Studio lighting for cars

[AndyB]

OK here's the scenario. I might at some point in the near future, be asked to set up a 'studio' to photograph cars for a manufacturer.

The shooting area will be a semi permenant marquee possibly 15 meters square although I might need it to be a bit longer along one direction. Openning each end so the cars can be driven in and parked at my direction, photographed, and driven out.

Now the question is how to light. Continuous lighting is preferable because it will be faster to work with. However, given that I need to photograph the cars from various angles and that I don't want the cars to be turned during the shoot - what is going to be the best way to light it?

Bearing in mind The lighting will need to be suspended from the frame above so it isn't in shot - I need something that will illuminate the tops of the cars but also reach to the ground to ensure details on the sides/front/back. I don't think the material forming the walls will allow light through but the roof will be translucent and will therefore let a certain amount of natural light through.

In an ideal world I would use a turntable so I could turn the cars and light from above and from the side but that's not an option.

So - giant softboxes, ripstop ceiling with lights above it?

Any odeas and suggestions welcome. There is obviously a limit on how much I can ask for from the manufacturer but they do have cash to play with so cost is secodary to quality of photographs.

 

[Garry Edwards]

I can't see a single advantage for continuous lights, it won't be faster to work with, it won't be anywhere near as flexible and the situation will be even worse in a marquee, because it won't have enough power to overwhelm whatever light leaks in, creating different colour temperature issues every time the light changes.

Overhead softbox? Yes, it needs to be at least 3x the length of the car, to produce diffused specular highlights, and it needs to be only just out of shot. There's no way that the same overhead softbox can also light the detail, the inverse square law alone will make sure of that. What you need extra lighting at the front (but off to the side obviously) plus effect lights, normally standard flash heads with honeycombs, for details such as wheels.

Is this a high volume operation? If it is then you definately need a turntable, whether you can have one or not

 

[andrewc]

You don't need a turntable, you need skates. A set of 4 skates can be quickly applied in under a minute, then the car can easily be manoeuvred into position - and they're a lot cheaper than they used to be.

All the car studios I've chaperoned cars to have used these.

Link of what I mean. http://www.cjautos.site90.net/wheelskates.html

 

[AndyB]

Yes it is very much a volume operation. Turntable not an option - hence the challenges here The only other option (and whist I had hoped to avoid it you have confirmed what I already felt would be a problem with lighting only from above) is to drive in - photograph one side, drive out - turn around and drive back in. Skates are worth looking into - haven't really investigated those because until now I've been shooting outdoors with plenty of turning space but it would be faster to drive and turn anyway.

Gary - there is an option to have opaque covering on the marquee and I am thinking it would make light more controlable.

My reasoning behind continuous lighting was partly because of volume and continuous shooting that I suspect would go through a lot of bulbs - but you'll know more about that than me. We are talking possibly 240 shots over a couple of hours at a time.

No messing with triggers.

For speed my thinking is that with continuous lighting I can meter from each car, allowing for different finishes and colours, using the in-camera meter as a guide.

3rd advantage of continuous lighting - keeps me warmer in the cold months

This is going to take a lot of planning and it's still early days so all comments are useful.

 

[Garry Edwards]

Yes it is very much a volume operation. Turntable not an option - hence the challenges here The only other option (and whist I had hoped to avoid it you have confirmed what I already felt would be a problem with lighting only from above) is to drive in - photograph one side, drive out - turn around and drive back in. Skates are worth looking into - haven't really investigated those because until now I've been shooting outdoors with plenty of turning space but it would be faster to drive and turn anyway.

Well, skates will work, but they're slow.

My reasoning behind continuous lighting was partly because of volume and continuous shooting that I suspect would go through a lot of bulbs

If bulbs means flash tubes, think a minimum of 50,000 flashes per tube and don't be surprised if you get twice that...

Gary - there is an option to have opaque covering on the marquee and I am thinking it would make light more controlable.

I'm a Welshman, not a yank who can't spell his name - and just how are you going to control the mixed colours of the mixed light that comes through the material of the marquee?

No messing with triggers.

Not a lot of messing, you only need one.

For speed my thinking is that with continuous lighting I can meter from each car, allowing for different finishes and colours, using the in-camera meter as a guide.

That wouldn't save you any time. And your in-camera meter will often give you a totally wrong exposure, because it will only measure reflected light. You need to meter incident light.

3rd advantage of continuous lighting - keeps me warmer in the cold months

Fluorescent lighting won't keep you warm. Tungsten lighting will keep you so warm that it will melt both you and your softbox, and you'll need your own electricity sub station to power it

 

[JonathanRyan]

My reasoning behind continuous lighting was partly because of volume and continuous shooting that I suspect would go through a lot of bulbs - but you'll know more about that than me. We are talking possibly 240 shots over a couple of hours at a time.

Seriously that's nothing. In a fast paced studio you could go through 240 pops in 20 minutes.

And a new flash tube is only about 50 quid or so. Get a make where you can change your own and it's done in 5 mins.

 

[AndyB]

Sorry for the mis spelling Garry - I have a brother who wasn't blessed with two Rs as you were so it's force of habit!

OK so flash maybe an option if you really think I won't be spending out loads on replacements. Might get a year out of them at a rate of 50,000.

Metering - I have been doing the work outside in all weathers and all light conditions over the past year and using in-camera metering works fine as a guide but I've become pretty good at adding and taking away exposure according to the colours etc and never had to delete an image yet.

I do appreciate what you're saying about size and direction of light - incidental metering etc. The thing is with this job it is about fast paced turnaround on the site. For me getting good pictures is important but for the client it is also about moving cars in and out fast so there will be compromises. I need to make the best I can with it.

Just a thought Garry and maybe a daft idea. But if I am not able to get super-sized softboxes is their any possibility that using the inside of the marquee as a difuser might work. In other words have a set of lights firing at the roof and walls so all the light falling on the cars would be bounced? IT would take a bit of experimentation to get the light even but is it worth trying?

 

[Garry Edwards]

Just a thought Garry and maybe a daft idea. But if I am not able to get super-sized softboxes is their any possibility that using the inside of the marquee as a difuser might work. In other words have a set of lights firing at the roof and walls so all the light falling on the cars would be bounced? IT would take a bit of experimentation to get the light even but is it worth trying?

I've never tried it so I don't know, but I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't work provided that the colour of the marquee covering is consistent and provided that you can exclude ALL OTHER LIGHT.

Wedding photographers do this all the time, bouncing their flashes off of strange coloured ceilings, but colour integrity of cars is pretty important

 

[JonathanRyan]

Yep what Garry said - do it all the time

Colours aren't as much of an issue as you might expect - the inner swags of the marquee seem to colour the flash very like the ambient falling in.

But (1) I only do this late in the day (speeches and dinner) and it may be an entirely different thing at 10am on a summer's day and (2) skin tones are good enough - or go to B&W I bet cars need to be closer than that.

 

[AndyB]

The inside of the marquee will be white and there is an option for the walls and roof to be opaque so the light spilling in will be minimal - might be the way to go but it's going to need a lot of wattage in a 15 meter square tent!

 

[JonathanRyan]

might be the way to go but it's going to need a lot of wattage in a 15 meter square tent!

That's true - I'm generally on 4 digit ISO doing that

Maybe talk to a marquee firm though. It's possible they could hang the inner tent a couple of feet inside the outer one instead of the normal 6 inches or so. If you got heads in between then not only are they tucked out of the way you could use less power and still use the inner fabric to diffuse.

I guess you've already seen this... http://www.ips-studio.com/fawkes.htm

 

[AndyB]

Inner walls is certainly a possibility but not sure if these marquees allow for that. From what I understand, the opaque material is attached to the outer shell so there's no gap. Worth looking into though.

Those inflatables will be no good at all. The marquee will be sited on the airfield I am using at the moment for the outdoor shoots - and last week we had winds gusting at 5mph. I think that inglatable would have been disappearing into the distance pretty quick with me inside

 

[AndWhyNot]

Is your marquee inside a conventional studio/ warehouse/ somewhere you can have absolute control of the ambient lighting? If so it makes the job easier than just a white shroud around a car in daylight.

Many car studios use continuous Arri lamps. Usually it's a case of lighting the cove (or in your case marquee) to produce large diffuse reflections (as Garry says) that help define the car's lines. It's less common to light the car directly - note, we're specifically talking about studios here. Stray light is controlled by flags of polystyrene that can be large enough without weighing much, whilst reflections are tamed by strategically placed black panels.

There's videos online showing car studio setups - the one that springs to mind is from the PistonHeads session at Teddington Studios: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=One6BFdC-HA .

If that doesn't answer your question, have a word with the guys at Flow Images in Bristol 0117 980 1988 - could be worth a half day and a few quid to get some tips, plus given your location there's the outside possibility they might like to collaborate/ expand which could sort you both out.

 

[AndyB]

As already said - walls can be opaque so the ambient light is going to be minimal. Bouncing the light from the inner seems to be the most sensible option and I guess reflectors/black screens can be brought in to deal wth different finishes.

Collaboration isn't something I am interested in with this and I have plenty of time and flexibility to experiment to find the right option. I am already doing the work but this is simply a plan to move it under cover to avoid weather cancellations and wasted time.