State Pension

I wonder if it's ever occurred to any of them that the very concept of a Winter Fuel Payment should not even exist. It highlights that there is something inherently wrong with our energy costs.
 
lindsay said:
I recall that at the start of the first Covid lockdown, certain people were defined as key workers and this allowed to travel. Carers, Doctors etc - no arguments. Then it started with delivery drivers etc. I was defined as a key worker along with all my colleagues at (at the time) Fujitsu, simply because we were working on the dev and test of a new system to replace the police fingerprint/facial image identification system. I was happy enough to go along with it, but I felt an utter fraud because there was no way were essential to public health and safety. So I tend to agree with Andrew, that one persons important job is another persons not so essential job. It depends on where in the food chain you are and imho delivery drivers eg Amazon/Evri/etc are only important if you think consumerism is important. Delivery drivers to Tesco etc definitely are more important.
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i was classed as a key worked all the way during covid, can't say what i was doing but it was RAF bases in Lincolnshire.
I had the "letter" from the MOD in my bag that i had to show at the few hotels that were actually open.
it was s*** never even got a breakfast
 
Mr Bump said:
crikey i am allready paying tax on my private pension at 55 i am over the tax allowance when i get to 67 all of my state pension will get taxed lol
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TheFiend said:
I'm 62, retired at 59.5 and another one already paying income tax on my pension income.....
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Raincloud said:
So, if it states you will get the full amount when you retire, you may not?
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If your SP award is a full/max state pension but have other earnings/pensions it is not the SP that is taxed (reduced) but your income above the personal allowance of £12570
tijuana taxi said:
I retired just shy of 55 and paid income tax from day 1 (as expected)
When I got the state pension this year my tax code changed and now pay the full tax amount from my private pension.
This means my state pension is paid in full every 28 days, very welcome boost to our finances.
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Exactly
tijuana taxi said:
My state pension was calculated on the years I contributed, so for me it was 37 years NI contributions.
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IIRC the personal allowance, currently £12570, is set to be increased in 2028. Therefore the concern is that as the SP increases year on year and at the current trajectory the SP could potentially go above the personal allowance before 2028 and then the SP would attract being taxed = the risk to the SP of fiscal drag! :(

So on the basis of the Triple Lock staying in place, just what will the Labour government do to avoid the SP (ever?) becoming a taxable income???
 
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lindsay said:
I recall that at the start of the first Covid lockdown, certain people were defined as key workers and this allowed to travel. Carers, Doctors etc - no arguments. Then it started with delivery drivers etc. I was defined as a key worker along with all my colleagues at (at the time) Fujitsu, simply because we were working on the dev and test of a new system to replace the police fingerprint/facial image identification system. I was happy enough to go along with it, but I felt an utter fraud because there was no way were essential to public health and safety. So I tend to agree with Andrew, that one persons important job is another persons not so essential job. It depends on where in the food chain you are and imho delivery drivers eg Amazon/Evri/etc are only important if you think consumerism is important. Delivery drivers to Tesco etc definitely are more important.
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Where I worked, due to working shifts I was classified as an essential worker as we were required to provide safety cover during the lockdowns... .... those that worked days were "furloughed" on full pay although some "worked from home"
 
‘Computer says Yes’.

At least my Excel sheet says yes.
Been through the figures a few times with the OH today and we can probably just get through to 67 using lump sums / cash draw down and taking a few pensions early.
At 67 the SP will take up the slack of the used up lump sums and cash draw downs.

Will still see if part time is on the cards with my current employer, but only got about a year extra max.

Once we have the answer to that we will make our final decision.

My SP has actually gone up a little over the standard figure, when I inquired, they said it was something to do with a re jig of SP recently and it was deemed I would have been better off before. Got no idea what I did in the past for that to happen.
 
I don't understand why anyone is worried by the idea that the rise in the state pension will bring it into the taxable range.

If it rises to that level, only a tiny fraction of it will be taxed and you'll be getting more money in any case. Is it just some form of obsessive greed that we're seeing here or, more likely, a failure to understand what will happen?
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
I don't understand why anyone is worried by the idea that the rise in the state pension will bring it into the taxable range.

If it rises to that level, only a tiny fraction of it will be taxed and you'll be getting more money in any case. Is it just some form of obsessive greed that we're seeing here or, more likely, a failure to understand what will happen?
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I really don't think anyone wanting their state pension to be fully tax free as being greedy in the slightest. I reserve the word "greed" for those who have excessive wealth and often at the detriment of others, not those who simply want to be financially comfortable.
 
The phrase "excessive greed" doesn't apply to any pensioner I know. I'm not surprised that you posted this Andrew, I've long since stopped being surprised by you and what you post :rolleyes:

This...

gman said:
I wonder if it's ever occurred to any of them that the very concept of a Winter Fuel Payment should not even exist. It highlights that there is something inherently wrong with our energy costs.
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I'd widen that to there's something inherently wrong with our ruling class and the disastrous policies they pursue.
 
gman said:
I really don't think anyone wanting their state pension to be fully tax free as being greedy in the slightest.
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Greed comes in different sizes and colours,

In the case under discussion I think, if it is greed that's involved, it's probably a faint green mini version, rather than the floor scraping, wild emeral green maxi style.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Greed comes in different sizes and colours,

In the case under discussion I think, if it is greed that's involved, it's probably a faint green mini version, rather than the floor scraping, wild emeral green maxi style.
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To be honest, I often get the impression that anything above the breadline is considered greed by you.:D

Incidentally, and I'm not aiming this at you but in general, I do often find that those who preach socialism or in that direction and are against people having some personal wealth usually end up revealing that they are quite comfortable themselves. One (former) member in particular turned out to have quite the little property empire despite always being against wealth.

I don't mind people having their own ideologies and views, but it's the hypocrisy that leaves a sour taste. Again, I'm not pointing it at you, it's just your earlier post reminded me of a few others.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
I don't understand why anyone is worried by the idea that the rise in the state pension will bring it into the taxable range.

If it rises to that level, only a tiny fraction of it will be taxed and you'll be getting more money in any case. Is it just some form of obsessive greed that we're seeing here or, more likely, a failure to understand what will happen?
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When faced with argument or criticism you have nothing, all you do repeatedly is post a laughing emoji. You are a strange man with often offensive and insulting views. Laugh on dude.... and just consider that a large number of pensioners are living hand to mouth.
 
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gman said:
To be honest, I often get the impression that anything above the breadline is considered greed by you.:D

Incidentally, and I'm not aiming this at you but in general, I do often find that those who preach socialism or in that direction and are against people having some personal wealth usually end up revealing that they are quite comfortable themselves. One (former) member in particular turned out to have quite the little property empire despite always being against wealth.

I don't mind people having their own ideologies and views, but it's the hypocrisy that leaves a sour taste. Again, I'm not pointing it at you, it's just your earlier post reminded me of a few others.
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Just look at the "greats" of this ideology and you'll see they are often flawed and even nasty individuals. It's an ideology which says all the right things and sounds all warm and cuddly whilst perusing its own goals.
 
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gman said:
To be honest, I often get the impression that anything above the breadline is considered greed by you.:D
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Actually, like any good socialist, I think there is room for different levels of wealth and different choices of life style.

What I abhor is too great a gap between rich and poor. For a thousand to be homeless while one flies around in a private jet is, in my opinion, wrong. Once everyone has a home and enough to eat, then those who want to play such games are welcome to their private jets.
 
We are veering into Hot Topics perhaps. Not a problem as such, but the thread veering into political ideology may take it to the warmer location...
 
FWIW and by way of interest, though not sure if this was mentioned before.....

At £921 (full New State Pension for TY 2025/26) per 4 weeks(month) that is €1092 and according to this site that is a bit below the EU monthly average pension

Bearing in mind our ranking in world economy listing that doesn't look that great for the UK pension being just above Cypress and Greece.

www.euronews.com

Which countries have the highest and lowest pensions in Europe?

The future adequacy of pensions remains under pressure in the EU. Women continue to receive significantly lower pensions than men. Large disparities in pension levels persist across countries.
www.euronews.com www.euronews.com
 
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at the end of the day the gov will push the allowance up a bit over the next decade but i believe labour might stick to the 2028 policy so not sure on that, but the SP realy has to be supplimented by workplace/private going forward. The SP on its own in 2025 is simply not an option on its own especially for a single person living alone. But i also don't think that is the governments fault its just due to people not paying into private pensions from very young age, a couple of pounds a week for a few decades would have made a difference but people just never bothered.
 
Mr Bump said:
at the end of the day the gov will push the allowance up a bit over the next decade but i believe labour might stick to the 2028 policy so not sure on that, but the SP realy has to be supplimented by workplace/private going forward. The SP on its own in 2025 is simply not an option on its own especially for a single person living alone. But i also don't think that is the governments fault its just due to people not paying into private pensions from very young age, a couple of pounds a week for a few decades would have made a difference but people just never bothered.
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I think it is to simplistic to say people weren't bothered. For those on low pay, putting money aside for something 40+ years off when you hardly have enough money to pay your present bills, isn't not being bothered.

Even now many of the so called company pensions people are expected to put in offer poor returns.
 
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The one minor contribution to my SP that has been beneficial was my NHS one. I worked there between 1973 to 1980. At that time the NHS scheme was "Superannuation" based.

The year before I left a female colleague left and she took out her Superannuation, when I left the rules had changed and I was obliged to leave it in.
Good thing that I did because suffice to say the relatively small total of contributions (frozen in 1980) over the decades had grown into something small but 'not to be sneezed at' every month.

PS and like the SP, though not triple locked ;) , goes up every year.
 
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lindsay said:
We are veering into Hot Topics perhaps. Not a problem as such, but the thread veering into political ideology may take it to the warmer location...
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Sorry, that was my fault.
 
Not really @gman , there was a general veering of the thread probably based around Andrews posts, but no matter, I just wanted to hoist the flag
 
leaky5 said:
‘Computer says Yes’.

At least my Excel sheet says yes.
Been through the figures a few times with the OH today and we can probably just get through to 67 using lump sums / cash draw down and taking a few pensions early.
At 67 the SP will take up the slack of the used up lump sums and cash draw downs.

Will still see if part time is on the cards with my current employer, but only got about a year extra max.

Once we have the answer to that we will make our final decision.

My SP has actually gone up a little over the standard figure, when I inquired, they said it was something to do with a re jig of SP recently and it was deemed I would have been better off before. Got no idea what I did in the past for that to happen.
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Well company said no to part time, so got to make the decision if I am going to jack it all in come September.
 
leaky5 said:
Well company said no to part time, so got to make the decision if I am going to jack it all in come September.
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Retire and look for a part time job, there are loads out there.
 
leaky5 said:
Well company said no to part time, so got to make the decision if I am going to jack it all in come September.
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Did they give you a decent reason for refusing p/t work? I'm sure there was some recent changes in employment law last year where they have to give a strong business case for refusing.
 
gman said:
Did they give you a decent reason for refusing p/t work? I'm sure there was some recent changes in employment law last year where they have to give a strong business case for refusing.
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To be quite honest, part of me was hoping they would say no.
Makes the decision to give up fully easier to make.
They did say it was because if I was still there they would not have enough budget to employ someone else full time to eventually take over from me when I did decide to leave.
 
F1.2 said:
After 50+ years of working , NO way am I looking for work again :oops: :$ :eek:
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Absolutely agree I have worked all my life absolutely no way would I go back
We have enough to get by would rather go without than go back to work
Anyway too busy am out all the time with my camera or at the allotment, haven’t actually had time to ride my motorbike for ages :)
 
I retired early after nearly forty years with the same employer since I was sixteen.
Had a few people when I left say "you could get a little part time job"
Why would I have wanted to do that?
 
We wanted to reduce or give up at 60.
Could possibly just give up by raiding the pensions between 60 & 67, but wanted to try and avoid that if possible.
Both moving to part time at 60 will let us do this, also I have worked in IT for 44 years and had enough of the stress involved in that.
 
I retired 7 years ago, I still do a little work for an accountant. I think it keeps me sharp, using IT skills I learned along the way. Only three or four days a month.
Pays the poll tax ;)
 
I retired at 54 and 5 months.
I have not worked at all since then - 22 years and 8 months, not that I am counting :)
I hope to reach 38 years and 2 months retired to match my working life.
Luckily I am still relatively healthy and active although I do make sure that I keep fit
 
Having now been retired for 15 years ,when I first got my private pension ( fixed amount ) it was enough spending money to see me through the month , keep fuel in the car and buy some extras , 15 years later not only has inflation taken most of it but state pension rises has led to it being taxed as well so a fair chunk of my private pension no goes to HM gov .. it’s very very wrong as I and others worked hard and paid our taxes while working and it’s not greed either just fair play ..
What I see daily on the news about the scams our newly arrived dingy citizens are pulling and the help there getting makes me wonder if it was all worthwhile ..
No we are not starving nor are we greedy in any way but I really cannot believe what this current so called government is doing to those that worked all there life’s to achieve.
 
the black fox said:
Having now been retired for 15 years ,when I first got my private pension ( fixed amount ) it was enough spending money to see me through the month , keep fuel in the car and buy some extras , 15 years later not only has inflation taken most of it but state pension rises has led to it being taxed as well so a fair chunk of my private pension no goes to HM gov .. it’s very very wrong as I and others worked hard and paid our taxes while working and it’s not greed either just fair play ..
What I see daily on the news about the scams our newly arrived dingy citizens are pulling and the help there getting makes me wonder if it was all worthwhile ..
No we are not starving nor are we greedy in any way but I really cannot believe what this current so called government is doing to those that worked all there life’s to achieve.
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Don't forget that all(most?) contributions in a private (defined contributions) pension are Nett i.e the income tax you paid on that money is added back into your pot or depending on the type of policy at the time......paid back to you if paid Gross.

Therefore, no surprise that when you access your private pension that it is taxed, whether you are "draw down" or "annuity".

The kicker on the horizon, depending on when & what the figure will be re: Personal Allowance figure (currently £12570) is the potential for those on only SP paying some tax!!!!!

At the moment the headroom of Tax Free amount is £607 so IIRC it is 2028 when the PA will increase so with the Triple Lock the two 'numbers' could converge before the PA rises???
 
the black fox said:
Having now been retired for 15 years ,when I first got my private pension ( fixed amount ) it was enough spending money to see me through the month , keep fuel in the car and buy some extras , 15 years later not only has inflation taken most of it but state pension rises has led to it being taxed as well so a fair chunk of my private pension no goes to HM gov .. it’s very very wrong as I and others worked hard and paid our taxes while working and it’s not greed either just fair play ..
What I see daily on the news about the scams our newly arrived dingy citizens are pulling and the help there getting makes me wonder if it was all worthwhile ..
No we are not starving nor are we greedy in any way but I really cannot believe what this current so called government is doing to those that worked all there life’s to achieve.
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You might like to mention the previous government who for one year reneged on the triple lock.
It was also they who introduced and maintained a freeze on the personal allowance figure.
Every country is struggling with paying state pension to an ever increasing older population.
Denmark are raising their retirement age to 70 and many more are doing something similar.
I know it will soon be mentioned that some of these countries have a higher state pension,
Just been in the Netherlands where they have to pay the first €385 of medical treatment, all evens out.
 
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The UK has one of the lowest state pensions in Europe, in France it is 1581 euros a month. How does raising the retirement age help youth unemployment?
 
I thought there was no retirement age, just a date when you can collect the state pension, if you want to work till you drop you can.
Next time you go out to town, to a tea room or a supermarket, just take note of all the people who are pension age and still working, especially women,
Looks to me that they have to find something to make ends meet.
 
I do wonder if one day the State Pension will be phased out, with the Workplace Pension taking over; thus placing a significant burden on the private sector (as usual).

State Pension seems to grab the headlines, but I would be looking more closely at the generous and unsustainable public sector pensions instead.
 
gman said:
I do wonder if one day the State Pension will be phased out, with the Workplace Pension taking over; thus placing a significant burden on the private sector (as usual).

State Pension seems to grab the headlines, but I would be looking more closely at the generous and unsustainable public sector pensions instead.
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I think the state pension will always remain in one form or another albeit it may be means tested in the form of state benefits. If you simply stopped paying state pension to the less well off unable to work in old age you would need to make that up in benefits to enable them to survive
 
taxboy said:
I think the state pension will always remain in one form or another albeit it may be means tested in the form of state benefits. If you simply stopped paying state pension to the less well off unable to work in old age you would need to make that up in benefits to enable them to survive
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Yep, but that's where the Workplace Pension would come into play. It's already a mandatory offer upon employment for qualifying employees, currently with the ability to opt out. But I can see the opt out being removed in the future, thus becoming stage 1 of a transition away from SP.

Arguably those in the public sector may not receive it at all because their Defined Benefit pension will most likely be generous enough and as you say, if it becomes means tested then it only serves to reinforce this position (and also the workplace pensions).

Those who don't/can't/won't work will of course receive a SP as a benefit, which is easy enough to slide into this role seeing as the SP is already treated as a benefit.
 
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