Stolen Image - any advice for me ?

dseered

dseered

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Ian
Edit My Images
Yes
I spotted it today and asked the owner of the vehicle it was plastered all over the back off where he got it - he replied, its yours, looks good dosen't it !

Yes it did look bloody good but the fact is it is my image, a very good image that I did not give him permission to use, I understand this fella got it off another forum I use, non photography related.

Now, where do I stand, send him an invoice, is this theft criminal or civil, I am gutted to be honest.

I got photographs of the image in place and have the originals to prove I took the original - looks like watermarks from now on :(

I was to shocked to challenge him and by the time I went away and thought about it, well, it was best I didn't go back or else I would have chinned him for his blase attitude.
 
send him an invoice if he dont pay up steel his van!;)
dseered said:
I spotted it today and asked the owner of the vehicle it was plastered all over the back off where he got it - he replied, its yours, looks good dosen't it !

Yes it did look bloody good but the fact is it is my image, a very good image that I did not give him permission to use, I understand this fella got it off another forum I use, non photography related.

Now, where do I stand, send him an invoice, is this theft criminal or civil, I am gutted to be honest.

I got photographs of the image in place and have the originals to prove I took the original - looks like watermarks from now on :(

I was to shocked to challenge him and by the time I went away and thought about it, well, it was best I didn't go back or else I would have chinned him for his blase attitude.
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Is it being used commercially? If it is bill him, if it's not then to be honest I think you're wasting your time chasing it.
 
dod said:
Is it being used commercially? If it is bill him, if it's not then to be honest I think you're wasting your time chasing it.
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Yes it is, advertising, a graphics company, cheeky ******, how many other people has he ripped off ?

Its all very well sending an invoice but if he tells me to stuff it, where do you go then ?
 
straight to a solicitor infringement of copyright
 
Make it £1000, if he's using it to make money then so should you, if he doesn't like the price tell him to take it down. Make it clear that if he pays you, it does not give him any rights to use the image other than that one instance.

If you get no joy then sue him.
 
if he's in advertising or graphics maybe it could lead to future work, or maybe they could offer some service in return.

Not condoning the practice but life sometimes throws a curved ball at you and could have several different outcomes depending on how the matter is handled.
 
I agree with andrewc, discuss it rationally with the guy first and try to reach a mutual agreement wether it be by payment or future work. prepare yourself first though so that if he still has his blase attitude, you know exactly where you stand and he doesnt.
 
If you ARE going to bill him for it, then you need to decide whether you want to ask an amount that will mean it's easier to pay you than to go through the hassle of taking the picture off the van. Realistically if you ask £1000 for it, he's just going to say "Stuff that" and get the shot removed. If, however, you ask somewhere just south of £500, he may well pay up, leaving you with enough cash for new goodies! :D
 
You guys are assuming that this is a reasonable type of person, which he clearly isn't or he wouldn't have stolen the image in the first place. My years running my own business taught me that if a company rips you off once they will do it again if you give them the chance so don't give them the chance, imo a promise from him of future work would be worthless. By all means be reasonable with the guy, give him every chance to pay you but don't accept anything less than the cash and be prepared to take it further if you have to, remember that nobody is going to protect your work if you don't.
 
It will be a tough one but it ruined my day really, picture is a bit of a one off that I was very proud of, I am going to give him a call on Monday and see what happens, I am prepared to follow it through out of principal + if it is a criminal offence then I just have to report it and watch the mushroom cloud rise but is it criminal or civil ?
 
dseered said:
It will be a tough one but it ruined my day really, picture is a bit of a one off that I was very proud of, I am going to give him a call on Monday and see what happens, I am prepared to follow it through out of principal + if it is a criminal offence then I just have to report it and watch the mushroom cloud rise but is it criminal or civil ?
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These two links would be useful:

Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988

Act overview

Have a good read through that (I'd recommend the overview, since the actual act is a bit long winded) and decide where to go from there.
 
A little advice which you don't have to take but after getting into a legal battle 3 years ago (not photography related but business related) I feel it's worth airing. If you bill this guy make sure you included all necessary wording i.e. 'Full settlement within 7 days ..... interest of x% etc. If this does not do the trick go to the small claims court and take out a summons which is about £50. He will be issued with the summons to appear in court. I personally would never use a solicitor again. They are the only winners in this kind of situation. Our grievance was over quite a hefty sum and it cost £22,000 in legal fees just to get a court order against the other party. Had we have gone all the way with the case which we were higly likely to win we were quoted a further figure of £75,000. But you would have got costs awarded I hear some say. No, because the other party made sure they had nothing on paper so effectively there was nothing to have. Wise after the event!
 
I would send him a letter stating how pleased you are that he chose one of your images. I would then state that the fee for using your image would normally be x or alternatively you would be prepared to waiver this fee should he agree to stating that the image is by you (in a way that you feel gains you publicity) where ever it is used i.e stationary, vehicle graphics, promotional work etc. (to your satisfaction)

I would also include details of work that you undertake including fees charged. (so he sees that you are for real)

I would close with the line "I am sure at the time that you chose to use my work you were unaware that this image is copyright and by using without my express permission you are in breach of such. This is obviously an oversight on your part and one which I am sure you wish to rectify to avoid such infringement, I would therefore be grateful if you could contact me with your preferred choice from those supplied to you"

Be pleasant, clear and to the point (firmly but not aggressively) with a date that you would expect a response by (reasonable 7 to 10 days). Always the way to go in business.

Good luck
 
Looks good though :(
I have cut the company name off though.....
6t9q3885ql9.jpg
 
In terms of criminal law it would, I believe, be covered by offences in s.107 of the CDPA 1988 which carries a max of 6 months and/or a fine. Civil action would be to recover your loss.

Also see s.100, you might have a legal right to seize the offending article which would at least get the attention of the person who stole the image ;)
 
Advertising is all about getting the attention of prospective customers and that stunning image attracts the attention everyone and getting talked about and so therefore must be creating a lot of business also.
Make them pay for it!!.
 
Great image.

You know he stole it, he knows he stole it, bill him and sue him if he doesn't pay.
 
I have been dealing with two individuals who have done something similar.

The first is a person selling a horse using a picture lifted from my website and straight into one of the free papers. I spoke with the free paper who were useless. Next I rang the number in the paper and spoke direct to the person and explained the situation. They paid within the hour on the internet.

Second was another horse image taken from a print I sold, scanned and then used on the front of a publication with a small circulation list of 3000. I managed to speak to the publisher, who should have known better and got paid and managed to get some more business.

Point I am making is there is no one way to deal with but if I had gone through a solicitor I would still be waiting for an outcome and both of these examples had a pretty positive outcome.

As everybody has already said and I agree with - your image is stunning but they are really taking the P*** with that.

Good luck.

Bob
 
Treesie said:
Our grievance was over quite a hefty sum and it cost £22,000 in legal fees just to get a court order against the other party. Had we have gone all the way with the case which we were higly likely to win we were quoted a further figure of £75,000.
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The company I work for were sued for breach of copyright, a company sued then as they believed an item was a direct copy of one of theirs, when it went to court they lost and we were awarded costs but the amount awarded didn't cover the actual costs, it cost us 20K + all the unpaid time working on the defence, if you're sued and they lose you should be able to claim all the costs + put in a bill for your time sorting your defence out, as stated the only winners are the solicitors so don't let it get that far if at all possible
 
pxl8 said:
In terms of criminal law it would, I believe, be covered by offences in s.107 of the CDPA 1988 which carries a max of 6 months and/or a fine. Civil action would be to recover your loss.

Also see s.100, you might have a legal right to seize the offending article which would at least get the attention of the person who stole the image ;)
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Thats an interesting read, thank you !
 
It happened to me years ago, in the world of rally photography. I found out who it was after a few phone calls...then I sent them a bill ! After a few spoken words I got my money and alittle extra for my troubles !

Paul
 
Just to throw in my 2ps worth.

Just ensure one thing,..... don't mess about, go straight for the jugular, the money, the payment and pointing out the clear theft.

Then offer a friendly way ££ for him to get out of his problem.

Nice shot btw.:thumbs: ... you must be well chuffed...well, you will be when you get paid. :D
 
keep any claim below 5k, that way you can use small claims court and keep legal costs down (not sure if small claims does copyright though)

failing that nuke him from orbit ... only way to be sure
 
If you know the forum he took the image from, you need to check their rules on displaying on, and using images from the site. Also, how did you protect the image that was displayed?
If the guy can prove there was nothing on the site to say he couldnt use the image, then that will be his defence. I am not sure you can retrospectively restrict its use. He may have to remove it, but he may not be liable for compensation.
However, if it was obvious to all that you owned the image, then you can play hardball!
Allan
 
allanm said:
If you know the forum he took the image from, you need to check their rules on displaying on, and using images from the site. Also, how did you protect the image that was displayed?
If the guy can prove there was nothing on the site to say he couldnt use the image, then that will be his defence. I am not sure you can retrospectively restrict its use. He may have to remove it, but he may not be liable for compensation.
However, if it was obvious to all that you owned the image, then you can play hardball!
Allan
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Rules don't say much to be honest and it was linked not hosted by the site. He is in the graphics trade so I am sure he knows damn well what you can and can't do, if not and he is stealing images then I am sure trading standards will be very interested in his operation.

I have been unable to locate his business address, comapnies house show a similar sounding business name in the area that was dissolved some time ago.

I have e-mailed and PM'ed him from the site in question with the following......

Hi T**T

After your admission of copyright theft on Saturday with reference to the image used for marketing your business using my image I have decided that payment of £500 will give you use of that image for commercial advertising purposes for the period of one calender year from receipt of payment. This will not allow the use of the image for resale purposes.

On receipt of payment I will issue a formal license for use of the image.

I would prefer payment via Paypal on this occasion and this can be made using ********@hotmail.com

I require notification of payment within seven ( 7 ) days before taking the matter to Trading Standards who take Copyright theft very seriously.
I have explored my options on this matter this week and feel my offer to you is more than generous.

I look forward to receiving payment. Please also provide me with your trading address so I can forward a formal licence agreement for continued use of my image.

Regards

Ian
 
keep us up dated interested to hear the outcome best of luck
 
Good luck but............I can't see him agreeing to pay £500 every year.....................
 
allanm said:
If the guy can prove there was nothing on the site to say he couldnt use the image, then that will be his defence.
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Allan, that is a very interesting point you've raised there as usually ignorance of the law is not a defence under the UK Criminal Justice System. However, the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act does have this clause under Chapter VI s.97 (1) which states:

"Where in an action for infringement of copyright it is shown that at the time of the infringement the defendant did not know, and had no reason to believe, that copyright subsisted in the work to which the action relates, the plaintiff is not entitled to damages against him, but without prejudice to any other remedy."

This is very unusual and to the best of my knowledge it is the only Act of Parliament with this clause.

Hope I haven't rained on your parade but I thought you should be aware.
 
JumboBeef said:
Good luck but............I can't see him agreeing to pay £500 every year.....................
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Neither can I however as said before, he is in the graphics industry and if he is using stolen images on work he does for customers then I am sure that someone will be interested in looking through his files and getting him to prove that he has the right to distribute and reproduce !
 
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