Supermarket parking fines?

[matt2martin]

NO you are not. A contract can not be accepted by silence. You have to actively acknowledge acceptance of a contract to enter in to it.

I'll give you another ridiculous example to show my point. If I put a sign up on the front of my house saying "If you post anything through my letterbox then I will shoot and kill you". Do you think that sign then makes it legal for me to shoot my postman when he delivers the mail? No it doesn't. Just because you put a sign up warning people you are going to do something, it doesn't mean you are still allowed to do it.

Technically, if there are terms that are clearly posted you are entering into a contract by parking, but just as you cannot legally kill the post man the car park operator cannot legally issue a fine.

 

[Kaouthia]

This was all so much simpler when I lived in Florida. All disabled bays, whether public or on private property were governed by local law enforcement (in fact, on private property, I believe you had to apply to get official signs for disabled bays). If I went to the supermarket and saw somebody without a badge parking in a disabled spot, we just told a cop and they had them towed.

I didn't have a disabled badge, but the person I was living with did, and we regularly called police over (they were always nearby in the donut shop ) to people parking illegally in the disabled parking spaces, where they were given tickets or towed.

Either way, enforcable or not, anybody who parks in a disabled spot that isn't disabled deserves anything that may happen to them or their car.

 

[-Rob-]

Technically, if there are terms that are clearly posted you are entering into a contract by parking, but just as you cannot legally kill the post man the car park operator cannot legally issue a fine.

No you are not. You are being warned of the terms of parking there but you are not entering in to a contract with the land owner.

 

[Kaouthia]

No you are not. You are being warned of the terms of parking there but you are not entering in to a contract with the land owner.

That ain't what they said on "Don't get screwed" the other week.

 

[-Rob-]

Either way, enforcable or not, anybody who parks in a disabled spot that isn't disabled deserves anything that may happen to them or their car.

Yet another ridiculous statement. Slight over reaction for what is actually a very minor 'offence' don't you think?

 

[Kaouthia]

How is it a ridiculous statement? It might be minor to you if you regularly park in disabled bays because you can't be arsed walking an extra 50 yards, but it might not be so minor to the person that legitimately requires that bay because that extra 50 yards could cause them agony or discomfort.

 

[-Rob-]

How is it a ridiculous statement? It might be minor to you if you regularly park in disabled bays because you can't be arsed walking an extra 50 yards, but it might not be so minor to the person that legitimately requires that bay because that extra 50 yards could cause them agony or discomfort.

Actually if you check back to Post 25 then you'll see I stated that I am able bodied yet never use disabled spaces and I don't agree with anyone that does incorrectly use them. However, just because we both agree it is wrong that anyone should be able to take any action they like against the people that do park there. Like it or not, it is a minor 'offence' and not one that is worthy of a £50.

 

[matt2martin]

This was all so much simpler when I lived in Florida. All disabled bays, whether public or on private property were governed by local law enforcement (in fact, on private property, I believe you had to apply to get official signs for disabled bays). If I went to the supermarket and saw somebody without a badge parking in a disabled spot, we just told a cop and they had them towed.

I didn't have a disabled badge, but the person I was living with did, and we regularly called police over (they were always nearby in the donut shop ) to people parking illegally in the disabled parking spaces, where they were given tickets or towed.

That sounds like a great idea, it's a shame we don't do something similar over here.

Either way, enforcable or not, anybody who parks in a disabled spot that isn't disabled deserves anything that may happen to them or their car.

I wouldn't go quite that far, but people who do that are scum and a legal way to hold them to account for their actions should be in place but unfortunately quite often isn't.

 

[Kaouthia]

So, what is it worthy of? It's a minor offense where it's ok for people to say "stick your disabled pass where the sun don't shine, *** I'm parking wherever I want"?

That's basically the impression you're giving, whether you do it yourself or not.

 

[dolomitefan]

I think that whilst many car parks do appear to have way more disabled spaces than will ever be needed at once they are there for use by blue badge holders only. I generally prefer to park as far away as possible in a car park away from other motorists. It might mean a little longer walk, maybe even getting wet but it has significantly reduced my chances of a car park incident over the years. Parking bays are too narrow (or do I mean cars are too big) to be parked up next to a big MPV when some little oik slams the door into the side of my car so I try to choose places where people are less likely to park next to me at all.

 

[matt2martin]

No you are not. You are being warned of the terms of parking there but you are not entering in to a contract with the land owner.

I'm afraid I have to disagree, the act of parking creates an inferred contract on the specified terms.

I am not a lawyer, but these people are http://www.gillhams.com/dictionary/538.cfm.

 

[Kaouthia]

I'm afraid I have to disagree, the act of parking creates an inferred contract on the specified terms.

Exactly, it's like all the software you buy for your PC where the little paper sleeve containing the DVD has a sticker over the opening saying "By breaking this seal you are agreeing to the terms and conditions, etc, etc" or words to that effect.

 

[matt2martin]

Exactly, it's like all the software you buy for your PC where the little paper sleeve containing the DVD has a sticker over the opening saying "By breaking this seal you are agreeing to the terms and conditions, etc, etc" or words to that effect.

As a side note, that would only be valid if you had access to the terms and conditions at the time you were opening the sleeve. If the only copy of the T&C's is on the DVD (which isn't unusual these days) that label isn't binding, providing you take action to notify the other party in a reasonable time-frame and do not use the software.

 

[Steven001]

Yes you have to pay for it. I work in ASDA (for the time being) and on certain days we have car park attendants in giving fines to those who park in disabled spaces without a badge on display. If you don't pay it within the given time, I think the fine increases.

It's simple, if you're not disabled don't park in the spaces.

 

[Splog]

Lots of different opinions here To be clear I didn't condone the parking and actually said "good, you deserve it" but it got me thinking about how these companies operate and doubt that the so called fine would be enforceable? also, how would they know if she was disabled or not? So, this got me thinking perhaps this all about not displaying a badge! I'm sure there are many disabled people that don't have cars or badges, how can Asda know if a passenger is not disabled? Should these people not have the right to use these parking spaces too!

 

[gumbo-67]

do we know if the lady was disabled or not? i know it is more than likly not. but you never know.. if she is not then she should pay up and shut up moaning she should not have parked there

 

[Splog]

do we know if the lady was disabled or not? i know it is more than likly not. but you never know.. if she is not then she should pay up and shut up moaning she should not have parked there

She is not disabled at all!

 

[-Rob-]

So, what is it worthy of? It's a minor offense where it's ok for people to say "stick your disabled pass where the sun don't shine, *** I'm parking wherever I want"?

So if parking in a disabled space isn't a minor offence then what do you class as a minor offence? Or are you trying to say that there is no such thing as a minor offence. Should we introduce the death penalty for absolutely every offence ever commited by anyone?

You seem to live in a very black and white world.

 

[matt2martin]

I'm sure there are many disabled people that don't have cars or badges, how can Asda know if a passenger is not disabled? Should these people not have the right to use these parking spaces too!

Blue badges are issued to the person (who may or may not have their own car) and not tied to a specific car so they are transferable between vehicles if required. This solves one problem but on occasion has led to people borrowing them off relatives/partners or selling them on.

 

[Steven001]

Lots of different opinions here To be clear I didn't condone the parking and actually said "good, you deserve it" but it got me thinking about how these companies operate and doubt that the so called fine would be enforceable? also, how would they know if she was disabled or not? So, this got me thinking perhaps this all about not displaying a badge! I'm sure there are many disabled people that don't have cars or badges, how can Asda know if a passenger is not disabled? Should these people not have the right to use these parking spaces too!

Because to park in the disabled parking you're supposed to have a disabled badge on display, they are intended for severely disabled people. I suppose you can be disabled and park in the space, but if you don't own a blue badge you're going against the regulations and may receive a fine (I think).

 

[-Rob-]

This thread seems to have gone totally off topic. I thought the original post was actually asking about whether a supermarket has the legal right to issue a parking fine. We all agree that able bodied people parking in a disabled space is wrong. The question is to what level can a supermarket act without bringing in the authorisities.

 

[Kaouthia]

So if parking in a disabled space isn't a minor offence then what do you class as a minor offence? Or are you trying to say that there is no such thing as a minor offence. Should we introduce the death penalty for absolutely every offence ever commited by anyone?

You seem to live in a very black and white world.

Where did I say it wasn't a minor offense? And there's no need to take the ****. I was not talking about the death penalty for people parking in disabled spots or anything even close to that.

What I said was that you're implying that such an offense does not require some form of punishment or consequence. I happen to disagree, otherwise, what the hell is the point of having disable spots to begin with? I think the punishment should be of suitable level for the crime/offense. I don't think a 50 quid parking fine for being a **** and parking in a disabled spot when you're not disabled is unreasonable.

 

[-Rob-]

I have not been implying anything. You stated that people who incorrectly park in disabled spaces deserve anything that happens to them or their vehicle. I think there is more of an implication in your statement than in what I've said. I have clearly stated that parking in the spaces is wrong and shouldn't be done but my issue is with private companies taking the law in to their own hands.

 

[gumbo-67]

She is not disabled at all!

in that case she stop moaning about it and pay it...

 

[Kaouthia]

I have not been implying anything.

Intentionally implied or not, that's the way it came across.

You stated that people who incorrectly park in disabled spaces deserve anything that happens to them or their vehicle. I think there is more of an implication in your statement than in what I've said.

Yes, I do think that they deserve to receive a fine, or be towed away. What does that imply?

I have clearly stated that parking in the spaces is wrong and shouldn't be done but my issue is with private companies taking the law in to their own hands.

It's their property, it's called contract law. If you don't like that they can do this, park on the street or boycott the store.

 

[-Rob-]

Yes, I do think that they deserve to receive a fine, or be towed away. What does that imply?

That implies that you have thought about what you originally wrote, thought about it, decided it was a little harsh so you've re-worded it to tone it down a bit.

It's their property, it's called contract law. If you don't like that they can do this, park on the street or boycott the store.

Actually I park legally in the carpark so it's not an issue for me but your statement of "it's their property, it's called contract law" implies all kind of things. Contract law does not allow you to do whatever you want. You can't write in to a contract that it's OK to do something illegal. I don't know if it is legal for a supermarket to issue a fine or not but my opinion is that it shouldn't be legal. They should only be allowed to report the offence to the authorities who should be responsible for issuing a 'reasonable' fine.

 

[matt2martin]

If the supermarket had done it properly and employed a licensed, regulated clamping company to carry out enforcement it would be different and then she would have had to paid the release fee.

The problem is that the supermarket, or their appointed parking company, is trying to do enforcement on the cheap by issuing penalties that it doesn't have the legal right to do and that are not enforceable in court, hoping enough people don't know the legalities of the situation and pay up.

See the SIA website for more.

 

[ChrisGaskin]

Blue badges are issued to the person (who may or may not have their own car) and not tied to a specific car so they are transferable between vehicles if required.

exactly...... like the aa adverts used to say: your the member, not the car......


in my case its my daughter, she has the blue badge, but the wide parking space is needed for her wheel chair, i couldnt give a hoot how close to the door it is....
also if we are all in the car, my wife will run in and we stay in the car, but il park in a normal space cos caitlin isnt getting out so we dont need the extra space...... thats another bug bear of mine, misuse of a blue badge.... lending it out and the like....grrrr

 

[Kaouthia]

That implies that you have thought about what you originally wrote, thought about it, decided it was a little harsh so you've re-worded it to tone it down a bit.

If you feel thats' what it implied to you then that's your right. "Whatever happens to them or their car" to me meant the fines or towing that had previously been mentioned. If you feel that I meant they should form a firing squad in the car park and crush the car, then you can think I meant that, doesn't bother me.

You can't write in to a contract that it's OK to do something illegal. I don't know if it is legal for a supermarket to issue a fine or not but my opinion is that it shouldn't be legal. They should only be allowed to report the offence to the authorities who should be responsible for issuing a 'reasonable' fine.

You don't know if it's legal or not, but they shouldn't do it because it's illegal? Not sure I follow there. It may not be easily enforceable, but it's certainly not illegal.

They are the terms and conditions set forth for those that wish to park in their car park. You stated you "park legally in the carpark" which means you acknowledge and understand these terms and are abiding by them.

This is what the whole issue was on "Don't Get Screwed" the other week. The disabled sign was obscured and mostly hidden, and the private landowner would have no recourse, the "contract" was null & void. It's their responsibility to make sure the signs are easily viewed and readable from the area they're supposed to cover. In which case you're agreeing to the terms and conditions and have accepted those terms by where you park your vehicle.

The signs should also include the consequences of what will happen if you choose to break the terms of the contract you have previously agreed to (assuming the sign is visible) by parking in the car park.

But, I'm done with this topic. It's just going around in circles.

Short version : anybody who isn't disabled and parks in a disabled spot is a **** and deserves to be fined, clamped or towed.

 

[Hacker]

About time people who abuse disabled parking spots are fined in places such as Asda and other retailers.

Yes, I am disabled and often see cars parked in my local supermarket's disabled bays who do not display a blue badge.

Gary

I am able bodied, so would never park in a disabled bay, they are there for a very good reason ... about time the supermarkets started issuing fines to the inconsiderate and selfish able bodied people who do.

I'm quite surprised at how many here are saying that it isn't enforceable by law, don't bother paying it, it's exdtortion etc... What about the moral angle. Personally, as a blue badge holder myself, I'm sick of not being able to park at the supermarket because of the lazy sods who park in them to use the cash machine. It's not just about he distance we have to walk, it's also about the width of the spaces. I have to open my door fully to be able to get in and out of my car.

Maybe the question for some is not how you can get away without paying but should you.

*snip* I don't think a 50 quid parking fine for being a **** and parking in a disabled spot when you're not disabled is unreasonable.

I agree with all of the above. Able bodied people parking is disabled bays is something that really ****es me off because it is down to lazyness and lack of respect for others.

Actually if you check back to Post 25 then you'll see I stated that I am able bodied yet never use disabled spaces and I don't agree with anyone that does incorrectly use them. However, just because we both agree it is wrong that anyone should be able to take any action they like against the people that do park there. Like it or not, it is a minor 'offence' and not one that is worthy of a £50.

It's called deterrent and even if it is a minor offence it warrants the fine. Just out of interest what punishment would you recommend?

 

[onomatopoeia]

It's called deterrent and even if it is a minor offence it warrants the fine. Just out of interest what punishment would you recommend?

Clamp / tow by an SIA register clamper. Because that is legally enforcable where a supermarket "fine" isn't and it will make the miscreant think more carefully about where they park in future.

 

[-Rob-]

You don't know if it's legal or not, but they shouldn't do it because it's illegal?

Try reading my post again and take note of the context and punctuation and you might realise that I didn't actually write whatever it is you thought you read.

 

[-Rob-]

It's called deterrent and even if it is a minor offence it warrants the fine. Just out of interest what punishment would you recommend?

I think if there is to be a fine it should be issued by a licenced authority once they have taken the relevant details of the offence and recorded evidence of it in case the matter is taken to court. A supermarket being allowed to pluck an arbitary figure out of the air seems too much like vigilantism for me.

 

[bobsbabes]

it drives me mad and i am able bodied
do wish my dad would ask for a blue badge though so i can get closer for his benefit iyswim

 

[cambsno]

I think one of the main frustrations is the regulations that state that a certain percentage of spaces HAVE to be allocated to blue badge holders. We have all seen it, the car park is rammed and there seems to be a sea of disabled bays empty. Maybe it is time for smart bays, where during certain times some spaces can be changed back to 'regular' bays. If there are 30 blue badge spaces free, then 10 or 15 could probably be changed, what are the chances of 30 blue badge holders turning up at once?

In terms of avoiding the fine. Remember that the space needs to be correctly marked as a disabled bay. That includes signs, size and even the colour paint that the bay is marked with. If one of these things is not correct then it is not legally a disabled bay.

I do not condone parking in a disabled bay. I think people are too lazy to walk even 20 metres more to park in a regular bay but sometimes when there are no bays to park in what is the alternative?

Makes me laugh when I see my local gym has disabled spaces... Whats the point in that!!!

In a supermarket though, thats a different matter, serves her right!

 

[boyfalldown]

I agree with all of the above. Able bodied people parking is disabled bays is something that really ****es me off because it is down to lazyness and lack of respect for others.



It's called deterrent and even if it is a minor offence it warrants the fine. Just out of interest what punishment would you recommend?

Your sentiments are right Colin, the difficulty is its not a fine, its an invoice issued by a company who has as much weight as if I was to issue one through Hugh Miller Photography.

It should be a proper fine, issued by a court or local authority. In this case I think the OP should donate the amount to a disabled charity, but I don't see a private company profiting from this helps anyone.

Cheers

Hugh

 

[Chaz Photos]

Parking in disabled bay is a bug of mine You see the big 4x4 park there as the bays are bigger I think if you want that bay do you want the disability as well fine the lot of them too lazy to walk a few years.. it the same with the parent with child ones there not meant for teenage kid but toddles and having to get them into a pushchair.

 

[Chaz Photos]

Your sentiments are right Colin, the difficulty is its not a fine, its an invoice issued by a company who has as much weight as if I was to issue one through Hugh Miller Photography.

It should be a proper fine, issued by a court or local authority. In this case I think the OP should donate the amount to a disabled charity, but I don't see a private company profiting from this helps anyone.

Cheers

Hugh

But you are on privet property and have to abide to there rules if it is signed then you have to abide to it.

 

[boyfalldown]

But you are on privet property and have to abide to there rules if it is signed then you have to abide to it.

you assume they are signed properly, and the only option they have is to ask you to leave - what they can't do is pretend an invoice is a fine (as somebody tried to do with me) or imply you've agreed to a contract when the terms of that contract are illegal in themselves.

BTW have you been on the sauce

 

[-Rob-]

But you are on privet property and have to abide to there rules if it is signed then you have to abide to it.

NOTICE
Anyone posting in this thread will be issued with a fine of £49.99 which must be paid to -Rob- within 24 hours of the post being made. Anyone wishing to post without the risk of being presented with a fine must do so in the Photo Critique section.​