Surely not a Hasselblad?!

FujiLove

FujiLove

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After having used a load of different cameras and formats over the past year or so, I feel like I've finally got a solid grasp of what I enjoying using and the results I want to achieve. I love medium format, especially 6x6 and to a lesser extent 6x7. I have a strong preference for using cameras with a waist level finder, but rangefinders are okay too. So now I'm looking for two cameras:

1. A light, inexpensive, 6x6 camera for using when I'm pottering around cities and don't want to be weighed down with multiple lenses and filters, or worried too much about being overly precious with it.

I already have the perfect camera for that: my Rolleicord Vb with it's (soon to be) bright screen and CLA. Job done there.

Now the problem camera...

2. The more 'serious' camera to use when I am going out specifically to take photographs. Something I can take on holiday to places like Iceland and I'm happy to lug more equipment around.

This has to be a 6x6 camera because I 'see' that aspect much better when trying to frame. Also, I want to project slides, and my projector is 6x6. I've decided I don't want the expense and faff of finding a 6x7 projector and glass mounts. They are crazy expensive and rare.

I want to be able to use grad and other filters with this camera, so ideally it would be an SLR. Having been utterly spoiled with my Leica M3, I'd really like something that's very well put together.

You know where I'm going with this?...I look at what's available and every damn thing points towards Sweden. The problem is, I bought and sold a Bronica SQ twelve months ago because it felt awkward in the hand and I found the shutter noise a bit too much (which seems ridiculous after having owned and enjoyed using a Pentax 6x7!) So what to do? Compromise somewhere? Go for the Hassie and see if I grow to like it more than I did the SQ? Or is there some other option out there that I've missed?

Clearly, it's a nice dilemma to have [emoji3]
 
FujiLove said:
You know where I'm going with this?...I look at what's available and every damn thing points towards Sweden. The problem is, I bought and sold a Bronica SQ twelve months ago because it felt awkward in the hand and I found the shutter noise a bit too much (which seems ridiculous after having owned and enjoyed using a Pentax 6x7!) So what to do? Compromise somewhere? Go for the Hassie and see if I grow to like it more than I did the SQ? Or is there some other option out there that I've missed?
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If you didn't like the Bronica, I can't really see why you'd like the Hasselblad. Hasselblads are quirker, don't handle as well, offer worse ergonomics, and are just plain harder to use. They're beautiful though... for thrice the price.

simon ess said:
Have you tried a Bronica SQ with a grip?

I absolutely love mine.
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This.
 
How about a Kowa Six? Your requirement for 6x6 and SLR limits your options to (I think!)

Hasselblads
Bronica SQA
Bronica S2
Kowa Six
Kiev 80
Salyut C
Pentacon 6
Kiev 60
Rolleiflex SL66

Anything else would be a tlr (which you have and can't use filters as easily) or 6x4.5 like a Mamiya M645.

Edit - I've shot with the Kowa, S2, Pentacon and Kiev 80. Out of the 3 I'd go for the Kowa again although it's handling is a bit like an upright brick :0)
 
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I still have my 'Blad outfit and it will be my first choice if I decide to shoot more film.

First thing you have to do is aquire a soft button to screw into the shutter release. You won't believe the difference it will make to the handling. Secondly, learn to hold the body in your left hand, if you didn't already cotton on to that with the Bronica. Your left index finger releases the shutter while your right hand focuses, adjusts the settings and winds on. Third thing is to buy ear muffs. No big SLR is going to be quiet.

The good news is that Hasselblad is really cheap now, if you don't care about cosmetics. a 500c; 500c/m; three backs; 50, 80 and 150; together with a large Press bag and all sorts of other goodies, cost me less than £1,000 when I put it together between 2009 and 2012...

20330236580_568355c442_b.jpg
 
Sejanus Aelianus said:
Secondly, learn to hold the body in your left hand, if you didn't already cotton on to that with the Bronica. Your left index finger releases the shutter while your right hand focuses, adjusts the settings and winds on.
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Ugh, this begins to illustrate exactly why the Hasselblad system can be as painful and awkward to use as it is. This along with the small, hard, and too-close-to-the-body focusing rings of the C lenses can really make the camera uncomfortable to handle compared to the Bronica system. My 60mm C lens literally hurts my fingers to use, especially in the cold, when I'm working handheld.

In comparison, the Bronica SQ series with the speed grip is comfortable to hold, has nice big focusing rings that aren't too close to the camera body, almost all of the lenses take the same size filters, and, very important to me, the Bronica focusing screens are much easier to focus than the Hasselblad screens.
 
stevelmx5 said:
How about a Kowa Six? Your requirement for 6x6 and SLR limits your options to (I think!)

Hasselblads
Bronica SQA
Bronica S2
Kowa Six
Kiev 80
Salyut C
Pentacon 6
Kiev 60
Rolleiflex SL66

Anything else would be a tlr (which you have and can't use filters as easily) or 6x4.5 like a Mamiya M645.

Edit - I've shot with the Kowa, S2, Pentacon and Kiev 80. Out of the 3 I'd go for the Kowa again although it's handling is a bit like an upright brick :0)
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A much more comprehensive list than mine. I have no idea about the S2 or Kowa, but I think I discounted a couple of the others either due to their weight or build quality. I'll take another look at some of these. Thanks for the heads-up.
 
skysh4rk said:
Ugh, this begins to illustrate exactly why the Hasselblad system can be as painful and awkward to use as it is. This along with the small, hard, and too-close-to-the-body focusing rings of the C lenses can really make the camera uncomfortable to handle compared to the Bronica system. My 60mm C lens literally hurts my fingers to use, especially in the cold, when I'm working handheld.

In comparison, the Bronica SQ series with the speed grip is comfortable to hold, has nice big focusing rings that aren't too close to the camera body, almost all of the lenses take the same size filters, and, very important to me, the Bronica focusing screens are much easier to focus than the Hasselblad screens.
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Not entirely sure, but I think the Hasselblads I looked at had the CF lenses. The ones that look relatively modern, certainly a lot like the SQ lenses I had.

The screen brightness/quality is not something I had considered. I stupidly assumed they would be great on the Hasselblad. Schoolboy error. How do the newer Acute matte screens compare to those on the SQ?

Could be a deal breaker for me as I do appreciate a bright screen.
 
Sejanus Aelianus said:
I still have my 'Blad outfit and it will be my first choice if I decide to shoot more film.

First thing you have to do is aquire a soft button to screw into the shutter release. You won't believe the difference it will make to the handling. Secondly, learn to hold the body in your left hand, if you didn't already cotton on to that with the Bronica. Your left index finger releases the shutter while your right hand focuses, adjusts the settings and winds on. Third thing is to buy ear muffs. No big SLR is going to be quiet.

The good news is that Hasselblad is really cheap now, if you don't care about cosmetics. a 500c; 500c/m; three backs; 50, 80 and 150; together with a large Press bag and all sorts of other goodies, cost me less than £1,000 when I put it together between 2009 and 2012...

20330236580_568355c442_b.jpg
Click to expand...

I don't think you would pay that today. The backs seem to go for £150 each in good condition.

Also, I think that's the opposite way I tried to use the SQ. I was focusing with my left hand, operating the shutter with my right...which seems silly now I think about it as I was doing an awkward shuffle to wind the film.

Makes me think I probably didn't give the old girl a chance.
 
Ye
skysh4rk said:
In comparison, the Bronica SQ series with the speed grip is comfortable to hold, has nice big focusing rings that aren't too close to the camera body, almost all of the lenses take the same size filters, and, very important to me, the Bronica focusing screens are much easier to focus than the Hasselblad screens.
Click to expand...

It's all very personal. I went from Hasselblad to Bronica and back again for exactly the reasons you've given, only they worked in the opposite direction for me. Neither of us is right or wrong, just different. I do find the 'Blad screens suit my eyesight but your mileage may well vary.
 
The SQ-A requires a battery, and defaults to a single shutter speed (1/500?) without it. But the 500CM is fully mechanical; no battery at all. Correct?
 
I love my 500CM. It's a beast of a camera. Very well engineered and the Zeiss lenses render lovely in my opinion.

A lot of people rate the Bronica. Either would be a good option I think, but I would edge towards the Blad. They have their quirks but once you look through the ground glass (especially if it's an acute matte) and hear the thud of the shutter, it all falls into place :)
 
FujiLove said:
I don't think you would pay that today. The backs seem to go for £150 each in good condition.

Also, I think that's the opposite way I tried to use the SQ. I was focusing with my left hand, operating the shutter with my right...which seems silly now I think about it as I was doing an awkward shuffle to wind the film.

Makes me think I probably didn't give the old girl a chance.
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I believe the Hasselblad manual encourages the use of left hand to cradle, right hand to focus, and using my 500C/M this way feels comfortable and stable. The backs can be pricey (although I sold one on TP not too long ago for far less than the stated £150), but a basic C/M and 80mm lens shouldn't cost more than £600. Yes, you may buy it and it turns out not to be to your tastes, but they hold their value immensely well.

If you can afford to scratch that itch, go for it. There's only so much internet reviews, YouTube videos and forum anecdotes can do to quench that thirst.
 
I also love my 500cm. It was a great companion in Iceland. Alas, it has now jammed and needs a CLA to fix. :(
 
FujiLove said:
Not entirely sure, but I think the Hasselblads I looked at had the CF lenses. The ones that look relatively modern, certainly a lot like the SQ lenses I had.

The screen brightness/quality is not something I had considered. I stupidly assumed they would be great on the Hasselblad. Schoolboy error. How do the newer Acute matte screens compare to those on the SQ?

Could be a deal breaker for me as I do appreciate a bright screen.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, brightness does not necessarily make focusing easier.

I have an Acute Matte D screen in my Hasselblad, which is easily the brightest screen I've ever seen by far and those screens can be great for composing, but it's definitely nowhere as easy to focus as the stock Bronica screen, as the Acute Matte lacks contrast and everything looks in focus. The Bronica screens strike a great balance between brightness and contrast and have the best screens I've ever used for accurately achieving focus.

FujiLove said:
The SQ-A requires a battery, and defaults to a single shutter speed (1/500?) without it. But the 500CM is fully mechanical; no battery at all. Correct?
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Basically, yes. The SQ lenses also feature a T-exposure setting that requires no battery power, although that is usually employed for long exposures (e.g., >1 sec).
 
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This thread is closely following my own thoughts. Being pulled one way by common sense and the other by emotions. I have to say, less toward the emotional side right now. I know it's a poor yardstick, but browsing Flickr and looking through random SQ and Hasselblad V photos...the Bronica's photographs are right up there and dare I say, a touch ahead. Of course, they are probably just better photographers, better scanner operators etc.
 
skysh4rk said:
Unfortunately, brightness does not necessarily make focusing easier.

I have an Acute Matte D screen in my Hasselblad, which is easily the brightest screen I've ever seen by far and those screens can be great for composing, but it's definitely nowhere as easy to focus as the stock Bronica screen, as the Acute Matte lacks contrast and everything looks in focus. The Bronica screens strike a great balance between brightness and contrast and have the best screens I've ever used for accurately achieving focus.



Basically, yes. The SQ lenses also feature a T-exposure setting that requires no battery power, although that is usually employed for long exposures (e.g., >1 sec).
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Interesting. I really need to get to a shop and handle them in person. Trying to imagine the effect is really hard!
 
gazmorton2000 said:
I also love my 500cm. It was a great companion in Iceland. Alas, it has now jammed and needs a CLA to fix. :(
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This reminds me: I assume Hasselblad repair is readily available but costly? What about Bronica? Or is it simply cheaper to buy a new body etc?
 
FujiLove said:
This thread is closely following my own thoughts. Being pulled one way by common sense and the other by emotions. I have to say, less toward the emotional side right now. I know it's a poor yardstick, but browsing Flickr and looking through random SQ and Hasselblad V photos...the Bronica's photographs are right up there and dare I say, a touch ahead. Of course, they are probably just better photographers, better scanner operators etc.
Click to expand...

Having used both systems, I can't really say I see anything different in the results. To be honest, the systems are more alike than they are different. For me, the only reason that the differences even become worth discussing is because the Hasselblad system inexplicably costs several times as much as an equivalent Bronica system.

Yes, some will say that you could get a Hasselblad for maybe twice the cost of a Bronica, but the Hasselblad will be 20 years older than the Bronica in those cases and won't handle nearly as well.

Personally, I'm in the Hasselblad system for the 110mm f/2 lens and the prospect of potentially owning a Flexbody in the future, which are two things that the Bronica system simply can't offer. If I were only using the standard leaf shutter lenses, then I really couldn't justify the cost for the Hasselblad system, as there is little to gain besides headaches. I'd rather have a Bronica and use the spare money on a ticket to Japan.

FujiLove said:
This reminds me: I assume Hasselblad repair is readily available but costly? What about Bronica? Or is it simply cheaper to buy a new body etc?
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I've used MW to repair bodies and lenses for both the Bronica SQ and Hasselblad V systems.
 
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There are a few well used 500CM body & lens outfits available for around £500-£600 (eBay, Ffordes), but very few SQA systems. The ones I have found aren't much cheaper. The price has certainly crept up since I bought my SQ, 80mm & 50mm for £350 a year or so ago.
 
I was looking for a change of bulky box shooting not so long back.
But in truth, I don't miss TTL for grads and filters at all, although I have comprehensive bulky box kit I can't remember the last time I used it.
If I ever use it again, (and that is by no means likely) it'll be for the close focusing advantage.
So anyway, I did my research whilst having this brainfart bulky box change GAS apparition and I decided there was a huge and potentially bargain laden market of P6 mount glass, so an Exacta 66 was on my shopping list for a while till I came to my senses, I believe Arax still make a box 6x6 with p6 mount absolutely brand new, dunno what the sketch is with that though.

edit..nobody has mentioned the Rollei 600# series yet neither..
 
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FujiLove said:
There are a few well used 500CM body & lens outfits available for around £500-£600 (eBay, Ffordes), but very few SQA systems. The ones I have found aren't much cheaper. The price has certainly crept up since I bought my SQ, 80mm & 50mm for £350 a year or so ago.
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There was a near mint condition SQ-A that sold for £239 recently from a dealer (http://www.worldwidecameraexchange.co.uk/bronica-sqa-camera-complete-almost-mint.html), so there are still some good deals out there on Bronica equipment. A Hasselblad in that sort of condition and of similar age would cost at least three times that price, if not four.
 
joxby said:
I was looking for a change of bulky box shooting not so long back.
But in truth, I don't miss TTL for grads and filters at all, although I have comprehensive bulky box kit I can't remember the last time I used it.
If I ever use it again, (and that is by no means likely) it'll be for the close focusing advantage.
So anyway, I did my research whilst having this brainfart bulky box change GAS apparition and I decided there was a huge and potentially bargain laden market of P6 mount glass, so an Exacta 66 was on my shopping list for a while till I came to my senses, I believe Arax still make a box 6x6 with p6 mount absolutely brand new, dunno what the sketch is with that though.

edit..nobody has mentioned the Rollei 600# series yet neither..
Click to expand...

Ah yes, Rollei stuff I do like a lot. The thing is, whenever you read anything about their SLR equipment, you end up with a long list of why-not-to-buy. Heavy, unreliable, but most of all, simply not as good as Hasselblad. Of course, it's all Internet chatter and not picture making fun, but it does tend to put me off.
 
FujiLove said:
Ah yes, Rollei stuff I do like a lot. The thing is, whenever you read anything about their SLR equipment, you end up with a long list of why-not-to-buy. Heavy, unreliable, but most of all, simply not as good as Hasselblad. Of course, it's all Internet chatter and not picture making fun, but it does tend to put me off.
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Sometimes those SLX/600X series Rollies can go for relatively decent prices (e.g., £200–£400) and I've almost jumped at them myself. There are some really cool features to that system, such as leaf shutter lenses with faster shutter speeds (up to 1/1000s), as well as some large aperture leaf-shutter lenses (e.g., 80mm f/2 and 110mm f/2). Very electronic though and quite prone to failure apparently with the batteries being a particularly prickly issue.

What about the Rollie SL66 system? I've considered making a move for one of those as well. The tilt feature and close focusing capabilities being a particular draw and they're mechanical like the Hasselblad V series:
 
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The Rollei SLRs and the Bronica S2A look wonderful, particularly the SL66 which has incredible macro and shift abilities: retro mounted lens AND bellows! If I wanted something for still life or an additional camera, they would be on my list (definitely one for the future). For now they don't fit what i want to do. I've had a look at the Rollei 6000 series but I don't want something that's electronic/automated, so I'm ruling those out.

The SQ and Hasselblad are still the only ones that seem to fit. I have to say, the only thing that's putting me off the Bronica is the way it looks. It seems extremely superficial, but I do enjoy cameras simply for what they are. One of the reasons I loved my M3 although it didn't produce anything different from a cheap Japanese SLR. I need to look at my budget and see whether the 'ownership satisfaction' of owning the Hasselblad is worth the huge extra cost.
 
Ruffmeister said:
It sounds like if you got the SQ, you'd have only wished you scratched the Hasselblad itch. It does cost more so you need to weight that up. If you're used to the build of the M3, then the Blad won't disappoint.
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I'm heading into town tomorrow, so I'll try and handle a Hasselblad, and see how I feel about it after that.
Really hoping I hate them ;)
 
Ruffmeister said:
By tomorrow eve you'll have a Hasselblad then :LOL:
Be curious to know what you think. I can get that they aren't for everyone.
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Strangely it's the handIing that puts me off, as I couldn't get on with the SQ...hence the Pentax 6x7, which I find much nicer to hold and operate. I guess what I really need is a Pentax 6x6 :-)
 
FujiLove said:
Strangely it's the handIing that puts me off, as I couldn't get on with the SQ...hence the Pentax 6x7, which I find much nicer to hold and operate. I guess what I really need is a Pentax 6x6 :)
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There's always the Mamiya 6 (the new, very expensive one, not the old, often quite cheap one) :)
 
Sejanus Aelianus said:
There's always the Mamiya 6 (the new, very expensive one, not the old, often quite cheap one) :)
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Yes, the big Mamiyas are really nice. I got a great deal on a 7ii not long ago, and it's a joy to use. The comfiest camera I've ever held, and a better viewfinder than my old M3.

The M6 is very nice and I did have a good look at them. I was a little put off by the reports of the dodgy winding mechanism and I also wondered about the durability of the bellows. I imagine both issues are nothing but the usual Internet exaggeration.

The bigger issue with the M6 is that it would be tough to use grad filters, which is something I want to do now I'm shooting slides. I know it is possible with rangefinders, but seems to make life quite difficult. Hence the search for an SLR.
 
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