State Pension?

I keep hearing about cheap renewable energy, but my electricity costs keep rising, just when will it take effect.
 
Just a a comment with reference to the NHS debate, maybe be interesting

We have had really good treatment from our local GP practice

We lived in France for a number of years, paid French taxes and social security contributions, (which are far higher than those paid in the UK), so we were part of their health system - in France you pay a part of the cost of all treatment including visits to the doctors, etc., etc., - nothing in free unless you are really "poor", you pay let say 35% of the cost - most have an insurance policy to cover this, "top up" - we were in our 60's when we lived permanently in France and our insurance policy cost approximately Euros 3,000 pa. in 2017.
The treatment we received from the French Health system was very good, I would not say it was better than that in the UK, it was just different in a number of respects, particularly in early prevention or diagnosis and speed of service, the situation felt "more secure" ........... but you pay for it and the more you pay, (insurance-wise), the more comfortable you choose to receive, (i.e. private room versus ward, your specialist versus designated, etc.) - so in a way there is a small "private" choice in France.............but at a significant cost to you, (social charges plus insurance of the "top up") ............ GP appointments were usually that day or the next ............
 
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lindsay said:
I'd love to agree with you Paul but I'm not convinced yet of the economics for the industry, especially vans and lorries. But I'd like to be. My main point is just that I keep hearing about progress in synthetic fuels which means competition for market share will remain the case.

I've been watching the similar climate issues in the maritime transport industry where alternatives to heavy oil are being trialled quite successfully, though not yet as ultimately clean as would be liked.
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Vans and trucks will probably move to hybrid short/medium term (next 5 years , quite a few electric vans out there
Synthetic fuels just never going to happen , literally going to be way to expensive for no reason there will be no investment from the big boys when electric is simply already here.

The manufacturing process is complex, costly and energy intensive, which is a major barrier to uptake. As a result, synthetic fuels will remain expensive until infrastructure is scaled up

like I say the biggest seed change is how cheap electricity will be in the next 5 years and that will simply push change.

HGVs well Tesla are allready doing it in the USA so lets see where that gets us in another 5 years.
Maritime.....hummm another grey one

see post office details below

How many electric vehicles does Royal Mail have? 5,000
Part of the company's plans to achieve net zero by 2040, the new electric vehicles (EVs) will replace existing diesel vans and start being rolled out across the UK from August. Royal Mail already had the largest electric delivery fleet in the UK with around 5,000 fully electric
 
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beyond the blue said:
You will never feel the benefit, the only ones that will benefit are the producers and suppliers. Only increases are passed on, never reductions.
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until the big builds are complete electricity prices will not go down, in approx 5/6 years we will have an estimated 50 gw/h of wind alone
Rome wasn't built in a day.

However we are already seeing amazing cheap EV tarriffs which is where the savings are to be had, Octopus do an overnight EV tariff of about 7p per kw/h which if your EV does 3 miles per kw.h is like 2.3p per mile so for 200miles of range its about £4.60p

if you do the longer term maths 1000 miles is about £23 so say 10,000 miles a year £230 in leccy

compared to an average car say 50mpg and a gallon of unlead currently at a very cheap price about £5.50p
so again maths time so thats 11p/mile x 10,000 = £1,100

so more maths lets look at say 5 years

50,000 miles of petrol is £5500
50,000 miles of octopus leccy is £1150

so we can see straight away almost 4.5k fuel saving and that is available now , right this minute.

however remember fuel is at its cheapest for ages if we look at the cost of fuel at a more realistic level of say £7/gallon then the numbers are massive
your ICE car will cost you £7k for 50,000 miles vs EV at £1150 for the same 50,000 miles so a saving nearly 6k over the 5 years

and that is before we start talking about the additional cost of services for an ICE car over an EV for 5 years.....................phew
 
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Mr Bump said:
until the big builds are complete electricity prices will not go down, in approx 5/6 years we will have an estimated 50 gw/h of wind alone
Rome wasn't built in a day.

However we are already seeing amazing cheap EV tarriffs which is where the savings are to be had, Octopus do an overnight EV tariff of about 7p per kw/h which if your EV does 3 miles per kw.h is like 2.3p per mile so for 200miles of range its about £4.60p

if you do the longer term maths 1000 miles is about £23 so say 10,000 miles a year £230 in leccy

compared to an average car say 50mpg and a gallon of unlead currently at a very cheap price about £5.50p
so again maths time so thats 11p/mile x 10,000 = £1,100

so more maths lets look at say 5 years

50,000 miles of petrol is £5500
50,000 miles of octopus leccy is £1150

so we can see straight away almost 4.5k fuel saving and that is available now , right this minute.

however remember fuel is at its cheapest for ages if we look at the cost of fuel at a more realistic level of say £7/gallon then the numbers are massive
your ICE car will cost you £7k for 50,000 miles vs EV at £1150 for the same 50,000 miles so a saving nearly 6k over the 5 years

and that is before we start talking about the additional cost of services for an ICE car over an EV for 5 years.....................phew
Click to expand...

Then factor in the much higher initial cost and annual depreciation of EVs, the reduced range year on year and the possibility that not everyone will be able to access cheap charging.

As Cambso pointed out, it suits his circumstances, but as others have pointed out, it doesn't suit theirs. It certainly doesn't suit mine and therefore I will be buying diesels for the forseeable future.
 
Clive K said:
Then factor in the much higher initial cost and annual depreciation of EVs, the reduced range year on year and the possibility that not everyone will be able to access cheap charging.

As Cambso pointed out, it suits his circumstances, but as others have pointed out, it doesn't suit theirs. It certainly doesn't suit mine and therefore I will be buying diesels for the forseeable future.
Click to expand...

reduced range year after year?
which 1980s book of EVs have you been reading?
most EVs batteries are now guarenteed for over 7 years and scientists agree below

Yes, like all batteries, EV batteries degrade. However, EV batteries are, on average, exhibiting high levels of sustained health — and battery degradation rates are improving in newer models. Our latest research finds that EV batteries are degrading at 1.8% per year on average.

increased cost, decent EVs cost less than you think and then factor in the savings?

home charging is an issue for some people i agree
massive depreciation? some do but you buy an EV for the long run?
How long do you keep your cars for?
I keep mine for usually 8-10 years?
 
Mr Bump said:
until the big builds are complete electricity prices will not go down, in approx 5/6 years we will have an estimated 50 gw/h of wind alone
Rome wasn't built in a day.

However we are already seeing amazing cheap EV tarriffs which is where the savings are to be had, Octopus do an overnight EV tariff of about 7p per kw/h which if your EV does 3 miles per kw.h is like 2.3p per mile so for 200miles of range its about £4.60p

if you do the longer term maths 1000 miles is about £23 so say 10,000 miles a year £230 in leccy

compared to an average car say 50mpg and a gallon of unlead currently at a very cheap price about £5.50p
so again maths time so thats 11p/mile x 10,000 = £1,100

so more maths lets look at say 5 years

50,000 miles of petrol is £5500
50,000 miles of octopus leccy is £1150

so we can see straight away almost 4.5k fuel saving and that is available now , right this minute.

however remember fuel is at its cheapest for ages if we look at the cost of fuel at a more realistic level of say £7/gallon then the numbers are massive
your ICE car will cost you £7k for 50,000 miles vs EV at £1150 for the same 50,000 miles so a saving nearly 6k over the 5 years

and that is before we start talking about the additional cost of services for an ICE car over an EV for 5 years.....................phew
Click to expand...
Don't forget that a large % of the cost of fuel is tax. The government is looking at road pricing (Pay per Mile) which will increase the cost of EV usage while keeping ICE costs similar to currently. Assuming the government does not want riots of ICE drivers by not removing fuel duty completely.
 
EV's - it's "horses for courses" - we love our i3, will keep it for years, but I also love our BMW 335D, it's a fabulous car
 
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seaodyssey said:
Don't forget that a large % of the cost of fuel is tax. The government is looking at road pricing (Pay per Mile) which will increase the cost of EV usage while keeping ICE costs similar to currently. Assuming the government does not want riots of ICE drivers by not removing fuel duty completely.
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you dont think the cost of fuel is going up then as well?
Blimey Labour needs billions to plug the tory hole
diesel is going to get battered for starters lol
its an easy/filthy target
 
Mr Bump said:
you dont think the cost of fuel is going up then as well?
Blimey Labour needs billions to plug the tory hole
diesel is going to get battered for starters lol
its an easy/filthy target
Click to expand...

Yes, and the price of electricity will not fall either with the increasing demands on supply.

Regards battery degrading; We keep hearing that current models are better than older models. Well, let me know when they have zero degrading. Otherwise you are just Guinea Pigs for future buyers.

And you did not address the much higher costs and depreciation of EVs and which eat into your calculated savings. You would have to keep it 8 years to have any chance of breaking even assuming the batteries are still OK.
 
Clive K said:
Regards battery degrading; We keep hearing that current models are better than older models. Well, let me know when they have zero degrading. Otherwise you are just Guinea Pigs for future buyers.
Click to expand...
Most older ICE cars don't have the same fuel economy they did when they were new. Parts wear, you get carbon deposits etc. One of the best things about EV's is that there are fewer moving parts to service.
 
gerry s said:
While on the subject of pensions has anybody mentioned hydrogen yet?
Click to expand...
I have found the older I get the more flatulence I have.
 
Personally I think it’s all smoke and mirrors , cutting the winter fuel allowance has always been planned by labour according to reeves posts from years back … but I predict it will be re- instated in the budget and the furor then used to hide other sly tax increases .. and it’s all a big con anyway to get pension credit you need a extremely low pension forecast but the state pension is going up again next year hence pushing loads above the pension credit base line ..now you see it now you don’t ..
Time will tell but unless they re.instate it the Mrs will be getting sod all for Xmas
 
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Have we not got a thread about EV's?
Certainly the older members of my family(those of pensionable age) have no intention of going down the EV route. There is firstly the cost, added to that trying to understand how they work and how they charge them.(mainly trying to understand charging tarrifs etc) One of them is scared of getting in an EV car because of fear of them catching fire. Which I suspect her fear has also had an effect the others.
 
ecoleman said:
My cousin is the chief fire officer for Jersey. They are extremely concerned about the risks EV's pose. Not only EV's but e-bikes are also major headache for them as they are generally stored and charged indoors.
Click to expand...

I worked in insurance for a bit. The majority of our house fires (I ran stats on this) were caused by cheap petrol powered weed burners. Elderly customers like to buy them because they don't have the mobility to do hand weeding. Since they are generally quite big, most people store them under the spare bed. This is horrifying.

Second most common (a l-o-n-g way behind) was electric scooter batteries. In every single case these were wither no brand scooters off of the cheap sites or decent brands which were being charged with a knock off charger. We know this for a fact because if it were the manufacturer's charger we could claim the cost of the house fire against them so we always checked.

3 things to stop your house catching fire:
  1. Don't smoke - and don't allow anybody else to smoke anywhere near it
  2. Always buy decent batteries and chargers from a reputable company (genuinely, there's a reason they cost more)
  3. Don't put a weed burner under the spare bed.
Oh, and don't live next to a cannabis farm - there was a local incident where some entrepreneurs had stripped out all the fire breaks in the loft space in a whole row of houses to grow more drugs. They may also have patched directly into the electricity supply to bypass the meter and cut overheads. It ended predictably.

Electric cars ain't anywhere on the list.
 
JonathanRyan said:
I worked in insurance for a bit. The majority of our house fires (I ran stats on this) were caused by cheap petrol powered weed burners. Elderly customers like to buy them because they don't have the mobility to do hand weeding. Since they are generally quite big, most people store them under the spare bed. This is horrifying.

Second most common (a l-o-n-g way behind) was electric scooter batteries. In every single case these were wither no brand scooters off of the cheap sites or decent brands which were being charged with a knock off charger. We know this for a fact because if it were the manufacturer's charger we could claim the cost of the house fire against them so we always checked.

3 things to stop your house catching fire:
  1. Don't smoke - and don't allow anybody else to smoke anywhere near it
  2. Always buy decent batteries and chargers from a reputable company (genuinely, there's a reason they cost more)
  3. Don't put a weed burner under the spare bed.
Oh, and don't live next to a cannabis farm - there was a local incident where some entrepreneurs had stripped out all the fire breaks in the loft space in a whole row of houses to grow more drugs. They may also have patched directly into the electricity supply to bypass the meter and cut overheads. It ended predictably.

Electric cars ain't anywhere on the list.
Click to expand...
Sorry but I don't believe petrol weed burners under the bed (especially as most weed burners use gas cartridges) were the most common cause of house fires. Unless of course you only dealt with about 3 house fires.

I am pretty sure if they were such a common cause there would be some alerts about it.
 
munch said:
Have we not got a thread about EV's?
Certainly the older members of my family(those of pensionable age) have no intention of going down the EV route. There is firstly the cost, added to that trying to understand how they work and how they charge them.(mainly trying to understand charging tarrifs etc) One of them is scared of getting in an EV car because of fear of them catching fire. Which I suspect her fear has also had an effect the others.
Click to expand...

Unless you like going into the bonnet every weekend, they work like any other car. And to charge its easier than fuel, just plug in like you would a toaster! No getting fuels confused or having to do anything else.
 
munch said:
Sorry but I don't believe petrol weed burners under the bed (especially as most weed burners use gas cartridges) were the most common cause of house fires. Unless of course you only dealt with about 3 house fires.

I am pretty sure if they were such a common cause there would be some alerts about it.
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OK.

One thing I've learned from this thread / forum / internet is that once somebody's mind is made up, there's no point discussing any further.
 
JonathanRyan said:
OK.

One thing I've learned from this thread / forum / internet is that once somebody's mind is made up, there's no point discussing any further.
Click to expand...

Yes, my mind is made up and so is yours. That's why you're not willing to accept the concerns of somebody who's main role is risk management and instead rattle of some silly stats about weed burners.

Honestly, I don't know anyone who owns a weed burner let alone keeps one in their house or under their bed.

We also know that insurance companies have no way of claiming costs of damage from manufacturers so please stop taking crap.
 
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Hmmmm, no mention of weed burners here
www.morganclark.co.uk

UK house fire statistics | How many house fires per year?

Updated for 2024/25, the following fire statistics have been compiled to draw attention to the risks of house fires in the UK.
www.morganclark.co.uk www.morganclark.co.uk


Nor here
www.gov.uk

Detailed analysis of fires attended by fire and rescue services, England, April 2019 to March 2020

www.gov.uk www.gov.uk

Not in Devon
www.dsfire.gov.uk

Top ways to reduce your risk of having fire at home

Learn about common fire hazards and the top five ways to reduce your risk of having a fire in your home. Advice on how to reduce your chances of having a fire.
www.dsfire.gov.uk www.dsfire.gov.uk
 
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I know there’s another thread for electric cars but as I said on that , what doesn’t get mentioned is the upfront cost of buying an electric vehicle
We are retired on a fixed income, there’s no way we could afford or justify buying an electric car
Even ignoring the range issues which is a thing as I do several long trips a year for photography
Our current car a Yaris cost us £12 K new , pre registered and has many years life left in it there’s now way we could afford a current electric car
 
cambsno said:
Unless you like going into the bonnet every weekend, they work like any other car. And to charge its easier than fuel, just plug in like you would a toaster! No getting fuels confused or having to do anything else.
Click to expand...
That's not what I meant. Older people are generally more set in there ways and have less of an understanding of modern technical items. Their concerns as expressed to me in conversations is understanding electric cars. Their perception may be skewed by the fact that a couple of their kids have Tesla's (big screen in middle of dash, no keys etc) then their is all the thing of setting up the charging point and tariffs etc for them it seems like a lot of faff for nothing. That is without the outlay for an EV.
 
munch said:
That's not what I meant. Older people are generally more set in there ways and have less of an understanding of modern technical items. Their concerns as expressed to me in conversations is understanding electric cars. Their perception may be skewed by the fact that a couple of their kids have Tesla's (big screen in middle of dash, no keys etc) then their is all the thing of setting up the charging point and tariffs etc for them it seems like a lot of faff for nothing. That is without the outlay for an . EV.
Click to expand...
Thankfully none of them have ever owned a petrol weed killer though.:) Come to think of it though I don't think any of them have ever had anything petrol in the house, mind you they all have sheds/garages for those sort of things.

Imagine living in a house where the garden is so big to need a petrol weed killer but not have the space to put a shed up in it.
 
ecoleman said:
Yes, my mind is made up and so is yours. That's why you're not willing to accept the concerns of somebody who's main role is risk management and instead rattle of some silly stats about weed burners.

Honestly, I don't know anyone who owns a weed burner let alone keeps one in their house or under their bed.

We also know that insurance companies have no way of claiming costs of damage from manufacturers so please stop taking crap.
Click to expand...
The rattle of the silly stats.

Sounds like a good book title.
 
munch said:
That's not what I meant. Older people are generally more set in there ways and have less of an understanding of modern technical items. Their concerns as expressed to me in conversations is understanding electric cars. Their perception may be skewed by the fact that a couple of their kids have Tesla's (big screen in middle of dash, no keys etc) then their is all the thing of setting up the charging point and tariffs etc for them it seems like a lot of faff for nothing. That is without the outlay for an EV.
Click to expand...

I don't buy this tech argument - ok, someone aged 90 maybe, but even someone who is 70 should be reasonably tech savvy. In fact it's not different to a giant iPhone and using that. Most cars have apply or android connection and its similar to that. Maps, music works in same way. Seat adjustment is like in any other car. There is not much to setup. And if you have home charging, the majority will NOT need to use public charging unless they go on that one or two big trips a year (and even then, its just setting up an account with Tesla taking a couple of mins and you just literally plug in and unplug. Job done! Ok, other chargers need their own account and are not as quick as Tesla but it is still pretty easy to do. If you can operate Apple Music or Netflix, running an EV is no harder
 
I got a weed burner .. gas canister though kept in detached garage OOPS
 
cambsno said:
I don't buy this tech argument - ok, someone aged 90 maybe, but even someone who is 70 should be reasonably tech savvy. In fact it's not different to a giant iPhone and using that. Most cars have apply or android connection and its similar to that. Maps, music works in same way. Seat adjustment is like in any other car. There is not much to setup. And if you have home charging, the majority will NOT need to use public charging unless they go on that one or two big trips a year (and even then, its just setting up an account with Tesla taking a couple of mins and you just literally plug in and unplug. Job done! Ok, other chargers need their own account and are not as quick as Tesla but it is still pretty easy to do. If you can operate Apple Music or Netflix, running an EV is no harder
Click to expand...

I dunno I do think the pace of tech and online is quite baffling even as a recently retired network engineer i sometimes struggle with how awkward some stuff is, just mainly bad code/software. personally i am not fussed about old people and EVs the tech will roll forward and get much SMARTER over the next 5 years and the middle people 50-70 who are very smart phone savvy nowadays will be able to adopt the tech much easier. But it is exactly like you say so easy to just roll home and plug in once all setup.
 
LCPete said:
I know there’s another thread for electric cars but as I said on that , what doesn’t get mentioned is the upfront cost of buying an electric vehicle
We are retired on a fixed income, there’s no way we could afford or justify buying an electric car
Even ignoring the range issues which is a thing as I do several long trips a year for photography
Our current car a Yaris cost us £12 K new , pre registered and has many years life left in it there’s now way we could afford a current electric car
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Yes, when low running costs are being trumpeted they omit the huge difference in purchase costs which if spread over four or five years would torpedo their predicted savings.
 
took my diesel burning machine to the garage for it's MOT this morning - got talking about EV's with the receptionist - she has a Golf EV - she said what I really like about it is that I don't have to go to the petrol station anymore
 
Just got back from Ireland, where diesel is cheaper than petrol and both are more expensive than in the UK!
 
Had my RSV jab today - you have to be over 75 or pregnant to get it

another OAP "freebie"

Maybe Starmer will start charging for stuff like this and prescriptions in the future .......... so get them while you can!!
 
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Pixbarmy said:
Just got back from Ireland, where diesel is cheaper than petrol and both are more expensive than in the UK!
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£ getting really strong versus Euro - 1.19 ..........almost highest it's been in the last 5 years, (highest was 1.20 I think), ......... lets see if it exceeds the 1.19 mark in the next few weeks ........ off to Crete in a couple of weeks, (it's tough being an OAP!) ........ need to visit Tesco's and get some Euros!
 
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Clive K said:
Yes, when low running costs are being trumpeted they omit the huge difference in purchase costs which if spread over four or five years would torpedo their predicted savings.
Click to expand...

Depends on your purchasing model and what you are happy to pay. Like I have said, I could have stayed in my sportage for another year (was on pcp). Tesla was 135 a month more but am getting that back in fuel savings, even if I factor in road tax and cost of a home charger. So I do have a smaller car but didn’t really need an suv now although I like them. However my car is much faster and nicer to drive and better tech.

As with anything, everyone is different. I could buy a 4 year old focus but prefer not to which would be far cheaper.
 
cambsno said:
Depends on your purchasing model and what you are happy to pay. Like I have said, I could have stayed in my sportage for another year (was on pcp). Tesla was 135 a month more but am getting that back in fuel savings, even if I factor in road tax and cost of a home charger. So I do have a smaller car but didn’t really need an suv now although I like them. However my car is much faster and nicer to drive and better tech.

As with anything, everyone is different. I could buy a 4 year old focus but prefer not to which would be far cheaper.
Click to expand...

As I said before; it suits your circumstances. However, the chief promoter of EVs on here does not factor in the cost and depreciation into his carefully selected formulaes.

In my case I have bought used vehicles for around €10k, used them for 2 years then had to find around €2 to €3k to replace them. Most of my travelling kilometerage is work related that entails journeys of over 320km / 200 miles four times a month involving 15 to 16 visits per day. Plus fishing trips of anything up to 200km / 150 miles round trip entailing a 4x4 for the access to rivers.

As a business user I could get a basic EV for around €45k IF I scrapped a car worth €8k. That vehicle would be unable to carry much given that we have a dog cage in each car and would not be 4x4. To recharge an EV away from home means finding a supermarket or urban charging bay for however long it takes. With a diesel I have no need to refuel as often. When I need to stop for lunch I use rural picnic areas, not supermarket car parks. And I can get everything in it for a fortnight's trip to Spain, 640 miles without refuelling.

There are around 600 residents in our village and I have had 200+ clients over the last 11 years. I do not know of one EV owner. Not even a hybrid.
 
cambsno said:
I don't buy this tech argument - ok, someone aged 90 maybe, but even someone who is 70 should be reasonably tech savvy. In fact it's not different to a giant iPhone and using that. Most cars have apply or android connection and its similar to that. Maps, music works in same way. Seat adjustment is like in any other car. There is not much to setup. And if you have home charging, the majority will NOT need to use public charging unless they go on that one or two big trips a year (and even then, its just setting up an account with Tesla taking a couple of mins and you just literally plug in and unplug. Job done! Ok, other chargers need their own account and are not as quick as Tesla but it is still pretty easy to do. If you can operate Apple Music or Netflix, running an EV is no harder
Click to expand...

You obviously haven’t seen my 70 year old mother with an iPhone or iPad and my dad has a Nokia.

Why do you think that anybody aged 70 should be tech savvy?
 
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