is far too lenient. Also we should adopt the Scottish law under which the landowner becomes liable also so the "sorry guv knew nothing about it" argument is removed? That combined with an increase in the time that someone could be jailed and judges who aren't afraid to use it instead of handing down joke punishments might then make these people realise that they cannot get away with this.
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That is vicarious liability legislation. Never been used so far (many folk wonder why), but the first two cases are going "progressing" through the court processes. Don't hold your breath.
 
He should have got the max under the law which in itself is far too lenient.
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Why?

If you're caught for speeding would you expect the maximum sentence, thats £2500 on a motorway, or £1000 anywhere else, disqualification can be included. I suspect there'd be howls of protest on here if someone copped for that.

Theft? How about that one? You nick a mars bar, have 10 years.

Sentences are handed out on a sliding scale, within guidelines issued by the Attorney General. Apart from Murder & treason where life is mandatory, you work your way up depending on offence circumstances and previous convictions. No one ever gets the maximum for a first offence.

Had this been a simple theft, he wouldn't even have been charged, had his offence been speeding he'd have got a ticket. The fact he was 1,. charged, not cautioned, and 2. given a suspended prison term shows how serious this was taken.
 
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Maximum fine and lifetime firearms ban would have been more punitive
 
The convict plead guilty to 5 charges relating to killing raptors plus possession of of two banned pesticides (types used by poisoners) and a firearms offence. The judge did say that the offences had crossed the custody threshold.

The sentencing is one thing, but perhaps what should be the major concern is that the types of poison used are lethal to humans. Touch them and put the finger to your mouth - goodnight Vienna. The estate where this criminal worked is one where parties of school children are taken. What an outcry there would be (and rightly so) if a child ever gets poisoned due to criminal activity. One day it will happen.
 
arclight said:
The convict plead guilty to 5 charges relating to killing raptors plus possession of of two banned pesticides (types used by poisoners)
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What did he use? Just curious as I am a pestie.
All I could find was
Lambert, 65, of Holt Road, Edgefield, was found guilty of deliberately killing 10 buzzards and a sparrowhawk,
and possession of pesticides and items used to prepare poison baits.
At an earlier hearing he pleaded guilty to five other charges including illegal use of pesticides and possession of an illegal firearm.

That doesn't mean that they were illegal, just using them on a none target species is.

If it was warfarin (Most likely) its not a banned substance
And the LD 50 for that is about 5Mg / kg
An adult female buzzard weighs around a Kg
So in reality a 10mg in one dose would be enough to kill one bird.
or even 2 mg accumulative over 5 days.
and adult female spar weights about 250-300g

Just musing and not condoning his actions in anyway.
 
Cobra said:
Another, from a few years back,
a guy was replacing fascia boards on a house.
There was a Swifts nest on / just below the old one,
he carefully removed it,
set it to one side, replaced the fascia board,
and mastic'd the nest back in the same spot.

He was video'd doing this, by a concerned member of the public,
another "full term" was issued for that too!
Click to expand...

To be fair he shouldnt have disturbed the nest at all if it was active. Not that your average Joe would know that. But when this BOP killer gets off scot free makes you angry.
 
Gaz J said:
He should have got the max under the law which in itself is far too lenient. Also we should adopt the Scottish law under which the landowner becomes liable also so the "sorry guv knew nothing about it" argument is removed? That combined with an increase in the time that someone could be jailed and judges who aren't afraid to use it instead of handing down joke punishments might then make these people realise that they cannot get away with this.
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It's expensive to lock people up. £119,000 for a new prison place and about £35,000-£40,000 a year to keep them in jail. They could do it as long as you don't mind paying for it.
 
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I think the sentence is far too lenient. A custodial sentence would seem right. He has lost his job and his home so there is some severity in the consequences, but this should not influence sentencing imo.

@Cobra he was using mevinphos and aldicarb, one has been illegal for about 20 years I think and the other since around 2007. Here is one source http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/oct/02/gamekeeper-guilty-poisoning-birds-of-prey-Norfolk

The only reference to illegal guns is in the telegraph so I'm thinking that isn't the case, otherwise I'm sure the sentence would have been more sever ...
 
PaulButler said:
The only reference to illegal guns is in the telegraph so I'm thinking that isn't the case, otherwise I'm sure the sentence would have been more sever ...
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Yes he probably would have got 11 months suspended.
 
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