SRB Photographic service and poor attitude to faulty item

alfbranch

alfbranch

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My daughter bought me some extension tubes from SRG Photographic as a Christmas present and they worked great up until recently. The tubes started to play up recently losing connection between the camera and lens which on my mirrorless camera led to a blank viewfinder.

I checked the contacts were cleana nd tried the on another camera same fault occurred so I contacted my daughter for the order info and they were bought last November.

I contacted the retailer SRB Photographic whith the order details and decsription of the fault and my checks.

The first thing I was told was "You have had them over a month in fact its nearly a year there is nothing we can do"

I asked are you kidding?

Answer what do you expect us to do?

repair or replace them

No questions were asked about the condition and treatment of the item just the stateent "You may have dropped them or anything there is nothing we can do"
I could have accepted some questions like have you dropped the item or caused it any damage in any way and could you send us photos of it now etc.

This entered into a circular conversation and then I was told I need to speak to my MD eventually I spoke to the MD to get exactly the same statements.

What to do next?
 
The 'one month to return' is your right to reject the goods if they are not fit for purpose. It is fixed at 30 days under the Consumer Rights Act (for purchases after 1 October 2015) and undefined in the Sales of Goods Act (for purchases prior to that date), but usually taken to be 3-4 weeks. Your purchase will be covered by SoGA.

Beyond the initial 30 days right to reject, you have additional protection if an item develops for a fault. For the first 6 months, the onus is on the seller to prove the fault was not due to a defect, after 6 months the onus is on the consumer to prove it (usually requiring an engineers report), and this right lasts until 6 years after purchase (although by 6 years many good will be considered to have had fair use so may not be considered inherently defective if they stop working).

I'd also check your order confirmation etc to see if any warranty was offered at point of sale.

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/problem/what-do-i-do-if-i-have-a-faulty-product
 
I will be getting my daughter to send them a letter about this.

This is what someone on another said about them.

When I contacted them about tubes I was told NO warranty! Only a thirty day return, strange I thought all goods had some form of warranty?
 
alfbranch said:
I will be getting my daughter to send them a letter about this.

This is what someone on another said about them.

When I contacted them about tubes I was told NO warranty! Only a thirty day return, strange I thought all goods had some form of warranty?
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They do, but after the first 6 months it's a lot harder to force the vendor to do anything as the onus is now on the consumer to prove fault in the product.
 
just send them a strongly worded letter, and threaten them with court.
 
Or buy some new ones, and ahem return them as you have changed your mind within a month, nice new set of tubes :)
 
You don't actually state which brand of tubes they are ,if canon ,Nikon,or kenko then it's worth pursuing ,if they are just a cheapo Chinese unbranded set then it's not worth chasing ,just buy new ones .

Also I cannot see a complete set of tubes losing connectivity have you tried separating them and trying each section in turn ,and /or cleaning each sections contacts ,there is nothing technical about the way they work it's just brass contacts joined through the middle by brass strips ,so it should be easy to see if a contact is broken or corroded .
 
Do you actually have any rights if they were a gift? Isn't it just the original purchaser that is covered by consumer rights? Not really something a good retailer should hide behind.
Matt
 
hmmm as suspected a cheap chinese knock off brand ,you would be able to buy the same type/make/model on e/bay for around £20 and thats without even looking ,i have a similar set for a canon mount and paid around £18 ,but as i said earlier theres just not a lot can go wrong with these ,just in fact took a look at mine ,the contact pins are just brass rods which are fitted with pins ,i would advise cleaning with a de-greasing agent and applying gentle pressure on any protruding pins in case one has got jammed by a bit of grit ,the fixed contacts at the other end again just need de-greasing (methylated spirits is one of the best easily acquired solutions ) just apply with a ear bud .then wipe clean .

you also never answered my earlier question have you tried each segment in turn ,they can't all be faulty
 
Llamaman said:
They do, but after the first 6 months it's a lot harder to force the vendor to do anything as the onus is now on the consumer to prove fault in the product.
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This would only be the case where the goods are over a year old. Any goods sold in the UK must have a minimum12 months guarantee.
 
ecoleman said:
This would only be the case where the goods are over a year old. Any goods sold in the UK must have a minimum12 months guarantee.
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No, it's six months - as per the links already provided (and repeated in the post between yours and my reply).
 
the black fox said:
You don't actually state which brand of tubes they are ,if canon ,Nikon,or kenko then it's worth pursuing ,if they are just a cheapo Chinese unbranded set then it's not worth chasing ,just buy new ones .

Also I cannot see a complete set of tubes losing connectivity have you tried separating them and trying each section in turn ,and /or cleaning each sections contacts ,there is nothing technical about the way they work it's just brass contacts joined through the middle by brass strips ,so it should be easy to see if a contact is broken or corroded .
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Frankly it was hard a set of 3 m4/3 auto tubes from a shop at the time

I have worked out which one it is and but as with all intermittant faults it can require a litle luck.

Llamaman said:
They do, but after the first 6 months it's a lot harder to force the vendor to do anything as the onus is now on the consumer to prove fault in the product.
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They were not interested as it was over a month they were not quoting this to me. They di not ask how they were used or if the had been damaged I just got we can do nothing.
 
Llamaman said:
No, it's six months - as per the links already provided (and repeated in the post between yours and my reply).
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You are missing my point. This only applies where you are claiming under the sale of goods act (up to six years).
The OPs goods are less than a year old and should fall into its normal guarantee.

As long as the OP can show that there is no physical damage to the goods that could have caused the failure, he is entitled to a repair or replacement. It doesn't matter if the fault was inherent or not.
 
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ecoleman said:
You are missing my point. This only applies where you are claiming under the sale of goods act (up to six years).
The OPs goods are less than a year old and should fall into its normal guarantee.

As long as the OP can show that there is no physical damage to the goods that could have caused the failure, he is entitled to a repair or replacement. It doesn't matter if the fault was inherent or not.
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Most companies in the UK say their goods are covered by the sale of goods act 1979 (not the one that came into force on 1 october 2015) http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/54
So the goods are just under a year old, and Llamaman is correct, as it's over 6 months the onus is on the purchaser to prove that the item was faulty on delivery. This would be evidence such as an engineers report or evidence that several other people have failures in the same time scale. It's not hard, there's plenty of detailed information on this, turning legal speak into understandable english, especially from Which.

From the sellers point of view, they will have made perhaps as much as 25% markup, but more likely about 10-15%, which doesn't cover postage. The item is a year old, a cheap item,which in these disposable days would possibly be seen as a 'oh well it's failed, but they are cheap, I'll buy another' type item. The seller doesn't know that the client hasn't damaged them and is trying it on.

Then there's the daughter. How's she feeling, a little guilt that the gift she bought her father is now broken? The father now wants her to send a letter complaining for what's an intermittent fault on one of the three segments.


My personal conclusion would be to forget chasing the seller, check the contacts, are they dirty, are they all at the same level and the wear on the mount in case movement breaks the connection. If it's intermittent it could be something simple. If not, buy another set.
 
Byker28i said:
Most companies in the UK say their goods are covered by the sale of goods act 1979 (not the one that came into force on 1 october 2015) http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/54
So the goods are just under a year old, and Llamaman is correct, as it's over 6 months the onus is on the purchaser to prove that the item was faulty on delivery. This would be evidence such as an engineers report or evidence that several other people have failures in the same time scale. It's not hard, there's plenty of detailed information on this, turning legal speak into understandable english, especially from Which.

From the sellers point of view, they will have made perhaps as much as 25% markup, but more likely about 10-15%, which doesn't cover postage. The item is a year old, a cheap item,which in these disposable days would possibly be seen as a 'oh well it's failed, but they are cheap, I'll buy another' type item. The seller doesn't know that the client hasn't damaged them and is trying it on.

Then there's the daughter. How's she feeling, a little guilt that the gift she bought her father is now broken? The father now wants her to send a letter complaining for what's an intermittent fault on one of the three segments.


My personal conclusion would be to forget chasing the seller, check the contacts, are they dirty, are they all at the same level and the wear on the mount in case movement breaks the connection. If it's intermittent it could be something simple. If not, buy another set.
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Sorry you are wrong. You have a minimum 12 month guarantee. I opulent care what profit the retailer made.

This retailer makes no mention of the sale of goods act or the consumer contracts regulations in their terms. Their terms go against everything the law says. The should be reported to trading standards regardless.
 
ecoleman said:
This does not apply to the UK because our laws go above and beyond 2 years. But, to claim outside of the normal guarantee period you have to prove inherent fault.
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Indeed..point being is that a min 2 years us applicable under EU law. But the guys are correct in as much as stating that after 6 months the onus is on the purchaser to prove the fault existed when the item was purchased.
 
NeilA1975 said:
Indeed..point being is that a min 2 years us applicable under EU law. But the guys are correct in as much as stating that after 6 months the onus is on the purchaser to prove the fault existed when the item was purchased.
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You only have to prove the fault existed when the item was purchased, if you are claiming outside of the standard guarantee and up to 6 years. It also has to be reasonable to expect this item to last 6 years which I doubt would be the case for this item.

The OP is still within the standard minimum guarantee period.he does not have to prove anything other than show he has not caused the damage or fault.
 
ecoleman said:
You only have to prove the fault existed when the item was purchased, if you are claiming outside of the standard guarantee and up to 6 years. It also has to be reasonable to expect this item to last 6 years which I doubt would be the case for this item.

The OP is still within the standard minimum guarantee period.he does not have to prove anything other than show he has not caused the damage or fault.
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I agree but after 6 months things can get very tricky.
 
It seems I stand corrected and is a nice loop hole for retailers to get out of their responsibilities.

1.4A manufacturer’s product warrantyThere is no obligation on manufacturers to offer warranties (or guarantees). Any rights of redress against the manufacturer, given to the consumer under a product warranty, are in addition to their statutory rights against the retailer. This means that the retailer (not the manufacturer) should be their first port of call when a product turns out to be faulty. It would be misleading for a retailer to tell a consumer that they can do nothing simply because there is a valid warranty with the manufacturer; the consumer has statutory rights against the retailer. Similarly, the fact that a warranty has expired does not mean that the consumer’s statutory rights have been extinguished. The SGA 1979 imposes strict liability on the seller; therefore the seller is legally required to assist the consumer if there is a defect with the product.
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Many people are mistaken in thinking that the purpose of Directive 1999/44/EC, ‘On certain aspects of the sale of consumer goods and associated guarantees’, is to give consumers a minimum two years guarantee for all goods. In fact, this EU Directive, implemented in the UK by the Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002, has added little to already existing UK consumer protection law under the SGA 1979.Under this Directive, all Member States have to ensure that “a retailer could be held liable for all 'non-conformities' (i.e. defects) which manifest in the good within two years from delivery”. However, this requirement is not a two-year legal guarantee (although, rather confusingly, the Directive’s title describes it as such); goods are not legally required to last for two years. It simply provides that consumer goods must conform to the sales contract at the time of delivery. If a consumer can show that the goods did not do so, they will be entitled to repair or replacement of the goods free of charge. If this would be disproportionate or unreasonable to expect from the retailer, the consumer will be entitled to a reduction in price or a refund. These consumer rights are available for up to two years following purchase. If the defect becomes apparent within the first six months of purchase, it will be presumed to have existed at the time of delivery, otherwise this will be for the consumer to prove.However, as mentioned above, the Directive adds little to UK consumer protection law. The SGA 1979 already provides the same legal rights to consumers to return faulty goods but for a period of up to six years after purchase - a much longer period therefore than provided for by the EU Directive. As a result, consumers should still rely on the SGA 1979 when returning faulty goods.
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So basically you only have a six month guarantee, unless you can prove inherent fault, which in many cases could be impossible or be costly.

So much for consumer rights, hey?
 
regardless of all the rights waffle i would go down the route of a clean up with methyalated spirits which will probably do the job ,THERE ARE NO ELECTRONICS fitted in these its just mechanical connections and unless they have been damaged theres nothing barring dirt/grease/grit that can stop them working .its not even a hard job cost about £1 a bottle and take 10 minutes
 
ecoleman said:
It seems I stand corrected and is a nice loop hole for retailers to get out of their responsibilities.





So basically you only have a six month guarantee, unless you can prove inherent fault, which in many cases could be impossible or be costly.

So much for consumer rights, hey?
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In some cases yes, in others no.
For example I had a Samsung plasma that developed a fault after about a year.
The engineer didn't even have to inspect the set as the type of fault was obvious just from switching the unit on.
Samsung replaced the set with an updated version. No questions, no quibble, they just did it.
 
ecoleman said:
You are missing my point. This only applies where you are claiming under the sale of goods act (up to six years).
The OPs goods are less than a year old and should fall into its normal guarantee.

As long as the OP can show that there is no physical damage to the goods that could have caused the failure, he is entitled to a repair or replacement. It doesn't matter if the fault was inherent or not.
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I'm not missing the point, I just, with respect, disagree with everything you've written as it's factually wrong.
There is no legislation requiring a 'normal' 12-month warranty. SOGA works as I, and others, have described - there is no separate legislation that increases the warranty period to 12 months.
Many retailers/manufacturers have traditionally offered a 12-month warranty, but this is a commercial decision by them and is only enforceable under tort, not statute.
The OP's retailer apparently does not offer such a warranty, so the law is his recourse. Unfortunately, as the goods are over 6 months old, the amount of effort required to force a repair/replacement doesn't appear to be commensurate with the value of the goods.
 
It really is very simple.

The law is there for everyone, automatically, and its provisions can only be improved on, not reduced.

A manufacturer may, or may not, decide to offer a guarantee: it's up to them, they don't have to. A guarantee can only improve on what the law offers, it cannot take away any rights under the law.

If it suits, a guarantee can be ignored and you can simply assert your rights under the law.
 
ecoleman said:
It seems I stand corrected and is a nice loop hole for retailers to get out of their responsibilities.

So basically you only have a six month guarantee, unless you can prove inherent fault, which in many cases could be impossible or be costly.

So much for consumer rights, hey?
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I think you were not wrong, just getting mixed up with what the majority of manufacturers offer and what the law states.

Most manufacturers will offer minimum of a 12 month warranty - and indeed had the tubes been from one of the major manufacturers there would have been no issue arranging a manufacturer repair. I expect any redress from the manufacturer in this case, especially considering the price the manufacturer sell them at, would be unlikely.
 
the black fox said:
regardless of all the rights waffle i would go down the route of a clean up with methyalated spirits which will probably do the job ,THERE ARE NO ELECTRONICS fitted in these its just mechanical connections and unless they have been damaged theres nothing barring dirt/grease/grit that can stop them working .its not even a hard job cost about £1 a bottle and take 10 minutes
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This is, IMO, the best suggestion.

The shop were not great on customer service, but well within their rights as a retailer.
 
the black fox said:
regardless of all the rights waffle i would go down the route of a clean up with methyalated spirits which will probably do the job ,THERE ARE NO ELECTRONICS fitted in these its just mechanical connections and unless they have been damaged theres nothing barring dirt/grease/grit that can stop them working .its not even a hard job cost about £1 a bottle and take 10 minutes
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Having tried pretty much that before I bothered rining anyone just to avoid the emerrassment if nothing else or the wasted time all round and also the time the kit was not available for no reason I can confirm that is not the fault at all. It could of course have been a failed soldered joint also but no likely I would say.

There is something else that would stop them working some of the time depending on what angle they were used at and that is what is wrong with one of them I have since phoning worked out when I showed my son what an extension tubes was as I found one of the mounts to be loose.

They like some I have met had a screw loose but due to thier construction not just loose the female thread is damaged and the mount was coming away from the body of the tube I can repair this myself and probably will as I cannot see me getting far with SRB.
 
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Llamaman said:
I'm not missing the point, I just, with respect, disagree with everything you've written as it's factually wrong.
There is no legislation requiring a 'normal' 12-month warranty. SOGA works as I, and others, have described - there is no separate legislation that increases the warranty period to 12 months.
Many retailers/manufacturers have traditionally offered a 12-month warranty, but this is a commercial decision by them and is only enforceable under tort, not statute.
The OP's retailer apparently does not offer such a warranty, so the law is his recourse. Unfortunately, as the goods are over 6 months old, the amount of effort required to force a repair/replacement doesn't appear to be commensurate with the value of the goods.
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Yep got that. Did you read the rest of the thread before commenting again?
 
Touch of extra strong superglue should do the trick then
 
ecoleman said:
No standard guarantee and dodgy terms and conditions.
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The guarantee is standard - not many places offer a vendor warranty anymore (John Lewis being the main exception).
Amazon and WEX, for example, both apply SOGA and nothing extra.
With margins and competition as they are, few retailers can afford to provide additional warranty coverage for free.
 
Llamaman said:
The guarantee is standard - not many places offer a vendor warranty anymore (John Lewis being the main exception).
Amazon and WEX, for example, both apply SOGA and nothing extra.
With margins and competition as they are, few retailers can afford to provide additional warranty coverage for free.
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I'm sure if I reported a fault to Amazon or Wex within the year, I would have no problems getting a repair or replacement.

It's not about margin on a single sale. It's about customer service and repeat business.

Anyway here are WEXs terms

Faulty goods: You will always have the option of an exchange or refund if the fault occurs within 30 days of delivery. If there is a fault with your product within six months of delivery but after the first 30 days, we will offer a repair in the first instance. As an exception you may be offered an exchange or full / partial refund. After six months but within 12 months we will offer a repair only. In all cases we reserve the right to inspect the product and verify the fault and, if no fault is found, return the product to you. In these circumstances, no refund will be processed until the returned goods have been received by us and an appraisal made as to any fault. This promise does not cover faults caused by accident, neglect, misuse or normal wear and tear.
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I must have misread WEXs terms - I missed them offering a repair during 6-12months. So slightly better than the minimum.
 
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