suspended from work....need advice

Oh and I got it all on digital dictaphone...timed dated, confirmation of who was at the meeting...very usefull to refer to at any possible tribunal's (obv through legalities it would be inadmissable but...it's 'my notes to refer to' :)
 
Remember if nothing is proved you could possibly bring a case of attempted deformation of character against the accuser and/or the company.
I suggest you seek legal advice on this point and make them pay for their mistake.

As for sacking you there are set proceedures the company has to abide by in the way of written and verbal warnings in the first instant.

Realspeed
 
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realspeed said:
Remember if nothing is proved you could possibly bring a case of attempted deformation of character against the accuser and/or the company.
I suggest you seek legal advice on this point and make them pay for their mistake.

As for sacking you there are set proceedures the company has to abide by in the way of written and verbal warnings in the first instant.

Realspeed
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I think you mean defamation of character :shrug:?

Best of luck with getting this resolved.
 
realspeed said:
Remember if nothing is proved you could possibly bring a case of attempted deformation of character against the accuser and/or the company.
I suggest you seek legal advice on this point and make them pay for their mistake.

As for sacking you there are set proceedures the company has to abide by in the way of written and verbal warnings in the first instant.

Realspeed
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well, as soon as they decide their course or rather they inform me of their course of action i'll be seeing a lawyer and taking it from there (re the defamation of character)
They dont usually bother to much about proper proceedures, the attitude 'we'll do as we want, then throw some money at it' seems to prevail, but on saying that this is the first time they appear to be doing things as they should although they've still not advised me to put it in writing or even to my knowledge started to investigate my bullying and harrassment claim. :shake:
 
I'd be getting my union representative to contact them asking what the delay is, that's nearly 3 weeks you've been kept hanging and that's not acceptable.
 
It looks a case of contructive dismal IMO so stick in there mate
 
maddog said:
yes, I was in at work for an 'investigatory meeting' last tues so they could decide if it needed to go to a disciplinary or not. I recieved a copy of the statement that was made against me....and it does not list ANY mention that I cause/d any conflict or do not behave and act proffesionally at work, It states that I comply and respond to all requests politely and with no confrontation!!
Since then I've heard nothing back, they appeared to be taken aback that i felt bullied at work from the other individual in question......furthermore they admitted to failures in management, the my operational skills were adequate and competent and a few other things. So if they sack me it'll be tribunal....which i have no doubt i will win. The only point they have is that there was a 'shouting match' between myself and a co-worker, outside working hours and away from work!
But it's a two way point...can't discipline one without the other. I'm still suspended 'on garden leave' untill further notice. To be honest its now dragging on a bit to the point where I'm starting to want not to work there anymore. Next week is Easter holidays for a week and if I've not heard anything this week then i think I'll start looking for another job as the uncertainty is starting to wear on my wife and I, esp with two terrors...erm young daughters!
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Your employers need to be very specific about the reasons for your suspension ... If this shouting match happened outside of work it could still be disciplinary! however they should be telling you exactly what has happened and why it is being investigated?
 
maddog said:
Oh and I got it all on digital dictaphone...timed dated, confirmation of who was at the meeting...very usefull to refer to at any possible tribunal's (obv through legalities it would be inadmissable but...it's 'my notes to refer to' :)
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Your employeers should of made a set of notes from the meeting as well, which they should give you a copy of (ask if they don't) 'cause if it goes that far a tribunal will want to see them. If they don't match your own recording then you'd have some very interestign questions to ask.

I know its a long way off but if this goes against you you must appeal. They must also give you the right to do so. If they don't give you this right a tribunal will find against them, but if they offer it and you don't take it, even if the tribunal finds for you, they may reduce your payout, by as much as 50%.
 
Splog said:
Your employers need to be very specific about the reasons for your suspension ... If this shouting match happened outside of work it could still be disciplinary!
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Indeed they do, however regarding the shouting match it COULD depend upon whats in your contract, ie if it bought the company in to disrepute, also was you wearing any sort of company uniform/clothing when the incident took place so as to identify who you work for, although again it would depend upon the circumstances, personally this side of it i wouldn't worry to much about it, as it does appear from what you have said your company is quite haphazard in there approach.

And as has already been mentioned they should keep minutes of every meeting with you which you MUST have a copy of, if you haven't make it a priority to get them now, generally the meeting should consist of a manager chairing the meeting plus his witness to take the notes, plus yourself and your witness/union rep to take note's give advice request adjournment should he feel he needs too.

On a personal note, i know it's difficult not to, but don't be tempted to throw the towel in and leave, as this would be letting the company off the hook massively, stick at it because from the way you have explained it i can't see how you can lose, good luck and do keep us updated :thumbs:
 
Well today my wage arrived in the bank...NOT what I was told or entitled to...a couple hundred less, but it's irrelevant the sum involved. I called the site office to enquire about it only to be called back and aasked if i hadn't recieved their letter, Which I duly did once post was past. It instructs me to attend site office at 1300 tomorrow for a disciplinary hearing which may lead to me being disciplined!
It's the first correspondance I've recieved from them since the 'investigatory hearing'.
strangely the first two letters were recieved in plenty of time....and correctly addressed, this one was wrong postcode and posted last night.....perhaps co-incidence....perhaps not. Tomorrow i'll be there but under no circumstances will I be backing down or accepting any warning or sacking, I'll be asking for a copy of their grievance procedure, which I'll be following up regardless whether or not It goes for or against me, as they have still failed in their responsibilities, furthermore the allegation made is [sp]uncoroberated [sp] as they have no statements from any potential witnesses to say anything, so as far as i'm concerned i shouldn't have been penalised for the allegations made against me.
 
I've not got a copy of the minutes of the meeting, would it be unreasonable to request them and re-schedule the meeting? ACAS have already told me they MUST be willing to re-schedule once.
Also would it be 'reasonable time' to have given me less than 24 hrs notice of this hearing?
 
Ah, I remember now. I was posting here when my internet went down...
What I was trying to write was - did you know they were going to make deductions from your pay? Did they give you any notice of it, or did you believe that you were suspended with pay?
Google "Unlawful deductions from pay". There is a law against it if you were not informed of it. Starting to sound constructive what is happening, so I would mention it to your union rep and/or ACAS.
 
Contact your union rep asap re their attendance with you and get them to reschedule the hearing if possible. You should be given reasonable time to prepare and I reckon that includes time to read through the minutes which you haven't got. If you want to continue to work there, don't be confrontational about it but stand by your rights.
 
Just a few point from me regarding this :D

You are entitled to at least 24hrs notice to prepare for the hearing, anything less would certainly be considered unreasonable!

They should have sent you a copy of the grievance procedure.

A re-schedule should not be an issue.

You can ask for a copy of the minutes of the meeting!

They should have clearly outlined the case for the disciplinary hearing.

Inform you of your rights .. i.e entitlement to representation etc...

All the above are what the employer should do ... but it's guidance for them, in other words if they don't do the above then any tribunal would hold it against them and that would be favourable for you!

But the most important point here is that it is illegal for them to deduct anything from your wages without your prior consent. Please note you have to agree to the deduction and if you haven't, they have actually broken the law, could be prosecuted and will certainly have to pay to back the deduction. Until the hearing has been concluded you are entitled to all the benefits, payments etc as if you had been at work!


Good luck :thumbs:
 
maddog said:
I've not got a copy of the minutes of the meeting, would it be unreasonable to request them and re-schedule the meeting
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No it wouldn't be unreasonable at all, in fact these should have been given to you more or less straight after the investigation hearing, at least the hand written ones anyway, then you can ask to have a typed version before any disciplinary hearing takes place, they must give you at least 24 hours notice, there is no harm in attending the meeting with a union rep, then ask for an immediate adjournment for the typed minutes of the meeting, you must have time to prepare for any meeting with your union rep, this is not an unreasonable request.

Just on a point of suspension pay, not all suspension is payable, however this should have been outlined to you when they suspended you, and they should have told you if you would get paid, however the fact they have paid you but left you £200 short i would assume would mean your entitled, you haven't outlined what the £200 short fall is so hard to determine what you mean, but certainly take it up with your union rep ;)
 
Well the outcome was i got handed the previous meetings minutes...almost straight away, even better they said that they had a witness (produced no statement or corroboration of this) I was then told I would be recieving a first written warning. As yet they haven't confirmned what this written warning is for. But regardless I will be appealing it and taking the company to tribunal, and submitting a grievance procedure notice.
 
maddog,

This is the first time I have read this thread, I admire you for standing up for your rights and making sure the company does everything it has to do morally and legally in taking this action against you, its all too easy to roll over and just do what companys want in this day and age.

I hope everything turns out well for you.

Sorry I have no advise to add, but it looks like the forum and your sources are giving very good advice.

Mark
 
maddog said:
Well the outcome was i got handed the previous meetings minutes...almost straight away, even better they said that they had a witness (produced no statement or corroboration of this) I was then told I would be recieving a first written warning. As yet they haven't confirmned what this written warning is for. But regardless I will be appealing it and taking the company to tribunal, and submitting a grievance procedure notice.
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So you don't know what it is for? Appeal, ask for evidence.
Bear in mind that confidentiality prevents them from telling you if another person has been disciplined, if this relates to the OOh incident you talked of.
 
These links may help

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/ResolvingWorkplaceDisputes/Disciplinaryprocedures/DG_10028114

http://www.acas.org.uk/media/pdf/9/5/CP01_1.pdf

Especially the second one, from what you say they havn't conformed with the rules that are laid down by acas and they are in deep deep do dos. Well worth doing a print off so you know your rights at any meeting. I would even go as far as to say you may very well have a legal claim against them for failing to follow proceedures.


Realspeed
 
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maddog said:
Well the outcome was i got handed the previous meetings minutes...almost straight away, even better they said that they had a witness (produced no statement or corroboration of this) I was then told I would be recieving a first written warning. As yet they haven't confirmned what this written warning is for. But regardless I will be appealing it and taking the company to tribunal, and submitting a grievance procedure notice.
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Stevie, this firm you work for seems to be utterly shambolic. They come across as not knowing what they are about.

This is like reading Franz Kafka - The Trial:-
"The Trial is a novel by Franz Kafka about a character named Josef K., who awakens one morning and, for reasons never revealed, is arrested and subjected to the judicial process for an unspecified crime."

I hope you get this to a tribunal. Your employer will not be permitted to behave like he has done at that event.
 
I've a guy to call tomorrow who was/is a union rep and dealt mostly exclusively with the type of firm i work for. And I'll take it from there. I surmise they (co I work for) were hoping that as per the norm for employees I would roll over and accept whatever they said. I won't, if I'd been 100% wrong I'd be the first to hold up my hands and say 'no, It's my fault whatecer happens happens' but under no circumstances will I accept a decision wrongly.
 
I have kept out of this thread, but over the last few posts your company has come across as a right shower of burkes and the management even more so.

But then, I only have one side of the story,there are always more.Best of luck no matter what.
 
Hope this works out in your favour mate. It always seems the case that these companies can do as they please with little return on them. Its good to see someone standing up for what's right and taking it to them.

Best of luck :thumbs:
 
So, let me get this straight.

You have attended a disciplinary hearing, and at least one other meeting with them, they have handed out a punishment - but as yet you to do no know what this punishment is for?

What the hell? :thinking:

How on earth can a company even think that is acceptable behaviour - I've worked for a shambles company before and ended up on the wrong end of a boss that wanted me out but even they followed the correct procedure.

You've got a good case against that company IMO.
 
Submit the grievance first. They then have 28 days to respond. If they fail, you can then apply for Employment Tribunal. As far as I know, the ET won't accept claims that have not exhausted the internal grievance procedure.
Don't forget about including the unlawful deductions from wages in your grievance too in addition to the other stuff that have happened!
While you're at it, put in a Data Protection Subject Access Request for everything the company has about you / your Personnel records and everything else you want to look at. Costs £10 I think.
 
How do I go about submitting the grievance? and to who should I address it to?
And as of this morning they've still not paid me monies owed in wages. The site is on holiday so it might be difficult to get hold of anyone, I'm going to try head office down in bedfordshire to see if that gives any joy. Then I'm seeing lawyer today if I can possibly get hold of one.
 
Get the union to do that for you.
 
Steep said:
Get the union to do that for you.
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You actually have to do that yourself, but the union can advise, as regards who it is addressed to you need to find out the manager who instigated it all, but this will also entail what the actual grievance is ie is it about not getting paid, getting suspended or ? etc etc, just to add when you write out a grievance you have to be VERY SPECIFIC as to whom it's against, and what it's for, you will need to make sure you have KEY points for it to work properly and get the right result, otherwise it can backfire on you, but do get your union to explain this as it's a bit in depth to go into it all here, and again please keep us updated :)
 
maddog said:
How do I go about submitting the grievance? and to who should I address it to?
And as of this morning they've still not paid me monies owed in wages. The site is on holiday so it might be difficult to get hold of anyone, I'm going to try head office down in bedfordshire to see if that gives any joy. Then I'm seeing lawyer today if I can possibly get hold of one.
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They should have informed you very clearly who and how you should submit or start the grievance procedure, if they haven't done this then that is another point in your favour.
You should submit the grievance to the instigator of the original letter, if he is somehow involved in the case then you should send it to his boss .. If he is the man at the top? then you will have to send it to him!

Don't confuse the issues in your appeal! Sort out the original grievance regarding conduct or whatever they call it? then take up the issue of the money. It could all be done in the same meeting, but you should really sort out whatever caused this mess in the first place!

HTH
 
I've drafted letter's as advised, and in consultation with ACAS. I tried to phone the office and spoke with the manager, caught him out lying about having spoken to wages dept, I called them and spoke to the only person there yesterday, and they confirmed that no-one had been on the phone to them from my site and the manager in question certainly hadn't, when called him back (still polite and pleasant, despite fuming inside) I asked him again to confirm who he'd spoken to then told him they hadn't any recollection of speaking to him, he stuttered and stammered a bit then hung up the phone!
 
I still think you are revealing far too much in public for your own good!!
 
maddog said:
I've drafted letter's as advised, and in consultation with ACAS. I tried to phone the office and spoke with the manager, caught him out lying about having spoken to wages dept, I called them and spoke to the only person there yesterday, and they confirmed that no-one had been on the phone to them from my site and the manager in question certainly hadn't, when called him back (still polite and pleasant, despite fuming inside) I asked him again to confirm who he'd spoken to then told him they hadn't any recollection of speaking to him, he stuttered and stammered a bit then hung up the phone!
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If you can get written signed proof of this from the person in the wages dept, who your manager claimed to have spoken too is another thing that will go in your favor, i have to say they really do sound like a load of numpties with no managerial experience or regard for employment law, having said that, they probably don't know employment law :(
 
Your employer by now could be recording your every word on this forum so if you must let the whole world know about this you better be pretty damn sure your facts are correct.
You should, after an initial request on this forum for help, have confined your discussion via pm/email to those that are familiar with employment law.
 
"suspended from work Ayrshire" brings you up no 1 in Google! I think the advice above is the most sensible on this thread!
 
Hope everything works out OK for you.
I have not read all the detailed posts so apologies if this has been mentioned before, but to protect yourself 100% make sure you make a detailed note of all your telephone calls, contacts with Co, and what was said etc with dates and times.
All the best
Dave
 
awp said:
"suspended from work Ayrshire" brings you up no 1 in Google! I think the advice above is the most sensible on this thread!
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wow, that's a fair achievement for me. In a funny sense I'm not sure whether to be chuffed to be top of the internet :shrug: or affronted :$ either way whatever is going to happen will happen now.

nikonuser said:
Hope everything works out OK for you.
I have not read all the detailed posts so apologies if this has been mentioned before, but to protect yourself 100% make sure you make a detailed note of all your telephone calls, contacts with Co, and what was said etc with dates and times.
All the best
Dave
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I've been doing this since I was first suspended, digitally recording c/w time and date and verbal, un-prompted verification from whom I'm speaking with, The ball has been set in motion and as such it's time to take a deep breath sit down, buckle up and sit tight.
:whistling:

:runaway:

:exit:

I am more than 100% commited and way more than 100% sure of anything I've alleged...wouldn't want a counter claim :bonk: sometimes i've wondered if i'm right to do something or whether I should have let it go, either way there is no chance I'll be able to go back there now :nono:
 
Hi,

I have followed and read this thread with concerned interest.

1. I am concerned that you are kicking your heels on garden leave. The reason for my concern - too much time to think, formulate, fume.

2. The more time you are away from work the easier it is to start to believe that you will be glad when you are away from work permanently. But, prior to this, you were working away happily with money coming in.

3. When an individual in caught on the hop, it is quite a common thing to cast around for a sympathetic ear / opinion swell.

You have had some very good advice here along with brilliant advice i.e. zip it! Have confidence in yourself. Only you know the truth and the complete detail. Go gently. But above all things do not talk yourself into unemployment.

Trapping managers over the phone and then making them feel humiliated is very dangerous behaviour. Think about tomorrow and the family.

In your work situation - when push comes to shove - you could very well be on your own with no job and a legal battle. The weight of previous evidence is that these hearings have not gone well - so do not rush into one with the opposition armed from reading it gratis on the internet.

Good luck. Remember, quick to listen & slow to speak

Alistair
 
alistair.o said:
You have had some very good advice here along with brilliant advice i.e. zip it! Have confidence in yourself. Only you know the truth and the complete detail. Go gently. But above all things do not talk yourself into unemployment.

Trapping managers over the phone and then making them feel humiliated is very dangerous behaviour. Think about tomorrow and the family.

In your work situation - when push comes to shove - you could very well be on your own with no job and a legal battle. The weight of previous evidence is that these hearings have not gone well - so do not rush into one with the opposition armed from reading it gratis on the internet.
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Gareth S said:
Any updates on this?
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It's not a case of trapping managers, it is a case of covering my own arse. As you point out it is easy to talk yourself into unemployment.

The biggest problem is i'm damned if i do and damned if I dont. If I were to be fit to return to work on perhaps monday, in a few weeks they would find something to put me out the door, therefore if I let it all slide and say nothing I'll kick myself in a few weeks or so when I'm out the door. Thats the way these companies work always have and they aren't about to change anytime soon. If I do pursue the case through THEIR rules:rules: I'll still be out at first opportunity, it's a no win situation for me.
In all honesty I will never accept their written warning, as I do not believe it is warranted. To accept it wouild be an admission of guilt.:rules:


Gareth S said:
Any updates on this?
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THe head office have confirmed reciept of my appeal and my grievance procedure, they have assigned someone to deal with the case, so we'll just need wait and see how it goes.......to late to stop the ball rolling now. :shrug:
 
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