strobist flash Vs Lighting kits

Andy77

Andy77

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Hi there peeps, im in the process of buying alot of fitp strobist gear, going to be purchasing next week, carnt wait :D, just wondered if you can get as good results using your flashguns, umbrella's ect as you would using a portrait studio kit, lencarta smartflash 200 for e.g?:thinking:

thanks andy...........:thumbs:
 
Higher power lights buy you more working distance and will generally give you better results than speedlights when lighting large groups, using large light modifiers and overpowering the sun. I would like some monoblocs but the shortcomings of my speedlights are nowhere near significant enough to justify the outlay in my line of work. My advice is stick with the speedlights while you learn to light, you may even find you have no need to upgrade.
 
Speedlights are nice and portable. Studio lights help you see the light better because they're constant.
 
The concept behind the Strobist blog, as defined by David Hobby himself, is to get people to think of small flash in the same way as studio lights.

So, if you start with small off camera flash, and don't utilise the TTL features (for whatever reason) everything you learn applies when you use studio flash. :thumbs:

You'll get very good results with small flash, and it makes you think and work within the limitations of the lower power (like you can't over power the sun). Eventually you'll probably want more power, and then the studio kit comes into play.

Benefits of starting with small flash is they're portability, and they run on batteries.

Can you get as good results? Have a look at the Strobist pool on Flickr

http://www.flickr.com/groups/strobist/
 
I've been grappling with this myself as my wife gave me permission to spend 5-600 on lights to take pics of my daughters. However, I think I should start by using my existing two flashes, maybe buy a 3rd along with backdrop, umbrellas and radio triggers to see what i can achieve and to learn the skills.
 
It's a good question, and one that comes up all the time.
Trouble is, different people have different opinions - all valid - based on their own experience, so you'll get a lot of conflicting views.

Basically hotshoe flashes have the advantage of size, portability and the convenience that goes with it but lack power and, most importantly, lack the ability to control the light well. A lot of people seem to think that lighting is just about the amount of light, and about having extra light. For these people, the ability to bounce light off of a wall or the ceiling is all they need, others are happy just to push a bit of light through an umbrella or softbox, which again hotshoe flashes can do.

But lighting is about much more than this. It's about lighting quality much more than quantity, and studio flash offers the opportunity to control the light using tools that simply aren't available with hotshoe flashguns. If you want to use the more specialised light shapers such as fresnel spots, a range of different honeycombs, beauty dishes and so on, and/or if you think it's a good idea to have modelling lamps so that you can see what the flash is going to do, and/if it's important to have a flash that will recyle quickly, then studio flash is the way to go.

Horses for courses really. Personally I use studio flash whenever I can, and my Nikon Speedlights when I can't use studio flash, but that isn't very often in my case.
 
Personally...

Hot-shoe guns are have enough power for most things, but lack of modelling lights makes setting things up just right much more difficult. For example, trying to angle a reflector when you can't see what's happening as you do it, is very tedius - just a few degrees one way or another can make huge difference. I think this makes learning harder, and you're less likely do try different things.

The recycle time is much longer, like three or four seconds compared to say one second. I've missed no end of good portrait expressions that way, which is frustrating and makes you look amateurish.

You can get around this by turning the power down, but then you start chasing your tail with low output. The good high ISO performance you get with a lot of cameras goes some way to combating this, but sooner or later you'll run out of puff. Best hot-shoe guns have the equivalent of about 60-70ws output.

Hot-shoes guns are not cheap, especially after you've added some decent light modifiers, triggers, flash meter etc.

Hot-shoe guns are so small and convenient, and portable/mobile. You can put them anywhere, and TTL-auto systems make some very tricky exposure situations a simple matter of switch on and shoot.

I use both studio lights and hot-shoe guns, often together :)
 
i see what you mean about conflicting views, im just starting out using light and doing portraits, so i just want to buy the best kit for me to start with, eventually i want to do mobile portrait work, going to peoples home ect....
Im now in the dilemma of do i buy strobist flash gear or a studio setup e.g lencarta smartflash 200.

Thanks
 
Andy77 said:
i see what you mean about conflicting views, im just starting out using light and doing portraits, so i just want to buy the best kit for me to start with, eventually i want to do mobile portrait work, going to peoples home ect....
Im now in the dilemma of do i buy strobist flash gear or a studio setup e.g lencarta smartflash 200.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Do you have a hotshoe flash already?

If so, buy a stand, trigger, brolly & brolly mount and start working with those. It'll be under £50 for the lot and if in a few months you decide it's not for you, you've not lost out on very much. It will help you get a feel for working with light and you'll find where the limitations of hotshoe flash are. You can probably fit the whole lot in a single bag (except maybe the stand).

Then in a couple of months, when you know you need more power, and that you will get the use out of them, you invest in the studio heads. The smartflash have 3-4 times the power of the typical hotshoe flash, they recycle quicker, and they have a more consistent colour temperature across the range. You've got a massive choice of modifiers too.

If you want to move to mobile portraits in the future, you could well end up skipping the smartflash and going to a portable battery powered setup (e.g. Safari). I do location shoots and work this way, I can plug into the mains if it's convenient, but have full power on battery if I'm in a garden, field, warehouse, carpark etc.

I started with hotshoe flash, then last year I invested in a portable setup, but still use hotshoe flash occasionally (and mix them together). If someone wants "white background" shots, we rent a studio (even though I feel my soul draining away every time :) ).
 
Yes ive got a 430ex at the mo, ive got a list i made up which im going to be purchaseing from fitp, ive also been looking at the elemental kit which look good?
 
Andy77 said:
Yes ive got a 430ex at the mo, ive got a list i made up which im going to be purchaseing from fitp, ive also been looking at the elemental kit which look good?
Click to expand...

I've no experience of the Elemental, only the Lencarta products, and I have to say I'm very happy with them. There's another thread on here somewhere comparing the two.

One big plus for Lencarta is their support run by Garry who's posted earlier. I've always got very quick and helpful responses to any queries both pre and post sale.
 
Andy77 said:
What shall i do im frying my brain :gag: :help:
Click to expand...

The only way is to try something and see how it fits your way of working. Both studio lights and hot-shoe guns have some unique strengths, as described above, but there is a big area of overlap inbetween.

If you've sorted a selection of stuff from FITP, go ahead. I doubt that any of it will be wasted even if you eventually get studio heads - the two systems integrate quite happily, which is the way I work with white background portraits for example (two hot-shoe guns on the background).

If you're seriously unsure, then just get a softbox, stand, reflector and trigger/cord etc and see how you get on with that. You can do a lot with just one light and a reflector and you'll quickly get a feel for things.
 
JasonRS said:
Do you have a hotshoe flash already?

If so, buy a stand, trigger, brolly & brolly mount and start working with those. It'll be under £50 for the lot and if in a few months you decide it's not for you, you've not lost out on very much. It will help you get a feel for working with light and you'll find where the limitations of hotshoe flash are. You can probably fit the whole lot in a single bag (except maybe the stand).
Click to expand...

Like I said up there ;)

Start small & cheap then decide from there.
 
Thanks guys, i think in going to take you advice ;), if you were me what would you purchase from fitp? i have 1 flash at the momment, how many would you advise also regarding umbrella's, do i go for a shoot though or reflective? do i need a softbox? triggers?

WHAT DO I NEED :shrug:

:help:
 
I'd buy

A light stand - £10 on Amazon if FiTP isn't doing them

A set of triggers


Then either
A 33" convertible brolly + Umbrella adapter

Or

A collapsible softbox

the brolly option gives you a bit more flexibility and will set you up nicely for working through Strobist Boot Camp.

http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/06/strobist-boot-camp-rules-guidelines.html

I'd get a trigrip reflector too, and leave it at that until you've got the hang of one light and simple modifiers.
 
HoppyUK said:
Personally...

Hot-shoe guns are have enough power for most things, but lack of modelling lights makes setting things up just right much more difficult. For example, trying to angle a reflector when you can't see what's happening as you do it, is very tedius - just a few degrees one way or another can make huge difference. I think this makes learning harder, and you're less likely do try different things.

The recycle time is much longer, like three or four seconds compared to say one second. I've missed no end of good portrait expressions that way, which is frustrating and makes you look amateurish.

You can get around this by turning the power down, but then you start chasing your tail with low output. The good high ISO performance you get with a lot of cameras goes some way to combating this, but sooner or later you'll run out of puff. Best hot-shoe guns have the equivalent of about 60-70ws output.

Hot-shoes guns are not cheap, especially after you've added some decent light modifiers, triggers, flash meter etc.

Hot-shoe guns are so small and convenient, and portable/mobile. You can put them anywhere, and TTL-auto systems make some very tricky exposure situations a simple matter of switch on and shoot.

I use both studio lights and hot-shoe guns, often together :)
Click to expand...

I forgot to mention this in my post above!

One huge advantage of hot-shoe guns over studio lights is that they can do remote auto-TTL exposure control. No studio flash can do that and this gives hot-shoe guns a unique advantage in multi-flash situations where either it is complicated to work out manual settings, or the units are positioned in places where you can't easily reach the controls, or where you just haven't got time to mess about and it's got to be right first shot.
 
Andy77 said:
Thanks guys, i think in going to take you advice ;), if you were me what would you purchase from fitp? i have 1 flash at the momment, how many would you advise also regarding umbrella's, do i go for a shoot though or reflective? do i need a softbox? triggers?

WHAT DO I NEED :shrug:

:help:
Click to expand...

All good advice in here. I would personally recommend you start out with small flashes (although they can seem expensive compared to 'inexpensive' studio lights), then buy Joe McNally's "Hot Shoe Diaries - big light from small flashes" book, then read the entire strobist.blogspot website. Just a thought :)
 
Dangleman said:
All good advice in here. I would personally recommend you start out with small flashes (although they can seem expensive compared to 'inexpensive' studio lights), then buy Joe McNally's "Hot Shoe Diaries - big light from small flashes" book, then read the entire strobist.blogspot website. Just a thought :)
Click to expand...

:thumbs:
 
Andy - I made a decision! :) I went with the small strobe approach. I'm really glad and I'm enjoying it immensely already. I need to buy a 3rd strobe and a backdrop but will hold off from that for now. FYI I now have 2 strobes, a 5 in 1 reflector, a transmitter that can control the strobes, two light stands, a softbox and an umbrella that can be made shoot through or bounce.

It's already proved to be versatile because I dragged the softbox in to my kids bedroom, then in to their play room, etc. The lack of wires etc made this easier.

I am 100% sure that at some point i will end up buying studio lights. However, at that time I will be able to use my softbox and speedlights when I am shooting outdoors or away from my home :)

Hope that helps,
Dub
 
dubcat said:
Andy - I made a decision! :) I went with the small strobe approach. I'm really glad and I'm enjoying it immensely already. I need to buy a 3rd strobe and a backdrop but will hold off from that for now. FYI I now have 2 strobes, a 5 in 1 reflector, a transmitter that can control the strobes, two light stands, a softbox and an umbrella that can be made shoot through or bounce.

It's already proved to be versatile because I dragged the softbox in to my kids bedroom, then in to their play room, etc. The lack of wires etc made this easier.

I am 100% sure that at some point i will end up buying studio lights. However, at that time I will be able to use my softbox and speedlights when I am shooting outdoors or away from my home :)

Hope that helps,
Dub
Click to expand...

Thanks for the heads up DUB, Im compiled a list of what i want from fitp and going to order very soon, ive been pricing up backdrops and stands too.:thumbs:
 
Andy77 said:
Thanks for the heads up DUB, Im compiled a list of what i want from fitp and going to order very soon, ive been pricing up backdrops and stands too.:thumbs:
Click to expand...

Cool! Let me know what backdrop you go for and how you find it once you have it home!

GOGOGO get flash photographing quick :)
 
One thing to add about backdrops/backgrounds etc... You don't necessarily need to go out and buy one. All but two of my portrait shots have been taken against anything other than a ready made one. Get down to your local fabric shop and get a decent length of black (or any colour) material. I managed to find an end-of-roll that's 2m wide and about 5m long and I think it cost me about a tenner.

Plain walls also work well for backgrounds as well as bricks, stone, mesh... in fact, almost anything. :)

With regard to choosing between flash and studio gear, I decided to stick with the former route mainly due to the flexibility of being able to shoot almost anywhere I want to. It's certainly a more expensive option but as Richard mentioned before; it can always be used in conjunction with studio kit.

Cheers,
Si
 
jsgrounded said:
I found this site, http://www.innovatronix.com/speedfire.asp

you can plug your flashguns directly to AC mains just like studio lights.
Click to expand...

That's a handy thing, but pricey at $135 per unit. If you're going to be tethered to the mains, studio lights are still the way to go. Particularly as if you cane hot-shoe guns like that they overheat and either fail expensively or the cut-out trips in.

Better to turn them down and raise the ISO. That's what I do and it works pretty well.

You can also get an auxilliary battery pack for under £50. Takes eight batteries, cuts the recycle by at least a half, more than doubles the flash capacity, still 100% portable. You just need an even biger pile of batteries :eek:
 
Yeah, like Richard says, could come in handy if you're using hotshoe flashes on shoot in a studio (or anywhere that has power sockets, really), but they just outprice themselves.

If you're shooting speedlights so hard that the batteries drain flat, it's probably time to go make a brew anyway, which gives you plenty of time to switch out to a new set of batteries. :)

Speaking of a big pile of batteries... Before and after. :)
 
Kaouthia said:
Yeah, like Richard says, could come in handy if you're using hotshoe flashes on shoot in a studio (or anywhere that has power sockets, really), but they just outprice themselves.

If you're shooting speedlights so hard that the batteries drain flat, it's probably time to go make a brew anyway, which gives you plenty of time to switch out to a new set of batteries. :)

Speaking of a big pile of batteries... Before and after. :)
Click to expand...

Second pic is better!

But I've had it with rechargeables (and don't anybody say Eneloops). Flippin pain in the neck when you've got four guns to feed. I just buy Duracells at 30p a go - only a few quid per shoot, no hassle.
 
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