Studio Photography.....

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Ok, firstly apologies for deleting the original post so hastily.

Now, my wonderings about studio photography. Since deciding that I must try harder with my people photography, I have been shooting on location a lot. With the weather turning worse and the evenings getting darker more quickly, I have started to look at the option of shooting studio based images. Now, I have dabbled in the past (badly, oh so badly) and thus found it pretty boring. But then I look at photos either on here by people like Hugh, with his awesome ballet shoots (just one example, there are many more), and some of the high end pros that I follow such as Zack Arias and Joe McNally (again there are many more) and they all produce stunning, not boring, really engaging studio work. I would love to try but all the avenues just seem far too expensive, as well as the fact that I don't really know where to begin.

Local studio hire starts at around £50 for 2 hours but then who to shoot? I have exhausted my list of family and friends and been told 'no' on countless occasions, which does lead me to believe that my work is pretty poor standard. There's the self confidence issue again. So then I could hire a model, possibly at the same cost of the studio. So there we are up to £100 for 2 hours, where I can experiment and play with lighting etc. But then what? I can't expect to achieve great shots in one session and I can't constantly afford to pay that sort of money out as often as I would either like to or need to to see significant improvements.

I really feel a bit lost with it all and would welcome any advice people can give me who have been in a similar situation. :)
 
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I want my 30 seconds back.
 
What did you expect?
 
Sorry folks. Typed a long post with some general wonderings and questions on it and when 24 hours had passed and I'd had not a single response I deleted it. Apologies.

The frustrating thing is, the people who have replied now are some of the ones who I could have counted on for honest, to the point answers or suggestions.
 
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Ok, I am not an idiot at all. So please allow me to type my original post again. I over reacted a little by deleting it so quickly. Perhaps I was having a bad day. I can only apologise.
 
Decide on a look or image you want to achieve and then design how you're going to create it. 90% of the work will be done outside of the studio in building the image from an idea to a reality. You should already have an idea where the model will go, the lights placed, settings use etc. before you turn up. If you just turn up to a studio with a camera in hand, a model waiting and a studio lit up but no idea when you want at the end it isn't going to go well.

Choose images or work of others that excite you and you'd like to produce similar, de-construct and reconstruct. Don't choose ones that are unattainable because you'll fail before you even start.

If you can present a strong case for your idea or concept to the same family members who previously said no you might get a yes which will save hiring a model. Show them images that you're trying to recreate and say "look this is awesome, i want you to be a apart of it", rather than say "can i take some photos of you, no idea what i'm doing and no idea what photos i'm going to take but honestly it'll be awesome...".

"I can't expect to achieve great shots in one session"

Yes you can, you just need to plan for it.
 
gazmorton2000 said:
Ok, firstly apologies for deleting the original post so hastily.

Now, my wonderings about studio photography. Since deciding that I must try harder with my people photography, I have been shooting on location a lot. With the weather turning worse and the evenings getting darker more quickly, I have started to look at the option of shooting studio based images. Now, I have dabbled in the past (badly, oh so badly) and thus found it pretty boring. But then I look at photos either on here by people like Hugh, with his awesome ballet shoots (just one example, there are many more), and some of the high end pros that I follow such as Zack Arias and Joe McNally (again there are many more) and they all produce stunning, not boring, really engaging studio work. I would love to try but all the avenues just seem far too expensive, as well as the fact that I don't really know where to begin.

Local studio hire starts at around £50 for 2 hours but then who to shoot? I have exhausted my list of family and friends and been told 'no' on countless occasions, which does lead me to believe that my work is pretty poor standard. There's the self confidence issue again. So then I could hire a model, possibly at the same cost of the studio. So there we are up to £100 for 2 hours, where I can experiment and play with lighting etc. But then what? I can't expect to achieve great shots in one session and I can't constantly afford to pay that sort of money out as often as I would either like to or need to to see significant improvements.

I really feel a bit lost with it all and would welcome any advice people can give me who have been in a similar situation. :)
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Why do you not start with indoor photography at home? Then you do not have to pay for the cost of a studio. I would start with a window and a reflector card, seeing what results you can get there.

Studio photography isn't about expensive rental spaces and budget breaking lights, it's about learning to manipulate light. There is little point in playing with studio lights if you cannot manipulate daylight yet.

Then perhaps step up. Buy a single head and a couple of brollies. You could spend a year shooting every day with a light, a silver brolly and a white brolly, and a couple of bits of white or silver card and get a different result every day. In your living room. Then when you are ready, buy a second light. Perhaps a beauty dish or a soft box. To create new shapes that you haven't created again.

I learnt to use light by shooting countless self portraits. I think in total I have around 8000 RAW files of myself from a particular intense year where I was trying to learn. When I started showing what I could do to models from those shots, I found they started to get interested in working with me.
 
I've not done much studio work (only what was required when studying degree foundation and HND a few years ago) but it's something I'm looking to try.

When I can free up the funds, I'll be ordering a one light setup from lencarta and getting the accessories such as reflector and soft box from ebay - at my last calculation, it was under £300 total - similar kits come up quite often in the classifieds though and, if you can afford it, their 2 light setup minus the extras like triggers (but including umbrellas) is £299.

Places like ModelMayhem allow you to work with models on a time for CD basis that you could try or even use yourself whilst you're learning - again, lots of people doing that on here.

You can also google image "one studio light setup" or "two studio light setup" etc and get results like this https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=3 studio light setup&client=firefox-a&hs=Dh&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=cAKOUpvgJMSShgfRtoGgDg&ved=0CDEQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=638#q=2 studio light setup&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch which you can then try out, see how it looks and move a light or two about to see what happens

Or find photos you like the look off, stick a link on here and ask one of the experienced members how they thing you could recreate similar lighting.

Once you've got the basics down, you can start gathering ideas for the innovative, exciting shoots you want to do.

I don't know if that would help you but I'm in a similar position to you and I decided that buying the beginnings of a lighting kit would be more financially viable than studio hire and the like - it's mine to use as often as I please and, if I don't get on with it, I can sell it on with no huge loss.
 
Thanks for your replies. I guess I left a little info from my original post out of the new, edited version. I have a Canon flash and trigger which can be used off camera already. Also a softbox, umbrella and stand. So I have the essentials. I am not totally new to it but as I said, my previous results were all pretty poor and as a result, have all been deleted. So I have nothing to show to illustrate. My experience with TF is not so good either. I did a shoot with someone recently and delivered the images in my usual look etc, only to have them re edited/instagrammed and stuck on FB. I know this happens but it puts me off wanting to do more of it.

I would like my people images to have a more commercial look to them which is why I think I mentioned a studio setting. But you can't get good without (many, many) hours of practice so that's kinda what I am looking to do I think. I have a few ideas for shoots etc, but am reluctant to tackle them knowing the results can not be where I want them to be.

Charlotte, thanks for the links. I have seen your work before. :thumbs:
 
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gazmorton2000 said:
Thanks for your replies. I guess I left a little info from my original post out of the new, edited version. I have a Canon flash and trigger which can be used off camera already. Also a softbox, umbrella and stand. So I have the essentials. I am not totally new to it but as I said, my previous results were all pretty poor and as a result, have all been deleted. So I have nothing to show to illustrate. My experience with TF is not so good either. I did a shoot with someone recently and delivered the images in my usual look etc, only to have them re edited/instagrammed and stuck on FB. I know this happens but it puts me off wanting to do more of it.

I would like my people images to have a more commercial look to them which is why I think I mentioned a studio setting. But you can't get good without (many, many) hours of practice so that's kinda what I am looking to do I think. I have a few ideas for shoots etc, but am reluctant to tackle them knowing the results can not be where I want them to be.
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1. Never delete shots. Hard drive space is cheap. I recently went back to a five year old shoot that I only produced two images from at the time and have reedited about 6 or so images.

2. Tell models the deal. 'Don't edit my work, if you want a change let me know.' But also don't be too precious. Take it as a compliment that they like it enough to put it out there.

3. What do you mean by commercial? Could you post some examples? When I think of 'commercial' images I think of a couple sitting at a cafe table laughing, for example. Or a girl in high street autumn fashion throwing leaves in the air while gazing at the camera with her perfect teeth.
 
I'm doing a city and guilds evening class in photography at a local college. The course contains a large element of studio lighting work. I'm doing the course for fun, but several other students are doing it as an entry into pro portrait work.

And as a student, I can book one of the college studios for 2 hour sessions for free. Also as the college has hair and beauty students, there are often students wanting photographs of models to show their make up/hairdressing skills etc for their portfolios.

Maybe worth finding out if anything local to you.
 
CharlotteM said:
1. Never delete shots. Hard drive space is cheap. I recently went back to a five year old shoot that I only produced two images from at the time and have reedited about 6 or so images.

2. Tell models the deal. 'Don't edit my work, if you want a change let me know.' But also don't be too precious. Take it as a compliment that they like it enough to put it out there.

3. What do you mean by commercial? Could you post some examples? When I think of 'commercial' images I think of a couple sitting at a cafe table laughing, for example. Or a girl in high street autumn fashion throwing leaves in the air while gazing at the camera with her perfect teeth.
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I have heard the never delete shots thing before and, on some levels I agree, but I refuse to keep the stuff that I hate. What's the point when viewing it angers and disheartens me.

As for types of images Charlotte, I think I just mean the high quality stuff you see from the well known professionals like I mentioned in my first post. I know they have been doing it for many, many years and have countless hours of experience and failure but you have to start somewhere right? I keep using the excuse like "I'm too old to be really good at it" or that I started too late or the fact that I am not naturally creative.
 
gazmorton2000 said:
I have heard the never delete shots thing before and, on some levels I agree, but I refuse to keep the stuff that I hate. What's the point when viewing it angers and disheartens me.

As for types of images Charlotte, I think I just mean the high quality stuff you see from the well known professionals like I mentioned in my first post. I know they have been doing it for many, many years and have countless hours of experience and failure but you have to start somewhere right? I keep using the excuse like "I'm too old to be really good at it" or that I started too late or the fact that I am not naturally creative.
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There's no reason why you couldn't create pictures like Zach Arias. In fact he does a whole workshop on Creative Live where he shows how to shoot like him.

OF course it's not going to happen for you instantaneously. You have to study it. You have to spend hours placing lights in places that are a few cm's differently to the previous. Just get out there with a single light, stop hating your photos and just shoot!

I don't see why you say you aren't creative. Your flickr stream shows loads of creative work.
 
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CharlotteM said:
There's no reason why you couldn't create pictures like Zach Arias. In fact he does a whole workshop on Creative Live where he shows how to shoot like him.

OF course it's not going to happen for you instantaneously. You have to study it. You have to spend hours placing lights in places that are a few cm's differently to the previous. Just get out there with a single light, stop hating your photos and just shoot!

I don't see why you say you aren't creative. Your flickr stream shows loads of creative work.
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Thank you for your kind words. I have form for being down on my own work. It will continue. :)

As for the creativity, I just doesn't come as naturally as it does for some. I follow some folk on Flickr who seemingly manage to shoot anything and everything and make it look great. I cannot do that no matter how I try. That's not being down by the way, just a fact. :)
 
gazmorton2000 said:
Thank you for your kind words. I have form for being down on my own work. It will continue. :)

As for the creativity, I just doesn't come as naturally as it does for some. I follow some folk on Flickr who seemingly manage to shoot anything and everything and make it look great. I cannot do that no matter how I try. That's not being down by the way, just a fact. :)
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You have to remember when you view others work that they are showing you the best show from a days work. Perhaps even the best shot from ten shoots. Perhaps the best shot from fifty shoots. I mean if you look at my agency portfolio (hard copy) it shows just twelve shots from around eight years of shooting. I don't show them all the crap, because that's not what they need to see.
 
gazmorton2000 said:
Ok, firstly apologies for deleting the original post so hastily.

Now, my wonderings about studio photography. Since deciding that I must try harder with my people photography, I have been shooting on location a lot. With the weather turning worse and the evenings getting darker more quickly, I have started to look at the option of shooting studio based images. Now, I have dabbled in the past (badly, oh so badly) and thus found it pretty boring. But then I look at photos either on here by people like Hugh, with his awesome ballet shoots (just one example, there are many more), and some of the high end pros that I follow such as Zack Arias and Joe McNally (again there are many more) and they all produce stunning, not boring, really engaging studio work. I would love to try but all the avenues just seem far too expensive, as well as the fact that I don't really know where to begin.

Local studio hire starts at around £50 for 2 hours but then who to shoot? I have exhausted my list of family and friends and been told 'no' on countless occasions, which does lead me to believe that my work is pretty poor standard. There's the self confidence issue again. So then I could hire a model, possibly at the same cost of the studio. So there we are up to £100 for 2 hours, where I can experiment and play with lighting etc. But then what? I can't expect to achieve great shots in one session and I can't constantly afford to pay that sort of money out as often as I would either like to or need to to see significant improvements.

I really feel a bit lost with it all and would welcome any advice people can give me who have been in a similar situation. :)
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Funny enough, someone else called me Hugh once, unless you actually mean Hugh....

anyway, to your point Gareth! Firstly, lose the 'confidence' thing. You have a great eye and imagination. Not everyone will get it but some people just don't get pictures. Do your thing and enjoy it (for starters).

For the price of a few days studio time, you could invest in some lights and and a background/support system and use them in a multitude of places. While it's great to be able to walk into a fully equipped studio and just do your own thing, I think it's an expensive way to learn. The Elinchrom D-Light 4 kit comes in at just over 600 quid from The Flash Centre and for that you get 2 x lights/stands/softboxes and the Skyport radio transmitter. They would be cheaper on ebay I expect. Then you get your lastolite background support system (125 quid) and some colorama (50 quid) and you have your studio which you can set up in village halls, school halls, community centres or your living room. Now you have, after that initial outlay, a versatile resource which is yours to set up where and when you wish. Learn away!

When you have the kit, you'll be surprised at how the opportunities to practice, and even earn money, present themselves. I have had jobs referred to me because the photographer in question has said, 'I haven't got lights, can you do this?'

Try and buy the best quality that you can, (or can't) afford. Try not to buy something that you will quickly grow out of. One of the reasons I suggested the Elinchrom kit is that it's good quality but you can then build on it with their excellent range of modifiers. It's no different than building up your body/lens system. Once you have it, you have lot's of options on how you use it.
 
gazmorton2000 said:
I have heard the never delete shots thing before and, on some levels I agree, but I refuse to keep the stuff that I hate. What's the point when viewing it angers and disheartens me.

As for types of images Charlotte, I think I just mean the high quality stuff you see from the well known professionals like I mentioned in my first post. I know they have been doing it for many, many years and have countless hours of experience and failure but you have to start somewhere right? I keep using the excuse like "I'm too old to be really good at it" or that I started too late or the fact that I am not naturally creative.
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Hi

I never delete work and sometimes it's handy. You can come back a few years/months later with fresh eyes/new knowledge and re edits can really work.

I took some shots ages ago, didn't like the original result so it just sat on my hard drive. Looked with fresh eyes a bit later and saw something different that I hadn't seen at the time.


My eyes don't lie [Explored] by Sir SR, on Flickr

This would have been destined for the bin - was experimenting with gels and overcooked a red gel. Was cross at the time but with new eyes and a bit more knowledge of mono, was able to get a decent image!

AND STOP BEING TOO HARD ON YOURSELF!!!!

S
 
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DT01 said:
Funny enough, someone else called me Hugh once, unless you actually mean Hugh....
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Agh! Hugh, Drew, Lou. Apologies. I did mean you! :)

Thanks for your advice. Something to think about, although I don't have the money to spend on lighting stuffs yet. I will use the Canon flash for a while to see what I can do with it I think.

Sir SR - Thanks for the pointers. Still not sure I agree on never deleting anything. Although what's gone is gone and no use wondering about it now.

Charlotte - Your right and I know that. I have far worse than on my Flickr etc that will never be shown to the world.
 
benc98 said:
Have you thought about the various studio days with models? It might be a cheaper way for you to get a studio and model for a few hours to practice
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Absolutely. But again, the proper ones aren't cheap. Especially if you want to do it regularly. There is one close to me that is cheap but the rule is that you get 10 frames and then pass the trigger on. Pretty sure you don't get to move the lights from how they are set up and the models have whatever look they are told to come with. Nothing creative about that from what I can see.
 
ah I see, that does sound a bit rubbish

I was thinking there are also some studio days where you book hour long chunks with the models - I'm assuming you can mess around with the lighting then?...

It's something I have been considering a lot too..
 
gazmorton2000 said:
Ok, firstly apologies for deleting the original post so hastily.

Now, my wonderings about studio photography. Since deciding that I must try harder with my people photography, I have been shooting on location a lot. With the weather turning worse and the evenings getting darker more quickly, I have started to look at the option of shooting studio based images. Now, I have dabbled in the past (badly, oh so badly) and thus found it pretty boring. But then I look at photos either on here by people like Hugh, with his awesome ballet shoots (just one example, there are many more), and some of the high end pros that I follow such as Zack Arias and Joe McNally (again there are many more) and they all produce stunning, not boring, really engaging studio work. I would love to try but all the avenues just seem far too expensive, as well as the fact that I don't really know where to begin.

Local studio hire starts at around £50 for 2 hours but then who to shoot? I have exhausted my list of family and friends and been told 'no' on countless occasions, which does lead me to believe that my work is pretty poor standard. There's the self confidence issue again. So then I could hire a model, possibly at the same cost of the studio. So there we are up to £100 for 2 hours, where I can experiment and play with lighting etc. But then what? I can't expect to achieve great shots in one session and I can't constantly afford to pay that sort of money out as often as I would either like to or need to to see significant improvements.

I really feel a bit lost with it all and would welcome any advice people can give me who have been in a similar situation. :)
Click to expand...


TBH I wouldn't hire a studio and a model. You may get some pleasing results by trial and error but I think you'd be much better of attending a basics training day if your local studio runs them. If not travel a little if you're serious. You'll hopefully come away with a great grounding to build on
 
boyfalldown said:
TBH I wouldn't hire a studio and a model. You may get some pleasing results by trial and error but I think you'd be much better of attending a basics training day if your local studio runs them. If not travel a little if you're serious. You'll hopefully come away with a great grounding to build on
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That was also in my original post that I deleted :bang:

Asking if anyone knew and good training days to attend. Not a million miles away but happy to travel some distance. :)
 
Where are you based? You might find someone that would let you mess around with their lights for a few hours. Certainly I've been happy in the past to just sit and let someone try out lights on me, as long as they are happy to do the same. :)
 
gazmorton2000 said:
That was also in my original post that I deleted :bang:

Asking if anyone knew and good training days to attend. Not a million miles away but happy to travel some distance. :)
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I know its a daft question, but where is Pie Land?
 
Ooops sorry, Wigan. :) Answers Charlottes question too!
 
Gareth, you've had some great advice here. The most important thing is to have fun. If you're not enjoying the process you're totally missing the point of being here. I know we all have down days and that is natural when we see so much great work out there. spend time referencing the masters in portraiture and high end fashion photography. Read their blogs and work and see how they go about creating the images they produce. You don't need huge amounts of space, money or any of that - you do, however, need a plan.
 
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Gareth, where are you based?
 
Thanks Dean. You are right, some great information here which is what I hoped for when I first started this thread!

I have now updated my location info. :)
 
OK.. I'm not even going to read any of the other replies... here's my take.

Light is light. It doesn't matter if it's studio flash or not... it's all light. Using studio flash is a learning curve in itself, as you have to meter it properly and you can't see it before you shoot (unless you have proportional modelling lamps etc)... so leave all that alone for a while... learn it when you have first of all thought about light.


Do some reading on the subject, and practice at home with objects to understand how light works. Simple facts, like small light sources are "hard" and generate hard, sharp shadows (and fall off in intensity faster as you move them away)... large lights are "soft" and diffuse shadows, and suffer less from fall off. Try it an see... get a small, bare light bulb or LED and do some still life shots on the desktop.. see how the shadows fall... see how it's high contrast with sharp shadows.

Then get a larger light source, such as desk lamp with a reflective dish behind it... see how the light becomes softer... how it plays across surfaces... it's lower in contrast.

Shine the desk lamp through a sheet of tracing paper to make an even larger "softer" light source, and see how the shadows become even softer, and contrast even lower.

Experiment with white pieces of card as reflectors to control contrast further.

Learn how the light's angle of incidence effects how the surfaces of things look... think of low evening sunlight raking across a stucco wall... how it reveals the texture... yet harsh sunlight shining straight on it just renders it white and featureless...

Stuff like this. Keep it simple. I've included thee images of objects: A cone, a sphere, and a cube. ALl lit with one light (the same light)... the only thing changing is the position of the light. I still use these images to illustrate these simple things to students to this day, despite shooting them decades ago when I was a first year ND student myself.

sQRCMM4.jpg

yZ8sYh8.jpg

gxtiCtf.jpg


You can experiment with this easily, cheaply.. and at home.... just practice.

If you hire a studio with little or no idea what you're doing, you'll spend 2 hours learning how to even use the lights properly, and then still not have taken an image.

When you understand this... you can then scale things up to people.... and learn how to use studio flash.

light is light... and lighting is what makes images work well (apart from the embedded meanings of images.. but I won't go into that here).
 
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David, thank you for your detailed response.

I already have a few of the things you have mentioned down (I think). I do know how studio lights work. I have played before (badly). I am also aware of the affects of different light sources like small vs large or closer vs further away. I get how it falls onto the subject on a basic level and have experience using natural light for portraits. People is what I want to shoot and I'm guessing as you said you didn't read the replies, you haven't read some of mine that outline more of what I am trying to do?

I have read (a lot) and I have watched (a lot). Books and videos from experienced people, including the big names. I have DVD's here from Damien Lovegrove. 'Using natural light on location' and 'Using flash on location'. I have books by Joe McNally (Hotshoe Diaries) and Scott Kelby (Light it, Shoot it, Retouch it). People Pictures by Chris Orwig. I have even been working on my people interaction as shooting people is abot people, more than it is about photography. So I know a lot of the theory. Just unsure the route to go down to put it into practice.

I have been thinking about it for a couple of days now and am still stuck for what I actually want to achieve and where I want to go with it. Frustrated. :bang:
 
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Gaz,

My 2 cent. Get some speedlights or small flash units and just practice at home. Don't waste money on studio days just yet, nobody is perfect, and being perfect is boring!
 
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