Star Trail Attempt

Michael Little

Michael Little

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Brecon Beacon Star Trails by michael-little, on Flickr

Garden Star Trails by michael-little, on Flickr

As you can see from above i have attempted two star trails however they are not a consistent line, its as though the camera is taking an image for 30 seconds at F4 ISO500 and then pausing for around 30 seconds.

Im using the inbuilt Interval timer shooting on my D810 with the following setting i got from the internet, Interval 31 Seconds, and interval x shots is 250 x 1 = 250, can someone help explain this feature of the camera to me because i just do not get it!!!
 
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It sounds like you have log exposure noise reduction enabled (although I'm not a Nikon User). This basically take a dark frame the same length as the exposure time to remove sensor noise. So for a 30 second exposure, it takes another 30 second shot.

Anyway, I also meant to say I like the first image there. I think including other details can be too distracting.
 
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Hi James, i have long exposure noise reduction turned off and high iso noise reduction set to norm, so that shouldn't be the problem, and thanks i like how it turned out too but these were just purely trying a new type of photography for me so i wasn't aiming for "keepers"

Thanks for your comment!
 
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I used StarStax for Mac to stack the images, I have seen others with smooth trails so there must be something I'm doing wrong!

Thanks do i post there or can this thread be moved?
 
If it's not high ISO noise reduction then it must be something to do with the interval timer settings. You could try using a cable release, set the camera to continuous drive, 30seconds exposure time and then lock the cable release down for a while. If the trails come out continuous then it's the settings.
 
Yes i suspect it to be the settings, i don't really understand the menu setting that well for this option, however i never thought of that, i will give that a go tomorrow night, thanks Gary
 
Michael Little said:
Im using the inbuilt Interval timer shooting on my D810 with the following setting i got from the internet, Interval 31 Seconds, and interval x shots is 250 x 1 = 250, can someone help explain this feature of the camera to me because i just do not get it!!!
Click to expand...
How is the interval defined? Is it from the start of one shot to the start of the next, or from the *end* of one to the start of the next? If it's the latter, that would exactly explain what you're getting: take a 30-second exposure, wait 31 seconds, repeat.
 
StewartR said:
How is the interval defined? Is it from the start of one shot to the start of the next, or from the *end* of one to the start of the next? If it's the latter, that would exactly explain what you're getting: take a 30-second exposure, wait 31 seconds, repeat.
Click to expand...

Yep. Pretty sure interval is the pause time between images. Should be set to lowest time possible.
 
If your intervalometer is the same as mine you set time from pressing the button till the first exposure starts, exposure length, interval and number of shots, the interval being exposure length plus a gap for the image to save to the card. Could your camera still be saving when the next exposure should start so the shutter can't fire?
 
Michael Little said:
Brecon Beacon Star Trails by michael-little, on Flickr

Garden Star Trails by michael-little, on Flickr

As you can see from above i have attempted two star trails however they are not a consistent line, its as though the camera is taking an image for 30 seconds at F4 ISO500 and then pausing for around 30 seconds.

Im using the inbuilt Interval timer shooting on my D810 with the following setting i got from the internet, Interval 31 Seconds, and interval x shots is 250 x 1 = 250, can someone help explain this feature of the camera to me because i just do not get it!!!
Click to expand...

OldCarlos said:
I think that's normal? (or at least I've heard that before) I also think many use `stacking` programmes.

Matt @MWHCVT will be able to advise.

(might be wise to post in here; https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/photos-night-astro-photography.145/ )
Click to expand...

The issue I face in offering advice here is I know very little about Nikon camera settings, but reading the above it one of two issues, either some form of long exposure or high ISO noise reduction is still active within the camera so I'd double check this as a first simple thing and make sure it is turned off..As this will create the kind of issue you are facing as your camera will shoot a dark frame of the same exposure duration as the exposure in order to map out noise, you really don't need to do this with a stacked long exposure because the very nature of the stacking processing will reduce out noise

But I'll be honest reading the OP it sounds more likely that it setting the interval meter incorrectly I would suggest setting the interval at 1 second see if this resolves the issue, or sack off the internal camera functions and just buy a cheap trigger for £5 off Amazon..
 
Thanks for the reply, From what i have found online the interval timer starts at the moment the shutter opens, therefore 31 should work, however from what i have seen people have had to put it to 33/34 seconds to get it to work properly!,

I've love the Nikon intervelomiter but its hell of a lot of money, does anyone have any experience of a none nikon brand??

Thanks Mike
 
Michael Little said:
Thanks for the reply, From what i have found online the interval timer starts at the moment the shutter opens, therefore 31 should work, however from what i have seen people have had to put it to 33/34 seconds to get it to work properly!,

I've love the Nikon intervelometer but its hell of a lot of money, does anyone have any experience of a none nikon brand??

Thanks Mike
Click to expand...
There are many cheap copies of the Nikon MC-36A starting from about £10 on Amazon.

Edited because I got the wrong model. :rolleyes: :oops: :$

Nikon D*/D*** models also need a remote to have the 10 pin connection.
 
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Do i not need the MC-36A for thr d810? Also i know there are lots but i want to know if there are specific brands that are good quality but cheaper than nikon
 
Michael Little said:
Do i not need the MC-36A for thr d810? Also i know there are lots but i want to know if there are specific brands that are good quality but cheaper than nikon
Click to expand...
Sorry, yes it it is the MC-36A. :banghead:

I got one years ago from 7DayShop, branded as their own, and have never had any problems with it. :) Just looked, and I don't think they do them anymore. :(

I think for any copy if there are not a load of negative reviews it should be fine. It is not a complicated bit of tech to copy imho. ;)
 
Oh okay thanks, i guess im just going to have to try one out! Its just i had one for my d750 however the connector became unreliable fairly quickly! Thanks for your help ill just get one and hope for the best! :)
 
Michael Little said:
Thanks for the reply, From what i have found online the interval timer starts at the moment the shutter opens, therefore 31 should work, however from what i have seen people have had to put it to 33/34 seconds to get it to work properly!
Click to expand...
It will take you about 1 minute to test that. No need to wait for a clear night, just leave the lens cap on. Surely that's got to be easier than buying a new bit of kit?
 
I did test it and it worked however i want the intervelomiter as im used to them from my D750 and i can make exposures over 30 seconds which is max on the D810 interval timer shooting.

And thanks greenninja but i literally bit the bullet about half hour ago off ebay! Thankyou for the offer though!
 
I've found the Nikon internal intervalometer not the easiest to get to grips with. :( The remote is very easy to understand and can be set to unlimited shots, where the internal intervalometer can not. I use the internal intervalometer when I need more than 1 frame per second, which the external remote can't do. No problem for the OP, but others may not know. :)
 
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Yes i agree its not very easy! the external one i used to have was very straight forward and i think this one will work just the same!
 
Michael Little said:
Interval 31 Seconds, and interval x shots is 250 x 1 = 250, can someone help explain this feature of the camera to me because i just do not get it!!!
Click to expand...

Looks like you had everything right apart from the duration of the interval, set it to 1 second instead of 31.

With the settings you used, the camera will then take 250 shots @ 30 sec exposure, f4, ISO 500, with a 1 second interval instead of 31.

Make sure you turn off all in camera NR settings as well (y)
 
Hi Phil, i tried that first but when i pressed start it would take 1 photo and not multiple photos, however online i found that Nikons interpretation on Interval, is the start of the shutter opening, to when it needs to open again... if that makes sense? ill post the article up after where he explains a lot better than i can!
 
OK, some intervalometer testing on a D810.

I have the intervalometer to take 3 photos. I'm in manual exposure mode, manual focus, with the lens cap on to simulate dark skies. Long exposure NR is off. High ISO NR is set to 'Normal', which is the default (and what the OP used), but ISO is only 500 (also what the OP used) so I wouldn't expect that to be an issue.

Exposure time = 5s, interval time = 6 s.
5s exposure, 1s gap, 5s exposure, 1s gap, 5s exposure. As expected.

Exposure time = 10 seconds, interval time = 11 seconds.
10s exposure, 1s gap, 10s exposure, 1s gap, 10s exposure. As expected.

Exposure time = 13 seconds, interval time = 14 seconds.
13s exposure, 1s gap, 13s exposure, 1s gap, 13s exposure. As expected.

Exposure time = 15 seconds, interval time = 16 seconds.
15s exposure, 17s gap, 15s exposure. No third exposure.
This sequence of results is completely repeatable.

Exposure time = 15 seconds, interval time = 17 seconds.
15s exposure, 2s gap, 15s exposure, 2s gap, 15s exposure. As expected.

Exposure time = 20 seconds, interval time = 21 seconds.
20s exposure, 1s gap, 20s exposure, 1s gap, 20s exposure. As expected.

Exposure time = 25 seconds, interval time = 26 seconds.
25s exposure, 1s gap, 25s exposure, 1s gap, 25s exposure. As expected.

Exposure time = 30 seconds, interval time = 31 seconds.
30s exposure, 32s gap, 30s exposure. No third exposure.
This sequence of results is completely repeatable.

Exposure time = 30 seconds, interval time = 32 seconds.
30s exposure, 34s gap, 30s exposure. No third exposure.
This sequence of results is completely repeatable.

Exposure time = 30 seconds, interval time = 33 seconds.
30s exposure, 3s gap, 30s exposure, 3s gap, 30s exposure. As expected.

Well, I say this last one was "as expected". The EXIF data says the exposure time was 30s and the time interval between consecutive exposures was 33s, but the gap didn't sound like it lasted 3s. So I timed it by hand. I measured the exposure at 32s and the gap at 1s. Then I went back to the 15s exposure and timed it by hand. Guess what? It was 16s.

So then I went back and manually timed all the exposure settings from 5s upwards. Here's what I got.
Indicated exposure: 5, 6, 8, 10, 13, 15, 20, 25, 30.
Measured exposure: 5, 6, 8, 10, 13, 16, 20, 25, 32.

I think that explains my results perfectly, and it also explains the OP's problem, and it explains why the internet sources the OP mentioned recommended setting the intervalometer to 33 seconds.

It would be interesting to know whether this discrepancy between the indicated exposure and the actual exposure is specific to the D810, or whether all Nikons do it, or whether all cameras do it. It obviously arises as a consequence of needing to double the exposure times (1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32) in order to maintain exact 1-stop gaps between them, so it wouldn't surprise me if it turned out to be quite widespread.
 
Michael Little said:
Hi Phil, i tried that first but when i pressed start it would take 1 photo and not multiple photos, however online i found that Nikons interpretation on Interval, is the start of the shutter opening, to when it needs to open again... if that makes sense? ill post the article up after where he explains a lot better than i can!
Click to expand...

Hiya Mike, it definitely works with only 1 second dialed into the interval meter, its awhile since I used the function so tried it this morning on my D7200 to make sure.

This is exactly what I did, you'll know most of it but if I start from the beginning it'll be easier to explain

Set expose to what you want in manual, 30 sec, f4, ISO ect....

Set focus, turn auto focus off

Select interval timing in menu

Select start option, select 'now' press ok

Drop down to interval, enter 1 second, press ok

Next enter number of shots 250 x 1 = 250, press ok

Now this is where I think you're going wrong, don't press the shutter release, scroll back up the menu and select 'start' A box will appear on the rear screen advising 'Timer Active' after a couple of seconds the camera will start shooting @ 30 second exposures with a 1 second gap up your total of 250

Its easy to do once you've done it a couple of times. To practise set the shutter speed to say 100th, aperture & ISO appropriately, set the interval to 1 second as describe and only enter 10 x 1 as the number of shots, that way you won't be sat about wondering if you've got it right.
 
@StewartR

That all sounds very complicated to me, its a lot easier the way I did it :D

Edit I stand corrected Stewart, I've just tried it with a 30 second exposure, it doesn't work but its fine at say 1/100th :confused:

I'll have another go, see what I come up with
 
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Wow, thank you very much Stewart for your work! I didn't even think of doing a 32 second exposure to make the stop gaps correct! I think you have hit the nail on the head with your post ill try it when i finish work tonight! At least now i know i can use the inbuilt Interval timer shooting with more confidence and understanding!

I really wish Nikon just set up the interval to mean the moment from the shutter closing and the shutter opening again, it would have saved so much head scratching!

Thanks again i really appreciate the effort you put into this!(y)
 
Michael Little said:
I didn't even think of doing a 32 second exposure to make the stop gaps correct!
Click to expand...
Remember when you set the exposure to be 30 seconds, it's actually 32 seconds. So you need to set the intervalometer to 33 seconds.
 
StewartR said:
It would be interesting to know whether this discrepancy between the indicated exposure and the actual exposure is specific to the D810, or whether all Nikons do it, or whether all cameras do it. It obviously arises as a consequence of needing to double the exposure times (1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32) in order to maintain exact 1-stop gaps between them, so it wouldn't surprise me if it turned out to be quite widespread.
Click to expand...

Yep, same here with the D7200, 30second exposure is actually 32 and I now understand that you have to dial both the exposure and interval gap into interval reading to get continuous shots.

I had another go but what was throwing me is anything under a 1 second exposure works with a 1 second interval as I explained above. Its exposure time over 1 second needs the exact exposure time plus 1 second

It was certainly a little confusing but a lot clear now, thanks Stewart (y)
 
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