Strikers

[clud17]

has anyone else ordered any gear and are now sat waiting in the hope that the postal strike isnt going to mess things up. I ordered some filters from Camera Warehouse. Tomorrow is the expected delivery but i dont hold out hope.

In South Yorkshire we now have Firemen, Postal Workers and Council Workers on strike. So who's next?:shake: is it really the way forward holding the public to ransome? I dont agree do you?

 

[IanC]

I thought royal mail workers were quite well paid anyway? so if they are striking about money then its a pretty poor reason imo....people who deserve to be paid more are nurses etc

 

[clud17]

Funny you should say that Ian, im a Mental Health Nurse and you are my new best friend. I have a pretty good job so my pay is reasonable. Even i i thought it wasn't i have a duty of care and therfore striking is not an option in my profession.

 

[Mangelwurzel]

I thought royal mail workers were quite well paid anyway? so if they are striking about money then its a pretty poor reason imo....people who deserve to be paid more are nurses etc

I'm sorry but thats a typical ignorant comment from someone who has no idea what the industrial action is about and doesn't spend 10 minutes looking into it before putting the world to rights.
No - the strike isn't about pay, even though postal workers haven't had a cost of living payrise for 2 years on the trott.

Funny you should say that Ian, im a Mental Health Nurse and you are my new best friend. I have a pretty good job so my pay is reasonable. Even i i thought it wasn't i have a duty of care and therfore striking is not an option in my profession.

NHS staff are the first to threaten strikes over pay.

I think you chaps should look into both sides of the argument a bit more before sticking your oar in :nono:

 

[clud17]

My thread asked is it the way forward to strike. I never mentioned pay Mangelwurzel. I am just curious what others think. I don't beleive that by striking and therefore essentially hurting the general public is the right way to solve any dispute wether it be pay or working conditions.

I am a member of the RCN and i have to say i have never received a ballot paper asking me of my opinion on strike action. I cant speak for Unison members, they generally cover all workers in the NHS and not solely Nurses. To say we are the first to move to this action is incorrect. I have been a nurse for 10 years and have never seen strike action. My mother was a Nurse for 40 years and she too never took industrial action. I have a code of conduct i have to work to to remain on a professional register and dont believe that industrial action is in accordance with this code.

 

[purplepaul]

I think the lot should be sacked and replaced by a work force who WANT TO WORK.

This comment might sound harsh but i used to work for royal mail for over 6 years and the institution is built on inherant layzness.

 

[Mangelwurzel]

I have been a nurse for 10 years and have never seen strike action. My mother was a Nurse for 40 years and she too never took industrial action.

Taking industrial action and threatening industrial action are two different things. When the RCN act the government usually jump so striking usually never happens and health workers usually get what they want.
And quite rightly so in most cases.
The mail industry might not seem as important as the health sector but that doesn't mean it doesn't affect the employees and families equally.

I think the lot should be sacked and replaced by a work force who WANT TO WORK.

This comment might sound harsh but i used to work for royal mail for over 6 years and the institution is built on inherant layzness.

Retarded neanderthal comment of the day. Out of the tens of thousands of Royal Mail employees, please do not tarnish us all with the lazy brush

 

[purplepaul]

No its not. I work there for years and my mother still works there. the back bone of the workforce at the mail centres are the old firm who have been there for years and dont want to change and the militant nature of the CWU doesn't help.
I know the strike is over working conditions not so much the pay but do the workers of royal mail give a t0ss that they are forcing us small busness owners to the dogs? NO

 

[Mangelwurzel]

do the workers of royal mail give a t0ss that they are forcing us small busness owners to the dogs? NO

Do business owners care that 8 part time Royal Mail employees are now expected to do the work of what was 10 full time employees? Do they care that RM workers have been paying into a pension scheme and for 8 years that money was not invested on their behalf, but invested in schemes and blown on automation software that doesn't work?

No they don't. A selfish world isn't it? :shrug:

 

[purplepaul]

we will have to agree to disagree. but who can blame me for feeling bitter when i have 3k(value to me not cost) stuck some where and it could be weeks till i get it losing me money and effecting my reputation.

 

[stokecity_m]

we will have to agree to disagree. but who can blame me for feeling bitter when i have 3k(value to me not cost) stuck some where and it could be weeks till i get it losing me money and effecting my reputation.

the strikes have been in the pipe line for weeks - you could of just used another delivery company?

 

[clud17]

Well, the NHS will loose a large chunk of its budget in two years time. The trust i work for is already talking of a freeze on recruiting which will mean as people move on the ones left will be doing the same work with less workers. Recession sucks heh. couldn't the majority of the working class in this country build cases for better conditions and appropriate renumeration.

How does striking work out in the long term. Will the small busineses turn to Royal Mail for a good confident service or will they chooses alternative couriers, are the Royal Mail workers in effect Jeoperdizing their own jobs?

 

[Mangelwurzel]

How does striking work out in the long term. Will the small busineses turn to Royal Mail for a good confident service or will they chooses alternative couriers, are the Royal Mail workers in effect Jeoperdizing their own jobs?

Royal mail is probably doomed. They were doomed the day the government allowed TNT/DHL/UKMail/CityLink to undercut RM business but forced RM to deliver that mail anyway.
Next time your postie calls, check your doormat and see how many items actually say TNT/DHL/UKMail/CityLink Mail. Did you have 5-10 different postman that day from different companies? No.

You might have in the future though. And on that day you will reminisce about how your postman arrived at 7am with a smile on their face, picked up your paper from the newsagent, changed your lightbulbs and put your bins out (and yes i've done this for all my customers)

 

[ladysue]

The strikers are harming themselves as well as the businesses that have goods and money in the postal system. More firms will turn to other carriers, in fact they already are. Many wont return to the Royal Mail and so jobs will be lost.

When I was working in the NHS a few years ago we were always facing cuts in our department. I worked with people with learning disabilities which isnt a high priority area and we were an easy target.The NHS trust I worked for was in the red and cuts had to be made somewhere.

A lot of government organisations are already facing cuts and many privately owned businesses are struggling. We are all going to have to tighten our belts.Its not a good time to strike, even if you have a good case.

 

[clud17]

Royal mail is probably doomed. They were doomed the day the government allowed TNT/DHL/UKMail/CityLink to undercut RM business but forced RM to deliver that mail anyway.
Next time your postie calls, check your doormat and see how many items actually say TNT/DHL/UKMail/CityLink Mail. Did you have 5-10 different postman that day from different companies? No.

You might have in the future though. And on that day you will reminisce about how your postman arrived at 7am with a smile on their face, picked up your paper from the newsagent, changed your lightbulbs and put your bins out (and yes i've done this for all my customers)

Good for you then, and can you come and deliver my post then as i get mine about 14.00hrs without much of a smile. My bin is gonna need emptying soon as the bin men are planning a strike very soon.

Seriously though, lets hope for everyone's sake that things can be resolved soon with all those involved happy.

 

[Mangelwurzel]

Good for you then, and can you come and deliver my post then as i get mine about 14.00hrs without much of a smile.

Yes. Unfortunately later delivery times are a knock on effect of the modernization. Your postal worker doesn't arrive at your house at that time through choice. The removal of night shifts/early shifts means mail gets sorted later which means postman get out on the street later.
It will get later and later too as they adopt the EU 9-5 rule. At worst case you might have to go and collect your mail from your nearest sorting office as they do in much of the EU.

Food for thought isn't it...protect YOUR postal service

 

[Pieface]

Royal Mail would have more support I reckon if they did it at a better time. When coming out of a recession slowly with millions unemployed (And would probably love to replace those for the job) is just poor taste.

Labour partly to blame as well though, as yet again they let the Unions take control.

 

[Matt]

this is an argument we have had before. Looking through the press though it seems that the postal unions are doing more harm than good. Amazon have started using other services, how long before others do? the company i work for now wont send via royal mail unless its a second class letter, its not a lot, but its probably one part-timers wage...

 

[cambsno]

The strikers should be sacked and jobs given to people who want to work. All companies have to modernise and RM is no exception. It is action like this that send business customers away from RM and will cost more jobs in the long run - but most of the workers dont see this.

 

[whiteflyer]

Royal mail is probably doomed. They were doomed the day the government allowed TNT/DHL/UKMail/CityLink to undercut RM business but forced RM to deliver that mail anyway.
Next time your postie calls, check your doormat and see how many items actually say TNT/DHL/UKMail/CityLink Mail. Did you have 5-10 different postman that day from different companies? No.

You might have in the future though. And on that day you will reminisce about how your postman arrived at 7am with a smile on their face, picked up your paper from the newsagent, changed your lightbulbs and put your bins out (and yes i've done this for all my customers)

What should happen is the RM are allowed to renegotiate the deals with TNT/DHL/UKMail/CityLink to make it that RM make a profit from these companies. I just can't understand why this has not happened, if as the government want RM is privatized then this will be one of the first things on the list.


If reported correctly, I do think the leader of the CWU said a stupid thing when saying the union was stronger than the miners under Scargill, just look how many mines are open now due to an ill advised strike.

 

[arclight]

this is an argument we have had before. Looking through the press though it seems that the postal unions are doing more harm than good. Amazon have started using other services, how long before others do? the company i work for now wont send via royal mail unless its a second class letter, its not a lot, but its probably one part-timers wage...

John Lewis are going elsewhere too. Independent carriers will likely demand long contracts in return for helping out.
Before I buy anything now I check out who the carrier is. I have already had several mail items not reach their destination.

 

[Photo Plod]

Mind you, I don't think much of Amazon's new delivery company, Home Delivery Network. The other day, I had a package arrive for No. 27 (I live at No. 1). I found a note pushed through my door informing me that "my" parcel had been left behind the gate. I went outside and found that the package had been thrown halfway down my garden and was lodged somewhat in one of my flowerbeds.

The theory goes that private commercial companies should be more competitive, because there are alternatives to them. However - despite being a blue-flag waving Tory - I can't think of an occasion where the private sector has taken over any public service and actually done a better job than what went before. Agency workers in the NHS? Nope. Privatised rail companies? Nope. Mail services? Nope. They all seem to try to squeeze as much profit out of whatever service they run by employing the cheapest labour they can afford, and provide an even worse service than the public sector. I'm not all misty-eyed and pretending that public services are universally excellent, but at least they can be held to account.

I'm not sure how I feel about strike action. Certainly, I don't like many changes that have happened to the Royal Mail over the years; I especially hate the way that I don't get my mail in the morning like I used to, and I miss having a friendly postman, who has been replaced by an endless succession of part-time Polish temps. However, I can't help but think that strike action is going to harm the RM's business even more, leading to even more duff commercial companies taking over. I don't have any solution to offer, though.

In my experience, people who work in useful public services generally do so because they want to, and most just want to be left to get on with their jobs. Unfortunately, the downside of public sector work these days seems to be endless management interference, which is clueless, political and media-driven.

 

[kelack]

I'd like to have sympathy for them but I don't. My husband didn't get a cost of living increase for 2 years either and in fact they took a pay cut to try and keep all their jobs. It didn't work and he's been out of work for 7 months coming up for 8, for every job he goes for there's 50+ other applicants, for manual jobs, he's over-qualified. My Dad worked in the city for 20 odd years and towards the end, he was taking pay cut after pay cut just to keep his job too.

I know plenty of people that aren't getting the pay rises but even more so are struggling to keep their houses as they've been out of work.

 

[Derek_F]

Reading some of the comments here, some people have no idea...

we will leave aside the fact that some postmen are expected to do 2-3 hrs unpaid overtime everyday.
and the fact that COE of RM is also a director of TNT
And the bit that if say TNT say to a company, we`ll deliver your letters for 32p, RM cant go back & say we will match, do it for 31p, then pass it to RM for delivery @ 5p per letter. ( That was the brain wave of mr Mandelson & the RM boss)


not everything is as balck & white a some of you may think...

 

[Flash In The Pan]

Reading some of the comments here, some people have no idea...

we will leave aside the fact that some postmen are expected to do 2-3 hrs unpaid overtime everyday.
and the fact that COE of RM is also a director of TNT
And the bit that if say TNT say to a company, we`ll deliver your letters for 32p, RM cant go back & say we will match, do it for 31p, then pass it to RM for delivery @ 5p per letter. ( That was the brain wave of mr Mandelson & the RM boss)


not everything is as balck & white a some of you may think...

One of the main bones of contention is that the RM are requesting that delivery workers walk 4.5 milrs per day, against the 3.5 miles they do now. That is, except in Scotland, where the posties already have a 4.5 mile route, but don't get paid any more money than those south of the border.

Souther softies :shake:

 

[russdaz]

The biggest issue witrh the RM in this case is it wasnt ever started to make a proper profit. If it wasnt a a public company it would have gone completely mainy years ago.

They brought in the delevery companys in to try and force the RM to be competive, to reduce the cost, but went the wrong way to try and sort it out. Instead the other companys took the profit arms away from the RM, meaning it makes more of lose.

The unions havent help the matter at times by being there own worst enemys, with some of the most silly reasons, just adding to the lose the RM has been making. (I served my apprenticeship with them so seen it first hand in many different offices)

One of the biggest issues here is we all like paying a few pennys for a stamp (the cost of a stamp isnt much more then when i swas a kid) that hasnt risen enough to cover all the cost increases, meaning automation will be the only to make a profit for first class post, at the cost of jobs yes. Not all Rm workers are lazy, but there is alot that will use any excuse to walk out, its those that have harmed the RM over the last few years. Continued action will just speed up the what i feel is inevitable in the end of the RM.

Parcelforce managed to to turn major losses to profits, the RM could to if it made the changes that would be required, but job loses would follow for sure.

 

[russdaz]

Reading some of the comments here, some people have no idea...

we will leave aside the fact that some postmen are expected to do 2-3 hrs unpaid overtime everyday.
and the fact that COE of RM is also a director of TNT
And the bit that if say TNT say to a company, we`ll deliver your letters for 32p, RM cant go back & say we will match, do it for 31p, then pass it to RM for delivery @ 5p per letter. ( That was the brain wave of mr Mandelson & the RM boss)


not everything is as balck & white a some of you may think...

Yeah thats a bit of a joke isnt it.

 

[Mangelwurzel]

One of the main bones of contention is that the RM are requesting that delivery workers walk 4.5 milrs per day, against the 3.5 miles they do now. That is, except in Scotland, where the posties already have a 4.5 mile route, but don't get paid any more money than those south of the border.

Souther softies :shake:

Thats not quite right. It's 4.5 miles per hour (a pace not a distance). Deliveries take 3 and a half hours supposedly (although on most days its way over this).
As the americans say - do the math! It's alot more walking than 4.5 miles

 

[cambsno]

Reading some of the comments here, some people have no idea...

we will leave aside the fact that some postmen are expected to do 2-3 hrs unpaid overtime everyday.
and the fact that COE of RM is also a director of TNT
And the bit that if say TNT say to a company, we`ll deliver your letters for 32p, RM cant go back & say we will match, do it for 31p, then pass it to RM for delivery @ 5p per letter. ( That was the brain wave of mr Mandelson & the RM boss)

not everything is as balck & white a some of you may think...

Rubbish. A old mate of mine was a postie and they get given a timescale for rounds. If his due to work till 1pm but finishes his round at 11am he then gets another round to do and he gets overtime rates for this. If they dont like conditions why not get a different job and let one of the thousands of people looking for jobs take over.

 

[KIPAX]

Unions closed down more factories in this country than adolfs bombs did.... Bring back Maggie... she knew how to handle strikers and unions... More balls than any other prime minister in my lifetime...


Salt anyone?

 

[Matt]

My brother and sisterinlaw are both posties, they have a setround but have both had a road added to their round, all in it adds 30 mins to the route. Both have been told by the union rep to refuse it, even though they used to finish at least 45 mins early every day. Both have also been told to work slower by the rep as they are too efficient. Make your own minds up about who is in the wrong-management who must know that the workers can be more efficient, or the union dinosaurs bullying grafters to become slackers

 

[Steep]

They can vote to change their union rep matty, no rule says they have to accept a bullying dinosaur.

Don't ignore the role of the media in this affair, what the media reports and the way they present it make a huge impact on public perception. It's plain to see that the union in this case does not have the backing of the media (do they ever?), you very seldom see a quote from a union rep but any half wit government minister who opens his mouth gets plenty of coverage.

As for unions v management, there has to be a balance, if the unions get too powerful they can hold companies to ransom. If the unions are too weak then management take advantage of the workforce (believe me here, I've seen it).

 

[Squawk]

I have mixed feelings.

I do not believe that the unions have the public in mind, much as they claim to. It makes absolutely no difference to me who delivers the mail or what the source is. Likewise, it makes precisely no difference to the postie which service is being used. The package is going to be sent regardless.

It does make a difference to the business itself. If royal mail is now delivering mail for less because they accept the mail from 3rd parties then the business model is flawed and royal mail will fold. That is an issue for the upper echelons of royal mail and is not something that the posties should be involved in.

The only reason for the postie on the street or the man in the sorting office to strike is for issues that affect them directly. As I see it, there are two possibilities, working conditions and pay.

Pay becomes a non-starter, the net income of my own family has dropped this year as people have taken pay cuts. Not pay cuts when corrected for inflation, actual year on year pay cuts from being in an industry that is struggling in the recession.

If it's working conditions then I wish to know what has changed.

For a start, a typical working day is 9-5, with say an hour for lunch. Thats a 7 hour shift of actual work. The pace of work during that 7 hours should be steady and consistent. I would like to see average total weight of a posties daily load, average walking distance and average time taken, and a comparison from a year or two years ago.

I do not believe that more than a small minority are working overtime without pay, do you have figures?

I have packages coming, I suspect they will not be here when I want them due to the strike action and it is annoying.

 

[Mangelwurzel]

My brother and sisterinlaw are both posties, they have a setround but have both had a road added to their round, all in it adds 30 mins to the route. Both have been told by the union rep to refuse it, even though they used to finish at least 45 mins early every day. Both have also been told to work slower by the rep as they are too efficient. Make your own minds up about who is in the wrong-management who must know that the workers can be more efficient, or the union dinosaurs bullying grafters to become slackers

We've had this discussion before but that union rep is an arse. Whenever i've been instructed by a union official they've always said do the job to the best of your ability but do the job properly (i.e no early starting/using your own car for delivery etc).
Throughout the business, Mon/Tue/Sat are light days. Wed/Thurs/Fri are heavy days. I have no objection to Royal Mail making me work the hours i'm paid for. Any other company would be the same.
I've had my hours adjusted in the last few years so that i work more hours on Wed/Thur/Fri than i do on Mon/Tue/Sat. It's no problem.
What is a problem is when i've made 20 minutes on a monday and tuesday (because i've worked hard and not dawdled) and on friday i get the "well you owe 40 minutes so you can work on" routine. Well that just isn't on when i have kids to pick up from school and a wife that needs to get to work. I'm quite happy to work on extra Monday and Tuesday sorting mail for Wednesday but the management can't seem to cope with that. It's what we used to do in the old days. Get ready for the next day

It makes absolutely no difference to me who delivers the mail or what the source is.

You might think differently if and when RM fold and you are waiting in all day for a parcel wondering which of the 5 usual postman will deliver it.
I'll tell you one thing. TNT won't pick up your family postcard from Scotland and deliver it to the middle of nowhere on Bodmin Moor for 35p.

If royal mail is now delivering mail for less because they accept the mail from 3rd parties then the business model is flawed and royal mail will fold.

Royal Mail aren't accepting it. The government are enforcing it.
Next time you pick the letters from your doormat see how many are for TNT/UKMail/CityLink etc. Do you really think Royal Mail would deliver this if they had a choice? Of course not. They'd say, well you undercut so you deliver it

 

[arclight]

My brother and sisterinlaw are both posties, they have a setround but have both had a road added to their round, all in it adds 30 mins to the route. Both have been told by the union rep to refuse it, even though they used to finish at least 45 mins early every day. Both have also been told to work slower by the rep as they are too efficient. Make your own minds up about who is in the wrong-management who must know that the workers can be more efficient, or the union dinosaurs bullying grafters to become slackers

That is so reminicent of the days when the car industry was tormented by all the Red Robbo types.

 

[Squawk]

You might think differently if and when RM fold and you are waiting in all day for a parcel wondering which of the 5 usual postman will deliver it.
I'll tell you one thing. TNT won't pick up your family postcard from Scotland and deliver it to the middle of nowhere on Bodmin Moor for 35p.

What I mean is that it makes no difference to me who delivers it as long as it is delivered and on time. If services are impacted there is a problem, but then I don't see that as being an issue for the posties. That is an issue for the upper echelons of royal mail and the govt.

Royal Mail aren't accepting it. The government are enforcing it.
Next time you pick the letters from your doormat see how many are for TNT/UKMail/CityLink etc. Do you really think Royal Mail would deliver this if they had a choice? Of course not. They'd say, well you undercut so you deliver it

I agree entirely, but again I don't think this is an issue for the posties to strike over. This is an issue for Royal Mail and the govt to sort out between themselves. I don't see how strike action on the part of the workers can have any effect other than to disrupt services and cause negative feelings.

Don't get me wrong, I think its a shambles that these other companies can do what they do with royal mail. I just disagree that posties should be striking over it. I don't see that they can have an impact other than a negative one on the people who rely on the post.

 

[SarahLee]

Sorry, but whatever the issue striking is rarely a constructive way forward and in this instance it's just plain wrong.

Fewer workers having to deal with the same volume of work.
A couple of hours of unpaid overtime a day being the norm.
No cost of living pay increase.
Competition / demand driving prices downward and reducing profits.

Yes, IT STINKS.
But this is not unique to the Royal Mail. It's endemic to the UK at the moment. There's not one person I know in ANY industry who is not in the same or similar position.

The difference in many other industries is that the workers can't afford to employ bully-boy striking tactics to disrupt public services and get their own way.
For many, particularly those in small firms, downing tools would just see their company go under and land them out of a job.

So let's put this in perspective. We're officially in a recession. There's an increasing number of unemployed desperate to get back to work, but no jobs out there for them.
It might also be tough for those who are working, but be grateful for small mercies and that you do have a job.
And never mind no cost of living increase. Many companies and services have been asking employees to take pay-cuts or work for free just to keep afloat.

 

[willbaroo]

Sorry, but whatever the issue striking is rarely a constructive way forward and in this instance it's just plain wrong.

Fewer workers having to deal with the same volume of work.
A couple of hours of unpaid overtime a day being the norm.
No cost of living pay increase.
Competition / demand driving prices downward and reducing profits.

Yes, IT STINKS.
But this is not unique to the Royal Mail. It's endemic to the UK at the moment. There's not one person I know in ANY industry who is not in the same or similar position.

The difference in many other industries is that the workers can't afford to employ bully-boy striking tactics to disrupt public services and get their own way.
For many, particularly those in small firms, downing tools would just see their company go under and land them out of a job.

So let's put this in perspective. We're officially in a recession. There's an increasing number of unemployed desperate to get back to work, but no jobs out there for them.
It might also be tough for those who are working, but be grateful for small mercies and that you do have a job.
And never mind no cost of living increase. Many companies and services have been asking employees to take pay-cuts or work for free just to keep afloat.

Amen to that.

I don't get overtime regardless of how long I stay on at work. I don't get sick pay. I haven't had a pay rise let alone a cost of living payrise in nearly 18months and there certainly isn't one on the cards. The company I work for has made people redundant thus leaving us with more work to do.

Like alot of people you learn to pull your socks up, suck it in and deal with it.

God help me if I / we went on strike - our clients would suffer and ultimately the company I work for.

I'm just effing greatfull that I still have a job!

 

[KIPAX]

Well said SarahLee and willbaroo

 

[Flash In The Pan]

Quote of the week - one of the pickets being interviewed on Sky News...

"If the public are unhappy about this they can write to their MP <thinks about what he just said>.....I mean send them an email "