StroBeam DL250 MkIII Strobist Lighting Kit

[G2EWS]

Hi All,

Has anyone else got this kit?

I have started to get into strobist work having spent a fortune on studio lights and equipment.

Built up with 2 x SB900's, 1 x SB800 and had recently bought a set of Pocket Wizards from here, the TT1, TT5 and then the AC3 controller.

Went to Focus to look at and buy some new tripods and softboxes.

Then found the StroBeam set up:

StroBeam DL250 MkIII

What can I say? Amazing bit of kit and is so easy to use. I had it set up shooting 5 - 6 frames per second with ease.

It seems that Sam who designed them has thought of everything.

Once I start to get some shots I will put some up for you to see.

If you have any questions ask away.

Best regards

Chris

 

[G2EWS]

OK, I have managed to get a model. One who doesn't moan about her hair or make up:

2 x Strobeam 250DL's
One to left into a silver brolly at 1/16th power
One just to right into silver ocotbox at 1/8th power
1/250th
f5.6
D3S
ISO200
Nikon 70 - 200 2.8 at 70mm

Regards

Chris

 

[G2EWS]

Bit of an issue with the Octobox that you may be able to help me with.

You seem to have two options. Either the tripod goes through a zipped hole in the side of the brolley. Or you can feed the tripod through the front.

The first option means you cannot appear to angle the softbox down very much. So if you want to get a high light shining down.

The second means if you do angle it down then you cannot fit the diffuser on the front of the box.

Does that make sense?

Am I doing something wrong or is this a feature of a box that goes on a small light?

Best regards

Chris

 

[G2EWS]

This is the ocotobox:

Octobox

You can see in one of the photos that doesn't have the diffuser how the box is angled down as far as it will go due to the zipper.

Regards

Chris

 

[G2EWS]

Information straight off the brochure:

Battery Pack Life
Li-on battery, 1200 flashes full power - 20,000 low power, 4 hour full recharge time.

Recycle to 100%
0.2 sec to 1.9 sec (may be fired before 100% recycle for speed shooting at reduced power)

Chris

 

[specialman]

Chris - I was massively impressed with these at focus2012. Loved the solidity of the heads and the trigger system is very trick. The lack of modifiers that fit was of initial concern but TBH, now I've thought about it, as a location set-up then I think the brolly type soft boxes will be more portable anyway. Would certainly work a treat with my Westcott.

This is the ocotobox:

Octobox

You can see in one of the photos that doesn't have the diffuser how the box is angled down as far as it will go due to the zipper.

I think you have to do the Westcott Apollo trick with this, which is have the stand coming through the front of the octobox and then the diffuser panel is sealed around it.

 

[paul williams]

An interesting product and it certainly has some interesting features which seemed quite nice until I went more into the delivered specification and I'd have to question it's usability out-of-doors.

The stated output of f22@ISO 100 at 1 meter seem very low to me for a 250ws head - to be honest I'd be looking for at least 4 times that (f45 which is what I get with my 200ws head) and even then usability in bright sunlight would be very limited from personal experience. So although initially I thought I'd mark it down as a product to investigate further, given it's other limitations (restricted modifiers, no modelling light) and the rather high price/spec ratio...will however be interested to see how the OP gets on with this over the coming months.

Paul

 

[G2EWS]

I will keep you informed.

We have organised a training day near Devizes in a new studio with the Yerburys:

Yerbury Training

As part of this we are getting some more of the StroBeam lights to experiment with.

Best regards

Chris

 

[JonathanRyan]

The stated output of f22@ISO 100 at 1 meter seem very low to me for a 250ws head - to be honest I'd be looking for at least 4 times that (f45 which is what I get with my 200ws head) and even then usability in bright sunlight would be very limited from personal experience.

That was measured using diffuser in place (really I'd no idea these numbers were going to become gospel..... ). Without it I'd expect 1 stop more. Which seems a little (though not a lot) less powerful than you might expect.

 

[tiler65]

An interesting product and it certainly has some interesting features which seemed quite nice until I went more into the delivered specification and I'd have to question it's usability out-of-doors.

The stated output of f22@ISO 100 at 1 meter seem very low to me for a 250ws head - to be honest I'd be looking for at least 4 times that (f45 which is what I get with my 200ws head) and even then usability in bright sunlight would be very limited from personal experience. So although initially I thought I'd mark it down as a product to investigate further, given it's other limitations (restricted modifiers, no modelling light) and the rather high price/spec ratio...will however be interested to see how the OP gets on with this over the coming months.

Paul

What is your kit Paul, just for comparison of course.

 

[paul williams]

What is your kit Paul, just for comparison of course.

I have a mix of several lights, ranging in age from nearly 30 years to a few months old. They are all Multiblitz, 200ws lights - the newest being Profilux Plus 200. When I last did outdoor work many years ago I had some early Multiblitz Profilites which were modular and you could unclip the mains voltage power module and replace it with a 12v one to run from your car battery - they literally had a lead coming out of the pack terminated with large crocodile clips.

Did very little outdoor work so eventually moved to the mains only version.

Currently thinking about getting back to doing some outdoor shots and would like to utilise the Multiblitz Propac option but it's a bit pricey, so looking at some dedicated portable options, as I feel 200ws/f45 (standard reflector) is a bit limiting based on those early efforts. Would also like to keep costs as low as possible as it's strictly hobby stuff.

Paul

 

[paul williams]

That was measured using diffuser in place (really I'd no idea these numbers were going to become gospel..... ). Without it I'd expect 1 stop more. Which seems a little (though not a lot) less powerful than you might expect.

Bit of an own-goal on their website then?

Paul

 

[JonathanRyan]

they literally had a lead coming out of the pack terminated with large crocodile clips.

Was you assistant William Hartnell.....?

Bit of an own-goal on their website then?

Dunno - not seen the page you mean. I know the figures are in their brochure which was made, um, quite quickly in advance of Focus.

Also to be a truly accurate test, I guess you'd want to measure the distance. Rather than go "ah, that looks about a metre"

 

[paul williams]

Actually looking at the spec page again it quotes the range F22 3 > F4 for output, so if it does cover 1/1 to 1/64th then either the 'low is high' or the 'high is low' or they don't cover complete stops or I'm just confused...

Paul

 

[Garry Edwards]

Actually looking at the spec page again it quotes the range F22 3 > F4 for output, so if it does cover 1/1 to 1/64th then either the 'low is high' or the 'high is low' or they don't cover complete stops or I'm just confused...

Paul

I'm guessing that what they actually mean is f/22 d3, I'm guessing that they're talking about f/stops not focal lengths
That would give the lights a range of 5.3 stops rather than the claimed 6 stops.
I haven't seen these units, but I read somewhere that they actually reduce down less than stated, so if that's right (and I don't know whether it is) then that may explain the discrepancy.

They seem from the specs to be a very useful replacement for/supplement to hotshoe flashes, especially with the fast recycling, but not a viable alternative to powerful location or studio lighting kit. Even if modifiers were available to maximise the limited power, they are well short of the power needed for anything other than fill flash in bright sun - but an interesting product just the same.

Edit: Just looking at their site, they claim that the adjustment range is 1:64 and also describe it as 7 stops... 1:64 is in fact 6 stops, so now I'm confused too. Maybe they wrote the webpage in a hurry.

 

[Canon Bob]

Edit: Just looking at their site, they claim that the adjustment range is 1:64 and also describe it as 7 stops... 1:64 is in fact 6 stops.....

1:64 is 7 stops of adjustments but 1/64 is 6 stops less.....it's how you interpret it Taff.

Bob

 

[paul williams]

Was you assistant William Hartnell.....?

No Professor Quatermass

Paul

 

[Garry Edwards]

1:64 is 7 stops of adjustments but 1/64 is 6 stops less.....it's how you interpret it Taff.

Bob

Math was never my strong point but...

Reduce to half power = 1 stop
Reduce again to 1/4 power = 2 stops
Reduce again to 1/8 power = 3 stops
Reduce again to 1/16 power = 4 stops
Reduce again to 1/32 power = 5 stops
Reduce again to 1/64 power = 6 stops

Is there another way of interpreting it? But according to their website, it actually adjusts by 5.3 stops.

 

[Canon Bob]

I think it's seen as
1/1 1/2 1/4 1/8 1/16 1/32 1/64 ie, 7 power settings/stops

As I said, down to interpretation.

Bob

 

[Garry Edwards]

I think it's seen as
1/1 1/2 1/4 1/8 1/16 1/32 1/64 ie, 7 power settings/stops

As I said, down to interpretation.

Bob

Well, that's 7 different power settings, not 7 stops of adjustment - I suppose I'm just one of those strange people who likes information to be accurate and truthful. If I wanted to 'interpret' figures I could say that the Lencarta Safari Li-on had 7.3 stops of adjustment - but it "only" has a true 6.3 stops so I won't

 

[HoppyUK]

The spec sheet is interesting but doesn't read quite right in a couple of places. The power should be easy enough to check approximately in a way we can all relate to - with a brolly.

I've just tried a 250Ws Elinchrom BX250Ri, fired it into a 100cm white umbrella and it measured f/16d3 at 1.0m, ISO 100. Distance measured from a plane across the nearest edge of the brolly. A 100cm double-diffuser softbox should be similar.

I then fitted an 18cm reflector (similar to the one on the Strobeam product page) and the power jumped more than two stops to f/32d4.

Edit: agree with Garry on power range. Full power down to 1/64th is a difference of six stops. Most manufacturers would claim seven for that though

 

[Garry Edwards]

The spec sheet is interesting but doesn't read quite right in a couple of places. The power should be easy enough to check approximately in a way we can all relate to - with a brolly.

I've just tried a 250Ws Elinchrom BX250Ri, fired it into a 100cm white umbrella and it measured f/16d3 at 1.0m, ISO 100. Distance measured from a plane across the nearest edge of the brolly. A 100cm double-diffuser softbox should be similar.

I then fitted an 18cm reflector (similar to the one on the Strobeam product page) and the power jumped more than two stops to f/32d4.

Edit: agree with Garry on power range. Full power down to 1/64th is a difference of six stops. Most manufacturers would claim seven for that though

Yes, based on that test the output would seem to be similar to that of a hotshoe flashgun. It would be useful to see independent tests, carried out by a respected magazine...

Problem is, the watt-second (or, as Strobeam prefer to call it, watts [but we know what they mean] figure) isn't necessarily a true figure of actual output, it's just an expression of the amount of energy stored in the capacitors rather than of the delivered energy. And the cheaper the flash unit the less likely the actual energy is to match the energy from a better make of the same stated energy - not that actual flash energy is the be all and end all of flash units, although of course it becomes far more important if the unit has to produce enough power to affect the ratio of flash to natural light.

I think, in a perfect world, it would be better for manufacturers/sellers to forget about stored energy figures and just publish true guide numbers, but the problem with that elysium standard is that there is in fact no true benchmark method of measuring guide numbers.

 

[HoppyUK]

It would be interesting to see what it actually puts out first Garry

Then if it makes the power, can it match the claimed flash durations and stay within 200K of colour.

That's a big ask from an IGBT based unit, but it seems like a nut waiting to be cracked by a clever manufacturer.

Would be great if it did. I saw these Strobeams at Focus and they looked nice. I meant to go back for a closer look but ran out of time.

 

[mark1616]

I had a look at these while at the show as well. The high speed was very interesting but for me the power and lack of modifiers didn't do what I wanted, namely to beat the sun.

My Lencarta Safari Li-on kit is meant to be here in less than 2 hours (if the shipping info is correct) so I'm looking forward to that.

Still like these units and IGBT technology, can't wait for us to have it available on more 600ws systems, I think the AB Eintein units are there already but not overly fast at full or even half power so a little way to go. There is no point in being able to go really short duration if that is only at silly low settings, otherwise I will just use a speedlight.

I think the next few years will be interesting.

 

[G2EWS]

I haven't seen these units, but I read somewhere that they actually reduce down less than stated, so if that's right (and I don't know whether it is) then that may explain the discrepancy.

Hi Garry,

As a UK distributor of a competitors product something is just wrong about you pulling down the StroBeam without having evidence. If you have evidence then please refer to it, otherwise I think you should remove your statement.

Best regards


Chris

 

[Garry Edwards]

Chris,

You're entitled to your opinion, but a couple of points...
1. I don't view Strobeam as any kind of competitor to Lencarta. Lencarta make studio lighting and studio-quality portable lighting, Strobeam sells what appears to me to be a Quantum-style hotshoe flash, which isn't the same thing at all, so any observations that I may have about hotshoe flashes aren't going to help Lencarta in any way.
2. I'm a commercial photographer who happens to know a bit about flash, and I'm just as entitled as you or anyone else to tell people what I happen to know. I don't own Lencarta, they are just one of my clients.
3. It wasn't me who pointed out that their flash power seems to be greatly exaggerated, it's obvious to anyone who knows anything about flash that the output should be much greater than it appears to be. I didn't knock the power output, I just commented on what a statement such as '250 Ws' actually means, or doesn't mean.
4. I didn't say that the Strobeam doesn't adjust down as much as they say it does, I just mentioned that I had seen somewhere that it didn't. In fact, their own website makes two contradictory statements on this - firstly it says that there are 7 stops of adjustment, then it says that it only actually adjusts by 5.3 stops, so if anyone is causing confusion about their range of adjustment, it's the people who are selling it.

If you take the trouble to ask that nice Mr. Google you'll easily find this post on lighting rumours, just read the comments at the end of the piece.

The power controls are not accurate or linear. I.E. minimum power is at least one stop greater than indicated. Thus the range is only 3.5-4 stops and not the advertised 5 stops.

 

[G2EWS]

Hi Garry,

Interesting comments from you and thanks for coming back.

I should say that my concern is when a 'competitor' makes an unsubstantiated adverse comment not someone acting as an individual. Once you distribute a competitive product you need to be very clear and careful in your statements.

Thanks for the link, but I should point out that the reference to StroBeam power controls doesn't appear to be referring to the DL250MKIII's at all. Unless I have missed something. I do agree that the DL250's don't appear to be competitive to anything that Lencarta sell, but it is still wrong to make a comment that was not confirmed. We can all knock other people/companies!

Best regards


Chris

 

[Garry Edwards]

Hi Garry,

Interesting comments from you and thanks for coming back.

I should say that my concern is when a 'competitor' makes an unsubstantiated adverse comment not someone acting as an individual. Once you distribute a competitive product you need to be very clear and careful in your statements.

Thanks for the link, but I should point out that the reference to StroBeam power controls doesn't appear to be referring to the DL250MKIII's at all. Unless I have missed something. I do agree that the DL250's don't appear to be competitive to anything that Lencarta sell, but it is still wrong to make a comment that was not confirmed. We can all knock other people/companies!

Best regards


Chris

Chris,
I don't think that I did make a comment, all I said was that I remember seeing a comment that someone else had made, I didn't say whether it was correct or not because, as I pointed out, I haven't seen the product myself - I was working at Focus and didn't have time to look at any other stands.

And I haven't knocked the product at all, all that I've done is to read what they themselves are saying about it on their own website and I've tried to interpret their statements, which is all that anyone can do when the information provided is obviously wrong.

What Strobeam say on their own website about the products they sell is of course entirely up to them, but it doesn't help when they call Ws watts, call f/ F, and describe 5.3 stops of adjustment as 7 stops, or appear to give incorrect information about the power output. Maybe it was all done in a rush and that things will be put right soon, and correct info will be put onto the site.

As I say, I know nothing about either the Company or their products, I have nothing whatever against them and I wish them well. You've bought into their product range, you're happy with what you've bought, that's all that matters.

 

[G2EWS]

Hi Garry,

I appreciate you coming back again.

Please note, as mentioned all I was doing is pointing out that you sell lights and appeared to be making a sweeping statement without substantiating it.

As someone who has 15,000 customers and many hundreds of suppliers it is something I just cannot agree with. Nor would I enter into a similar debate about what I would determine to be even a minor competitor.

Best regards

Chris

 

[artona]

As a working professional with over 34 years experience I got very excited about the Strobeams.

I have used Bowens and Elincrom for 25 years and they are superb. When I call them "current" my current Bowens Esprits are now 12 years old and I have used them almost every day. I possibly fire them at least 500 times a week and work for about 40 weeks per year so they have maybe fired an incredible quarter of a million times without an error, thats some going. I did recently buy a brand new bowens copy from ebay for £60. Its colour temperature is spot on, its fan cooled and recycles fast........its a puka studio flash, these cheap imports are getting so good.

But they are quite heavy and they require plugging in. They are PAT tested but a lot of places are getting pretty hot on not wanting you to plug electrical things in.

Speedlights are one answer but I would always be searching for AAs and they are not all that consistant.

I also need a flash with a fast recycling time. To be honest as a pro I am not that bothered about small technical descriptions but I am bothered about whether they will do the job and so far I have found that the Strobeams do it all.

Of course we all have different needs so one flash will not suit all

 

[HoppyUK]

Hi Garry,

I appreciate you coming back again.

Please note, as mentioned all I was doing is pointing out that you sell lights and appeared to be making a sweeping statement without substantiating it.

As someone who has 15,000 customers and many hundreds of suppliers it is something I just cannot agree with. Nor would I enter into a similar debate about what I would determine to be even a minor competitor.

Best regards

Chris

Garry is between a rock and a hard place. Inevitable really, and I'm sure he does his best to be impartial, but the Strobeam is certainly a potential Lencarta Li-on competitor.

The Strobeam looks good, but the spec is contradictory and the claims need substantiating. There seems to be a ready solution to that, in Strobeam's hands, or indeed anyone that has one of these units could do the most important power test very easily as I described above.

 

[HoppyUK]

The spec sheet is interesting but doesn't read quite right in a couple of places. The power should be easy enough to check approximately in a way we can all relate to - with a brolly.

I've just tried a 250Ws Elinchrom BX250Ri, fired it into a 100cm white umbrella and it measured f/16d3 at 1.0m, ISO 100. Distance measured from a plane across the nearest edge of the brolly. A 100cm double-diffuser softbox should be similar.

I then fitted an 18cm reflector (similar to the one on the Strobeam product page) and the power jumped more than two stops to f/32d4.

Edit: agree with Garry on power range. Full power down to 1/64th is a difference of six stops. Most manufacturers would claim seven for that though

As another comparison, I just tried the same test firing a Canon 580EX into that 100cm white brolly. It gave f/11d1 at full power (ISO100, 1.0m). Around 100Ws-ish equivalent, if you take the BX250Ri as a standard reference.

 

[Michael Sewell]

I saw the Strobeam briefly at Focus, and although the aesthetics aren't my thing, it wouldn't stop me purchasing if it was ideal for what I wanted. That said, I don't think I currently have a need for the specs provided at the moment.
The specs did read rather interestingly though, and I've noted some of the images from [user]JonathanRyan[/user] which give a nice indication of recycle speed and also short flash duration to stop the movement from the petals in his Asian wedding sequence.
Bearing in mind the other main competitor at the the moment are the Einsteins, they're basically ruled out due to the mains only mallarky. The one thing that did make me frown a bit was the cost, which is why I would require a definite "need" for a purchase, rather than a possible use.

 

[JonathanRyan]

Nice diplomatic answer Michael

What's the issue with the Einsteins? I thought they were battery / mains? I should probably know stuff like this....

 

[Michael Sewell]

The Einsteins had more er..... problems with the first version, and those have been addressed to some point with the V2
They are AC units, so will require a battery pack such as their own Vagabond pack, or maybe the Trionix etc
If they were "S" fit, I'd look closer at them, but they ain't :shrug:

 

[PaulBT68]

Don't know if this helps, but just tested the Strobeam DL250 MarkIII
Here are the reading i got:
Measured at ISO 100. 1 Metre Distance. With included reflector (12cm)no diffuser.
Meter Sekonic L-308S

Results:
1/1 - f/22.5
1/2 - f/16.5
1/4 - f/11.4
1/8 - f/8.05
1/16 - f/5.65
1/32 - f/4.05
1/64 - f/2.86

Now i'm not a technical person, but that to me seems pretty linear and what you would expect. Its an adjustment of 6 stops but is 7 stops of power. like has been said before, its how you interpret it. The website does not say 7 stops of adjustment, it say's 7 power variability steps which is correct. Did not measure the 3rd steps in-between.

Paul

P.S I was the Photographer Demonstrating these at Focus on the Monday and Tuesday. I was paid by Strobeam for those 2 days.
I use these lights myself and find them perfect for my needs. I wouldn't dare make any comments about Lencarta's lights as i have never used them.

 

[Garry Edwards]

Paul,

Before I comment, let me say once again that I'm posting as a photographer who knows and cares about lighting. I don't represent Lencarta in this thread, even though the bit immediately below my name says that I'm an advertiser, and even though my signature, showing my link to Lencarta, may or may not appear, I don't have any control over that. If I was wearing my Lencarta hat then I would post under the Lencarta identity, so your edited addition is unnecessary.

I wish I had had a chance to see these lights while I was at Focus, I'm always interested in seeing products new to this country and your products seem to offer advantages over more traditional hotshoe flashes, especially in terms of recycling speed, which seems to me to be excellent.

Your flash energy results are pretty much what I would expect from a powerful hotshoe flash fitted with a very efficient reflector. People need to appreciate just how much difference an efficient reflector makes to the flash energy readings. It's clear that the choice of reflector can make a massive difference to the recorded readings, even though each of these reflectors that I used in the tests below has a 'soft' anodised finish that doesn't anywhere near maximise the potential energy readings. Highly polished reflectors can easily appear to produce 4x as much power, but have the severe drawback that the light is so harsh that it's virtually unusable unless it's then diffused. IMO the only useful test of actual power is a direct comparison test against other makes, either with no reflector fitted or with the same diffuser fitted to each.

For comparison, I've just tested a slightly less powerful flash head (200 Ws) at 1 metre, and with the standard reflector the reading was dead on f/22.
Fitted with a wideangle reflector instead though, the effective power dropped 0.8 stop to f/16.2 and when I replaced that with a high intensity reflector the power doubled (from the original) to f/32.

Actually it's more normal to test at a distance of 2m, so I did that too. Light is now bouncing around the room to some extent, this skews the figures but gives a bit more of a real world result.
Wide angle reflector f8 d1
Standard reflector f/8 d8
High intensity reflector f/11 d5

Some of the most realistic figures are obtained at a distance of 3m, the drawback at this distance though is that the figures are strongly influenced by the environment - a professional studio like mine, with black ceiling and distant walls will produce much lower figures than a small, all-white studio.
The figures in my own studio at a distance of 3m are
Wide angle reflector f/5.6 d2
Standard reflector f/5.6 d9
High intensity reflector f/8 d 4

So,
1 metre = figures that produce impressive results but which take little or no account of environmental conditions
2 metre = figures that are perhaps a reasonable compromise, allowing for some environmental factors
3 metre = figures that would be real world if only everyone had the same size studio with the same decoration.

Not that actual energy performance figures are all that important anyway, at least in a studio situation. These benchmark guide number tests were highly relevant when everyone was shooting on film and when they were pretty limited to 100 ISO, or when digital cameras first came out and produced awful image quality at anything greater than 100 ISO (think Nikon D100 or Kodak DCS14) but with modern digital cameras, it's normally OK to double or even quadruple the ISO figure, effectively doubling or quadrupling the effective flash power, although of course power is vitally important outdoors, when a flash system is competing with ambient light.

 

[fototraining]

Garry,

I don't think it matters if someone is posting under the guise of a competitor or as a photographer. If you've not seen them let alone use them, are you qualified to comment?
Yes there are some inconsistencies on the website, which I am sure will be corrected. But they have certainly not tried to deceive anyone and to suggest otherwise is very dangerous.

Oops, have posted under my other name, but I am the same person as PaulBT68

 

[DemiLion]

Garry,

I don't think it matters if someone is posting under the guise of a competitor or as a photographer. If you've not seen them let alone use them, are you qualified to comment?
Yes there are some inconsistencies on the website, which I am sure will be corrected. But they have certainly not tried to deceive anyone and to suggest otherwise is very dangerous.

Oops, have posted under my other name, but I am the same person as PaulBT68

Personally I don't see anything wrong with Garry posting, as long as his isn't being disingenuous; and I say that as a Strobeam user.

More importantly can you explain why you have two accounts, which is an automatic banning offence (unless one of them is a sponsor's account)?

 

[fototraining]

DemiLion,
The part of Garry's posting i had a slight issue with was "Well, that's 7 different power settings, not 7 stops of adjustment - I suppose I'm just one of those strange people who likes information to be accurate and truthful. If I wanted to 'interpret' figures I could say that the Lencarta Safari Li-on had 7.3 stops of adjustment - but it "only" has a true 6.3 stops so I won't"

I don't have a problem with the rest of Garry's posts as he is usually spot on with most things, but on this occasion Strobeam don't claim 7 stops of adjustment but 7 different power settings.

In regards to accounts, i didn't even know i had 2 until i visited the site on my iPad and it automatically logged me on under another account.and also did not know it was not allowed :shrug:

I will promptly delete the other one before the Forum police ban me.