storing your photos

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wombcorps

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Name
sarah
Edit My Images
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how do you do it? I now have 2 full computers and a full external hard drive i cant afford to buy another one, plus i need to back some stuff up still.

was just wondering how people deal with the massive amounts of files ammassed while taking photos. just this last week i've had 7gig of photos i need to keep :shrug:

Just to let you know, i always keep the fullsize RAW, and an edited jpeg. some galeries (depending on why and how they will be used) ill keep the fullsize RAW edited and unedited, as well as sometimes having 2 different sets of jpegs...for EACH gallery.

how do you deal with this?

I can't really delete any old RAW files as i work for the same promoters still (nightlife photgraphy) and dont believe i should delete things anyways in case i need it in the future. what are the options, and what is the cheapest option? like i said i just dont have the money, let alone the space to back up exisitng stuff on more harddrives.
 
I have only just started shooting using RAW and have noticed how quick the space disappears. I'm an IT engineer and have a windows 2003 server with raid5 and in excess of 2TB of storage so It isnt that much of an issue but i shot about 27GB of photos while I was on holiday for 2 weeks. I can see how this can become a problem.

I do have 4 or 5 external hard drives and a stack of older drives that I can always connect to a USB adaptor and fill or use as a backup. it works out cheaper than an external drive and you then just need to store the drives and remember what is on what.
 
yeah i have a 3.5" hard drive case which i can put any hard drive into and have no problems doing this, however space and weight is an issue. i already have 2 computers and a hard drive and desperatley need to back up the 2TB or so i already have before i even think about starting to fill up another fresh HD. i generally dont trust TB HD's as your f****d if it fails unless you got enough money to have another one backing it up...

what about burning to DVD? is it worth it? besides cant dvd only hold 7.5G or something (which would mean for some galleires having 2 dvds!)

so frustrating, i have literally run out of room and wont have money fo another hard drive until at least the new year but am in desperate need of some storage solutions by the weeknd let alone waiting a few months
 
2 external hard drives. I burn each compact flash card to CD and copy to both external HDs after a shoot and store only keepers on my computer HD. Upload some images to flickr and the good ones to my website.

I'm thinking of getting a Drobo though to make things easier... although that shouldn't be used as a backup device unless you can be arsed carrying it off site every day.
 
Can you use winzip/winrar on RAW files without effecting them? Try compressing them maybe?

If you can't afford £70+ for a HDD backing up to bluray obviously isn't an option either. P

Personally, I would suggest going through the older images and if you have an acceptable jpeg of the image then delete the RAW file. It's rare you'll want to go back and re-edit the image so save the disk space and delete :)
 
Given that you cannot afford a hard drive then the obvious choice remaining open to you is dvd. Single layer dvds will hold about 4.3gb or just under. Buy them in bulk 50 or 100, from online specialist suppliers. You'll need something to store them in too as the discs have no cases.

Given that dvds/cds can and do fail over time, if you value your work then burn your photos to two discs - of different brands. And keep one of these outside the house - external garage, relative, friend etc. Ignore this at your peril.

You can also convert your RAWs to DNG , delete the RAW, and save about 20% space.
 
Harvey_nikon said:
Personally, I would suggest going through the older images and if you have an acceptable jpeg of the image then delete the RAW file. It's rare you'll want to go back and re-edit the image so save the disk space and delete :)
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Noooooooooooooooo, don't understand why you'd do that? - Its deleting the negative. I think that just bitting the bullet and buying a load of DVD's and backing up to them for the short term is the way forward. Remember they'll only last a couple of years so when circumstance allows you'll need to invest in a better solution and copy them to it.

Hugh
 
Possibly not an option- but will mention it anyway: mozy online backup. Its $5 a month (about £3.70), for unlimited space- the only limit is your broadband. Its always "catching" up with my images, but I know that most of them are safe :)
 
This might be better in the computers etc forum, as there are a few similar threads.

My system is split into two, all raw files I import into Lightroom are stored on an external drive (or a network drive if I'm back at base, these are synced regularly) I call this my archive. Working files are converted to DNG (smaller than raw and holds metadata within the file) on my laptop HD, backed up to an external drive along with all the contents of the HD and also backed up online. I get rid of all the shots I don't think I'll use and if I haven't used an image (or decided it is 100% essential to keep) after 6 months that goes from my laptop too, as if I need to get hold of it again it is in my archive.

I very rarely keep output files, jpegs/tiffs as I just recreate them when I need to.

The other option is take less images :p
 
You've not mentioned what hard drives you got? You might actually benefit to upgrading to 1TB SATA II drives which can cost between £50-£60 although its not cheaper than buying a spindle of 100 single layer dvds but it is a much better and faster option.
 
BalSanghera said:
You've not mentioned what hard drives you got? You might actually benefit to upgrading to 1TB SATA II drives which can cost between £50-£60 although its not cheaper than buying a spindle of 100 single layer dvds but it is a much better and faster option.
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If you read the OP- it says he doesn't have any money for more hard drives :)
 
I was thinking of online storage- cheap, unlimited and it has to be reliable, the only thing to hold you up is our broadband!!! Unless you have a good fibre optic connection..?! Even so you know it is safe if you ever have a fire or anything...
 
Online Storage is a big no no, as if the server ever goes down etc and you have no backup you are pretty much screwed...

@aligibbs I did see the OP but investing in a 1TB could solve all his problems for a good few years.
 
Any decent online storage should have geographically redundant back ups, so a problem with one of their servers shouldn't cause too many problems. The best policy is to have 2 backups in different places, what if you house burns down, or someone breaks in stealing all your computer equipment, including the external drive with your backup?

Having said that, if the OP is making money from photography, or is needing to keep the files for clients, back up should be factored into his cost of doing business and should be charging accordingly.
 
BalSanghera said:
Online Storage is a big no no, as if the server ever goes down etc and you have no backup you are pretty much screwed...

@aligibbs I did see the OP but investing in a 1TB could solve all his problems for a good few years.
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BalSanghera- please get your facts right. I suggested Mozyhome as they have redundant servers- offer backups to massive companies- it's not a single server/disk you are uploading to!
 
I think you should reconsider your addiction to RAW. Is it really necessary to use RAW for nightclub photography? Everything that's published ends up as a JPG anyway. I'd be interested to know what advantage RAW gives you when it comes to the end result (I presume web publishing for nightclub stuff).

For situations where you're shooting for volume (rather than getting that one perfect landscape for instance), in my opinion JPG is the most appropriate format.

Try doing a shoot in basic JPG, publish the results, and ask 10 people if they can tell the difference.

I'd wager not.

However you'll love the extra speed, from the operation of the camera to download, processing, and upload time. And you'll love the tiny file sizes.

From what you've said you simply cannot afford to continue using RAW. A good reason in itself to stop.
 
wombcorps said:
Just to let you know, i always keep the fullsize RAW, and an edited jpeg. some galeries (depending on why and how they will be used) ill keep the fullsize RAW edited and unedited, as well as sometimes having 2 different sets of jpegs...for EACH gallery.

how do you deal with this?
Click to expand...

Sounds like you need a program that does non destructive edits. With Aperture, I end up with the original RAW file, and a bunch of metadata used to generate the edits. You can then output the JPEGs, gallery etc... when required and delete them when you're done, safe in the knowledge that they can easily be recreated as and when needed.

I believe Lightroom works in a similar way, but I've never used it, so can't be sure.

I'd have thought working that way would substantially cut down on the amount of space you're using.
 
Uploading 2Tb of data to an online backup service over a home broadband connection is gonna take some time, Mozy reckon about 2-4Gb/day!!!
 
Jim.R said:
I believe Lightroom works in a similar way, but I've never used it, so can't be sure.
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yep exactly the same way.If you want to edit in photoshop it generate PS edittable files for you, but other then that it just stores the RAW and metadata.
 
aligibbs said:
BalSanghera- please get your facts right. I suggested Mozyhome as they have redundant servers- offer backups to massive companies- it's not a single server/disk you are uploading to!
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And when the company goes bust - you and your data are screwed.

As for not being able to afford a new drive - a 1TB drive costs around £60 and a docking station is less than £20. At 7GB a week that'll last over 2.5 years!
 
hollis_f said:
And when the company goes bust - you and your data are screwed.

As for not being able to afford a new drive - a 1TB drive costs around £60 and a docking station is less than £20. At 7GB a week that'll last over 2.5 years!
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Have fun when you have a fire/flood etc :)
 
aligibbs said:
BalSanghera- please get your facts right. I suggested Mozyhome as they have redundant servers- offer backups to massive companies- it's not a single server/disk you are uploading to!
Click to expand...

Hold your horses fella, my response was to post 12 I didnt even see your post about Mozyhome... In anycase I still think online storage is a bad idea as a main back up... I have been in a position were I had online storage where I used to upload my video clips I use to create... talking about 5gb of online space.

Company was great, prices were great but one day something went badly wrong and I lost all my data, after god knows how many emails apprantly when it came down to it they were only a reseller like many other companies who offer online storage and the actual data centre recycled the data after 30 days and my clips had disappeared for good. Looked at the T&C and it cleraly states that I was responsible of creating backups of the online backups :shrug:

My suggestion is invest in a good decent hard drive, the 1TB F1 Samsung Spin Points with 32mb cache are very good and nicely priced. I know have 4 of these drives.
 
If funds for more storage are completely out of the question, the only way forward is to rationalise what you've already got stored.

Do you really need to keep the edited RAWs AND the JPEG? Surely you can just recreate the JPEG from the RAW if needed?

I assume you upload the gallaries online once they're created? Why bother keeping them on your PC? Again, can't these be re-generated from the RAW files?

For the older stuff, do you need both the original AND edited RAW files still?

BalSanghera said:
Data can still be recovered from fire/flood damaged hard drives :nuts:
Click to expand...

I might try adding that into the next DR plan I write and see how it's recieved! :p
Anyway, if the OP can't afford a new HDD I suspect this will be well outside her budget :eek:
 
martsharm said:
I think you should reconsider your addiction to RAW. Is it really necessary to use RAW for nightclub photography? Everything that's published ends up as a JPG anyway. I'd be interested to know what advantage RAW gives you when it comes to the end result (I presume web publishing for nightclub stuff).

For situations where you're shooting for volume (rather than getting that one perfect landscape for instance), in my opinion JPG is the most appropriate format.

Try doing a shoot in basic JPG, publish the results, and ask 10 people if they can tell the difference.

I'd wager not.

However you'll love the extra speed, from the operation of the camera to download, processing, and upload time. And you'll love the tiny file sizes.

From what you've said you simply cannot afford to continue using RAW. A good reason in itself to stop.
Click to expand...

noooo! promoters often ask for my pics in RAW to use for masive promotional stuff, as well as jpegs for online. plus ive always preffered RAW, maybe some people cant tell the difference but i certainly can and wouldnt want to simply start shooting in jpeg for my pictures to get worse and have to turn down any requests for large, hi quiality pics for people to use.

as for uploading stuff online, id consider that as a backup - its cheap, but with my crap internet in norwich, not really an 'immediate' solution haha.

just to let you all know, i literraly have NO money for another hard drive. and if i did, i'd buy another 1TB but desperatley need to backup existing stuff before i fill it with new stuff. as well as photograhpy im a music producer and 100's of gigs of music that i need for mixing, all in wav/flac format that have cost a lot of money to buy and a lot of space to store.

i think the best option, looking at what everyones said, is to use DVD burning for now. Like i said earlier in the thread, I'll have some money coming in at the end of the year (ive been waiting for my crb to clear for a new job for 2 months now and having to live on a tight budget - so you can understand why im not keen on spending £70 on a hard drive when my money might not come for another few months!) and am planning on buying 2 ITB drives, one for backup of exisiting stuff that will get put at my mums house and the other, for new stuff. then ill buy another 1TB to backup the new stuff...phew!

I'm currently getting a website sorted so, once ive started uploading my galleries online (previously they have been sent around to promoters etc and i havent bothered uploading them online myself lately as ive been planning on getting a website done) then that will provide yet another backup of some galleries.

Jim R 0- thanks for the suggestion. I currently use GIMP as I cant afford any editing suite yet, I'll have to check out aperture though. can anyone explain a bit more about 'non destructive edits' e.g. what software can i do this in? i'd quite like to just keep the RAW files but with data so i can easily replicate any edits ive done but without having to store the eidts. this of course would be great for uploading to websites as i could just recreate the pic in whatver size/format i'dlike without having to keep 346727 copies of each file :)

oh and for the record - im a woman ;)
 
BalSanghera said:
Data can still be recovered from fire/flood damaged hard drives :nuts:
Click to expand...

Which would need a specialist company to-do, probably costing hundreds if not thousands. I only suggested it as an additional extra to everything else- I have an external drive as well as the online option.
 
I'll probably use both online and offline storage in the future, its all money though.

For online storage though, I'll have to wait until we get optical cable in Norfolk ha!
 
Even with optical you wont get a faster upload then 768kbs unless your on 50mb then I think you get 1mb upload speed.
 
wombcorps said:
Jim R 0- thanks for the suggestion. I currently use GIMP as I cant afford any editing suite yet, I'll have to check out aperture though. can anyone explain a bit more about 'non destructive edits' e.g. what software can i do this in? i'd quite like to just keep the RAW files but with data so i can easily replicate any edits ive done but without having to store the eidts. this of course would be great for uploading to websites as i could just recreate the pic in whatver size/format i'dlike without having to keep 346727 copies of each file :)

oh and for the record - im a woman ;)
Click to expand...

Ah, post edited! :$

Aperture is Mac/OSX only. If you're on Windows, you'll need to look at Lightroom (can't tell what OS you use from your reference to the GIMP as that'll run on pretty much anything).
If you're dealing with the sort of volume of photos that fill a 1Tb hard drive, a proper asset management/editing tool will make your life 100 times easier.
Both have 30 day free trial versions available, have a play and see what you think. You may be just in time to ask father xmas for a copy ;)

If the above aren't affordable, have a look at Picasa. It's not quite as comprehensive as the others, but it will handle RAW files and perform non-destructive edits.
 
BalSanghera said:
Even with optical you wont get a faster upload then 768kbs unless your on 50mb then I think you get 1mb upload speed.
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No offence,- but please stop stating "facts" without evidence!. For example, www.bethere.co.uk offer a 24meg down, 2.5meg upload service. I am on there middle package- and get 1meg up- no problems (& I am about 3-4miles from the exchange).
 
Buy a large external hard drive. You can get a 1tb one for like £60 these days and even 2tb if required.

If you want more stoarge then your gonna have to pay for it
 
wombcorps said:
noooo! promoters often ask for my pics in RAW to use for masive promotional stuff, as well as jpegs for online. plus ive always preffered RAW, maybe some people cant tell the difference but i certainly can and wouldnt want to simply start shooting in jpeg for my pictures to get worse and have to turn down any requests for large, hi quiality pics for people to use.
Click to expand...

Interesting. Of course if your customers ask for RAW you've no choice but to supply that, but I have to say I'm surprised that they do. A RAW isn't really an image until it's processed so whoever gets the RAW will have to go through the conversion process that you've already done, all over again.

I'm not sure you'd have to turn work down if you switched to JPG, on a quality level. It may be the case what's happening here is your in-camera JPG engine is giving poor image quality compared to software you're using, so you may have somewhat skewed viewpoint on JPG - there's certainly no inherent reason why JPG cannot deliver any size and quality required, if used properly. Indeed, because you can't print directly from RAW, the final print may well come from a JPG.

If you've compared JPG (from RAW+software) and JPG (from camera) and can see a preference (in a double blind trial of course ;)), who am I to disagree? I know my D90 does a lot of hard work on the JPG processing side (dynamic range, picture controls, aberration correction) which I simply couldn't be bothered to do when faced with a whole night's worth of images.

However, I respect your right to choose :)

PS Are you absolutely sure you can't afford one of these? It would make your life a lot easier! http://www.pcworld.co.uk/martprd/store/pcw_page.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@1316413696.1257343841@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccgfadeikegdljjcflgceggdhhmdgmj.0&page=Product&fm=null&sm=null&tm=null&sku=389575&category_oid=
 
if your internet connection is slow...as mine is...i use a caddy with a 3.5" 7400 hard drive
not rocket science but its there and i dont need to be online
the next stage is to get some spare drives at around 1Tb around £85..??
a spare caddy would cost around £20
i bought icy box for the laptop caddy drive..2.5" 80Gb and the rock for the pc
the rock caddy is mains so you wont ask your laptop to drive a 3.5" 7400 powerwise
mine is only 80Gb but has capacity for more
i dont envy you having all those raw files though...
 
aligibbs said:
Have fun when you have a fire/flood etc :)
Click to expand...

Well, I doubt I'll be having fun. But after I've cleaned everything up and bought a new computer then I'll just ask my friend to open her fire-proof safe at work and get out the hard drive that's got a backup on it.

I reckon I could do all the cleaning up, buy a new PC and copy all of my data from the off-site backup in half the time it's gonna take you to download 700GB from your online backups.
 
hollis_f said:
Well, I doubt I'll be having fun. But after I've cleaned everything up and bought a new computer then I'll just ask my friend to open her fire-proof safe at work and get out the hard drive that's got a backup on it.

I reckon I could do all the cleaning up, buy a new PC and copy all of my data from the off-site backup in half the time it's gonna take you to download 700GB from your online backups.
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This is going rather off topic now- sorry to OP. But to answer this, thats' all well and good- but how do you keep that disc updated? Take it out of the safe whilst you update it? Have two discs that you swap over?

I am not saying that you shouldn't have an external disc- but the "what if" still worries me.
 
aligibbs said:
I am not saying that you shouldn't have an external disc- but the "what if" still worries me.
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that is the 64,000 euro question...how much of what is going to happen can you pre empt...

if the internet speeds get better then i would think that is a good place to put stuff
ps do public libraries have faster upload speeds:cool:
 
aligibbs said:
This is going rather off topic now- sorry to OP. But to answer this, thats' all well and good- but how do you keep that disc updated? Take it out of the safe whilst you update it? Have two discs that you swap over?

I am not saying that you shouldn't have an external disc- but the "what if" still worries me.
Click to expand...

As with all disaster recovery options there is a trade-off between thoroughness and utility. The off-site backup is re-done every month. So, if there were a disaster that took out my PC's hard drive and the backup hard drive then I'll have lost a couple of week's work. The risk is small enough for me to take that chance. In a few weeks, when the extension is built, we'll have a safe in there and backup disks will be recycled daily.
 
martsharm said:
If you've compared JPG (from RAW+software) and JPG (from camera) and can see a preference (in a double blind trial of course ;)), who am I to disagree? I know my D90 does a lot of hard work on the JPG processing side (dynamic range, picture controls, aberration correction) which I simply couldn't be bothered to do when faced with a whole night's worth of images.

However, I respect your right to choose :)
Click to expand...

At risk of derailing the topic... RAW will give you more flexibility in post. The camera will make assumptions when processing the image to a JPG file and those assumptions might be wrong. With RAW, you can choose all the conversion parameters yourself. Sure it's a lot of work but it can be done in a batch process if needs be. I'll go through batches of 300-500 shots, pick 50 keepers and do the adjustments myself before converting to JPG. I then batch process the rest. It's six of one and half a dozen of the other but I don't trust my camera to make the right choice all the time and I'm willing to take the time to go through them myself :)

Back on topic... I know the OP said he can't afford another HDD but I really don't think there's another way which will give you what you're after. What price would you put on all your exposures? Personally I think they're priceless and I'd suggest saving up £50 or so and getting a new drive. DVDs don't hold a lot of data and you'd be swapping discs in and out the whole time which will get old fast. They also take an age to burn!

I have an IcyBox which has space for two SATA HDDs. I have two 500GB drives in it and connect it via USB. All my images are stored on one and backed up to the other. The backup will soon be kept offsite and sync'd every couple of weeks.

George.
 
BadgerLover said:
I have an IcyBox which has space for two SATA HDDs. I have two 500GB drives in it and connect it via USB. All my images are stored on one and backed up to the other. The backup will soon be kept offsite and sync'd every couple of weeks.
George.
Click to expand...

:thumbs:

makes sense to buy a good caddy after trolling all the sites for a top drive
 
A more fundamental question is are you keeping unneccessary images, whilst it may be a good habit to keep everything, if it isn't used commercially and is 'just archived' is t time for some pruning. If not and the images are essential then buying more storage is cheap in relation to the value you must be placing on the images you are storing.
 
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