Strobes. What do I need?

[petemc]

So I have the 430ex and Sigma Super Duper 500. I've tested and the 430ex goes off in slave when the Sigma fires. Ideally then what do I need for location? I've got 2 tripods so I guess I need specific tripod mounts? Probably some dohikey on the camera to remotely fire one flash which also fires t'other? I plan to spend a bit of time reading up on these things seeing as I have the gear to do location lighting but I'm after a headstart while I clean my room I've heard of poppers? Some other wireless things that do stuff too. I guess brollies might be good as well. Don't fancy spending £500 on Bowens lamps when I seem to have half the gear already with 2 strobes and I've seen some stunning shots with strobes so I wanna play.

 

[Tyke Tiler]

Fantastic! How exciting!!!

First watch this! It explains all the doodads and thingamabobs and how to sup them together. Stuff you may already know but it's a great video.

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Then here's a few places where you can buy the gear from:

Stands

Umbrella Clamp/Swivel

Brollies

cold shoe adaptor

It would be nice to buy it all from one place but chances are slim.

Cheap triggers if you need them, would be cactus v2s's, run a search on ebay, loads of sellers have them. They are fairly hit and miss though mate.
If you want 1000% reliability from a trigger then either Pocket Wizards, Elinchrom Skyports or Bowens Pulsars are the best bet.
I used cactus triggers for a while but after chancing them on a commission (stray radio waves can set them off) I havent used them.
I found a good deal on some wizards and they have never, ever let me down, two AA's last about 60 hours in one wizard.

Any questions I'd be happy to help Pete

 

[petemc]

Cool I'll watch that in a bit. Is it possible to get something for my tripods or should I just buy 2 stands?

 

[Tyke Tiler]

Cool I'll watch that in a bit. Is it possible to get something for my tripods or should I just buy 2 stands?

No worries.
Tripods will probaby end up annoying you to be fair, they're just a bit OTT, much heavier and can't be folded down as tightly as the stands etc.

Check this out as well mate:
Strobe lighting 101

It's got all the basics, theories, practises etc.
You may want to invest in a few correction gels for correct white balance by matching the flashes colour temp to flourescent and tungsten ambient sources. Lee filters do colour correction gels, they'll even send you a free swatch book, the swatches are easily big enough to be stuck to the front of a flash head too!
You get all the colours of the rainbow! and for free!

 

[benneh]

You can get tripod heads for most situations (softbox/umbrella no problem).

I would be looking at 3 head minimum (being as key/backlight are quite basic, and a nice fill would give you more creative freedom, and allow you to shoot more than 1 thing/person at once).

Don't expect too much from the 430ex either (in my experience it's really not powerful enough for a decent sized softbox at a good working distance).

2x 580 ex's and your 430 would be a good middle ground, working with 2 soft boxes and an umbrella (personal preference I suppose, but IMO a softbox is waaaay nicer than an umbrella).

580 for key and fill, 430 for backlight, wireless sender and 3 receivers (I certainly wouldn't trust slave flash triggers on location), suitable stands and heads. Job's a good 'un.

Sender and receiver wise there's lots. I've used Cactus triggers and receivers and found them to be fine, cheap as hell too. But who knows lol.

OOh and as above, gels are a MUST.

 

[Tyke Tiler]

Strobes are alot of fun Pete, you'll have a blast, they spice up the old self portraits a little too mate!
Soon you can look as handsome as me

 

[petemc]

Not sure if 3 heads are going to be possible, for the shots I have in mind. I wouldn't want them to be in the way. I'm thinking of wide angle shots, close up with people in. Looking at the prices of stands + heads it doesn't seem to break the bank.

Ooookay, not the sort of shot I was thinking of Tomas

 

[benneh]

Fnar! .

 

[Tyke Tiler]

Ooookay, not the sort of shot I was thinking of Tomas

There's just no pleasing some is there

A two strobe set up for wides is dandio IMO, just remember to light close and have the main light nice and high, kind of mimicking a 'sun', that's why alot of strobe users will opt for stands that extend to at least 6ft or higher. I've had folk assisting, holding the stand with a beauty dish as high as they could, standing on tippy toe.
The light just looks better coming from above.
The fill light can be off axis, on axis or pretty much anywhere that fills the shadows a little.
You may want to add a third flash in future but one flash and twin flash set ups are very effective. I've done all year with a single, two strobes and three strobes set ups.
Now I'm using 4 and after a recent commission, I could do with a few more!!

That's the beauty of lighting with flash guns though, it's cheap, it's compact, I can carry all my gear on the bus! Great, smashin, super!

 

[Tyke Tiler]

Fnar! .

"Young Man, there's no need to feel down, I said......"

Hell, I'm no homophobe, I'm not scared of me house!

 

[petemc]

Basically I'm thinking of this shot...

More to the left though with people leaving heading towards me. So building on the right, people on the left nicely lit. I could probably get away with it with my 430ex and Lightsphere as I've got some great results from that. I just want to do better though.

 

[Tyke Tiler]

Basically I'm thinking of this shot...

Nice. What time of day are you thinking of? Looks late in the shot but I can't quite tell.
Also, the cheap ebay triggers don't like being to far away from the transmitter, the bigger the distance, the more chances of mis-firing.
Mind you, it's cheap enough to give em a try though and if they don't do the job you'll have to call in the trigger artillery.

 

[Flash In The Pan]

Strobes are alot of fun Pete, you'll have a blast, they spice up the old self portraits a little too mate!
Soon you can look as handsome as me

:nono:

You've been warned about that already, Tomas

 

[benneh]

Nice. What time of day are you thinking of? Looks late in the shot but I can't quite tell.
Also, the cheap ebay triggers don't like being to far away from the transmitter, the bigger the distance, the more chances of mis-firing.
Mind you, it's cheap enough to give em a try though and if they don't do the job you'll have to call in the trigger artillery.

The further away the strobe the more likely a little scally will abscond with it ;P.

 

[petemc]

Dusk probably. Which is going to kick the ISO up a bit.

That was done with a 430ex and lightsphere at 10mm. Very close up. They wanted a gritty look so that was ok. Its the cleaner look with reduced shadows that I think will benefit from a decent strobe setup.

 

[benneh]

Only problem with that si that you'll have to have the lights set up beforehand and arrange for people to stand in a particular spot (if you're lighting for 10mm).

 

[Crimson Athens]

Thanks Pete
The video is great indeed. Good link
I have a question too. I usually use portable flashes (strobes) on tripods for my shoots (Metz 45 CT-1) but I was thinking of getting some real (wow) studio flash equipment for better results. What would you think of studio flash vs strobes?
Also I am a bit confused on what to buy, have you ever tried the Profotos, and if so, would you recommend them? WOuld you recommend any other studio flash?


many thanks, your help is invaluable

 

[Flash In The Pan]

There are a couple of different kinds of Ebay triggers around just now, the earlier ones (which I had) the Cactus V2s model which use obscenely expensive CR2 batteries and a newer one which runs on (I think) AAs.

I don't think there was one occasion with my Cactii that I didn't either have a misfire or at least one dead receiver. They're certainly cheap enough to have a play around with, but after a wee while you'll probably end up scunnered with them like I was with mine.

 

[Tyke Tiler]

Dusk probably. Which is going to kick the ISO up a bit.

Probably but you can always take a few from a little earlier and see how it goes. I'm very interested to see what you make of it

That was done with a 430ex and lightsphere at 10mm. Very close up. They wanted a gritty look so that was ok. Its the cleaner look with reduced shadows that I think will benefit from a decent strobe setup.

That's an awesome shot! Grit and all!
I look at a scenerio like that though and I'm already thinking, key light camera right high, fill camera left medium high and then a rim for each side too, maybe a backlight to pick out detail in the background.....
Before you know it all my flashes are up and used, what can I say I'm a Mcnally fan!

A few transparent plastic bags to cover from the rain and wham bam.

2 lights is fine though mate, looking forward to seeing the results!

I wish the very best with your adventures Pete.

 

[petemc]

Only problem with that si that you'll have to have the lights set up beforehand and arrange for people to stand in a particular spot (if you're lighting for 10mm).

Its a commissioned shoot with models and everything.

That's an awesome shot! Grit and all!
I look at a scenerio like that though and I'm already thinking, key light camera right high, fill camera left medium high and then a rim for each side too, maybe a backlight to pick out detail in the background.....
Before you know it all my flashes are up and used, what can I say I'm a Mcnally fan!

A few transparent plastic bags to cover from the rain and wham bam.

2 lights is fine though mate, looking forward to seeing the results!

I wish the very best with your adventures Pete.

Thats basically what I was thinking It needs that lower light to reduce the shadow. The shot works well enough but it could be better.

 

[benneh]

Its a commissioned shoot with models and everything.

Ah, should be fine then .

 

[petemc]

Ok so the shoot is on Friday. I only have a couple of hours tomorrow morning so I'll visit Calumet and see what I can buy. Part of me thinks that my lightsphere 2 will do the job. It hasn't failed me yet. Part of me thinks that I should have better gear.

 

[Janice]

I've tested and the 430ex goes off in slave when the Sigma fires.

Well that's a swizz! My 580EX II doesnt go off in slave mode by firing the onboard flash. Does the sigma send something other than just the flash........ie and infrared signal or something.?

 

[Lensflare]

Pete - you can fill the shadows under her chin etc with a reflector....it doesn't have to be a light, you can just redirect the overspill from the ones you already have. More subtle too.

 

[mthrembo]

Woo, I've been reading Strobist the past few weeks after developing an interest in portability, I've used big Bowens Gemini's on shoots (just borrowed), but they're just not practical for little ol me to carry. Exactly the info I was after, good luck with shoot Pete, can't wait to see the results

 

[fletch5]

Well that's a swizz! My 580EX II doesnt go off in slave mode by firing the onboard flash. Does the sigma send something other than just the flash........ie and infrared signal or something.?

have you set it to slave janice?

looking good pete, if your concerned bout not getting it, hire the bigger equipment to cut costs

 

[petemc]

Pete - you can fill the shadows under her chin etc with a reflector....it doesn't have to be a light, you can just redirect the overspill from the ones you already have. More subtle too.

Even on an overcast day? Is it really going to do anything? I've got some shots that are going to be at night too.

Woo, I've been reading Strobist the past few weeks after developing an interest in portability, I've used big Bowens Gemini's on shoots (just borrowed), but they're just not practical for little ol me to carry. Exactly the info I was after, good luck with shoot Pete, can't wait to see the results

Yer exactly. The lighting I've used in the past has been impossible to put outside. The more I read the more I want to play.

looking good pete, if your concerned bout not getting it, hire the bigger equipment to cut costs

Would Calumet rent out some stands, brollies and maybe a 550ex flash? The annoying thing is that you can buy stands on ebay for £10. They cost £30 from Calumet They wouldn't get here in time from ebay.

 

[petemc]

Ok the shoot has been rescheduled due to weather. That gives me time. I've ordered 2 stands but I'm still lost on the rest. Brollies etc. On ebay you can get 2 100cm diffuser brollies for £20. Calumet has 1 silver type for £30 :/

I'm also thinking about off camera 430ex + lightsphere and a reflector. Then theres whether I should be stupid and buy a 580ex to control the 430ex better, which would also require a new lightsphere :/ Theres so many options.

 

[Tyke Tiler]

Ok the shoot has been rescheduled due to weather. That gives me time. I've ordered 2 stands but I'm still lost on the rest. Brollies etc. On ebay you can get 2 100cm diffuser brollies for £20. Calumet has 1 silver type for £30 :/

The shoot through diffuser types are much more softer on the skin, the silver reflector types work in a similar way to a sawn off shotgun, larger blast but shorter in range and not so soft on the skin . The light is reflected and amplified at the cost of distance.
Be careful with out door shoots though, one gust of wind and your set up may be stolen by the skies.
This happened to a colleague, he was shooting a semi naked lady inside and old tunnel, a strong air current whipped up his brollie, stand and flash and propelled it a few hundred yards before annihilating it on the tarmac.

A stofen omni-bounce/diffuser is great for out door work IMO. Compact too and a little easier to work with of the wind is a blowin. Can't beat a heavy doodad anchoring the stand though.

I'm also thinking about off camera 430ex + lightsphere and a reflector. Then theres whether I should be stupid and buy a 580ex to control the 430ex better, which would also require a new lightsphere :/ Theres so many options.

I've used a two flash set up with a reflector and it does work nicely, one flash as key and the other as fill.
Would you be fitting the reflector to a stand or will someone hold it in place for you?

 

[petemc]

The shoot through diffuser types are much more softer on the skin, the silver reflector types work in a similar way to a sawn off shotgun, larger blast but shorter in range and not so soft on the skin . The light is reflected and amplified at the cost of distance.
Be careful with out door shoots though, one gust of wind and your set up may be stolen by the skies.

Cool. I do like the softer look.

A stofen omni-bounce/diffuser is great for out door work IMO. Compact too and a little easier to work with of the wind is a blowin.

Yer thats my worry. Setting up 1m brolly in this weather and then chasing it around Liverpool like a Benny Hill sketch. So in theory, given that the lightsphere works well, I could just setup another flash on a stand without the brolly? I think the problem I have is that the lightsphere fits the 430ex and the Sigma 500 DG is the one that currently controls it... I think. I prefer the lightsphere look to the stofen.

I've used a two flash set up with a reflector and it does work nicely, one flash as key and the other as fill.
Would you be fitting the reflector to a stand or will someone hold it in place for you?

Yer thats the glitch. I guess I could ask my client to, but thats a little unprofessional. I could ask for an assistant. I get a request to assist about once a month so I'm sure someone would. Just the point of being an assistant is to learn from a pro and well I dunno jack

 

[Kev M]

I dont' know if they're still around but I got two dual purpose brollies (shoot through and reflective) for £20 delivered within about 2 days from an ebay shop called fotosupplies. Not exactly bowens stuff but they look alright and they're cheap enough that if it's not your thing then you won't lose too much money.

 

[Tyke Tiler]

Cool. I do like the softer look.

Me too, the reflector brollies do have really good uses though, lighting a background or detailing interiors etc.

Yer thats my worry. Setting up 1m brolly in this weather and then chasing it around Liverpool like a Benny Hill sketch.

I think it would be more like a Mary Poppins that's a never comin back!

I prefer the lightsphere look to the stofen.

They are a clever bit o kit, you may find that you lose nearly a stop in flash output compared to a stofen though, the stofen is a few cm's away from the head whereas a lightsphere is a much bigger design of diffuser, this may not make much of a difference though, just planting the seed like.

Yer thats the glitch. I guess I could ask my client to, but thats a little unprofessional. I could ask for an assistant. I get a request to assist about once a month so I'm sure someone would. Just the point of being an assistant is to learn from a pro and well I dunno jack

Well being as the shoot has been posponed, give the set up a full trial run, to be fair, you may not need a reflector with a key and fill light anyway.
Give it a blast with a guinea pig or two and then decide about callin in the cavalry.
I always want and need help but most of the time I manage fine on my jack jones with four flashes.
Outdoor is a bit more unpredictable though and help is always good to have on standby.

 

[petemc]

Annoying that Calumet don't sell the diffuser brollies. I should have just ordered them earlier but they sound so big. I'll nip there tomorrow and get the attachments for the stands.

 

[petemc]

Ok I'm now the owner of a brolly (removable black background and diffuser mode), 2 stands and 1 hotshoe mount thats supposed to trigger the flash when t'other fires. It doesn't seem to though. I've set the Sigma on the stand into slave mode and its going off nicely. 430ex with the lightpshere on the 30D. Tried some shots and various buttons on the sigma seem to adjust the light. C0, C1. Gunna try it out tomorrow on my sister and see what happens. I have a feeling that if I put the 30D + 430ex into portrait mode i'll still get harsh shadows.

 

[Tyke Tiler]

Ok I'm now the owner of a brolly (removable black background and diffuser mode), 2 stands and 1 hotshoe mount thats supposed to trigger the flash when t'other fires. It doesn't seem to though. I've set the Sigma on the stand into slave mode and its going off nicely. 430ex with the lightpshere on the 30D. Tried some shots and various buttons on the sigma seem to adjust the light. C0, C1. Gunna try it out tomorrow on my sister and see what happens. I have a feeling that if I put the 30D + 430ex into portrait mode i'll still get harsh shadows.

Hmmm, I used to have a Sigma 500 Super Duper, I remember the C0 and C1 settings, the front flashes red don't it? Then it can be triggered without any other help from remotes and slaves, I can't remember how to turn the output up and down though
Have ya still got the 'structions?

Let us know how the testing goes tomorrow, if you need us give us a shout!
T.

 

[petemc]

Instructions are for girls I'll just keep pushing and see what happens. Front does flash red in those modes yer. I'm sure that this hot shoe thing I bought is meant to work in any mode but it doesn't do anything.

 

[Tyke Tiler]

Instructions are for girls I'll just keep pushing and see what happens.

If ya keep pushin buttons, next doors telly might switch and off or you might even start launching missiles! :|

Front does flash red in those modes yer. I'm sure that this hot shoe thing I bought is meant to work in any mode but it doesn't do anything.

Mine (Sigma Duper) didn't work with any slaves that fitted to the hot shoe for me, just worked in the 'flashy red mode' by itself. Infact I think the red flashy mode is a slave setting infra red type doodad.
Try the hot shoe thingy with your canon flash and then press the test button on the sigma, that should prove that the hot shoe thingy at least works maybe nicely.

 

[petemc]

I'll try that tomorrow. The mount I have is sorta like this

Just doesn't seem to work though. Maybe I got a duff one.

 

[Tyke Tiler]

I'll try that tomorrow. The mount I have is sorta like this

Just doesn't seem to work though. Maybe I got a duff one.

Yeah, I know the type, jus a plain slave, the super duper probably won't be co-operating with that, my duper didn't even co-operate with pocket wizards. The only way of successfully triggering it was in 'flashy red mode'.

If it does work with the Canon flash, it's alreet though.

 

[Kev M]

Try just putting the sigma into manual when using that slave thing. Alternatively try putting the sigma on your camera and the canon flash on the slave. Don't forget to turn off any pre-flashes for ttl as they'll set the slave off before the shutter goes.