Studio Lighting Advice

donkeymusic

donkeymusic

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Hello,

Finally had chance to start practicing in m garage/studio setup.

Have been trying to get the camera and light setups correct, basically i was setting camera at F8 with 1/125 and iso200.

Using camera meter i set this and controlled the front light to meter to the F8. When i was taking test shots the photos looked washed out. see example below.



Any ideas how i can improve the lighting?

Thanks
 
Looks like you wanted to send the background to Nirvana 255 but the background light did produce too much spill which makes your motive look foggy.

Try to place any kind of shield between the background light and the camera which helps to prevent the spill. (And do not blast more light on the background than necessary.)
 
Look up Zack Arias tutorial on white seamless background. He is explaining it all really well and detailed. :) Also the talks about light spilling back from the background. :)
 
kokakaste2 said:
Look up Zack Arias tutorial on white seamless background. He is explaining it all really well and detailed. :) Also the talks about light spilling back from the background. :)
Click to expand...

have read that many times but putting it into practice hasn't quite worked. will re-read that again to see what i am missing
 
donkeymusic said:
Hello,

Finally had chance to start practicing in m garage/studio setup.

Have been trying to get the camera and light setups correct, basically i was setting camera at F8 with 1/125 and iso200.

Using camera meter i set this and controlled the front light to meter to the F8. When i was taking test shots the photos looked washed out. see example below.



Any ideas how i can improve the lighting?

Thanks
Click to expand...
#
What sort of lighting are you using?
Your camera meter will work with continuous lighting but you say that you set the camera to f/8 and 1/125th second, which indicates that you set the camera in manual mode - so why would you do before using the meter to determine an acceptable exposure?

If you're using flash, then the camera meter will of course give you an incorrect reading - it can't measure flash.
 
Garry Edwards said:
#
What sort of lighting are you using?
Your camera meter will work with continuous lighting but you say that you set the camera to f/8 and 1/125th second, which indicates that you set the camera in manual mode - so why would you do before using the meter to determine an acceptable exposure?

If you're using flash, then the camera meter will of course give you an incorrect reading - it can't measure flash.
Click to expand...

Hi Garry,

I am using Lencarta lights, two in in hi lite and one as the key light.

I am using the camera in manual mode and was advised to use those settings for portrait work and then adjust the lights to get these settings.

I am using a light meter to meter a subject.
 
OK, so you're not using your camera meter, you're using a separate meter to meter the light on your subject? If so then that's fine.

The problem with your sample shot is flare, and it's caused by having far too much light coming from your hi-lite.

Shoot without the Hi-lite to see the contrast and look that you should be getting. Then turn on the lights in the Hi-lite but set them to a very low setting, then gradually increase the flash power until about half of the background is flashing on your LCD. That will be a good starting point.
 
Hi Garry

I did try with the lights of and took a series of shots based on 1/16, 1/8,1/4,1/2 and 1 on the flashes.

I think it was 1/ that gave the best exposure for f8' but should i not be exposing for this set?
I the. Turned the hilite light on and increased the power to they were were f11 as I had also read to expose two steps up from the subject.

Am I still on the right track?
 
Exposing the background 2 stops more than the subject is totally wrong. I know that a lot of people quote that, but it doesn't make it right. As I said, overexpose the background to the point where about half of the background is blinking on your camera monitor. You'll find that the level of overexposure is then about 0.5 - 0.7 stop, which is about right and all that is needed
 
donkeymusic said:
have read that many times but putting it into practice hasn't quite worked. will re-read that again to see what i am missing
Click to expand...

Have you watched his videos? He had really great live show some time ago, explaining it all in detail and actually showing how to do it. Maybe it is possible to find it somewhere online. :)
 
Garry Edwards said:
Exposing the background 2 stops more than the subject is totally wrong. I know that a lot of people quote that, but it doesn't make it right. As I said, overexpose the background to the point where about half of the background is blinking on your camera monitor. You'll find that the level of overexposure is then about 0.5 - 0.7 stop, which is about right and all that is needed
Click to expand...

Is it worth me lighting the hilite and flooring first and then light the subject, not sure what is the best order for me to try
 
donkeymusic said:
Is it worth me lighting the hilite and flooring first and then light the subject, not sure what is the best order for me to try
Click to expand...

As I've already said,
Shoot without the Hi-lite to see the contrast and look that you should be getting. Then turn on the lights in the Hi-lite but set them to a very low setting, then gradually increase the flash power until about half of the background is flashing on your LCD. That will be a good starting point.
Click to expand...
Of course, if you want to light the background first and then the subject then that will work too, but there isn't really much point - it's the subject that you're trying to photograph.
 
thanks Garry, will try all this later and post my results and any further issues that i can hopefully get resolved.

thanks
 
ok had another go tonight and was looking at lighting the subject, i did meter the subject to f8, and worked through the settings on the keylight to get to F8, which was 1/2 power although i did prefer it when it was at full power. The shots were taken with just the keylight to try and judge just the light on the subject.

Shot taken with f8

shot taken with f11

This photo appeared okay on the camera but lookin closer the left hand side isnt white and keep getting a shadow on the left hand side of the subject.

I thought with the hilite being back lit this would remove the shadows, but as i upped the power on the hilite i began getting the fading as in the first photo in the first thread, coudnt seem to get a balance that worked, so looking for more suggestions. the background as reading f8
 
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mike weeks said:
Where are you metering from when metering the HiLite? Both lights should be on and the key light off.

The fading you are referring to is because the background is too light.

Mike
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:thumbs: Yes, as I said before, the 'fading' is in fact lens flare caused by the Hi-Lite
 
mike weeks said:
Where are you metering from when metering the HiLite? Both lights should be on and the key light off.

The fading you are referring to is because the background is too light.

Mike
Click to expand...

i was facing the meter at the hi iite however i did have the keylight on
 
Garry Edwards said:
:thumbs: Yes, as I said before, the 'fading' is in fact lens flare caused by the Hi-Lite
Click to expand...

thanks, i understand that but what i what i found was that if i reduced the power of the hilite, then i was getting shadows from the subject and key light.
 
donkeymusic said:
thanks, i understand that but what i what i found was that if i reduced the power of the hilite, then i was getting shadows from the subject and key light.
Click to expand...
OK, so look for another reason...

Is your lens perfectly clean?
Is your lens hood effective? (I assume that you are using a lens hood)
Is your subject as far away from the Hi-lite as you can manage?

Hi-Lites have an inherent design fault in that the light is going straight towards the camera lens, which is avoided when lighting a background normally - so you need to make absolutely sure that you're not adding to the problem.
 
Are you doing any PP on the photo afterwards? I don't think it's going to be possible to get a perfect shot straight from camera when using the hilite because of the way it is lit.

I wouldn't worry if the subject is lacking in contrast a little. The shot below was very washed out in the original and it took about 5 seconds in photoshop to fix it! My setup is two Elemental 250W lights - one for the hilite and one as a keylight for the model (big octagonal softbox). Nothing else was used in this shot.

Have a bash and see if you can sort it in post easily and if so then that's a major headache sorted. :thumbs:

model.jpg
 
Oh, and before you ask there's not a chance in hell that I'm posting the original. I ain't scared of death but I am scared of what she'd do to me! :|
 
gman said:
Are you doing any PP on the photo afterwards? I don't think it's going to be possible to get a perfect shot straight from camera when using the hilite because of the way it is lit.

I wouldn't worry if the subject is lacking in contrast a little. The shot below was very washed out in the original and it took about 5 seconds in photoshop to fix it! My setup is two Elemental 250W lights - one for the hilite and one as a keylight for the model (big octagonal softbox). Nothing else was used in this shot.

Have a bash and see if you can sort it in post easily and if so then that's a major headache sorted. :thumbs:

QUOTE]
Sorry, but it is perfectly possible to get a perfect shot straight from camera. It's a lighting problem and it needs to be resolved by getting the lighting right - I'm not under rating the value of PP, but it should always be used to improve a good photo, not to rescue a bad one.

Graham, unless your softbox has a very poor diffuser, the glare showing on the face is caused by tweaking the curves in PS - that wouldn't have happened if the lighting had been right in the first place.
Click to expand...
 
Garry Edwards said:
Sorry, but it is perfectly possible to get a perfect shot straight from camera.
Click to expand...

Yeah - I was shooting a HELP project the other week and I just chucked a hilite up behind a sofa. We were doing shoot and burn all day. The largest group was 11.....

But the real reason I posted here....srsly - what are you shooting??? A life size green faced Edwardian creepy dude figure???? I was OK with it when I thought it as like 3 inches high.
 
donkeymusic said:
i was facing the meter at the hi iite however i did have the keylight on
Click to expand...

How far away from the HiLite? I meter just in front (20-30cm)and take a series of readings across the highlight and using the largest one with 2 lights I can get down to about 1/2 a stops difference.

Mike
 
Garry Edwards said:
Sorry, but it is perfectly possible to get a perfect shot straight from camera. It's a lighting problem and it needs to be resolved by getting the lighting right - I'm not under rating the value of PP, but it should always be used to improve a good photo, not to rescue a bad one.

Graham, unless your softbox has a very poor diffuser, the glare showing on the face is caused by tweaking the curves in PS - that wouldn't have happened if the lighting had been right in the first place.
Click to expand...

Now I'm going to be on a mission to get it right in camera! I guess at least I know it can be easily rescued if necessary.

Oh and agree about that subject, freaked me out when I saw the real size of it! :lol:
 
Garry Edwards said:
gman said:
Are you doing any PP on the photo afterwards? I don't think it's going to be possible to get a perfect shot straight from camera when using the hilite because of the way it is lit.

I wouldn't worry if the subject is lacking in contrast a little. The shot below was very washed out in the original and it took about 5 seconds in photoshop to fix it! My setup is two Elemental 250W lights - one for the hilite and one as a keylight for the model (big octagonal softbox). Nothing else was used in this shot.

Have a bash and see if you can sort it in post easily and if so then that's a major headache sorted. :thumbs:

QUOTE]
Sorry, but it is perfectly possible to get a perfect shot straight from camera. It's a lighting problem and it needs to be resolved by getting the lighting right - I'm not under rating the value of PP, but it should always be used to improve a good photo, not to rescue a bad one.

Graham, unless your softbox has a very poor diffuser, the glare showing on the face is caused by tweaking the curves in PS - that wouldn't have happened if the lighting had been right in the first place.
Click to expand...



Ideally, I am aiming for it to be correct direct from camera so really want o perfect the lightinh set up and to obviously help with my knowledge and understanding of studio lighting. thanks
Click to expand...
 
JonathanRyan said:
Yeah - I was shooting a HELP project the other week and I just chucked a hilite up behind a sofa. We were doing shoot and burn all day. The largest group was 11.....

But the real reason I posted here....srsly - what are you shooting??? A life size green faced Edwardian creepy dude figure???? I was OK with it when I thought it as like 3 inches high.
Click to expand...

have used the hilite for some proms but now trying to get a proper studio style setup to practice with, so need to get lighting correct.

I am shooting a 6 foot halloween butler, so that i dont have use myself as a model or to have somewhere sat there why i practice, guess that would get annoying for the person.
 
mike weeks said:
How far away from the HiLite? I meter just in front (20-30cm)and take a series of readings across the highlight and using the largest one with 2 lights I can get down to about 1/2 a stops difference.

Mike
Click to expand...

The subject is about a metre from the Hi-lite, metering the background midway between the two so about 40/50cms.

Did seem to get an even reading across the Hi-lite
 
gman said:
Now I'm going to be on a mission to get it right in camera! I guess at least I know it can be easily rescued if necessary.

Oh and agree about that subject, freaked me out when I saw the real size of it! :lol:
Click to expand...

Has no one seen the dummys in Asda before halloween?
 
lol no, never saw them. It's not the dummy itself, it's more because I originally thought it was only a few inches high! lol
 
mike weeks said:
You raise an interesting point that midway is only 40-50 cms so the extra light on the background is something to be really well considered. Ideally you should measure right at the face of the HiLite as that is the level of light that will be recorded.

Mike
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let me just get this straight in my mind i need to point the meter at the hilite and mesaure from just in front, to get the correct measurement of the Hi-lite?

thanks
 
mike weeks said:
Yes, that is the correct place to measure.

Mike
Click to expand...

Just had another two hours to try and get this working but feeling more confused and frustrated. No matter what i changed i seemed to alter another factor, so im battling with trying to light the subject correctly, light the back ground evenly and to light the floor.

So gonna start from the beginning to see what i may be missing.

The setup consists of

One large Garage, one Hi-lite lit by two Lencarta Smartflash 200. I then have two Multipanels for the flooring measuring 2.4m x 2.4m.

I have one flash positioned off-centre as a keylight which again is a smartflash 200 this has a large octobox.

Am using a Sekonic flash meter.

I am positioning a test subject approx 1 metre from the hilite.

I am setting the camera to F8, 1/125 and iso 200, set the meter to test this and took a meter reading from in front of the subject and altered the keylight until i could measure F8, which was 1/2 power

This was fine, took some test shots and also took some shots from the other settings on the flash to check i was getting a a lit subject that was correct, doing this made me think that i needed to have more power from the flash so preferred it between 1/2 power and full power.

i then switched on the hilite lights and began taking shots raising the power each time, but even on some of the lower settings i was getting too much wrap and equally i was not getting enough to light the flooring.

I thought at times the light was fine but when i checked the blinkies i was still not getting enough light to get a white background and floor.

I have read loads of tutorials and viewed many videos and still struggling to get to point that makes any sense.

So with that long post, could anyone point me in the right direction so that i can try to improve and carry on learning.

Any help is much appreciated.

Thank You
 
mike weeks said:
You never will light the floor using the HiLite, that would need additional lighting. Just try to get background and figure correct.

Mike
Click to expand...


i did manage to get the majority of it lit and showing as white, so pretty sure its possible, although i know its a hard task. Saying that, its not a priority as i want to achieve a correctly lit subject and background.
 
Garry Edwards said:
Graham, unless your softbox has a very poor diffuser
Click to expand...

What would make a poor diffuser? I've had a look and it's got two layers, an inner one and the outer one. It's one of those octagonal ones! :)
 
donkeymusic said:
i did manage to get the majority of it lit and showing as white, so pretty sure its possible, although i know its a hard task. Saying that, its not a priority as i want to achieve a correctly lit subject and background.
Click to expand...

A great philosopher once wrote "ye canna change the laws of physics".

The floor is further from your (hi)light than the subject. So less light will be falling on it. So if they are appropriately lit it won't be.

For the exact same reason that you can't light the background to white using a front light that is also lighting your subject.
 
gman said:
What would make a poor diffuser? I've had a look and it's got two layers, an inner one and the outer one. It's one of those octagonal ones! :)
Click to expand...
Unfortunately not all softboxes are equal. Some are much better designed than others and some have much better diffusers than others.
Softboxes are often made by small firms that aren't involved in photography, they buy a copy of a copy of a copy of a decent softbox and then copy it, and in the process they find ways of making it more cheaply - and one of the economies is to use very thin material for the diffusers.

These softboxes are then often bought by Ebay sellers and the like who know nothing about photography, so they don't notice the faults either.

And often, although there are 2 diffusers, the inner one is far too close to the outer one to actually work, and also often lets light escape around the edges.

I'm not saying of course that you have this problem, but if you do you might want to take a look at this article, which shows how I converted a useless cheap softbox into a perfectly good one.
 
Thanks for the article, I don't think it applies to me though as the internal skin is about half way into the softbox and looks pretty much identical to the Lencarta one. The outer skin goes right over the edges so I can't see how any light would escape?

I think it's just my lighting techniques which need improving lol
 
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